TavPrasad Singh

What if nice chairs were placed in the diwan hall? How would people react to that? Can you envisage us sitting on seats within the diwan like a church congregation? If practices seem outdated because of modernity does it mean they are wrong? Stting on the floor is part of our Gurdwara maryada whether in the diwan or langer hall. I mean some people say the kirpan is a dated "weapon" , does that mean if Guru Gobind Singh Ji was alive today his hukam would be that we carry modern day revolvers! Times may changes but maryada is timeless. Why not have chairs? Simply place the Guru Grath Sahib ji on a higher plane. This would ensure that people do not have there legs stretched out (because some people get offended by the feet pointing to Bani.......). If Guru Gobind Singh ji was alive today, he would ensure we carried the most up to date weaponary. You look at some of Guru Gobind Singh Ji's Shasters at Anand Pur Sahib, they were very modern for their time's and better than others held by contemporaries. I agree the Maryada is timeless, but the point of the Maryada is different.............it is about people sitting together and eating langar. Now whether they sit on chairs or on the floor is irrelevant. One thing that does annoy me though is having caste names for Gurudwara's i.e. Ramgarhia, Ravidasia etc. What do you Think Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is?? Would you sit on a chair in front of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib Ji!! We have to remember our place, we are Sikhs of the Guru, not Guru of the Guru!! The Maryada is what Guruji teaches his Sikhs. A bit of manipulation to Maryada is why we are seeing so much beadbi today. Turn your back to Guruji's teachings and you become Manmukh regardless whether you still look like a Sikh or not. If chairs were that important then Guruji would have got one for Akbar to sit on. The reason we sit on the floor in diwans & langar halls and why we drink Amrit from the same bata is because it eradicates castes, something that Randip is against.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!! People of other faiths are more receptive & understanding about Hukamnamas & Rehit Maryada. First of all we have to feel responsiblity for all Gurdwaras. When a Singh/Singhni enters any Gurdwara they must feel as if the GuruGhar is personally theirs. Many Sikhs have this comfort factor that at least my local Gurdwara or Jatha/Samprada Gurdwara sticks to Maryada, in other words "I'm alright Jack". Gurdwaras are social clubs and this environment is enhanced in a langar hall that looks more like a canteen! But its up to each individual to voice their concerns, either as Sangat or correspondance, raising awareness, posting Hukamnamas on Gurdwara notice boards, speaking to the committee. The more people become aware of Beadbi towards Guru Granth Khalsa then the SANGAT has to fix them, not just youth or R4G. Each Sikh has to stand in one way or another against this. As Sikhs we cant expect someone else to fix our problems. At minimum, lets put up the hukamnama onto the notice boards of thoses Gurdwaras who continue with the tables and chairs. Lets write a leaflet to distribute to the Sangat.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!! This is just blatant stupidity. Whats the School got to do with such melas? The reason why the poster might have to state that no alocohol allowed is because what these singers promote is a Punjabi Culture that has be totally overtaken by Drinking and Lads! They arent promoting anything else. The Sikh School know this but out of complete stupidity the wish to organise this event. Why can they organise a Sports Day, a childrens kirtan, a boot sale for God sake!!! There are many other ways to raise money. Baba Amar Singh should think twice, did Baba Nand Singh organise bhangra melas to build Nanaksar Jagron?? Did Baba Attar Singh prefer to do a Bhangra Mela to build Baru Sahib Academy?? The Hayes School has no faith in Guruji. They dont believe that Guruji will provide the money they need so the will go out and get it any way possible, even if that means bypassing promotion of Sikhi for a bunch of famous Bhangra Singers!! Practice what you preach, only then will a Sikh School benefit the Community. The SOLE aim of the School is Sikhi promotion!!! Or is it??

Do not expect a journalist, whether asian or not to show Sikhs in a good light. Journalist rarely have their own view. They keep readership, sensationalisation and personal career in mind. Dont forget we all might have differing views about whether the Bezti outcome was right or not but it was the key that got over 50,000 christians ringing BBC to stop the showing of Jerry Springer the Opera. People did understand the Sikh sentiments.

