00singh

You know what, forget it. Your right, im wrong, im the dust of your feet. Waheguru

Yes many Sikhs believe it as a mass, short-lived genocide. Sikhs were killed by Hindu mobs, one group of people killing members of another which defines this as Genocide in Sociology. Justice is all we wanted for the last 24 years. WJKK WJKF :vaheguru: NO THEY WERE NOT !!!!!! Riots of 1984 were NOT Hindu vs. Sikhs. It was an attack on a minority (Sikhs) by the political party in power at the time, Congress. Indira Gandhi, then leader of Congress party and then Prime Minister of India bears much of the blame for attack on Darbar Sahib ("Golden Temple"), and she paid for this mistake with her life. Even the riots that happened after Indira Gandhi was shot by her own Sikh bodyguards were purely political. None of the attacks had anything to do with the Hindu faith. STOP SPREADING HATRED !!!! People should really do some research on what exactly happened, rather than believing everything they hear at the Gurudwara. PS I put some things in bigger letters to ensure people don't miss them, as they are crucial in understanding the tragic event. Where you there in India when this happened? My parents told me what happened, from a primrary source that is. Im not saying all Hindus killed SIkhs, there were Hindus protecting Sikhs, BUT ALL THE PEOPLE THAT KILLED SIKHS WERE HINDU!!! My mom told me that on the radio, a message played that said Indra Gandhi was killed, and the Sikhs should pay for her death. I do know what happened; spreading ignorance, hatred, and lies is plain uneducated. I look at facts, and spread these facts. I know you are a Hindu and upset, im not saying Hindus are bad, im just saying that Hindus were the only people that killed the Sikhs. you said, "Sikhs were killed by Hindu mobs" "BUT ALL THE PEOPLE THAT KILLED SIKHS WERE HINDU!!! " Ok look at it this way, they were thugs who did what they did for money. IF someone had given them money to kill hindu's they would have done the same. Yes, your mom maybe correct, I was like merely 1 yr old at the time, so sorry if i don't remember much. but i have done a little bit of my own research from non-sikh sources a while back. But the question is, who was controlling the radio broadcast? The politicians of course. PS. I'm not a Hindu :rolleyes: (admin's can verify that if you are really paranoid about it) That is so typical of apney people, if someone speaks against the mainstream view, they get labeled as Hindu <_< STOP SPREADING LIES FIRST!!! You can raise your font size to the maximum and you'll still be full of crap! Explain, which part was a lie? I apologize for the big font, got carried away with emotions while writing the previous post. Tell me why you think your non-sikh sources haven't been smeared by politicians? THEY WERE NOT PAID! Police did not stop crowds, were they being paid also? There is no need to try to bring up your ethos, you defended Hindus so automatically one will assume you are Hindu, sorry for the incorrect label. However these crowds of people were easily aroused, no one goes on a killing rampage and rapes and murders men, women, and childeren. Soon they will see beyond the money and see a human; however, they saw Sikhs that were not the same as themselves, who were Hindus. These easily aroused crowds that take aggressive actions of violent nature are called mobs; therfore, these were Hindu mobs. You can deny this all you want, but the facts show these attacks were done with more motive than just money, hate clearly had an important role in the violence that shook 1984 India.

People lets not get off topic!!!!! :offtopic: lol and also lets not try to fight each other because im feeling a little tension rising!!! Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh :vaheguru:

Yes many Sikhs believe it as a mass, short-lived genocide. Sikhs were killed by Hindu mobs, one group of people killing members of another which defines this as Genocide in Sociology. Justice is all we wanted for the last 24 years. WJKK WJKF :vaheguru: NO THEY WERE NOT !!!!!! Riots of 1984 were NOT Hindu vs. Sikhs. It was an attack on a minority (Sikhs) by the political party in power at the time, Congress. Indira Gandhi, then leader of Congress party and then Prime Minister of India bears much of the blame for attack on Darbar Sahib ("Golden Temple"), and she paid for this mistake with her life. Even the riots that happened after Indira Gandhi was shot by her own Sikh bodyguards were purely political. None of the attacks had anything to do with the Hindu faith. STOP SPREADING HATRED !!!! People should really do some research on what exactly happened, rather than believing everything they hear at the Gurudwara. PS I put some things in bigger letters to ensure people don't miss them, as they are crucial in understanding the tragic event. Where you there in India when this happened? My parents told me what happened, from a primrary source that is. Im not saying all Hindus killed SIkhs, there were Hindus protecting Sikhs, BUT ALL THE PEOPLE THAT KILLED SIKHS WERE HINDU!!! My mom told me that on the radio, a message played that said Indra Gandhi was killed, and the Sikhs should pay for her death. I do know what happened; spreading ignorance, hatred, and lies is plain uneducated. I look at facts, and spread these facts. I know you are a Hindu and upset, im not saying Hindus are bad, im just saying that Hindus were the only people that killed the Sikhs.

