randip singh

spot on!! For Jarnail Singh the title SINGH was enough...........from our tenth master.....can't be more praised than that!!!! As for modern day "Sants".....all I have met are fakes....bar this one: http://www.pingalwara.com/ .....not to be confused with the constructor of huge temples on Soho Road. Regards

Ahh the road to becoming a Sant is a long and tortuos one my friend, and you must follow these steps: 1) Fail all your exams at school and not have any skills to do any sort of work. 2) Be incredibly lazy and expect the government to give you handouts. 3) When Government handouts run out, and your money for alcohol, betting and dirty magazines runs out, grow and enormously long beard. 4) Sit in a Gurudwara all day long and hopefully some gulible people will start thinking you must be incredibly holy. 5) Get the gullible people to start donating money to you to build a temple. 6) Once the temple is built start trying to consolidate your Sant Business by making rules more stricter than neighbouring Sants. For example if neighbouring Sant says you must not eat onions, you say don't eat anything extracted from the soil. 7) Sit back and enjoy the earnings of your ill gotten gains and get a few cronies around you to set up more temples elsewhere to increase income. PART 2 OF HOW TO BE A SANT WILL COME LATER. Part 2 How To Be A Sant 8) Now that you have fooled enough people in Punjab, time to get abroad. Get a few mugs (preferably from Leeds), to set up Sant Centre's for you in th UK. 9) Let these Mug's spread the word to other Mug's in Pug's, who set up centre's in Birmingham and London. 10 ) Set up international bank accounts and dummy charities to syphon off money to your private offshore account in the Bahama's. 11) Build enormous building higher than the next Sant (despite the fact that Harmandit Sahib is built at the lowest point and is the lowest building in Amrisar and shows humility). 12) Watch your brainwashed Mug's in Pugh's run around causing havoc in other temples and on websites. 13) Teach these Mug's in Pugh's one or two line's from Bani (equivalent to all you know), and get them to repeat these like parots in an Islamic Madrasa. 14) Get The Mug's to misquote Bani and mistranslate it to suit your Sant agenda. 15) Cause massive riftes in the Sikh community. 16) Laugh to yourself, that your job as GOI Agent has worked.

don't get upset skeltor .....not everyone's a mug!!!

Ahh the road to becoming a Sant is a long and tortuos one my friend, and you must follow these steps: 1) Fail all your exams at school and not have any skills to do any sort of work. 2) Be incredibly lazy and expect the government to give you handouts. 3) When Government handouts run out, and your money for alcohol, betting and dirty magazines runs out, grow and enormously long beard. 4) Sit in a Gurudwara all day long and hopefully some gulible people will start thinking you must be incredibly holy. 5) Get the gullible people to start donating money to you to build a temple. 6) Once the temple is built start trying to consolidate your Sant Business by making rules more stricter than neighbouring Sants. For example if neighbouring Sant says you must not eat onions, you say don't eat anything extracted from the soil. 7) Sit back and enjoy the earnings of your ill gotten gains and get a few cronies around you to set up more temples elsewhere to increase income. PART 2 OF HOW TO BE A SANT WILL COME LATER.

My thinking is that it is an OBSESSION with sex. It is not the normal sex drive that we as humans have been created with. It is something that is abnormal. It is something that clouds your judgement and prevents people from making rational decisions.

Well Enemy (opposite of friend)...............firstly use a more civiilised tone. Secondly stop talking like a pimp from the ghetto. Thirdly learn to read, and see who commissioned the report (it was not some one who talks like a gangster rapper). Fourthly continue to bury your head in the sand and ignore the links between idiotic male chauvanistic Punjabi traditions and Femal Foeticide. Fifthly try and argue in a coherent logical manner rather than the planground chat of a 4 year old .......Depepartment of Women and Child Development, Ministry of Human Resouce Development, Governement of Punjab State Human Rights Commisssion I would say is more reliable than a kid on the internet. Lastly I can use whatever I see fit to support an argument (if in is Bani so be it), you cannot stop me. Best Wishes.

The blow link seems to suggest otherwise friend. Maybe you should read it. http://nrcw.nic.in/shared/report/81.pdf - Identifying and Controlling Female Foetecide and Infanticide in Punjab

Thats not what the debate is here friend. the debate is whether such festivals as Lohri which celebrate the male child contribute to female infanticide. The report published above seems to suggest so.

I say put em in a ring.......boxing gloves......lastman standing...

