Pyara

Reminds me of the tuk....... Saram Dharam Doe Chap Khaloe, Koor Firey Pardhan Vey Lalo. Modesty and righteousness both have vanished, and falsehood struts around like a leader, O Lalo.

Just wondering, I don't think Sikh Channel has covered this incident. Unless I missed the report?...I don't think many people in the wider Uk Sikh community know about this and it does need to be in the Sikh media at the very least..... Forget the mainstream white media as it's "low key" incident for them... We need to be acutely aware of these kind of attacks that take place on our Gurdwaras in the UK and they are probably likely to take place in areas such as these where the Sikh population is very small ....A couple of weeks ago the nishaan sahib in Milton Keynes Gurdwara was burned down....and we still don't know alot about the huge fires only last year at Bow Gurdwara or Doncaster Gurdwara or Cheetam Hill Gurdwara Manchester..

At the end of the day, no investment in IT or any other technology can replace a the real necessity of the Giani or Granthi. Their influence can be so key in the Gurdwara and their input can have mass impact on the sangat...... This thread is a real eye-opener. Makes you really think about how people can be exploited under the current Gurdwara system.

These comments can be classed as nothing but a moan and give no personal commitment to change.....It's back to the culture of finger pointing, passing the buck onto others and blaming others....simply shouting BEADBI doesn't influence change in the way things are done.... In real terms the blame for the misuse for Gurdwaras is collective and the responsiblity lies with each person who calls themselves Sikh...and if we truly desire change then we should have a presence in these gurdwaras promoting the right activities a guru ghar should be promoting....isolating ourselves and not associating with mainstream Gurdwaras where manmat sometimes takes places doesn't impact anything.... You can call it turning a blind eye or you can call it a gurdwara takeover by getting the right activities to take place in the gurdwara.... Believe it or not...the alleged goings on of a committee are not always as transparent as you may believe...they can easily cover up what they are doing...and the problem with Sarabjit Singh is that his previous vocal tact in different Gurdwaras in Ilford has left him being classified by some as hot headed, unfortunatly he's already been banned from Karamsar and now Singh Sabha.....therefore committees are conveniently able to get away with claiming that Sarabjit Singh is a troublemaker....so the problem is that Sarabjit Singh's claims are perhaps not taken as seriously as they should be by the local sangat. As per the East London grapevine and Sarabjit Singh the committee of Singh Sabha have allegedly done some anti-sikh things. If these things happened then there's no denying that those commtee wala are accountable....but until you change the individuals running the show you got little chance of the full truth coming out and more importantly little chance of more Gurmat activities taking place in the Gurdwara....

Thinking about it....looking what the voting powers did in Grays...! Imagine if more gurmat thinking people voted then the right activities would be performed by the committees... I know for a fact that the voting turnout at the Gurdwara elections will mainly be family and friends of the wannabe prabhandaks who are clever enough to strategically use them to get voted in... U find that the people who say they want change in the Gurdwaras rarely put themselves forward to implement change or never register themselves to vote for change...In the East London Singh Sabha elections any Sikh over 18 living in a postcode in Newham, Redbridge, Waltham Forest, Barking & Dagenham and Rainham can vote. Thats a pretty massive area and what u find is only around 1500 Sikhs actually vote in East London Singh Sabha elections when in fact East London has a significant portion of the estimated 700,000 Legal Sikhs living in UK (estimated at 15% which makes the East London Sikh population around 100,000) Gursikh youth are ready to turn up to one-off beadbi issues, but not yet willing to sacrifice their daily lives in ensuring a Gurdwara is run with Gurmat in mind....Few Gursikh youth put themselves forward to stand in these elections....That's the turning point.... Because until that happens you will get idiots sitting on the pardaans chair voting for meat and sharab to be served on the complex and other stupid anti-sikh decisions being made....

