randip singh

Is that the only argument you use for everything. nice one bro! Actually no mate. My essay at the link below is the reply to the IDIOTS that argue over vegetarianism and meat eating. My view is meat should not be mate in Gurudwara's, because it would exclude some people (vegetarians), from participating in Langaar. As well as other denominations that prepare meat in other way. Apart from that I am tired of Sant Mat nonsense posted here, because these Sant Mat Dogma merchants a creating Manmat by taking one or two lines from Bani to promote their agenda. You don't wanna eat....fair enough....you do fair enough..............but don't make Bani into a cheap a la carte menu to back up your point!!!!

More Sant Mat Nonsense !! *Boring* *Yawn*

Interesting point.......I don't think moving out is gainst Sikhi......I ahd the same connundrum when I was forced to move away from home first, to go to Uni, and then secondly for work. Me and my wife still live by ourselves, but our goal is to by a converted home (or convert one), with a Granny Flat for my parents.......I want to do the right thing by them. On both occaisions I moved out to better myself so eventually I would be an asset to may parents rather than a burden. I must say though at the time my parents were not happy........but now they see the reason why. I often used to say to my father, my Grandfather moved thousands of miles away from his parents to better himself, a few hundred miles is really not a lot. :D

In the sense we are all searchers for Truth....yes.............but as an organised religion I would say No. Are we not all learners or Sikh?

Have you any idea how many regional variations there are in pronounciation just in Punjab.........forget India.......maybe that answers yourquestion? Look for the meaning in the entire shabad like I said.

If it takes another person a lifetime then who are you to judge them? The world does not move to the beat of your drum....that is pure Hankaar and Krodh!!

This is pure folly. Whether the Guru ate it or not would not have been documented because they considered this issue so irrelevant. It is only the onset of Hindu Vaishnav's that converted to Sikhism in the late 19th Century in the late 19th Century that have made this such a controversial issue.............organisation and leaders of organisation of various Sant Mat and Dera's have links to such Hindu Vaishnav organisations.

lol this isnt really a point but why would god rain down bread and not meat......????? just a small question, o n why did jesus break bread and not CHICKEN LEGS haha lol.Jesus also drank WINEEEEE!!!! so is anyone who takes these quotes seriously gna say WINES OK TO DRINK NOW ASWELL BECAUSE JESUS DRANK IT???? or are u gna follow our gurus who told us to respect but not take heed of the teachings of other religions except their main aim, the worship of the divine one! again, WHO CARESSSSSSSS??? HALAL is banned in sikhism, therefore all other lectures of mohammod are not to be followed!!! sooo, so far, ALCOHOL and HALAL. 2 of the five evils! doesnt matter even if ur tryin to prove a point, this crap shouldnt have been added on the posts, it can confuse people who dont know much else about these religions....... LOLL and therefore a DISEASED or very very raree piece of meat, u cant get this type of meat from ANYWHEREEE..... unless u go to the african desert n pick up a dead zebra while on a safari holiday, but even then what are the chances it isnt already half decomposed, disese ridden or been picked at and infected by dirty scavengers......I know a point was tryna b proven that other religions do in fact approve of meat consumption, but even if they do, it doesnt matter cos their other ideals clash with Sikhi, which is most people heres accepted way of life.... no offence meant to anyone in particular...... :D Sikh....are you sure you can read or are doing Law? :D The question here was whether people can reach spirituality and eat meat.....Pawinder claimed no one can....I pointed out other religious figures had.....he said they never ate meat. I pointed out clearly and concisely that figures such as Moses, Buddha, Mohammed and Jesus clearly had and the ate it..............so to make statements that under no circumstance can a person who eats meat reach spirituality is a falsehood.............when these figues had. Again try reading before answering what the question was in the first place. PS To ridicule religious figures from other faith is un-sikh.