This is a great example of manipulation of Gurbani. "Aykaa Mayee" LOL! Little does Nirmala know that the tuk of Gurbani which she thinks represents her actually is: "Aykaa Mayee, Jugat vihaee, tin chelee parvan" from Sri Japji Sahib where Guruji explains the game of Maya and the three devte (Vishnu, Bramha & Shiv) who are under sole control of Waheguru Akal Purakh!! Well if she thinks she's maya then all the best to her LOL!!

Reality check! Its a thread about a crap journalist. Sunny exploits his Background to get up the career ladder. Journalists like him over exaggerate issues within their communities for shock value, keeping the white reader in mind. Same with you Prem, you have taken the thread into a totally different direction. Yes we do expect members of OUR community to promote the right stuff. Sunny doesnt do that, in fact he does the complete opposite and Sikhs are constantly bashed on his websites. These websites are where negative perceptions are created about Sikhs, and filtered down to our own community. This website spoke about flag burning at trafalgar square and didnt even want to mention genocide in Panjab. The website made us out to look like hooligans out to cause trouble in London! These websites reach more people than a posting by Sikh Supreme on Sikh Sangat :TH: Prem journalists like Sunny create the fear you currently have about Sikhs being termed as Mini Muslims. When Sikhs protest about just causes they are portrayed as wrong. People within our community also are quick to label their fellow Sikh as fanatics, is the term of the time. Death threats, riots, violence??? How many times has anything about the Sikh Community come in the mainstream papers?? I think you need to put things in context an stop over exaggerating things. Our identity will be lost because the press & wider society paint us with the same brush, to them we are all Muslims!

It sounds as if the Gurdwara had some really good things happening there, Elderly Day Centre, Sports & gym aswell as a school. I cant beleive the have shut this all down for Banqueting Halls!!! The committee have turned their back to their community! Besharam!!!!!

What makes you assume I am tainting all mahapursh? I dont regard this Swami as a Mahapursh. We all have the ablility & right to question the actions of those proclaiming to be Saints. The real saint will clear all doubts. Of course he is not Sikh, but does intice many Punjabis & Sikhs. People speak of him as a person who can cure illnesses & Spritual awareness.

Why is Sikh Awareness Society holding talks across UK about Islamic Conversions? This is the same thing, people are leaving Gurbani for Hinduism under the disguise of TV & Yoga. This is probably a bigger problem! Many of our community wont even dream about watching the dozens of Islamic Channels on Satelite however they are glued to a Hindu Swami on TV??

http://www.aasthatv.com/swamiramdev_venue.htm One good thing about the West is that people find out the true colours of Babas & Swamis from India who are just out to make money. The famous Swami Ramdev (as seen on TV!) is touring the UK with the aim to make people better & make thousands of pounds on the way! One workshop will be in Elmbridge Sports Grounds in Hainault, Ilford. There will be two 3 hours sessions a day and tickets have varying “suggested” donations. VIP ticket holders are expected to donate £500, Diamond ticket holders donate £300, Gold donates £140 and poor old Silver have to donate only £70! At the same place every Thursday you can have a 3 hour Salsa class for only £6.50. People are singing this Swami’s praises and are dying to attend these workshops. Well now the Swami’s true colours are out! He’s money hungry and out to exploit people. Don’t be fooled, no religious person will charge such prices. Where is the SEVA????