Hi Dancing warrior, I am not scrambling at all.....on the contrary, you challenged me to produce evidence and I have........... the second paper which I quoted above and post here again: http://nrcw.nic.in/shared/report/81.pdf - Identifying and Controlling Female Foetecide and Infanticide in Punjab You stated : I say it is not.This paper (and other articles) convinced me that such medieval festivals must be boycotted that promote Sexism. So far I have heard no evidence from you? Produce one article that condradicts this and I may start changing my mind. Until then I say boycott Lohri.....until the donkeys start realising that the birth of all children should be celebtrated and not just males. Best Wishes

Being attached to animals is just another form Moh. Get over it. Your parents seem to have the right attitude, and not to get attached to animals in that way. An animal is just like a plant or other non-human life form.

Get a hobby and go to school, Hmm MR warrior I can now see why you were thinking I had some sort of fanatical motive. To the original poster - Militant Singh..............mate surely you must have better things to than searching the net for Beadbedi?

No friend....your prejudiced mind has painted me as a fanatical fools. You cannot understand two basic points: 1) I believe in democratic values - euality, freedom , justice for all. 2) From what I have read in Sikhism, the values seem to back democratic values up. To reafirm my point....Indian authorities seem to agree with me: http://www.tribuneindia.com/2004/20040113/ldh1.htm I still believe we should definitely boycott Lohri (not ban it), until such time donkey headed people who think that the celebration of boy births take precedence over girls.Also this paper : http://nrcw.nic.in/shared/report/81.pdf - Identifying and Controlling Female Foetecide and Infanticide in Punjab has identified Lohri as a catalyst in this. The authorites want to dicourage such things too. The ball is in your court Dancing Warrior.....you may wish to live in a sugar coated world where all Punjabi rituals are purer that purer.....but I don't. Regards

You asked for my rationale and I gave it....and now you have ignored it. Great job mate !! if you dont agree just say so....no need to be drama queen dear. You asked me about why I despised it today......I don't really care what it was yesterday....but what it is TODAY. See above. So you are saying that female infanticide in Punjab is a delusion? The boy to girl ratio is a delusion? Festivals such as this do not contribute to the myth that boys are better? What uis your rationale....no empty statements please....I have made a case you make yours. But burning witches at the stake was part of the culture here.....it is now gone? Not all culture is good mate. No friend......do not paint me to be a fanatic or a fool. I know my history, and I am fully conversent in Punjab in terms of cultural, sociological and other practices. This "festival" and other customs which are intergral in Punjabi society perpetuate the myth that the male is superior............this in term contributes to female infanticide. Too bad you cannot see that or maybe you are not familiar with Punjabi Cultural practices?

Brother....people may agree or disagree on the meat egg vege debate....but one thing we are all UNited on is GO ORGANIC!!! Brother...why bother eating packaged processed rubbish when you can get fresh vegetables and things from farms direct. http://www.organicdelivery.co.uk/shopfront/shopfront.php

True my friend, but unless we raise our communities awareness that such festivals that celebrate the birth of boys have a negative impact in the Punjabi culture and society then things will carry on the way they are. Surely that cannot be right?

Understanding Gurbani is essentiial.....otherwise we Sikhs become like those brainwashed kids in Madrasas where the Koran is not understood but recited parrot fashion. Read it in English .....but always try and learn the Gurmukhi word.....get a Gurmikhi to English dictionary.

My premise is based on the fact and recent news article (on female infanticide), that Punjabi Culture values the birth of a boy more than a girl. This "festival" is part of that "Punjabi Culture". What Has Lohri Got To Do With THis? 1) It is specifically celebated by those who have had the birth of a baby boy. Never by those who have had a girl (of late some have celebrated for a girl as a gesture of defiance, this however has been for the main been ridiculed). 2) The festival itself consists of listing a fire and various symbols that represent fertility, the white radish representing the phalic symbol. All to represent the male as being the creator and superior. 3) My Observation - women with only baby girls are bullied, cajoled into going to the event and more often than not humiliated by women who have had baby boys. As for being a minority, my Western education has taught me how wrong such festivals are. Just as burning witches at the stake was banned by western civilisation, so will such idiotic rituals which demean the status of women. So no, I do not live in Whitewaistan but in England, democratic country. As a belever in democracy I will exercise my right to protest, boycott, and inform. The fact the Sikh religion recognises such inequality and idiotic Punjabi culture has not recognised this further adds impetus to why this needs to be stopped. You may wish to live in a medieval society warrior but I do not. Best Wishes