I cannot believe what I am reading. Oi Sikho when are you going to stop dismembeing the Angs of Bani. One some pages we have people quoting one line (thus perverting the entire meaning of the line and the shabad), and here we have people arguing over one word????!!! Read the entire shabad, and the meaning will become clear. STOP DISMEMBERING BANI!! PS is this Jaswinder Singh the fellow who's articles that are so popular on Hindunet etc?

Hell is seen as a metaphor in Sikhism to describe those who are tormented by the 5 thieves: Kaam = Obsession with Sex Krodh= Obstinacy or Anger Moh = Materialism Lobh = Greed and Obsession with Accumalation Hankaar = Egotism Those who are slaves to this live in a constant Hell.

99% of the Pakhandhi's I have met have been vegetarian..........most are full of it. You really are in no position to judge who I have met and where I met them. The people I interact with are quiet ordinary people, who do not seek to make massive Gurdwara's in Ilford or Soho Road...............they quietly go about their householders existence working for the benefit of humanity. Like true Sikhs they do not seek fame. Among these friends are Jews, Christians, Buddhists, Muslims, Hindu's, Agnostics, and even Pagan's............ I agree Langaar should be vegetarian, but not because of any spurious spiritual reasons, but because it should be open to all. Meat would mean some people would be excluded.

Look friend, I am sorry if I have offended, but Krodh has undone better individuals than you......don't let it cloud your judgement. The statement you mate was absurd because what you are saying would go not only against what Historians say, but the majority of practitioners of Buddhism, Judaism, Christianity and Islam. I didn't want to do this but I will use hard evidence to back up my points.......until you provide evidence I will treat your statement as hearsay and conjecture: The word of God to Moses: http://injil.org/TWOR/35.html (Exod. 16) 11The Lord said to Moses, 12"I have heard the grumbling of the Israelites. Tell them, 'At twilight you will eat meat, and in the morning you will be filled with bread. Then you will know that I am the Lord your God.'" 4Then the Lord said to Moses, "I will rain down bread from heaven for you. The people are to go out each day and gather enough for that day. In this way I will test them and see whether they will follow my instructions. The word of Mohammed and the Quran: http://www.submission.org/halal-meat.html "He only prohibits for you the eating of animals that die of themselves (without human interference), blood, the meat of pigs, and animals dedicated to other than GOD. If one is forced (to eat these), without being malicious or deliberate, he incurs no sin. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful." [2:173] The Diet of Jesus: from the Bible http://www.lavistachurchofchrist.org/LVart...esusEatMeat.htm So Jesus said* to them, "Children, you do not have any fish, do you?" They answered Him, "No." 6And He said to them, "Cast the net on the right-hand side of the boat and you will find a catch." So they cast, and then they were not able to haul it in because of the great number of fish. . . . So when they got out on the land, they saw* a charcoal fire already laid and fish placed on it, and bread. 10Jesus said* to them, "Bring some of the fish which you have now caught." 11Simon Peter went up and drew the net to land, full of large fish, a hundred and fifty-three; and although there were so many, the net was not torn. 12Jesus said* to them, "Come and have breakfast." None of the disciples ventured to question Him, "Who are You?" knowing that it was the Lord. 13Jesus came* and took* the bread and gave* it to them, and the fish likewise. (John 21:5-6, 9-14) From the Teachings of Buddha: "Now at the time many Niganthas (Jain monks), waving their arms, were moaning from carriage road to carriage road, from cross road to cross road in the city: 'Today a fat beast, killed by Siha the general, is made into a meal for the recluse Gotama (the Buddha), the recluse Gotama makes use of this meat knowing that it was killed on purpose for him, that the deed was done for his sake'..." [1]. and "Monks, I allow you fish and meat that are quite pure in three respects: if they are not seen, heard or suspected to have been killed on purpose for a monk. But, you should not knowingly make use of meat killed on purpose for you." [2] The followers of these faiths would disagree with you too, because what you are saying is that the followers of these faiths are wrong? That sounds incredibly Egotistical does it not? It is quite something to say OK," I don't believe I can achieve spiritual enlightenment by eating meat", but to claim leaders of other faiths never ate meat because they achieved spiritual enlightenment is something else. What is evident here is evidence of Krodh (stubbornness)..........wanting everyone else to move to the same beat of the drum. This in itself is linked to Egotism or Hankaar. Combined these two cause incredible pain and damage to the soul.