Yes many Sikhs believe it as a mass, short-lived genocide. Sikhs were killed by Hindu mobs, one group of people killing members of another which defines this as Genocide in Sociology. Justice is all we wanted for the last 24 years. WJKK WJKF :vaheguru:

Could not have said it any better Teji, WJKK WJKF. :vaheguru:

I honestly used to think that rednecks are radical christians who do not want to learn about other beliefs. I was wrong and I thank you for this! WJKK WJKF :vaheguru:

lol, that is on of the main thing Sikhs wish for. For people to know who we are and what we stand for, so hate can vanish in this world. Thank you. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh :vaheguru:

Thank you, 00singh. I've seen this phrase written here a few times over the course of my short time on this site. Can you please tell me what it means? I appreciate your insight. Of Course, Waheguru means God or the Lord, which is really prevelant in Sikhism. The phrase "waheguru ji ka khalsa," is saying that the Khalsa, which are the pure ones - of any religion, belong to the lord, and "waheguru ji ki fateh" is saying that the victory belongs to God. Hope this helps - Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh :vaheguru:

Chris you are more than welcome to be here. If you seek any questions please ask and I guarantee any of the Sikhs will gladly reply. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh :vaheguru:

Actually it is said that the moon was part of Earth. Where the current Pacific Ocean is to be exact, and a meteor skimmed the earth sending the huge chunk of the "Pacific Area" into space. They say this because the moon rocks are identical to the ones found at the bottom of the Pacific. Can anyone find the Shabad that stated the Earth and Moon came from the same body? I remember reading this, or something similar, in one of the shabads but having a hard time trying to find it! WJKK WJKF :vaheguru:

I agree, most religions only survive on intimidation and such. Such as Islam, Christianity, etc. But Sikhism, and there must be others, gives freedom for one to choose his or her faith, that is the point of having ones own faith. Saying that one will go to hell because one does not awknowledge Jesus Christ is absurd, this is just using pathos. This intimidation is cold hearted and instead of making the faith stronger, it makes it weaker because it hurts its ethos, it cannot be held credible. I respect your faith, but I do not respect you saying everyone else will suffer the firey depths of hell, all based on absurdity. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ “The world is going up in flames, O Lord— shower it with Your Mercy, Save it, and deliver it from sin through whichever door (religion) humanity approaches” (SGGS 853). “I aspire for neither worldly pleasures nor do I crave for salvation. I crave for the love of the Lord’s feet” (SGGS 534). Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh :vaheguru:

:vaheguru: Thank you for asking. I'l answer here, I hope it iisn't a problem for the admins (if it is you can delete it and I'll answer by private messages). When Israel was fighting against his ennemies, Joshua prayed to God, and God stopped the course of the sun so that his people had the time to win the battle. Now, of course we know now that in fact it is the Earth that goes around the Sun, but seen from Earth, the Sun stopped. It isn't a contradiction with science, because you still say today that the Sun goes up in the morning, even if scientifically it isn't so. What really happened is that, on this single day, God (God himself, not Joshua, Joshua only prayed to God) stopped the whole course of the Universe ! All the moves of planets around stars, of moons around planets and everything else, stopped for one day to give God's people the time to beat their ennemies ! It's simply the greatest miracle of the whole Bible (or the greatest "scientific" miracle, the miracles of lives wholly changed by Jesus are far greater). And for Isaiah who made the Sun go backwards, in fact he made the shadow move backwards, which could be explained by special light conditions (that doesn't mean it isn't a miracle, but it doesn't necessarily mean that the Sun went back). Why didn't any other people notice what happened. That's an interesting question, and in fact I never thought about it. Maybe (I say maybe, I'm not sure about this) the scientific knowledges at this time weren't enough advanced to notice what happened. When you look out of your window you don't see the Sun moving, so you wouldn't necessarily realize if it stops for a time. And another thing : the most modern sciences have discovered that in the astronomic moves, it is as if somewhere a few hours are missing. Just as if the whole Universe stopped moving for a few hours of time. And this was most certainly the day when Joshua prayed. This was found out by the Nasa. You can read more about it on this page : http://www.reasons.org/resources/apologeti...ualongday.shtml. (The site says the 23 hours 40 minutes accounted for become a day, like the Bible says, if you count what Isaiah did. I think the Bible speaks approximately, and 23 hours 40 are approximately a day). For your other question, I'll answer it in a second post as someone else asked the same. Using this arguement you say that the Earth stopped rotating. The Earth spins at approx. 1,000 miles per hour, therefore, if one stops this rotation, all life on earth would vanish, atleast most would. Inertia would keep all the bodies moving in one direction, eastward to be exact, so that means all the buildings would collapse, water from the ocean would cover land, drowning millions, and many bodies would be toppled and launched eastward. This would result in utter destruction of life all over the world. Since this clearly did not happen, otherwise I wouldn't be here typing this, then it could not have happened. I am not trying to be rude, but just trying to get a logical understanding. Also with regards to the Earth slowing down according to NASA, the Earth could have always spun at 23 hours 40 mins. If you do not believe so, and say that it progressed, then it is possible through attraction. Earth is attracted to the Sun, which is increasing in mass, so the attraction would increase with the Sun, thus changing our course a little and altering day night differences. Earth is also affected by all other bodies in the Universe, far more than our telescopes can see, and alterations in these large stars will also affect us, but only slightly. A huge buildup of these small alterations will cause a noticeable difference in day time differences, noticeable by using advances in science that is. Also Earth is constantly being bombarded by debris, and this will definitely cause alterations over a period of time. There is no doubt there Earth doesnt spin at 23 hours and 40 mins, thats why there is leap years. Just a logical view to better understand, but I am sorry, Isaiah's story does not seem rational and believeable. But if you can explain why there was no destruction and how these outside forces do not affect Earth then please do so because I would like to understand more about my fellow brother and his beliefs. The laws of Physics abide the Lord, by his hukam they were placed and all of nature follows his laws. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh. I very highly encourage many people to take a quick glimpse at www.sikhs.wellington.net.nz/Sikh_Religion.pdf the amount of Science in SGGS is absolutely amazing. The Spiritual Aspect far exceeds anything in the world. WJKK WJKF. :vaheguru:

Can you please explain this? I do not see how all faiths are not true. You are saying as if I live a pure life filled with love for my fellow human being, no matter what his or her appearance or beliefs, and with love for the one universal God and attempt my best to aid men and women and live a humble life, I will not achieve salvation? If this is not what you are saying then please clarify, for I do not understand how one can boldy say that one religion is correct except their own, even if they live a saint life. I respect your view but do not see how it is possible, maybe you can help clarify. Thank you. WJKK WJKF. :vaheguru:

I also have a couple questions for Phillip or anyone who is of Christian faith. My friend was telling me about Christianity, but he arrived to a story about Joshua stopping the Sun and he reversal of the Sun's course by Isaiah. I was just wondering two things, one is that wouldn't people all around the world be in complete awe and amazed at the sight of the sun stopping and moving? If so wouldn't it be widely published in many doctorines? Another question is that my friend said Isaiah reveresed the Sun's course, however, the Sun doesnt have a path around the Earth. The Earth travels around the Sun, so wouldnt Isaiah really be changing the Earth's course not the Sun's? Another thing I had a question about, was how the universe created in 6 days. Why did it take God a day to create the moon, another for the sun, another for the Earth, etc when the moon is a speck compared to the Sun? Also if god is powerful , then why so many days, why not 1? I final question that I have is how a religion can say that all other religions are false and to follow others will result in one to go into hell. This seems to me and to other atheist I know, as an intimidation and using pathos to keep a religion alive. Further clearing of this will be greatly appreciated because I do not wish to see another religion as having an evil persona. I am not trying to point out any flaws as many of my Christian friends thought, I would like to clearify my understanding about Christianity so I can better work with my fellow classmates and co-workers. My friends could not answer my question, so I was hoping Phillip or any other Christian could assist me. I felt bad beacuse I feel as if I may have offended them when I question their beliefs. Thank You. WJKK WJKF. :vaheguru:

Sikhs believe in equality of all mankind and religions and thats why many of my friends converted. Sikhism does not have missionaries and believes by living a pure life full with love for God, no matter what religion, color, or gender one may be of, they will achieve salvation. Another reason why my friends choose Sikhism is because none of the writings conflict with modern science, but modern science backs up many beliefs. I will give examples by referring to you with some shabads, most of these came from Adi Granth which was compiled in 1605, but all of them can be found in Sri Guru Granth Sahib which was compiled in 1708. "From the union of the sperm and the female egg, the body was formed" (SGGS 1026). Anton van Leewenhoek discovered sperm when he looked underneath a microscope in 1677, however it wasn't until 1875 that science discovered this was how human body was created. Another example is with physics, where it states that "Nothing is produced and nothing is lost. I say it by God's grace" (SGGS 695). This idea quickly brings up the idea of conservation, be it energy, matter, charge, etc. Also in SGGS 176, the different Ages are mentioned. Here I infer that it means evolution was the process that human form came, however God carried out the process. Many of my Sikh brothers will disagree with me, while others will agree. These are just some reasons why many became Sikhs and why I am still a Sikh today eventhough everyday stories about Jesus and Christianity are heard in school. I did not talk about the bliss every time I sing praises of the Lord or other main beliefs in Sikhism so please forgive me, but many others in this forum have, I just choose to show you a more scientific view of Sikhism. Sangat Ji, if any of my interpretations are wrong please correct me and further help me understand Waheguru and his marvelous plays. I would gladly post more about other beliefs, but unfortunately I have finals to study for, so please pardon my inability to further help you understand Sikhism at the moment, I will try to post more as soon as possible. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh. :vaheguru: Much more information about Science and Sikhism can be found at www.sikhs.wellington.net.nz/Sikh_Religion.pdf for anyone who is interested. WJKK WJKF.