Jeevan

Well said Sher Panjab. While Sikhs have stupidly argued amongs ourselves our religion has sustained major attack from Islam, Christianity, Hinduism. I think a time has come for a SPGC equivalent based in the West where the education system is better, free from the interference of a Hindu government and more relevant to Sikhs who live away from the Punjab. Dr. Ambedkar warned us many years ago how Hindu influences was destroying Sikhism from within. With issues like caste Sikhs don't need enemies we are the enemies. Jeevan

WJKK WJKF The Sikh may have some problems with his career later on if he wants to operate in the field and go under cover! If he is in Intelligence shouldn't he be keeping a very low profile so we don't even know he's FBI?

WJKK WJKF How does the established Sikh communities i.e. Southall, Handsworth, Leeds etc. cope with the new wave of immigration from Eastern Europe, Africa etc?

WJKK WKJF With the Delhi riots of 1984 how much practical help did Sikh Organisation like the SGPC, DSGMC, Akali Dal etc provide to the victims of the ant-sikh riots? Is it true the victims were largely neglected due to their low caste status particulary as they belonged more to the Mazhabi caste? 'The worst affected areas were however far flung, low income colonies like Trilokpuri, Mongolpuri, Sultanpuri and Palam Colony.' http://www.sikhworld.co.uk/page21.1.html

WJKK WKJF With the Delhi riots of 1984 how much practical help did Sikh Organisation like the SGPC, DSGMC, Akali Dal etc provide to the victims of the ant-sikh riots? Is it true the victims were largely neglected due to their low caste status particulary as they belonged more to the Mazhabi caste? 'The worst affected areas were however far flung, low income colonies like Trilokpuri, Mongolpuri, Sultanpuri and Palam Colony.' http://www.sikhworld.co.uk/page21.1.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/race/story/0,113...1394292,00.html Asians yet to gain quango job equality Vikram Dodd Thursday January 20, 2005 The Guardian The majority of government departments are failing to appoint a fair number of Asians to jobs on powerful public bodies, says a survey published today. Eleven of 18 departments fail to appoint Asians in proportion to their numbers in Britain, says the survey, seen by the Guardian. A foreword written by the prime minister admits "there is still much to do". The worst was the Northern Ireland Office, with four Asians in 1,002 quango posts available; at the the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, five out of 788 posts went to Asians, - 0.63% of the total, when Asians make up 3.96% of the population. The survey of quango appointments since May 2004 was compiled by Labour MP Keith Vaz, with the help of the public sector union Unison. The departments declined to help with data; it is unclear whether they had the figures, or lacked data since appointments to quangos do not have to be ethnically monitored. Last night a Cabinet Office spokesman surmised that they did have the data. The survey took a year of parliamentary questions. Asian appointments could be identified by their names, but an attempt to find out how many African-Caribbeans had been appointed had to be dropped because they were not easily identifiable. Other poor departments include constitutional affairs, 1.3%, transport, 2.2%, defence, 2.3%, and education, 2.4%. The Scottish Office appointed no Asians, but s ince May 2004 made four appointments only. Departments doing well include international development, 9.5%, health, 6.5%, and the Foreign Office, 5.4%. Mr Vaz said ministers should insist shortlists for quangos included one Asian and one African-Caribbean person. "The pool of talent is there," he said. "Whitehall departments are not taking seriously the commitment that has been shown by the prime minister that Britain is a culturally diverse society." In his foreword, Tony Blair writes: "I would like to take this opportunity to reaffirm the government's commitment to improving the representation of people from ethnic minority backgrounds on the boards of public bodies, subject of course to the principle of selection on merit. "The government recognises that there is still much to do in this area. I can confirm that this issue remains at the top of our diversity agenda." A survey in 1998 showed eight cabinet ministers, including the prime minister, had failed to appoint a single Asian to any public body since Labour came to power in 1997. Across government, Asians made up 1.7% of appointments, a figure the latest survey shows has now nearly doubled. The earlier survey found 16 departments had failed to appoint Asians in proportion to their numbers in Britain.

Thank you to all those who have added their comments. In Britain the Sikhs have done very well out of education and business. However more and more Sikh children do not want to take over from mum and dad in running the business. Therefore in the job market we are finding alot more Sikhs in the public sector and unfortunately racism is a big part of British Society. Mum and Dads' shop is hardly going to be racist against their own kids? So now a new generation of Sikhs who now have degrees are trying to make/break in to professions are being exposed to racism that they they have been protected from before.