Don't blame you, its all Sant Mat nonsense.

OMG sorry.....my stomach is hurting from laughing. :D This has to be one of the funniest things I have read. But seriously.........Friend I seriously you suggest you study these religious figures before making such statements.........its does not make you look very intellingent.

Cold pressed is oil extracted mechnically rather than through heat. When oil is extracted through eat its molecular form is changed..........it becomes harder for the boddy to digest. In its natural state (cold pressed), it is easier for the body to digest....even if used for frying once.

I'm in my 30's now...........since i was 16.....but I have always exercised since I can remember. I got a sciatic problem at the moment so have problems exercising.

I used to use Mil Egg protein, but now I use no powders. I used to take the full range of Amino's. I eat meat so I tend to get the full range of Amino's.....my friend who is vege take's Creatine (which you only get from meat) as a supplement. I cannot stress the need for fresh food.....if you are vege or non-vege.............eat ORGANIC!! Eat fresh steamed vegetables. Fresh fruit. Drink Milk. Eat Eggs (if you are non Vege), white meat and fish and a moderate amount of red meat (again if you are non-Vege). If you eat dhal sabjee, make sure it is not made in ghee or vegetable oil. Make sure all oil used is COLD PRESSED. Do this and you may come close to squatting 200 kilo's (just like me).... :D .

I have read it thanks........in fact when it comes to metaphors used by Bhagat Kabir, I probably have argued long and hard over the metaphors used by him. Many people on this forum take them literally. The essay compiled "Fools Who Wrangle Over Flesh" touches on these metaphors. I have also read other writings of Kabir. Read page 116 to 117 http://www.globalsikhstudies.net/pdf/sd.pdf It covers the issue of Maya. The trap many Hindu's use is to say Bhagat Bani is identical to Gurbani.....they use this argument to say that Sikhs are in fact Hindu's. Muslims use this argument to say writings of Muslim Saints in Bani means Sikhism is Islam. It is neither. When I say Bhagat Bani, I mean writings of Bhagats not included within Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji also. This trick was tried by Meharban and the Minas to state Bhagat Kabir was higher than Guru Nanak. Guruji ONLY included that aspect of Bhagat Bani which had commonality with Sikh thought..........this is very important point.....or we just become extensions of Bhagat Bani and not a new frame of thought.

Pantheism def: The belief that the universe and god are one and the same: god has no existence independent of the universe, and therefore cannot be its creator. There is no divine purpose, and everything is a component of the greater whole. Pantheism in its pure form is a philosophical concept, and not a religion. Cosmic pantheism and Acosmic pantheism describe attributes of a particular religion. Some religious movements wrongly identify themselves as pantheistic, misinterpreting pantheism as animism. Theism def Theism is the belief in one or more gods or goddesses. More specifically, it may also mean the belief in God, a god, or gods, who is/are actively involved in maintaining the Universe. This secondary meaning is shown in context to other beliefs concerning the divine below. A philosophical system which accepts a transcendent and personal God who not only created but also preserves and governs the world, the contingency of which does not exclude miracles and the exercise of human freedom.* Page 1, Line 1 Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji ik-oNkaar sat naam kartaa purakh nirbha-o nirvair akaal moorat ajoonee saibhaN gur parsaad. One Universal Creator God. The Name Is Truth. Creative Being Personified. No Fear. No Hatred. Image Of The Undying, Beyond Birth, Self-Existent. By Guru's Grace ~ Goin by the above definitions, I would say the author was correct. God is the creator.......he creates life. Not at all. Our Guru's saw an element of good in all faiths, but only took that element of GOOD and illustrated it in Bani that had a commonality with Sikh belief. Another example is Sheikh Farid. His Shabad is in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji.........yet he was a Muslim..............does this mean we become Muslims.....NO..........but we recognise the common values that Islam in this case has with Sikhi. That is why Bani is such a complete teacher.......it takes all modes of religious thought and extracts those elements from them that are common to Sikh belief. That is why we do not put down other faiths.