If my memory serves me right, the case discussed above was in relation to Mr Jasjeet "EastEnders" Singh (the turbaned one who walks around as an Extra on the sets of BBC Eastenders) who was also a cashier for the Guru Ghar. He was tampering with the receipt books regarding the donations given by the sangat. When caught out during a covert operation by the committee, he eventually admitted his guilt and I believe he paid (or is still paying) the Gurdwara back something in the region of £10k. The Police were not informed as he agreed to pay everything back. Duf Duf Duf DA DA DA DA (EastEnders theme tune....)

There's been an overwhelming amount of leafleting going on in East London, some from Sarbjit Singh, some from the current Gurdwara Committee and others from anonoymous sources. They are all finding dirt on each other and the problem is that its got to a point that sangat locally are confused on who's telling the truth and who's lieing. Some of the stuff appears to be communicated in a chinese whispers way. My personal belief is that Sarbjit Singh's claims are likely to be true. I don't know him too well, but from what I have seen of him he is a genuine Gurdwara sewadar who get's on with real sewa. He's not a showman and I don't believe would have a hidden agenda. The only problem with this is that he is likely to be played by other cleverer parties who will push him forward as a fall guy.....It's not a coincidence that all this stuff is coming out around election time...

Bhangal Ji, There's so much crap going on with the committee at Seven Kings Gurdwara even I've lost the plot.... Can't keep up with whose done what and who's banned and who's not....who's done which fraud....even the final episode of LOST was less complicated...

Just received confirmation that the following Cardiff Gurdwara allows parties in their langar hall where they also allow meat dishes and alcohol to be served. They lock the Darbar Sahib and perform the Sukh Asan of Maharaj's saroop before the party starts in the langar hall-cum-party hall.....how bloody considerate of them!!!!..... Nanak Darbar Bhat Sikh Temple 18 Copper Town, Adamstown, Cardiff South Glamorgan Wales

Thanks for confirming either way. Good to know Gursikhs proactively changed things in Scotland. Further to confirmation needed about the rumours around Donacaster and Manchester, I just remember being told about a wedding in Cardiff 2 years ago where they saw bacon, eggs and sausages being served as morning Guru ka Langar. Is that practice still taking place in one of the Cardiff Gurdwaras??....

There's several more Gurdwaras run by the Bhat Sabha where it is believed the "English fry up" is served as Guru Ka Langar on weekends. Doncaster, Manchester, Glasgow and Edinburgh are rumoured to be serving meat as langar, please can someone confirm this........

As harsh as it sounds....if Giani Ji has principles and devoted to Sikhi, why is he allowing himself to be exploited by the committee..??...From what is now emerging the meat and alcohol have been served in the Grays Gurdwara complex for several years already... The congregation will only be as strong and principled as the preachers. If the preachers give in to the manmat by turning the other cheek, then what chance have the congregation got..? There has to be a large proportion of blame targeted towards the Gianis, Granthis who hide behind a facade of being helpless acting as loyal employees of the committees. Time for the Granthi's in these situations to "man up" or accept their part in the whole beadbi. Giani Ji may not drink alcohol or eat meat, but he is willing to still be employed by a committee who will exploit Sikhi to promote their own manmat. He can be an inspiration to everyone by walking out of Grays in the name of Principle.... or can be just another run of the mill "fantastic person" who has sold himself out for a salary...

Well done Bhenji. It's never too late to start anything Gurmat. Good luck.

....and the list can act as a reminder that something needs to be done... If we don't act upon it, these halls will eventually be our downfall....Those reponsible for promoting manmat under the disguise of gurmat are Masands...whether they think they are is another matter...Sikh History of the furture will look back at these committees and classify them as anti sikh for promoting the kind of things that the likes of Massa Ranghar did in Harmandar Sahib or Narain Das did in Nankana Sahib

Oh no...Not the Woolwich branch? They look so panthic.... http://ramgarhia-association.org/default.aspx Ramgarhia Sikh Association Masons Hill, Woolwich, London, SE18 6EJ Office Tel: 020 8854 1786 Public Tel: 020 8854 4694 Fax: 020 8854 6084

Update Gurdwaras reported so far - 10 Of which are: Ramgharia - 5 Masands other - 4 Bhatra - 1 The Ramgharia sardars lead the beadbi board, closely followed by the Masands other category. Bhat sabha still at the bottom, however, I think there's more to be reported......Waheguru!!

