Pheena

How old are you? 14 octber 13 now seriously...this is nothing but hormonal changes in your body. Your wanting to get rid of something that has nothing to do with Kaam, but all to do with your natural changes in your body. Your resistance to such change will only surpress it and possibly make it worse. Your attraction to the opposite sex is NATURAL!!!!!!!! Don't deny what is given to you by Nature. I think we as a society has place such stigmas on Sex that any thought of the opposite sex is considered poison. What are your thoughts? Holding a Girls hand, Kissing her? having sex?? The world is not going to end if you have these thoughts, nor do you become impure if you have these thoughts. You are 13 for crying out loud!!. These thoughts manifest without your consent and they will leave without your consent as well. You becoming aware of them is great, but don't push them into a closet or deny them their natural path. This phase will pass and you will only understand yourself better. What you need to do is channel this energy elsewhere. Get into sports, learn to play an instrument, start doing Seva around the house, Gurudwara or with an organization. When I say Get into these things I mean involve yourself fully into such activities. Whatever you do don't associate anger or hatred with these thoughts. Another quick recipe is a good cold shower.

How old are you?

couldn't have said it better.

What!!! kind of reply is that. Everyone knows the answer is suppose to be Yes. key gal karda yaar tu, aivay becharay nu soach vich paa thitta.

You said you'll marry someone who you find attractive. Does that mean you won't marry a person who is unattractive to you? So am i right in assuming that you are discriminating too? There is duality in your mind aswell? How would you get married...Through parents/elders or would you find a person yourself? If your parents find a match for you (they find the person attractive and having sikh values) but you dont find her/him attractive, would you say NO to the rishta?? Would you tell them the true reasons for saying NO?? haha Of course there is Duality in my mind, I am no Saint. I didn't claim to be above the mind, the mind influences me towards many things, but as always it is my focus to always contemplate and be aware of this Duality in my Mind. So I simply used the word attraction and I didn't imply Physical alone, but i guess since your original question was about physical attractions you assumed that I was implying that. That is only half of what I implied. I implied both physical and mental attractions and there isn't a set percentage required for either. Just because someone might take looks into consideration, does not necessarily mean that is the sole thing that they are looking for. It is no different than the to take into consideration one Financial position. Would you consider them to be materialistic or simply assuring that their partner is able to provide for them? Everyone knows that the Physical youth/beauty does not last, but i think its also important that just because at the time of marriage one person is mental compatible that they will remain so the entire length of marriage. Neither are granted. So is there a criteria of who is attractive and who isn't? Just because I don't find someone to be physically attractive that doesn't mean no one else will. This is my minds perception of that someone, not a condemnation. I might find someone very attractive who others might consider to be ugly. I'm trying to focus on subjectivity...'beauty is in the eye of the beholder...' that what i find beautiful is beautiful to me. My subjective mind is not the Final judge on what is and isn't beautiful. What I find Ugly today, might become beautiful to the Mind tomorrow. IF i were to face such a situation, and I didn't find her attractive and I'm assuming you are speaking physically, then I'd say something is wrong with my eyes, not with her looks and besides who am I tell anyone that they are not good looking. But i don't think my mind is that shallow, there is much to a woman than just her looks. There are things that are important to me personally when I take a look at where my life is and where it is heading that far outrank physical appearance. What do you look for in a woman who you are going to marry if you aren't already?

I think its important to take into note that our mind discriminates based on its natural/karmic development and beauty of an individual is always a subjective matter. I might consider someone to be very beautiful, but another might not. Does that mean that the other person is wrong or I am right? For Example, just as we are inclined to be attracted to one color more than others, one shape, size more than others etc, similarly our mind might find the features of someone attractive and others not so much. Do you have a Favorite color? Do you have a Favorite Car, Food item? Do you eat everything you are given or do you prefer a single item more than others? If you do like one daal or sabji or food item over another then you are using the Mind to prefer one taste over another. Just as the mind is attracted to one face over another. So if you can say that we should see everyone equally regardless of what others look like and enforce this with Spiritual Giaan then you have to equally use this Giaan towards everything else. Then all colors are beautiful, all food tastes good, all faces, shapes and sizes are beautiful. Now certainly this can be taken to the extreme of physical attachments of wanting a supermodel wife/husband. These are obvious issues of the shallow mind, but let us not ignore our natural tendencies to be attracted and to pursue that which attracts us. Until and unless you go do not go beyond the mind and its dualities, we will continue to discriminate based on the preference of mind's development. Its not about what issues (looks or colors or food) are small and what are bigger concerns. The point is that we use our mind to discriminate, to like and dislike, this duality itself is the mind. To get to the root of the issue you have to first deal with the duality of the mind. When there are 2, there will always be a conflict. Personally, I want to marry someone who I find attractive and who find me attractive. Being attractive to someone is not bad nor is trying to find someone who you are attractive to.