Ok....put the debate to one side that Guru's ate meat or not......for me it does not matter. You are saying Moses, Jesus, Buddha ( http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/dharmadata/fdd21.htm) and Mohammed had no spirituality? They all ate meat. I find your statement incredible and totally unbelievable. Our Guru's were aware of these Holy men, and hence why they condemed such Hindu Vaishnavite thinking as you have stated above. The debate here is whether to make meat in Gurdwara's or not......I say no despite being a meat eater, and the debate for me has nothing to do with spirituality because I have met far to many spiritual people who are vege and non-vege to convince me diet has no influence on that. The Gurudwara should be open to all. Making meat there will exclude some people. End of Chat!

Sikhi WIki is the WORST!!! It is a Sant Mat site run by an autocratic fool called Hari Singh. AVOID at all costs.

Stalker??? Are you feeling OK? I have been posting on this site since it started. I moderate my own site www.sikh-history.com. Watch you mouth before making such idiotic acciusations. As for the debate.......read my reply from my post before: As for Langaar........I do not believe meat should be served at Langaar - WHY? - Langaar originally as started by Guru Nanak is open too all. If you started including meat, then it would excluded a section of society. Meat eaters tend not to object to vegetarian food wheras vegetarians tend to be (exception being Kurtas), militant in their views about meat. If meat were included there would be debates over Halaal, Kosher, Pork, Beef etc. Therefore, Langaar should be kept vegetarian. Saying that there are some sects that believe Onion and Garlic should be avoided.....so even with vegetarian diet you will get desenters. Try reading before writing........it may help you long term.

whats wrong with it?....I think it sounds really good.

sooo true.......we are turning into Jehadists.............what a shame.

This is the only information that is provided. No details are given as to why these sources are more authentic than Kabir Panthis. According to Meharbaan Janamsakhi Bhagat Ji met Guru Nanak Sahib. Guru Sahib was 38 and Bhagat Ji was 108. Bhagat Ji's bani after becoming Guru wala is included in Guru Granth Sahib. Everything else was rejected. This is included in Bhagat Bani Ithaas by Giani Gurdit Singh. The following picture is from the book. I am still doing research on this topic. Hi, Meharban (the grandson of the 4 th Guru), Sakhi, must be coroborated with other documents......as has been done with some events. The most scholarly work on Kabir's dates is Vaudaville's work. PS Some Points to note: 1) Meharban led the Minas Cult which corrupted Sikh teaching. 2) Guru Arjan condemened the Minas and basic historical contents of the Janamsakhi ...........Sikhs didnt touch it for centuries until Dr Kirpal Singh resureccted it. 3) Meharban introduces the theory that Guru Nanak was an Avtar of King Janak, father in-law of Rama and father of Sita. 4) The Minas wanted the Sikhs to have a Hindu Pantheon. 5) They changed Guru Nanak's place and date of birth 6) Along with the Hindali's they placed Kabir abiove Guru Nanak. 7) Bhai Gurdas condems and criticises Meharban. Read // 36-1 to 36 - 11 where the Minas are condemed and described as "hypocritical" and "spiritless evil persons" 8) Meharban and Prithi Mal insulted the Guru's face to face. 9) Bhai Buddha and Bhai Gurdas ousted the Meharban and the Minas from Amritsar 10) Meharban started calling himself the seventh Guru.....while his sone Harji the 8th. 11) Meharban tried to corrupt Mulmantaar Moral....be careful using Meharban Sakhi.