http://www.panthic.org/news/123/ARTICLE/2565/2006-06-18.html R4G (North America) Gets First Victory Sunday 18th of June 2006 Panthic Weekly News Bureau San Francisco, California (KP) - The recently launched Respect for Guru Granth Sahib Jee Campaign, North America, sponsored by Waheguroo! Network, Khalsa Alliance, Khalsa Press and others is reporting their first victory in the campaign to stop disrespect towards the eternal Guru. The campaign, with volunteers, spread out across North America, with head volunteers in San Francisco, Vancouver, and Toronto, is working closely with Sikhs in U.K. who have similar goals. Although the U.K. Respect for Guru Granth Sahib Jee Campaign has been criticized in the past, many have commented that they do everything they can to do things peacefully. Organizers for the North America campaign have said they are going to take a slightly different approach, with awareness being the key. One organizer said, “We want to make presentations at Gurudwaras and teach people why they shouldn’t disrespect Guru Sahib…Guru Arjan Dev Jee had so much respect for Pothi Sahib (now Guru Granth Sahib Jee) that he slept on the floor, beneath the Saroop.” One of the main goals of the U.K. and North America campaigns has been to stop weddings at hotels and other places where anti-Sikh activities may take place. “This is in accordance to Akal Takht Sahib’s hukamnamas and recent sandesh,” he said. Other goals include making sure that saroops of Guru Sahib do not get mistreated. “We have heard of cases where people do sukhasan into suitcases, there is the case in New Orleans where the granthi left the gurudwara and the saroops were on the floor with 10 feet of raw sewage on top of them. If we can stop that from happening ever again, it would be a great seva.” The North America campaign is claiming its first victory next weekend where a wedding in a Florida hotel has been diverted to the Gurudwara. Sangat worldwide had contacted the hotel and the family. After a week, with the grace of the Guru, the family changed their minds and decided not to hold the Anand Karaj at the Marriot Hotel. A U.K. volunteer was also contacted on their Sikh Alerts phone number; wishing to remain anonymous he commented on their goals, “We have to remember, we aren’t here to rescue Guru Sahib, he is here to rescue us. We just do what little seva [service] he grants us.” Respect for Guru Granth Sahib Jee Campaign, North America can be contacted at r4g-na@waheguroo.com or 1-805-768-0490. Respect for Guru Granth Sahib Jee Campaign, United Kingdom can be contacted at SikhAlerts@yahoo.co.uk or 07944 445651.

from discoversikhi.com forum: We've exhausted many options. Talking to the hotel didnt work. We personally talked to the family as did many other families but they arent budging. The wedding is this Saturday and there is a huge lack of interest in our sangat. There are only 3-4 people who are seriously concerned about this. We would appreciate any outside help or suggestions on how to deal with this issue. We hope this can be resolved but we need help! Right now we are attempting to organize a protest but there are only about eight individuals interested.. 4 of which are under the age of 17. Sangat Ji we still have time to turn this around!! Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji!!

Please Sangat Ji support the Gursikhs of Florida who are trying very hard to stop this beadbi, there isnt much time left.

whether it be a 5 * hotel or not, it is beadbi to take Guruji were there is meat or alcohol. Please think before making this thread into a comical one.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!! The best thing to do at this stage is to try and find out where Guru Maharaj will be coming from. Maybe then Gursikhs can put pressure on the Gurdwara Committee or Granthi or the Wedding Arranger. We have to now focus making the Hotel change its mind. Pass the message on to all your friends & familiy to ring the hotel, explaining the Hukamnama, how this act is hurtful and insulting to Sikhs, how across the world other Sikhs are trying to stop a handful of corrupt Sikh Priests selling Sikhi. Explain to the hotel that UK Hotels like LeMerdian, Hilton and Marriott were more that willing not to hurt the sentiments of the Sikh Worldwide Community.