If someone is telling you that such and such car is great, its the best car there is, but they dont have one themselves, would you or would you not find it absurd? Unless of course that someone is an expert in the field of Cars? but then again, how would anyone come to find out who is an expert and who isn't without actually listening to the thoughts and ideas of that 'someone'.

http://www.sikhsangat.com/content/GURBANI-...dmurti-Guruma-/

My veer, well I think there are Major differences in your Knowledge and her Knowledge. If you care to understand what she is about then have a listen to her Jaap Sahib Katha, she answers this exact question of yours and if you still don't agree, then that is totally fine, no one is forcing you to do so. No one is telling you to not to listen to the Guru Sahib himself, or much less implying that you 'must' listen to her. People jump to conclusion without knowing what someone is about. To avoid this they need to research that person and for this reason to avoid misunderstanding I'm simply suggesting that they need to listen to what she has to say. Then they are more than welcome to say, well I don't agree with this. Which fine as not everyone will agree with what she has to say and besides that is not the point. It is to simply avoid everyone running all over their Jumping to Conclusion Mat on the obvious blatant statements.

I agree with you veer that there is only ONE True Guru, but this True Guru is Anaami. I said what I said, because you had used the words Guru Nanak Dev as being the Sole Guru. Now I simply could've misunderstood you (semantics), but i was getting the impression that you were implying that the body that was born in 1469 to be the Sole instance of Avtaaran of the Nameless Divinity. That there existed no such instances before or nor will any after? I think we are just losing ourselves in semantics!?!? The only True Guru is Guru Nanak Sahib, which is a wonderful statement, but by confine this 'Sada Sada' , 'Sargun/Nirgun' True Guru to the umbrella of Sikhi, it would then go against the teaching of Jaap Sahib, which says, True Guru is Adharmang? It was with this viewpoint that I wrote my original reply. See I'm all with you that you Trust in the way of the Guru is 100% and is solid. But why is there a need to say Superior? Does saying that my religion is Superior makes it more Valid to others? Does it not seem create a superiority complex? With this viewpoint how do you look at your Muslim, Hindu, Christian Brothers and not feel that whatever way they are given by the Great Guru lacks? If stating that your way is the superior, then is it truly 'your' way or was this Path blessed upon you? If it is blessing then what is the need to turn this blessing into a Duality of Superiority/Inferiority? Have you just not condemned Non-Believer/Follower of Sikhi to be Inferior than you? If Sikhi is the Leader/Superior in this matter of reaching the True Guru have you not indirectly condemned 'others' to being Lost, will never reach salvation, is that not in likeness of hell?

I was going to write a long reply to your points, but after reading this "So your Guru maa has no courage to speak that as it is politics she will not disrespect her hindu followers." I can tell you too have no idea what she is about nor have you listened to her enough, if any at all. Please have a listen to her Katha's on the Japji Sahib, Rehraas Sahib and Jaap Sahib and then create your conclusion. You say a Sikh is a Learner, then learn to listen to what others are about before you jump to conclusion about them.

Relevant saakhi, but it doesn't support your argument rather it creates a superiority complex within the mind that doesn't help anyone but those who are already biased towards their particular way of thinking. Here is another way to look at your Story. A Singh went to a Daaba to eat some roti, after eating the roti, he got up to pay the owner where he was cooking in the tandoor. When Singh ji pulled money out of his pocket, some of it fell into the tandoor. He asked the owner to get his money out, but he refused. So Singh ji, got down into the tandoor after it had cooled a bit but was still hot. Going in he goes....Raam, Raam, Allah, Allah as it was very hot inside. After he got out the owner with a confused look on his face asked the Singh why would he say Raam or Allah when you are a Sikh. Singh ji replied, Lai...main ainay shota kum vaastay aavtha Waheguru Tandoor they vich kio lai kay ava? Raam Vuddha ja Waheguru?

That verse does not mention a disgusting looking woman called KAALEE. It says beautiful. Why are you so quick to jump to Hindu Mat conclusions. If you read all of Sri Dasam Granth you will see the true meaning. Perhaps you need to read again what the words are saying. Nor is that woman Disgusting, Nor am i jumping to conclusions. Please show me another reference which speaks of "The rosary of heads glorified his neck, seeing which the god Shiva feels abashed." and is not speaking of the Great Kali Mata. I personally have no idea what soever in regards to what exactly is the Shabad trying to say, but i can say with more than enough certainty that the Shabad is speak in reference to Kali Mata.

waheguru jeeo thanks for sayin that .. but do u think its bad for stupids like me who otherwise will not do it at all.. this was the link by the way that i was lookin for http://www.sikhroots.com/audio/index.php?q...li%20%28Long%29 ..the other one given by the bhai saheb above carpe diem is a fast forward version of the clip that i was looking for kirpa sangatay waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fataih jee I certainly don't think you are stupid. Yes Maryada is important, but is it at the expense of patience, love and understanding in reading the banis? Then again, this your Saadhna my veer, I'm just passing by who's got much work to do on his own.

why do you need a fast nitname?? Are you in a rush to get it done because you have more important things to do?

I think you've misunderstood. The statement is not saying that it is necessary to get married and have physical relations. But if you read the words again, it is saying that all of the Rishis, Munis, Avatars and Prophets came from Sex...that they didn't just appear out of thin air. Their bodies came to be out of the physical union of 2 individuals just as yours did. "All those who condemn sex are condemning God. All prophets, avatars- divine incarnation, rishi, seers all were born out of sex."

I've heard there are 6 things are out of your hands, the rest you(the ego) are responsible for and create through your Karms. Birth/Death Sanjoag/Vijoag Maan/Apmaan What the veer above, Sher-e-moreau says is a very deep outlook, but such an outlook cannot be a thought/view of the mind alone rather it has to be in your every single actions. The advice by veer ji is fully understood when you've Surrendered yourself to the Guru. Meaning your ego no longer rule your actions, rather it is will of the Guru. We often get in our own way by swimming against the current, let us learn how to float.

According to Gurbani there is only One Satguru (True Guru) and that is Guru Nanak Sahib. I Agree with your statement 100%, but i don't think you intended to say what i interpeted, do correctly me if i am wrong. Christian says, Jesus is the only Son of God. Muslims say only believers in Mohammed will to heaven. Now we have also claimed the monopoly. You are entitled to your statement, but i believe the reason and the depth of the words Subh tay vudha Satgur Nanak, Jin kal raakhi mayree is lost in the loosly translated words as you've done above. If you've used another refrence from Gurbani then please let me know and we can discuss that as well. This is the only one I know that says it directly. Firstly using your statement. A child who loves thier loving mother will think her mother is the best mother in the world and far as she is concerned she is the only mother. But as she will grow up, she will realize there are other mothers in this world who love thier children as much as hers. There is a hidden Bhaavna in those words....the Deciples of any master consider their master to be their one and only protector because that much surrender is needed from a Deciple inorder to fully devote themselves to their Guru. It is natural for them to consider their Guru to be their sole Guradian, just as it is yours to consider Guru Nanak as to be the Greatest and only SatGuru. But do you truely believe that is what Gurbani is telling you that only Guru Nanak Dev ji who was born in Nankana Sahib to be the only True Guru and there existed none before him nor there exist any today? Secondly, The word that is used is SatguR, not SatgurU. That one letter changes the meaning, Satgur speaks of the Universal Consciousness. In this case that Consciousness is called Nanak which translates to Na-Aank (Without-Ego) as im sure you already know. The word SatgurU speaks of that which embodies that Consciousness. Considering the entire Shabad, it is speaking of God and as you know there is nothing bigger than God. I've known people use Nanak synonomously with God , So I do fully agree with your statement if you speak it in this sense.

:awesome Your guru is very proud of you!

You know honestly I can tell you have no idea what she is about or have much of a clue what her intentions are and nor have you truly heard her speak. But you are free to and are more than welcome to place her in your money making, fake, brahmanwaad spreading, having no right to speak on Sikhi, who have nothing better to do but go hunting for Chelas, making Deras, so they can get some High from praise and money basket. That is your God given freedom of thought and opinion. God bless my veer ji, may He bless us both with greater understanding and wisdom.

