WBA

Keerpa, Your comments are ridiculous ! I am a Sikh and can honestly say with conviction having a Distaar in this day and age (ie. economic climate) is excelling my career. I have travelled the world. Played water sports/ extreme sports/ held meetings with captains of industry, forefront of my profession (humbly speaking). Wearing a Distaar/ keeping unshorn hair is not for the weak or for fantasy ridden bollywood mundae who have low self esteem. A Sikh in the 21st century wears his/ her Distaar with pride, confidence, conviction. He/ she is suave, a debonair ! When he/ she speaks at work, people listen, he/ she is respected. Why ??? Because they wear their Distaar with CONFIDENCE (not arrongance or ignorance). We have standards. We dont comprimise 'to fit into some fantasy'. Our partners in life are strong. Most of these patka wearing boys have low self esteem and actually ashamed to have long hairs. They disguise it to appear to be a mona. They are weak. However, when playing sports a patka can be a useful alternative to covering your hairs (temporaraly) as not to cause dispresect to ones Distaar if it was knocked off or soiled through sweat, etc. Their is no excuse for a Sikh not to wear a Distaar in this day and age. PS. A Distaar is not the same as a pagh or turban !

Agree 100% xHarinder_singh with you ! It is people (not Sikhi and its principles) and their behaviours that will show 'glimmers' of Sikhi even if they are non-Sikh. HOWEVER, this should be no excuse not to Amrit shaak and do Sikhi parchaar. There is a small minority of 'Sikhs' who are Sikhs not because they claim alliegence to the Guru but for homae (ego). You should tell your friend to become a true Sikh and not make excuses on behalf of corrupt so called Sikhs (who incidently cannot be Sikhs because their behaviours are against Sikhi). He should lead by example !!!!!

Is he a sehajdhari sikh ? Does any panthic rehat maryada define a sehajdhari sikh ? He maybe classed as a sehajdhari Sikh in casual terms only . But he is not a SIKH. Either you are a SIKH according to the Maryada above or not. There is no half way to be called a Sikh. Monae, trim Sikhs, non-Amritdhari Sikhs, sehajdhari Sikhs are NOT SIKHS ACCORDING TO THE GURU.

It's not idolising, as nobody is worshipping the pictures? Its a nice drawing, and it isn't saying anything negative about our Gurus. I think your jealous :lol: I have no reason to be jealous ! We cannot allow false imagery of the Gurus. They are sacrosant. Any picture of the Gurus are blasphemous ! But its good inspiration, to get you to see the Gurus for real in your meditation. Sure no painting can be exactly like that of The Guru it is only the artists impression, same with every painting, but its an idea a glympse of what they really were like. Its Just good inspiration. Mediation for a Sikh is based on Waheguru which is formless/ selfless according to Sri Guru GRanth Sahib Ji. So why would a Sikh need an artists impression to help them to mediate, etc? no i mean when you meditate on Waheguru, and you see the guru then you will be able to tell who it is. But having thought about it now, if you see the Guru in your meditation(on Waheguru) it will probably come with the innate knowledge of knowing which Guru it is anyway. EXACTLY ! These artist impressions are meaningless and contravene Sikhi.

It's not idolising, as nobody is worshipping the pictures? Its a nice drawing, and it isn't saying anything negative about our Gurus. I think your jealous :lol: I have no reason to be jealous ! We cannot allow false imagery of the Gurus. They are sacrosant. Any picture of the Gurus are blasphemous ! But its good inspiration, to get you to see the Gurus for real in your meditation. Sure no painting can be exactly like that of The Guru it is only the artists impression, same with every painting, but its an idea a glympse of what they really were like. Its Just good inspiration. Mediation for a Sikh is based on Waheguru which is formless/ selfless according to Sri Guru GRanth Sahib Ji. So why would a Sikh need an artists impression to help them to mediate, etc?

It's not idolising, as nobody is worshipping the pictures? Its a nice drawing, and it isn't saying anything negative about our Gurus. I think your jealous :lol: I have no reason to be jealous ! We cannot allow false imagery of the Gurus. They are sacrosant. Any picture of the Gurus are blasphemous !

Please do NOT promote 'impressionist paintings' of the Gurus -it is just plain wrong: IDOLISING !!! There where no direct paintings of the Gurus that they endorsed of themselves. These are man made fabrications of what the Gurus MAY have looked like. Dont make the Gurus out to be some type of cartoon characters. Apply your artistary/ talent elsewhere...... :jamdoot :jamdoot :jamdoot :jamdoot :jamdoot :jamdoot

Monae are human beings but that does not make them Sikhs. As we all know Sikhi emphasises equality amongst humans but again they monae cannot be Sikhs. I am sure many monae do great sewa, very knowledgable, etc but they cannot be Sikhs with shorn hairs.