No matter what we as Sangat have a voice. Please ring the Gurdwara and speak to Balbir Singh, Harjit Singh or Kewel Dhillon & tell them that they are going against Sri Akal Takht Sahib. Tel: 01735 - 376086

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!! http://forums.waheguroo.com/index.php?showtopic=14853 Posting by W!N R4G - North America Pyari Cyber Sangat Jeeo, We have just received details of a wedding in Florida on June 17th: Please write letters and call the hotel. Remember to be polite and informative. You are representing the Khalsa Panth when you contact them. Coral Springs Mariott Hotel 11775 Heron Bay Blvd. Coral Springs, Florida 33076 USA Phone: 1-954-753-5598 Fax: 1-954-753-2888 Sales: 1-954-227-4115 Sales Fax: 1-954-227-4102 Toll-free: 1-800-311-8018 Wedding of Shaun Singh Gulani D/O Gurinder Gulani. & David Brian Bayne S/O William Bayne (6/17/2006) Anand Karaj is scheduled for 5.30pm

http://www.panthic.org/news/124/ARTICLE/2514/2006-06-04.html Grays Gurdwara Committee Shuns Akal Takht Sandesh Sunday 4th of June 2006 Panthic Weekly News Bureau Sikh Temple, 6 Maidstone Road, Grays, Essex, RM17 6NF. Tel: 01735 - 376086 Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!! Grays Sikh Temple, Essex, is to construct a community centre specifically to cater for weddings and parties where meat and alcohol will be served. The total cost of the project is £480k, the Gurdwara will funding £80k of the total build cost. This is direct violation of the 2006 Sandesh from Sri Akal Takht Sahib stating that Buildings bought or constructed using the Daswand (one tenth of earnings) of the Sikh Sangat or Gurdwara donations are solely to be used for Gurmat purposes and the betterment of society. This Community Centre is being constructed solely to cater for weddings and parties where meat & alcohol will be allowed onto the premises. The Sandesh also states that there is no permission granted for dancing and singing or any acts which go against the principles of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. The Community Centre will promote acts against Gurmat. The plan of the community centre shows that the Gurdwara and the community centre will share the same wall. Currently the community centre is adjoined to the langar hall where parties have been allowing meat and alcohol to be served. The Gurdwara itself is in need of immediate repair and there has been no consideration about refurbishment or improvements. The initiator of this profane project is Gurdwara Stage Secretary Kewal Dhillion. The Gurdwara Committee have obtained Grant funding of £400k for the community centre. Gurdwara committees sole purpose to adhere and implement Hukamana’s & Sandesh’s from Sri Akal Takht Sahib, however once the president Balbir Singh Gill & Gen Secretary Harjit Singh where informed about the Sandesh they absolutely refused to acknowledge these principles. Currently the Gray Panjabi Community do not use the current Gurdwara community centre because it is poorly maintained. Instead, other local facilities are used. Gray Gurdwara is misusing Sangat monies to provide facilities that are not going to benefit the Grays Sikh Community in any way. The Community Centre will not be used for any other purpose apart from reception parties as the committee are unwilling to fund other activities within the centre. The Gurdwara Committee is exploiting the Anand Karaj cememony by promoting Gurmat activities in the Gurdwara and Manmat (acts against Sikh Principles) Activities in the adjoining Community Centre. The sole aim of this Gurdwara committee is to make money from selling Sikh Principles. This Gurdwara committee has to realise it position in Sikh Society as promoters of Sikh Principles rather that those who choose to ignore and manipulate Rehit Maryada for their own gains. Grays Gurdwara committee has to reconsider its plans and not allow meat, alcohol or dancing to happen in a building adjoined to the Gurdwara. The Gurdwara Committee have to recognise the Sovereignty of Sri Akal Takht Sahib and understand that the sole purpose of a Gurdwara committee is to promote Gurmat, and not to partake in any other activity that demeans the status of a Gurdwara. We ask the Gurdwara committee to confirm its adherence to Rehit Maryada and the Sandesh from Sri Akal Takht Sahib and that it will not use any of the Gurdwara facilities and funds to promote activities that are against Gurmat. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!! Respect For Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Campaign. Tel: 07944-445651 Email: sikhalerts@yahoo.co.uk www.GuruGranthSahibJi.com

BUMP!!