so its ok to bad mouth someone who isn't here to defend herself? You may call that learning, i certainly think we can do better. Perhaps you need to re-define your ways of learning and what exactly are you wanting to learn/tolerate in this discussion. There are ways to discuss an individuals comment constructively by looking at all sides of who was involved, where and most importantly trying to understand where the Questioner and the Answerer were coming from, their intentions. Or we can just start speaking as if we know her and because she is a non-sikh who speaks on the Gurus/Sikhi she is automatically to be deemed a fraud, fake, money making machine. I wonder which ways will lead you to greater learning. You want to honestly discuss what was said, then lets discuss it. Firstly so tell me what made her comment so cunning, and just so I don't misunderstand your intentions, what exactly do you mean by cunning? Is she trying to misguide you/the person asking the question by being clever? You said "but why do Sikhs attend her discourses and ask these questions." Why not? Is there a rule or a law which prohibits Sikhs from asking questions or attending her Sangat? The question was asked about Charan. First of all i don't think anyone on here can give you the complete response to why the question was answered in the manner it was. If you want to know then you have to ask her to further clarify her answer. I or anyone else can only take our best guesses as to what the intentions might have been. So what do you want to discuss? The history of why didn't the Guru give Guruship or the Answer to the Question of Charan. Personally the Answer has nothing to do with the History that there were more to add to the Guru Granth sahib, but more to do with the Question being asked about Charan. So I think we can both agree that without the Guru (enligtented one) one cannot attain liberation. In my view the Questioner knew exactly what he was trying to ask....he asked about Charan in the literal sense of feet when he asked. When feet are referenced by the Guru Granth Sahib , that you become the dust of the Guru's Feet? Doesn't the term then become metaphysical as there is no direct correlation to physical feet of the Shabad Guru? or is there? What, where are the Charan of the Shabad Guru? Are they in Pangat/Sangat? Are they in your heart? Your bhaavna? Your devotion? Your love? Your mind? Everyone's feet become the feet of the Guru? All of the above perhaps? I have 'heard' of 'Stories' of Sikhs who received Darshan of one of the 10 Gurus and they did Charan Mastak...would you consider that to be the reference of Charan of the Guru? I think we tend to forget that there were 10 Gurus who were Physically alive, breathing, walking in a body. Even she will tell you that the Guru is not the physical body, as the Guru is the Chaytna, Guru is Shabad, the finger which points you in the right direction, Guru is the Message. But to just ignore the body which is used to express, manifest, project this Chaytna, this Shabad would be also be incorrect. Sure it is the diamond inside the box which is of value, but the box that hold the diamond also attains some value. You don't discard the box, as it hold the diamond. The physical body too becomes a doorway, a medium to both express the Truth and a means to relate and connect to the truth. But the body will perish, the message, the Shabad lives on. So then What are the Charan of the Guru? What are the Charan of the Shabad Guru? Are they no longer, are they only to be referenced/related to the Physical Gurus when their bodies were present? Or are these references speaking of a Universal Truth that the Guru being not limited to the 11 Gurus , instead that the Guru is any enlightened individual anywhere in the world, embodying the Truth. Perhaps the word Guru in the Guru Granth Sahib speaks of a connection that embodies the Truth, a universal reference and so the reference to Charan also become Universal to those who are seeking liberation...and inevitably an enlightened Master to liberate them? The last quote quote...i have no idea what is meant by the reference...i guess it was you had to be there type of moments. it can be taken a few ways....one of them being..Brahmgiani(God's) key gat Brahmgiani(Enlightened individual) janay. This is just my take on it, nothing more. I'd love to hear what you have to say about the answer in reference to the question...as you say lets learn something together. :umm:

quDu sBu ikCu mYno sauipAw jw qyrw bMdw ] thudhh sabh kishh maino soupiaa jaa thaeraa ba(n)dhaa || You entrusted everything to me, when I became Your slave. thanks for the correction :umm:

Why does the mind not yawn when we watch tv or a movie? Why does the mind not yawn when we are chatting with friend? Why does the mind not yawn when there is an urgent worldly matter that we have to deal with? There is a conflict of interest by the Mind, you pull it towards the Shabad Guru, but it pulls you back. What do you do to such a bully? Such a so called friend who pulls you away from something that is good for you? Either you befriend them or Ignore them. Obviously you can't just remove your mind, but you can ignore it. Don't become a slave to the Mind by obliging to its request. What do you do to someone who you don't want to listen to? You cannot win in a direct conflict or a fight with the mind, you have to side step it by learning to ignore the thoughts and the yawning of the mind. When it happens don't stop and become frustrated, that is exactly what the mind wants...the more you give it recoganition, the more it will pull you from your task. Pray before you begin your padth...seek help from the guru to give you patience and strength to continue your reading and understanding of the Shabad Guru. Try to seperate yourself from teh Yawning...know that your Yawning is just the manipulation of the Mind, nothing more because you've already had enough sleep and you are not tired. Let the mind know that now it is my time not your. Take few deep breaths, put on some incense, go for a walk before hand so your lungs and muscles expand and your blood is flowing. That way you have given no excuse to the mind for any tiredness.