WJKK WJKF To add further to my points from earlier:- 1) If grants were cut say and say it hurt the Jewish community the most the government would be accused as 'holocaust deniers'. 2) The old boys network consisting of white, middle class, oxbridge educated needs to be dismantled with government legislation. Sikhs are good enough to be doctors, business people but not good enough to be Directors, etc? 3) In 2001/2002 when the Indian and Pakistan lined up over a million troops on the LoC in Kashmir after the attack on the Indian Parliament, the Labour goverment talked about the importance of peace to both countries whilst selling militarily hardware to both nations. Then in 2003 the Labour government goes to war in Iraq over WMDs. Where is the evidence over WMDs now? The Labour goverment are fully aware of the GOI Human Rights abuses but cannot affford to let this get in the way of billion £ defence orders. 4) The MacPherson report of 1999 on the London Metropolitan Police stated the force suffered and I quote 'insistutionilised racism'. To this day the Police have not managed a successful prosecution for Blair Peach' murder (Southall 1979, school teacher on anti-racism march), Stephen Lawrence murdered 9standing outside bus stop) 1993, Ricky Reel (on the way home from a night out) murdered 1997. These are just the obvious cases the Met has failed to bring people to account. We as Sikhs pay the same amount of tax as our white counterparts so we expect the same level of service as when a white person is murdered.

WJKK WJKF As a Sikh born, educated and working in Britain, I am only now begginning to become aware of 'subtle' racism rather the obvious physical and verbal abuse. For example when I was at school, I wanted to take O level French as an option but was persuaded not even though the my grade never slipped below A mark. My French teacher advised me against taking the language as an option. The excuse was while my written assessments were excellent but my verbal skills were lacking. Surely though this comes with practice and interaction? I speak fluent English and Punjabi and can understand dialects of Hindi, Urdu etc. At no time did I ever attend Punjabi school or classes but being part of the Punjabi heritage we pick up and learn so why couldn't I have mastered the French language. On the work front I worked for a NHS Trust in London, even with the right qualification &, experience etc myself and other Sikhs were never considered for management and the Trust always picked white foreigners from South Africa, New Zealand, Australia, etc. what is this about? I spoke to some Moslems friends and they said 'funny that' because they had noticed and thought it was just them. Then there are the amount of times I get pulled over by the Police on 'routine matters'. Please post up your 'subtle experiences' of racism.

WJKK WJKF As a Sikh born, educated and working in Britain, I am only now begginning to become aware of 'subtle' racism rather the obvious physical and verbal abuse. For example when I was at school, I wanted to take O level French as an option but was persuaded not even though the my grade never slipped below A mark. My French teacher advised me against taking the language as an option. The excuse was while my written assessments were excellent but my verbal skills were lacking. Surely though this comes with practice and interaction? I speak fluent English and Punjabi and can understand dialects of Hindi, Urdu etc. At no time did I ever attend Punjabi school or classes but being part of the Punjabi heritage we pick up and learn so why couldn't I have mastered the French language. On the work front I worked for a NHS Trust in London, even with the right qualification &, experience etc myself and other Sikhs were never considered for management and the Trust always picked white foreigners from South Africa, New Zealand, Australia, etc. what is this about? I spoke to some Moslems friends and they said 'funny that' because they had noticed and thought it was just them. Then there are the amount of times I get pulled over by the Police on 'routine matters'. Please post up your 'subtle experiences' of racism.

WJKK WJKF Dear fellow British Sikhs with whats look like an election year I am curious what are the voting intentions are of the Sikhs. Overwhelmingly British Sikhs vote Labour but as a Sikh I feel the Labour Party for far too long taken our votes for granted. I feel the Labour Government has let the Sikhs down in the following areas:- 1) Introduction of Student Fees (affected Sikhs & Hindus the most because as an ethnic group we are have the largest percentage that go on to University). 2) The failure to introduce positive discrimation. Sikhs vastly under represented in the Public Sector (NHS, Police, Armed Forces) Directorships, Media, Sports, Politics. etc. 3) Not enough pressure on the Indian Goverment to improve Human Rights. 4) Discrimanation in the work place in regards to promotion, training, time of work off work due to family problems. I have lost count the amount of times other Sikhs have told me and experiencing it for myself the amount of times I have been passed over for promotions, pay awards and this is from Sikhs who are University graduates, have a better command of English than the English. I worked in a NHS Trust for a number of years where they would rather recruit Managers from Australia, New Zealand, South Africa etc rather than recruit your British born Univeristy educated Sikhs. With an elderly relative living with me I find it next to impossible to take time off work to look after ther. As a Sikh I have a duty to look after my elders which brings me in to conflict with my employers. When a relation dies and we as Sikhs take time off to visit the deceased family, my employers just do not comprehend why we need to go to pay our respects or attend funerals? 5) The Metropolitan Police failure to investigate the murder of Ricky Reel (Sikh student murdered by suspected racists) and bring about a successful prosecution. Please respond back to what you think are the issues for a Sikh living in Great Britain today.