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!! A two day event for kids aged 4 to 12 years @ Guru Gobind Singh Khalsa College, Chigwell, Essex. Please attend!!! :TH:

Name & Shame At a large scale!! Lets start with a full page advert about Guru Nanak Cultural & Recreational Centre taking Maharaj to a hotel in Preston undercover!! One full page advert in DesPardes saying that this Gurdwara arranged with the family to keep it a secret that the Anand Karaj wasnt at the Gurdwara but at a Hotel!!! Shame on this Gurdwara!!!! Just might work

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!! The sandesh consise & clear! The are no two ways about it.....Gurdwara Committees have to take note and stop their party halls & granthis have to stop taking Maharaj to hotels. This is a major break through!!

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!!! This is not the time to boycott the Gurdwara. The youth have to remain united and attend the Gurdwara more! When did committees decide what happens in a Gurdwara. They are scared of the youth!!! Just have presence no matter what. Meet up there 3/4 times a week...just do chaupai sahib together, eat langar and go home...but do this when the committee fools are at the Gurdwara!!! When Singhs & Singhias take a stance no commitee can stop them!!!

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!! Read this; basically Sikhs should be good boys, accept all attrocites by GOI and smile Lord Nazir Ahmed Chair Parliamentarians for National Self-determination House of Lords London SW1A OAA 4th May 2006. Dear Lord Nazir. I was deeply distressed to see your letter in support of a Sikh group advocating self determination / independence for the Sikhs. We must always condemn human rights abuses wherever they take place regardless, but we should never encourage the break up of any country. Surely, a cure is better than surgery, don’t you agree? Please find enclosed a book on the life of my father, Shaheed Sardar Nanak Singh www.shaheednanaksingh.com who was martyred the day after he delivered a passionate speech on the 4th March 1947 in front of a huge gathering in Multan ( now Pakistan) along with Dr. Saifudin Kichlew, the all India Congress President. He stressed the need of gaining Independence as a united country and urged Mohammad Jinah not to keep Muslims in separate corners of India as they belonged to the whole nation. He also warned that by keeping them in isolation, it would make them intolerant and hostile to other religions and cultures. He pleaded that after independence India would be secular and democratic with one person one vote. As a result, Muslims would get proper representation in Central as well as local Government. He warned that if we went our own separate way, we would never experience peace and would be ruled by foreign powers. Sadly the very next day he was killed by religious fanatics while trying to save the lives of 600 innocent students of DAV College who were taking out a peaceful procession against the partition of India. Similarly, I urge you not to support another division of India to help history repeat itself. The people have already suffered enough. Can you imagine what another break up of India will entail for the peace and stability there? We got independence in 1947 and till today we are being ruled and controlled by super powers. Please ask why? United we stand and divided we fall. I am afraid we have fallen and have failed our people miserably for the sake gains for a few. You will agree that when ever there is a smash and grab in any country a few benefit but the majority always suffers. I would also like to urge all those Sikhs who wish to keep us out of India that they will damage our cause for their own personal gains forever. Sikhs belong to the whole of India, the world and not just in a corner of India. By keeping Sikhs separate and isolated they are going against the philosophy of our Gurus. The brotherhood of The Khalsa was created to defend the basic human rights of every Indian, regardless of religion and not to break up our motherland. Should we follow the teachings of our Gurus or should be follow the doctrine of self proclaimed leaders who use religion to further their own personal agendas. Our Gurus never asked for a separate Sikh homeland so why should some of his followers demand a kingdom for themselves. Are they greater visionaries than our Gurus? Finally, I urge you to show judgement which does not haunt people after you have gone. You should use your good offices in working toward creating a system like the EU so that the threat of war can be eliminated from the Sub Continent for ever. We must copy what we want to be. It is as simple as that. Do we copy the history of India and Pakistan or do we copy the achievements of EU for its people? Yours sincerely Dr. Rami Ranger MBE, FRSA Cc – The MP’s and Lords Mr Ranjit Singh, Secretary PNSD Also the Sikh community at large Please copy your replies to rami@sunoil.co.uk