Only Sikhs can give hukhmana (ie. Amritdhari Sikhs). Monae are not Sikhs. Save the 'its the inside that counts' and 'there are so many pagh/ Gurdwarae that are so corrupt' for some monae.com website. Sikhs practice Sikhi ! Monae are best served in some country side Dera serving their baba.

talikhaak, I got a request, kindly ban or if u cant ban me, just deactivate my account. I came back as some people wanted me to. I dont really want to be a part of forums/infact I dont really want to be a part of anything right now.......................... To be honest, I have lost a large majority of my panthic love........... Singh, This site needs you ! No need for hero styles. Just do what you do best. Expose the baba/ dera challeas. The Panth needs you. Dont be put down by childish comments. The Panth is bigger than these monkey, limping chaleas. See you round !

Excellent discussion ! Keep it up brothers and sisters (in no order of importance of course).

Not true -just spoke with the Gurdwara it is on !

Here are the answers of your questions 1)Rehatnama of a contemporary of Guru Gobind singh says that singhs asked him to include his bani in Aad Granth ji. Guru ji replied" This is my past time". So it was his humilty having not included his writings in SGGS ji. That does not mean that they are not relevant. IT is written by tenth Guru and we respect those. 2) Nobody say no sikh has denieed that. SGGS is our Guru. People like darshan and other heretics are creating a phantom out of nothing . SGGS is our Guru eternal and Dasam Granth is our second most scared scritpure. SGGS imparts spiritual knowledge and is applicable to whole humanity. Dasam Granth deals with khlsa panth as an organized religion. That is the reason anti sikh organizations are after Dsam Granth. 3) When dasam Granth was being written its copies were made. We have here two digitized copies of dasam Granth manuscripts written in 1697 and 1698. WBA: The actual 'works where written by Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji -was it called 'Dasam Granth' at that time also? Did Guru Ji call his works Dasam Granth at that time ? There is mention of Dasam Banis in various rehtanams written By Bhai nanad lal ji, Daya singh ,Chaupa singh etc. WBA: -why where these specifically included (ie. works by Bhai Nanad Lal Ji, et al) and by whom ? what gave them the right to include this ? was this after the death of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji? There is internal evidence in dasam Granth itself that it is written by one writer There are dates of completion of various compositions along the place where these were written. That is the raeson these heretics are not engaging in a dialogue with Akal takhat as they are liars and will be caught. 4) http://www.sgpc.net/rehat_maryada/section_..._chap_five.html Article 1 v. The utterances and teachings of the ten Gurus and article 6 c) In the congragation, Kirtan only of Gurbani (Guru Granth's or Guru Gobind Singh's hymns) and, for its elaboration, of the compositions of Bhai Gurdas and Bhai Nand Lal, may be performed.

Yes our parents do work and can afford the internet .. the same way we also work and can afford to pay our own bills. Very very lame attempt try something better next time. If you could really give us a slap then please by all means dont hold back. On one hand your opposing our peaceful means of stopping what we percieve to be anti-gurmat parchar and on the other your saying you could slap us for our beliefs and for our stance!?!? Maybe we should forget trying to cancel the progs and just give the prof a big slap as well ... taking a leaf out of your book. Let them do their pitch?!? They are not selling some new product that they need to pitch to us!! They are questioning the very minimum that keeps the panth together, the nitnem banis!! The prof has been challeneged in india and other places. See the videos above! He even signed to say he would be quiet lol!! Chal you ring the gurdwaras as well then and make sure you turn up on the day to slap all the singhs that think these programmes shouldnt happen. Since you also seem new to the internet (perhaps you have only just been able to scrape enough money to pay for the internet ...) ill introduce you to a new concept as well. INTERNET WARRIOR. You talking about giving us ALL a slap. Give it a rest. IK GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI MAHARAJH (there are numerous granths - i think you mean ik guru - never mind), IK MARYADA (unless the prof says we shouldnt do the amrit banis thus creating another new so called maryada) IK KHALSA (which me may not be anymore since prof reckons the banis read werent actually the ones that Guru Gobind Singh Ji read) ... hmmmmm Ak-47, the 'slap' word was used as a figure of speech (rhetorical point) to mean calm down and stop cussing like kids -which clearly you have proved in your last post ! And yes I meant IK GRANTH, IK MARYADA, IK KHALSA So have you read the Dasam Granth oh wise learned scholar, intellect and Sikh technocrat? Your humble, lack of Sikh knowledge and wit, WBA

[ Inder Singh Ji I am in no position to counter your research, I thank you for your speedy response. Whilst I have not read the Dasam Granth and you have, may i ask with respect: 1. Why did the Gurus themselves not place those works/ efforts into the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji themselves. Why after several years after the death of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji was it compiled -what gave them that right to compile on behalf of the Sikh Panth? 2. Is Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji the highest and only Guru of the Sikh Panth -if it is, then how does the Dasam Granth fit in? 3. How can the authenticity, consistency and seal of approval of Dasam Granth be taken in its current form -what measures through history and what entities can confirm this? 4. Where specifically in the Maryada of the Akal Takht (page number/ paragraph, etc) does it say we should follow the teachings of Dasam Granth? Thank you and regards.

Have you read book "open scerets " written by ex Indian intelligence chief MK dhar about sikh militancy in 1980s. Darshan's name is there.Go and read that. Has it ever occured to you that MK Dhar may be 'playing his readership against Darshan' -after all he is ex Indian intel ! As impressionable, IT literate individuals we should not beleive everything me read verbautim. We have an ideal opportunity to ask these questions -once and for all to the actual authors (Darshan, Gulshan) and get their response. I urge the managing committees of these Gurdwarae who will host these programmes: 1. Darshan and Gulshan are intellects (like it or not) and controversial 2. Make sure strong security is setup and have zero-policy for any trouble makers 3. Questions should be rooted to the mangement committee to present to these scholars so they may respond 4. These events should be recorded and distributed. Let it be known the questions and answers given and these scholars views 5. This approach will be the only way their works will be accepted or challenged 6. Everything else is futile and just a childrens pantomine cussing match ! 7. DO NOT CANCEL THESE PROGRAMMES.

Bhai sahib ji You are the one who is batting for Gulshan. You should know facts before eulogising him as a great scholar. I have placed the facts about this man who in fact is disciple of kala afghana. If he has no respect for sikh Gurus i have no manners for him. Bhai sahib Inder Singh Ji, I bat for no one other than Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. My humble point is to let the man speak and challenge him. Some advice, as a Sikh you must have manners even for your enemy ! Bal chuk maaf carnie. WJKK WJKF

Sikhlionz: 'Darshan is probably doing it to help future generations of his family financially whilst settling old scores with enemies in the process' Your proof is where ? How much is he getting at these programmes -can you be sure ? Conjecture Sikhlionz. Pure conjecture.

The statement of first singh is 100 percent correct. This Gulshan is a heretic. He had applied for the post of Head Granthi of harmandir sahib twice. Was rejected twice because of his nastic views and anti dasam Granth stance. The post of head granthi of Harmandir sahib requires per written rules that aspirant should have thorough knowledge of Dasam granth apart from SGGS ji, Bahi gurdas vaars and Bhai nand lal compositions. Gulshan does not believe in DASAM GRANTH. Why does he apply for that post again and again. Have you any answer for that? First priority first. First Darshan singh needs to be tackled and then we go for other nindaks and Gulshan is certainly one of those. Well ask him ! I am not his spokesperson. Really, make the time go down and ask him (with manners). Why the hell dont u people make me the jathedaar of Akal Takht. I can sort out Darshan and Gulshan in no time. :gatka-singhni: Well done another high achieving intellect making his views known ! These celebrations should raise our awareness -these guys (like it or not) are iconic albeit controversial. Go to these programmes. Dont get them banned/ disturb the peace. ASK THEM ! VACHAAAAROOOO ! Bal chuk maaf carnie (as always).

The statement of first singh is 100 percent correct. This Gulshan is a heretic. He had applied for the post of Head Granthi of harmandir sahib twice. Was rejected twice because of his nastic views and anti dasam Granth stance. The post of head granthi of Harmandir sahib requires per written rules that aspirant should have thorough knowledge of Dasam granth apart from SGGS ji, Bahi gurdas vaars and Bhai nand lal compositions. Gulshan does not believe in DASAM GRANTH. Why does he apply for that post again and again. Have you any answer for that? First priority first. First Darshan singh needs to be tackled and then we go for other nindaks and Gulshan is certainly one of those. Well ask him ! I am not his spokesperson. Really, make the time go down and ask him (with manners).

CHILDREN, Well done your parents work and can afford the Internet for you ! I read this post with disgust. You are 'supposed' to be my brothers and sisters. I could really give you all a mighty Singh slap. No one is a kala-afgana unless the Akal Takht says so ! No one is anti-Gurmat unless the Akal Takht says so. Just because people dont agree with your personal views and intrepretation of Sikhi does not make them wrong. Listen, reseach and debate with reason. How many of you have actually read/ researched the Dasam Granth ? Until then keep shut and let learned scholars do their pitch -in fact go down to these programmes and reason with them (with manners). Gurdwarae should host programmes to raise Sikhi awareness. Well done to all the Gurdwaras and their managing committees who dont follow the weak. Look forward to the programmes. IK GRANTH, IK MARYADA, IK KHALSA

:nishaan_sahib_right: No the above response is anti-Panthic ! This programme must go ahead. Gulshan is an eminent scholar. Just because his research does not align with your vast and superior knowledge does not mean he cannot air his views in a sensible and Gurmat manner. GNP is a solid Gurdwara where Sikhi parchaar is of the highest order -other Gurdwara Sahibs in that area need to follow. Well done to the managing committee for organising this programme. Sikhs should be able to debate their points with manners. The managing committee should arrange for extra security and ensure this does turn into a slanging match -remember we will be in the presence of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Remember Gulshan is a neo-intellect on Sikhi. Many of the sangat are following Dera type individuals and reading weak Sikh litretautre (like this website -I know, me included !). Gulshan has no agenda, he is as Gurmat as they come. The fool who placed this post should really stop living in a bubble and 1. Reseach the Dasam Granth and 2. Read the Maryada of the Akal Takht ! Look forward to the programme. IK GRANTH, IK MARYADA, IK KHALSA