http://www.southasianmedia.net/cnn.cfm?id=...e&Country=INDIA A daring, moving work Thursday, January 06,2005 NEW DELHI: Shonali Bose's Amu is one of the most significant films to come out of India in years. Rarely have we seen a recent Indian film that is so daring, weaving in big political, feminist themes with such sophistication. Yet it is a film that we will long remember precisely because all of these are subsumed under a moving, emotional mother-daughter tale. It is told with an integrity that shoots straight through the heart. How ironic then, that this debut film has been made by a U.S.-based non-resident Indian. Amu is set against the backdrop of the horrific anti-Sikh riots of 1984, when an estimated 10,000 Sikhs were butchered following the assassination of Indira Gandhi by her Sikh bodyguards. The two bodyguards were convicted but the families of the thousands of Sikhs killed are still waiting for justice. And the Congress, which was in power then, presides over the country today. The story is of Kaju, a young NRI (Konkona Sen Sharma), who comes to India to familiarise herself with her roots. She was adopted by Keya, now a U.S.-based NRI activist (Brinda Karat, in real life a leader of the CPI(M) and the All-India Democratic Women's Association), when she was three. As Kaju explores Delhi, including its slums — with a friend Kabir — she stumbles upon a dark secret of her past that her mother had kept from her. In unravelling the truth about her birth and adoption, she realises that both their lives are irrevocably link ed to the riots of 1984. The film seamlessly travels between the 1984 pogrom and the present. (The censors have imposed five audio cuts, and given it an `Adults' certificate on the specious ground that it was unnecessarily raking up old issues.) The screenplay is outstanding. You sense that its integrity comes from experience, not mere research. In fact, the director was an activist working in the post-riots relief camps. As for the acting, Konkona Sen Sharma and Brinda Karat are superb, but so too are many smaller characters, including Ankur Khanna, Yashpal Sharma, Loveleen Mishra and the granny. Non-actors Brinda Karat and the granny fortify its authenticity. Certainly, other films have dared to take on political issues. Apart from the Bengali and Malayali tradition of films tackling Communism and Partition, and Mani Ratnam's films, we have recently seen Anurag Kashyap's Black Friday (on the 1993 bomb blasts following Bombay's communal riots), Sudhir Mishra's Hazaaron Khwahishen Aisi (A Thousand Dreams Such As These) and Aparna Sen's Mr and Mrs Iyer. Bose tackles the communal riots head on. Amu seems closest in spirit to that powerfully moving, brilliant documentary My Mother India by Safina Uberoi, also a personal tale unravelling against the anti-Sikh riots. The horror of the riots is leavened with humour, irony, self-deprecation and telling class observations. Kaju's Delhi friend Kabir learns about the riots from the Internet via his laptop, and in a masterstroke of corrosive irony, when Kaju asks her Delhi relatives what they did during the riots, they busy themselves with Bengali `kalchar', singing Bhupen Hazarika's `O Gonga tumi.' The film ends with a reference to the Gujarat riots. But its real strength is that the director goes beyond pointing out the guilty: she indicts herself as well. Finally, this is a film about people like us. Shonali Bose prises through culture and poise to degenerating moral cores, ye t she links arms with all of us. The Hindu |

WJKK WJKF Dear fellow British Sikhs with whats look like an election year I am curious what are the voting intentions are of the Sikhs. Overwhelmingly British Sikhs vote Labour but as a Sikh I feel the Labour Party for far too long taken our votes for granted. I feel the Labour Government has let the Sikhs down in the following areas:- 1) Introduction of Student Fees (affected Sikhs & Hindus the most because as an ethnic group we are have the largest percentage that go on to University). 2) The failure to introduce positive discrimation. Sikhs vastly under represented in the Public Sector (NHS, Police, Armed Forces) Directorships, Media, Sports, Politics. etc. 3) Not enough pressure on the Indian Goverment to improve Human Rights. 4) Discrimanation in the work place in regards to promotion, training, time of work off work due to family problems. I have lost count the amount of times other Sikhs have told me and experiencing it for myself the amount of times I have been passed over for promotions, pay awards and this is from Sikhs who are University graduates, have a better command of English than the English. I worked in a NHS Trust for a number of years where they would rather recruit Managers from Australia, New Zealand, South Africa etc rather than recruit your British born Univeristy educated Sikhs. With an elderly relative living with me I find it next to impossible to take time off work to look after ther. As a Sikh I have a duty to look after my elders which brings me in to conflict with my employers. When a relation dies and we as Sikhs take time off to visit the deceased family, my employers just do not comprehend why we need to go t o pay our respects or attend funerals? 5) The Metropolitan Police failure to investigate the murder of Ricky Reel (Sikh student murdered by suspected racists) and bring about a successful prosecution. Please respond back to what you think are the issues for a Sikh living in Great Britain today.

Dear Singh Shiromani, While I may not agree with everything regarding the Agenda I wish you and the rest of the Sikhs who attend the meeting on the 29th January all the best. At least you are getting off your backside and doing something for Sikhi. Please try to spread the word to as many Sikh females to turn up. Also on the Agenda please can we discuss the representation of Sikhs in the Public Sector. Did you know Sikhs and Hindus as an ethnic group have the highest percentage as an ethnic group who attend University but where are we represented in Management, Directorships, Board Level, Media, Sports, Politics, etc. Not all of us can own a Business on the Broadway, Soho Road, Dudley Road etc. I will try to make the 29th January meeting.

Mkhalsa, I happen too agree that you should not 'matha tek' to a painting of any Bhagat or Guru this is idolatry. We 'methka tek' to the Shri Guru Granth Sahib as it is our 11th and living Guru containing the Word of God. No Gurdwara should have ANY pictures, drawings, paintings or even National Flags. We are Sikhs first and foremost, we worship and pray to Waheguru only, anything less then that is plain wrong. By debating, by putting forward arguments in the spririt of Sikhi you will be shocked and suprised there is much more common ground between the various Sikh branches than differences. The point of this topic was to correct common misconceptions of the Ravidassia and to point out what they are and not doing correctly in accordance oo the tenets of Sikhism (with a background of the history which explains why they do things in certain ways). No offence was attended to anyone. Sadly many Gurdwaras do get the basics wrong, this can be due to misinterpration of scripture & Hukamnama, ignorance or plain greed such as when the SGGS are 'hired' out for weddings, parties outside the confines of a Gurdwara. It is up to us to to be educated in the ways of Sikhi and its history to point what is wrong but always in the correct spirit. Jeevan

WJKK WJKF Shri Guru Arjan Dev the 5th Guru of Sikhism first incorporated Shri Guru Ravidass’ Bani in to the Adi Granth. If Guru Ravidass Bani were a contradiction to Sikhism no way would Guru Arjan Dev Ji have incorporated the Bani in to the Adi Granth? The Shri Guru Granth Sahib is a central part of worship to any Ravidassia Sikh Temple. The Sikh Gurus are revered and respected, Vaishaki, Diwali are celebrated. Like Guru Nanak Dev Ji, Guru Ravidass rejected the Hindu Caste System and both believed in One Omnipresent God. What does Hinduism believe in? So if Guru Ravidass rejected the Hindu caste system and believes in One Spiritual God what religion is he part of? To those Ravidassia who believe Guru Ravidass is an Hindu by all means carry on with this misconception but ask yourselves these questions what religion made you Untouchable in the first place then gave the higher caste the exclusive rights in religious and man made laws to abuse the lower castes, physically, mentally, economically, spiritually etc. Sikhism has given low caste untouchables a gateway to God and an equal standing with fellow man. Sikhism drew its strength from the low caste look at the Panj Pyare, famous Sikh Regiments as the Sikh Light Infantry drawn up from the Ramdasia and Mazhabi caste, the regiments’ origins can be traced right back to the days of Guru Gobind Singh Khalsa Army, then there are Sikhs like Giani Ditt Singh. There are far too many examples of low caste Sikhs to mention. For those Ravidassia who think they neither Hindu or Sikh but a separate entity called Ravidassia ask yourself the following question; can Shri Guru Ravidass’ Bani be taken out of the Shri Guru Granth S ahib and have enough spiritual content to cover everything from birth, marriage, children, death, the afterlife, etc. the answer is quite clearly no. Sikhism took ten Living Gurus plus other Bhagats to give us a complete picture of mankind and its relationship with God. If you look at the Christian Bible it has been written over hundred centuries and have many different authors like Jesus’ Gospels written by Mathew, Mark, Luke and John. How many Christians state they are followers of Saint Paul but not Christians. The reason the Ravidassia have etched out separate spiritual path is more political than spiritual. Unfortunately for the low caste Untouchables even in Sikhism there were certain elements within the Brotherhood who think it is entirely acceptable to carry on treating the people in the way Hindus treated them. This is a problem with individuals and organisations within Sikhism and not the fault of the Sikh Gurus or the Shri Guru Granth Sahib. The Ravidassia Community rather like the Sikh Ramgharia have therefore set up their own Gudwaras. This has given them the freedom away from prejudice, uplifted them spriritually and mentallly and put them on the map politically. Why do the Ravidassia have Hindu names and not adopt the outward symbols of the 5Ks. Quite simply when the low caste became Sikhs the corrupt elements of Sikhs hierarchy wanted a clear distinction between the high caste and low caste Sikhs. The low castes Sikhs were not encouraged to have Sikh names and adopt the 5Ks. You see class distinction throughout the world; in European Society it was once illegal to wear the same style of clothes as the upper classes. Dr. Ambedkar the famous Untouchable wanted to become a Sikh but he felt Sikhism had become corrupted with elements of Hinduism and therefore did not take convert to Sikhi. Now the Ravidassia Community have had the benefits of education, economic wealth and realised their contribution to Sikhism throughout history they are slowly drifting back to the Orthodoxy of S ikhism. :TH:

WJKK WGJWJKK WGJF Why, why, why does every time a newish Sikh Organisation is in the process of being set up and an agenda drawn up that the issue of 'Khalistan' is top of the list. For Khalistan to be a viable state it needs to cover a huge land area taking in to account, industrial and agricultural heartlands, access to natural resources such as water, a gateway to the sea, any landlocked nation has to have Treaties with its neighbours to fly over its airspace, any plane flying over its airspace without permission is seen as an act of war. What would become of Sikh Soldiers who are in the Indian Army? What about the constitution will there be guarantees in law to protect the minorities, will the new Khalistan attract foreign investment? Any expanding economy needs to attract migrant workers will the Indians be welcome in Khalistan if they are NOT Sikh? You go to any village, town, city in the Punjabi there is a genuine wish for a sizeable majority to settle out in the West? If you think this is not the case look around you and see how many Sikhs have left the Punjab for good legally and illegally, whom will the new Khalistan be for? And if Khalistan is created, can it be guaranteed foreign governments like the Pakistani will not interfere. Pakistan probably has a military plan already drawn up to take over once a Khalistan is created, if you think this is rubbish look at the history of Punjab and recently of 1947. Look how Pakistan has fought a proxy war over Jammu Kashmir for the last 50 years and yes it has been the brave Sikhs fighting off the enemies of India. Any hint that Khalistan is a terrorist State or supports terrorist activities you h ave to contend with America and its military and economic might. Look what happened to the Sudanese factory making aspirin when America got its facts wrong. I am under no illusions that the GOI abuses minorities like the Sikhs but it also abuses untouchables and other religious minorities. As a Sikh I want to talk about the elimination of caste, excommunications of Sikhs who play on the caste card, found taking bribes, found guilty of criminal acts. I Want a Sikh Organisation to be created which is missionary and will bring new members on board even they are low caste Hindus. I want to talk about Sikhs who have settled in the West their rights, their representation in private and public sector jobs, education, bringing up kids free from the influence of drugs and alcohol, paying of mortgages, health care, pension deficits, how corner shops are struggling against the onslaught of the big supermarket chains, the building over the countryside, this directly affects the quality of life, how Sikhs are under attack from other religions, how Sikhs in the Middle East are not allowed to build places of worship. What about the Sikhs left in Pakistan after 1947, what has the SGPC and the Akali Dal done to protect them, remember how many Sikhs left Jammu Kashmir during the troubles and how many Sikhs left Afghanistan once the Taliban came to power. Have Sikhs ever been compensated for the loss of life, limb, land, property during 1947. If the SGPC and the Akali Dal failed to protect Sikhs across the World how will they protect others in a new Khalistan?