The Ramgharia sardars are going for a world record!! Meat and alcohol is also served in a hall which is owned by and next to the gurdwara below Ramgarhia Gurdwara Unitarian Hall 27-29 Waverley Road Small Heath Birmingham B10 OHG 0121 771 0680 http://www.ramgarhiacounciluk.com/

This Gurdwara has an adjoining Community Centre where parties and receptions are held allowing meat, alcohol and tobacco into the Gurdwara complex.... Guru Gobind Sikh Temple (Sunderland Sikh Association) Ashbrooke Hall, The Cloisters, Sunderland, County Durham SR2 7ED 0191 5672939

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/beds_bucks_and_herts/10387481.stm Arson attack on Milton Keynes Sikh temple flag pole Page last updated at 08:17 GMT, Wednesday, 23 June 2010 09:17 UK A flag pole at a Sikh temple in Buckinghamshire has been set on fire. The arson attack took place in Leadenhall, Milton Keynes, on Tuesday when two offenders set fire to the fabric-covered base of the flag pole. The flames quickly went out and while the flag was not damaged the fabric around the pole will need replacing. Acting Ch Insp Amanda Blake said: "The Sikh flag holds great significance... naturally the members of the temple and the local community are very upset." "There is no evidence or indication that this incident was driven by racial or religious motivation," she added. "We will be increasing patrols in the area to offer reassurance and send out a message that this behaviour will not be tolerated in Milton Keynes." Police want to speak to a cyclist who went past the temple as the offenders ran from the scene

Also the following Gurdwara committee serve an "English Fry Up" as Guru Ka Langar on Sundays, consisting of scrambled eggs, bacon, sausages (and I don't mean the Linda Mcartney veggie ones!!) Gurdwara Tegh Bahadur Sahib Bhatra Sabha 8 Clovelly Road, Southampton SO2 0AU Tel: (02380) 224 744

Guru Nanak Gurdara -Huddersfield Prospect Street Huddersfield HD1 2NK (01484) 423773 http://www.gurunanakgurdwarahuddersfield.org/index.html gurunanakgurdwarahuddersfield@gmail.com who run the... Sikh Leisure Centre , Prospect Street , Huddersfield , HD1 2NX, Tel: 01484 450650 The function hall allows alcohol, meat and basically anything manmat..

And there's these other "misl sardars" in Leicester Ramgarhia Board 51 Meynell Road Leicester LE5 3NE Tel: 0116 221 6187 (Office) Tel: 0116 276 0765 (Public) who run this place... Ramgarhia Community Centre Ulverscroft Road Leicester LE4 6BX Ulverscroft Tel: 0116 253 1986 http://www.nomadiq.co.uk/ulvers/index.htm

I have got one..and guess what it's those sardars who claim they are from the "Ramgharia misl" again!!..I can see a little trend here... Ramgharia Board Leeds. 8-10 Chapeltown Road, Chapeltown,. Leeds, LS7 3AP. Tel: 0113 262 5427

Is this letter only effective if you are able to personally attend the lobby and directly meet you MP? Can I still write to my MP and request his attendance, even if I cannot make the 30th? Thanks

Bhai Sahib Gurpreet Singh Shimla Wale and Jatha will be holding Kirtan Diwans at following Guru Ghars in the East London/Ilford area Friday 18th June - 6.30-8.00pm Gurdwara Sikh Sangat, Francis Road, Leyton E10 6PL Friday 18th June - 9.00-10.00pm Gurdwara Singh Sabha - Sikh Naujwaan Sabha, 720 High Road, Seven Kings, Ilford IG3 8SX Sunday 20th June 10.00-11.00am Ramgharia Sikh Gurdwara, Neville Road, Forest Gate E7 9QX Sunday 20th June 11.00-12.00pm Dasmesh Darbar Gurdwara - British Sikh Student Federation, Rosebery Avenue, Manor Park E12 5PT