Actually the problem with Sikh's are they are to concerned with issue's like so called Beadbedi and idiotic plays like Behzhti. I said in the post: I think this festival contributes to female infanticide, and encourages people to abort females and favour sons. The premise of this festival is to celebrate the birth of sons. Thre is no female equivalent to this festival. Now if I am a "num nut" for wanting to stop a festival which propagates the myth that the male gender is superrior to the female, then I will gladly be called that. I think the problem with people like you is that everytime to see someone quoting Bani you see a fanatic.............far from it.....we are talking about human rights and particulalrly the rights of women. I feel saddened that people who claim to be part of the so called "liberal clique" seem only to pick up on the one aspect (a bit like the reporters on the Behzti affair) when they see a Sikh saying boycott something. They do not see the deeper aspects to anything a Sikh may have to say because they are prejudiced. News flash for you....we care about justice, politics, health, welfare, education and more. I'm glad you called me "num nuts" because it demontrates how people like you do not see such a serious issue as worthy of any attention. Regards. ps well at least you have one fan....Bundha ...therefore you must be right.

I think this festival contributes to female infanticide, and encourages people to abort females and favour sons. The premise of this festival is to celebrate the birth of sons. Thre is no female equivalent to this festival. I say that young Sikh's up and down the country in Gurudwara's to boycott Lohri. Put posters up in Gurudwara's, and make speaches....keeep it peaceful and educate people about it. Guru Nanak said Page 473 Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji: मः १ ॥ mehlaa 1. First Mehl: ਭੰਡਿ ਜੰਮੀਐ ਭੰਡਿ ਨਿੰਮੀਐ ਭੰਡਿ ਮੰਗਣੁ ਵੀਆਹੁ ॥ भंडि जमीऐ भंडि निमीऐ भंडि मंगणु वीआहु ॥ bhand jammee-ai bhand nimmee-ai bhand mangan vee-aahu. From woman, man is born; within woman, man is conceived; to woman he is engaged and married. ਭੰਡਹੁ ਹੋਵੈ ਦੋਸਤੀ ਭੰਡਹੁ ਚਲੈ ਰਾਹੁ ॥ भंडहु होवै दोसती भंडहु चलै राहु ॥ bhandahu hovai dostee bhandahu chalai raahu. Woman becomes his friend; through woman, the future generations come. ਭੰਡੁ ਮੁਆ ਭੰਡੁ ਭਾਲੀਐ ਭੰਡਿ ਹੋਵੈ ਬੰਧਾਨੁ ॥ भंडु मुआ भंडु भालीऐ भंडि होवै बंधानु ॥ bhand mu-aa bhand bhaalee-ai bhand hovai banDhaan. When his woman dies, he seeks another woman; to woman he is bound. ਸੋ ਕਿਉ ਮੰਦਾ ਆਖੀਐ ਜਿਤੁ ਜੰਮਹਿ ਰਾਜਾਨ ॥ सो किउ मंदा आखीऐ जितु जमहि राजान ॥ so ki-o mandaa aakhee-ai jit jameh raajaan. So why call her bad? From her, kings are born. ਭੰਡਹੁ ਹੀ ਭੰਡੁ ਊਪਜੈ ਭੰਡੈ ਬਾਝੁ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥ भंडहु ही भंडु ऊपजै भंडै बाझु न कोइ ॥ bhandahu hee bhand oopjai bhandai baajh na ko-ay. From woman, woman is born; without woman, there would be no one at all. ਨਾਨਕ ਭੰਡੈ ਬਾਹਰਾ ਏਕੋ ਸਚਾ ਸੋਇ ॥ नानक भंडै बाहरा एको सचा सोइ ॥ naanak bhandai baahraa ayko sachaa so-ay. O Nanak, only the True Lord is without a woman. ਜਿਤੁ ਮੁਖਿ ਸਦਾ ਸਾਲਾਹੀਐ ਭਾਗਾ ਰਤੀ ਚਾਰਿ ॥ जितु मुखि सदा सालाहीऐ भागा रती चारि ॥ jit mukh sadaa salaahee-ai bhaagaa ratee chaar. That mouth which praises the Lord continually is blessed and beautiful. ਨਾਨਕ ਤੇ ਮੁਖ ਊਜਲੇ ਤਿਤੁ ਸਚੈ ਦਰਬਾਰਿ ॥੨॥ नानक ते मुख ऊजले तितु सचै दरबारि ॥२॥ naanak tay mukh oojlay <admin-profanity filter activated> sachai darbaar. ||2|| O Nanak, those faces shall be radiant in the Court of the True Lord. ||2|| SO WHY STILL DO WE CELEBRATE WHEN A BOY IS BORN AT LOHRI A COMISERATE WHEN A GIRL IS BORN!! Boycott Lohri NOW!!!