WJKK WJKF Who does the represent exactly? Does the Sikh Federation (UK) represent ALL Sikhs i.e. Amritdharis, Kesdhari, Sahajdhari, Kesdhari, Patit, Ramgharias, Ravidasi, Balmiki, Ramdasia, Mazhbis, Bhatras, etc.? What procedures have the the Sikh Federation (UK) put in place so that ALL Sikhs in the UK could be represented fairly and equally by them. Your thoughts and views please.

WJKK WJKF Please remind the British of the Sikhs contribution during the 1st World War and particulary the 2nd World War sacrifices. 2005 marks 60 years of the end of the 2nd World War. The nation of India supplied the largest volunteer force for the Allies. It is estimated that nearly 75% of the Indian forces were Sikh. How will the nation of India and particularly the Sikh Community across the globe mark this historic occasion? Below is a link to a highly respected Sikh Regiment that contributed to the Allies during World War II. http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/...ts/Sikh-LI.html Jeevan

WJKK WJKF When a loved one dies, Sikhs are advised to cremate the dead and then to dispose of the ashes ‘in running water’. With the concept of disposing ashes in running water why do some Sikhs dispose of their loved ones ashes in the River Ganges, surely any of WaheGuru’s rivers is good as any other?

WJKK WJKF Why do promoters of Punjabi gigs put on shows/mela during the education term time? :wub: The promoters know fully well that it will be mainly our Sikh kids that will not attend school on that particular day. These Punjabi promoters are exploiting our youth for a fast buck and leading them away from something that is spiritual i.e. a good education. Remember how well our Sikh Gurus were educated? It is hard enough to bring up our children in the Sikhi way of life with so many distractions of the mainstream secular environment e.g., fashion dashan, music, and even worse alcohol, drugs, etc. When you do finally manage to get the kids on the straight and narrow path (i.e. going to school/college/university) to get educated these Punjabi promoters distract our future Sikh generation by holding gigs during term time and during the day. These Punjabi promoters know full well that it encourages our kids to bunk off school and thereby harms our future generation. In 2004 the campaign for ‘Respect for the Shri Guru Granth Sahib’ was launched, I say in 2005 ‘Respect for Sikh Kids in Education’ be launched. Please make other Sikhs aware of when these gigs are being promoted particularly the ones held during term time and in the daytime. A quiet word will then be required in the promoter’s ear to cancel these shows. It is NOT acceptable in my humble Sikh opinion to distract the young and vulnerable away from education. This has to be a major sin in Sikhism where the young and vulnerable are exploited, maybe s ome fellow Sikhs can quote from the Shri Guru Granth Sahib in regards to the exploitation of the young? In respect of the future Sikh generations. Jeevan

WJJK WJKF Interesting? The Khanda symbol is now widely used on car registration plates, van doors (next to the wording 'Put Jattan Det)', baseball caps, clothes, windows with the Khanda set as stained glass, fridge door magnets, etc. How do you you take back control of the Khanda which is much more than a 'trendy' symbol? Jeevan

WJKK WKJF 2005 marks 60 years of the end of the 2nd World War. The nation of India supplied the largest volunteer force for the Allies. It is estimated that nearly 75% of the Indian forces were Sikh. How will the nation of India and particularly the Sikh Community across the globe mark this historic occasion? Below is a link to a highly respected Sikh Regiment that contributed to the Allies during World War II. http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/...ts/Sikh-LI.html Jeevan

WJKK WJKF Please go to the websites below for information on Banda Bahadur. http://<banned site filter activated>/warriors/Ba...da%20Bhadur.htm http://<banned site filter activated>/warriors/Ba...da%20Bhadur.htm Jeevan

WJKK WJKF With the Moslem conversion thing refer them to 9/11. Please can everyone watch the forthcoming Channel 4 TV dramatisation titled, 'The Hamburg Cell'. This is the first major TV dramatisation of the 9/11 hijackings involving two years of research for the programme makers. The programme is on Channel 4 at 9.00PM BST, Thursday 2nd September 2004 UK. Apologies for the North American and European communities but I am not sure if C4 is available on digital satellite/cable. You have 3 days before the programme is transmitted please check with your service provider. You may need to record the programme as the time difference will mean the North American community will be at work. http://www.channel4.co.uk/listings/C4/inde...et=3&position=3 Jeevan