Hi all just been looking at some discussions and found the same or similar one here: http://www.sikh-history.com/cgi-bin/Ultima...ic;f=1;t=002049

Why Lohri Annoy's Me!!! 1) Sexism - This festival is blatant sexism, it celebrates ONLY the birth of a boy. Reiforces stereotype that people should have boys. 2) Insensitive - Causes peer pressure on women who do not have boy's or cannot have children. Comment's are often made at such event as "I hope God will bless you with a boy"........and to one childless couple "I hope you will have a child soon". 3) Sikh Relevance - what has this to do with Sikhism? Nothing. 4) Excuse to Drink - Most Lohri I have witnessed is just an excuse for proplr to drink (not that we need one). 5) Malice - some people use Lohri in a malicious manner to belittle others (usually without boys). The Good Point's of Lohri 1) Cultural - Reminds us of a cultural heritage rior to Sikhism. 2) Enjoyment - Most people seem to enjoy themselves. 3) Historical - there are historical event's that are linked to Sikhism (that have been pointed out by others) involving Lohri.

Well we wouldn't have this problem if we didn't have so many cults/secys AKJ/DD/GNNSJ/Namdhari/Narankari etc etc..........if everyone just called themself Sikh and respected each other then we wouldn't have this. Sounds very simplistic.....I know....but we cannot agree on fundementals like keski/kesh/meat/paath etc etc.....what chance have we got?

ਬਸੰਤੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੯ ॥ बसंतु महला ९ ॥ basant mehlaa 9. Basant, Ninth Mehl: ਮਨ ਕਹਾ ਬਿਸਾਰਿਓ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੁ ॥ मन कहा बिसारिओ राम नामु ॥ man kahaa bisaari-o raam naam. O my mind, how can you forget the Lord's Name? ਤਨੁ ਬਿਨਸੈ ਜਮ ਸਿਉ ਪਰੈ ਕਾਮੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ तनु बिनसै जम सिउ परै कामु ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ tan binsai jam si-o parai kaam. ||1|| rahaa-o. When the body perishes, you shall have to deal with the Messenger of Death. ||1||Pause|| ਇਹੁ ਜਗੁ ਧੂਏ ਕਾ ਪਹਾਰ ॥ इहु जगु धूए का पहार ॥ ih jag Dhoo-ay kaa pahaar. This world is just a hill of smoke. ਤੈ ਸਾਚਾ ਮਾਨਿਆ ਕਿਹ ਬਿਚਾਰਿ ॥੧॥ तै साचा मानिआ किह बिचारि ॥१॥ tai saachaa maani-aa kih bichaar. ||1|| What makes you think that it is real? ||1|| ਧਨੁ ਦਾਰਾ ਸੰਪਤਿ ਗ੍ਰੇਹ ॥ धनु दारा स्मपति ग्रेह ॥ Dhan daaraa sampat garayh. Wealth, spouse, property and household- ਕਛੁ ਸੰਗਿ ਨ ਚਾਲੈ ਸਮਝ ਲੇਹ ॥੨॥ कछु संगि न चालै समझ लेह ॥२॥ kachh sang na chaalai samajh layh. ||2|| none of them shall go along with you; you must know that this is true! ||2|| ਇਕ ਭਗਤਿ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ ਹੋਇ ਸੰਗਿ ॥ इक भगति नाराइन होइ संगि ॥ ik bhagat naaraa-in ho-ay sang. Only devotion to the Lord shall go with you. ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਭਜੁ ਤਿਹ ਏਕ ਰੰਗਿ ॥੩॥੪॥ कहु नानक भजु तिह एक रंगि ॥३॥४॥ kaho naanak bhaj tih ayk rang. ||3||4|| Says Nanak, vibrate and meditate on the Lord with single-minded love. ||3||4|| My own opinion is that the Angel of death is a metaphor (I don't think it is a physical being). So when death takes us can you face it with a clear concious? Also I recommend read the Angs prior to this and after this, they are real eye openers. PS Like I said, if it helps you to understand death as a physical being then thats fine..........my opinion is that none of these so called demi-god or angel type things exist. In Bani they are a metaphor. Picture this.......you go to an Island where the natives have no concept of electricity...you can't produce it there......how would you describe it? In the same way we cannot comprehend many concepts (such as death), so Guru's had to use concepts we could picture.

Absolutely Brilliant response....coudn't agree with you more!!!!! :e: :T: