Shadow

Richard has recently said in a debate that he's an agnostic. Just out of curiosity, do you believe in God because you’re not giving any answers to Ajeet?

Not even Richard himself is even sure about the existence of God. He has said in his book that out of 7 he’s 6.9 sure that God doesn’t exist. Hasn't he? Honestly, you probably just want to keep sticking to your views because you think it makes you feel special or you see it as a badge of honour. But truthfully in sikhi, we’re either a winner or loser in the game of love with God. No one here is forcing you to believe in God. Its better you’re more open about your views but it looks like you’re just here to have a laugh. Sikhi has given a method to find God, that’s supposed to be the game of this life. It wouldn’t be a game if all the answers were there in your face. I’ve said so many times why don’t you try meditating, but it looks like you keep skipping that question. Are you afraid of the truth? Or are you too lazy? Anyway, I thought you might want to read this: http://www.bsrstrust.org/meeting-with-bhagat-singh-release-from-jail/ Its a meeting with Bhagat Singh and Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh when Bhagat Singh was an atheist.

I've heard a lot of his speeches but he has never convinced me. I don't mean to sound rude, but you seem to look up to them like your Guru. A lot of times he’s really rude especially Christopher Hitchens, I can't believe someone would even call them their hero. Wouldn’t you want look to up to Guru Sahib who has a higher purer consciousness with so many good qualities. I’m not saying you can’t question yourself or have these discussions (as I have myself) but by looking at your posts, you seem to be getting too stuck into all this. Truthfully, everything they do is all talk. They spend their lives running around but not once have they spent time inside themselves, meditating to discover God. You should feel blessed to even have this chance to practice sikhi as you possibly can. You have nothing to lose. Sorry if I offended you

I don't think it’s normal for your parents to get you married now or to even think about it when you are still so young. And there is no caste in sikhi so caste shouldn't be an issue. And I'm sorry but this isn't a fairy tale, there is no chance or very little chance for you to find someone who you actually love. In fact you'll put yourself through hell doing all this dating nonsense. Most of the time people wound up divorced even when they think they found the one. Better to stick to arrange marriages. And I don't understand why people make arrange marriages seem so bad, you still have your choice if you want to marry that person, no one will force you and you can still get to know that person. Just focus on more important things in your life right now.

LOL omg, are you trying to say booty or beauty ahah...To OP, I think this says it all.

Also, Christians don't even do simran! :s And I guess to someone like you, breaking your amrit or converting to another faith isn't a big deal. bhu suMnI SIA rwPzI mzhb min Bwxy] bahu su(n)nee sheea raafazee mazehab man bhaanae|| Many people are there of attractive sects of Sunnis, Sias and Rafazis. mulihd hoie munw&kw sB Brim Bulwxy] mulehidh hoe munaakaa sabh bharam bhulaanae|| Many hypocrites becoming atheists and deluded by illusions go on wandering here and there. eIsweI mUsweIAW haumY hYrwxy] eesaaee moosaaeeaaa(n) houmai hairaanae|| Followers of Jesus and Moses are also many who are confounded in their own pride. hoie iPrMgI ArmnI rUmI grbwxy] hoe fira(n)gee aramanee roomee garabaanae|| Inhabitants of the European countries are also trapped in pride. kwlI pos klµdrW drvys dugwxy] kaalee pos kala(n)dharaa(n) dharavaes dhugaanae|| Some are black clad recluses and dervishes wearing bunches of cowaries around their arms who move about here and there. guru isK rom n pujnI gur hit ivkwxy ]11] gur sikh rom n pujanee gur hatt vikaanae ||11|| They all are not equal to even a hair of those Gurskihs who have sold themselves at the hands of the Guru.(11)

Are you looking for an argument because you sound extremely rude! And why are you bringing other faiths into this. We're discussing SIKHI!

I don't think women need to be asked if they are on their period, they would know themselves? I don't think men are asked if they did a number 2, you would assume they understand the whole system. I've seen women take part in akhand paaths at gurdwara, so nothing has to be changed. I think it matters more about what knowledge you impart to the youth because they are our future. Most elderly nowadays are stuck into alot of manmat things like caste, so of course they would lack equality and understanding!

Women are not on their periods 24/7, so that reason is not good enough and you shouldn't believe everything you hear. That's not sikhi and sounds completely ridiculous. If you were a female, you'd feel a lot differently about this.

Conciousness, A lot of people will disagree with your thinking. We just don't waste our time in these petty arguments. I understood your posts and I personally believe your view is distorted as you have so much disrespect for guru sahib and sikhi that you don't even know it! I honestly do not understand why people like you are even sikhs. Of course every path leads to Vaheguru, but everyone has to go through Sat-guru (the true guru of all ages) to do union with Vaheguru (true liberation) whether it is here or the hereafter. If this wasn't true, then there would be no need to for amrit. Instead every sikh will only have to follow the path of sikhi without amrit. However, guru sahib has made it crystal clear we have to take amrit. Also, I'm not sure if you have read dasam granth, but it clearly states everyone before Guru Nanak Dev Ji was under death. suir nr muin jn AMimRqu Kojdy su AMimRqu gur qy pwieAw ] sur nar mun jan a(n)mrith khojadhae s a(n)mrith gur thae paaeiaa || The angelic beings and the silent sages search for the Ambrosial Nectar; this Amrit is obtained from the Guru. Believe me, I could say a lot more, I’m just not bothered.

1) Yes, that’s correct. We believe God is formless and within us which is why we meditate on God’s name to merge with our origin. gur purakhai purakh milaae prabh mil surathee surath samaanee || The Guru, the Primal Being, has united me with the Primal Lord God. My consciousness has merged into the supreme consciousness. 2) Yes that’s our aim of life. We believe we still have our own soul but the light of God merges in us, so we become God. aapae mael vishhu(n)niaa sach vaddiaaee dhaee ||4|| God unites the separated ones with Himself again, and blesses them with true greatness. ||4|| 3) Yes prabh rav rehiaa bharapooree || God is totally pervading and permeating everywhere. 4) We believe Guru Ji is God. The Guru’s did perform miracles but it was never for selfish reasons. hodhai thaan nithaaneeaa rehehi nimaananeeaah || They remain powerless, even while they have power; they remain humble and meek. AND naanak guramukh har naam man vasai eaehaa sidhh eaehaa karamaath ||2|| O Nanak, the Lord's Name abides in the mind of the Gurmukh; this is spirituality, and this is miraculous power. ||2|| Sikhs meditate on God’s name so we experience the truth of Gurbani. guramukh naam dhhiaaeeai mathh thath kadtolai || The Gurmukh meditates on the Naam, the Name of the Lord; he churns, and obtains the essence of reality. AND sehaj samaadhh lagee liv a(n)thar so ras soee jaanaijeeo ||1|| I am intuitively absorbed in the state of Samaadhi deep within. God alone knows this sweet pleasure. ||1||

I watch these debates all the time because I enjoy them but they don't bother me. Why? Because sikhi isn't about proving anything to anyone. Sikhi is about experience and we experience Vaheguru through Naam Abhiyaas. People don't understand the existence of God because they have never meditated and have become spiritually blind. I also like Prof Dawkins but not Christopher hitchens, I found him too arrogant and rude. I firmly believe in Science and it doesn't hinder my belief in God. Science hasn't proven God doesn't exist and neither has it proven God does exist and it never will because something materialistic cannot prove something spiritual. If you have doubts, just do what Gurbani tells you which is to Jap Naam.

I doubt they had PS3 in Sant baba harnaam singh's time like 70 years ago, maybe they had regular playstation, but PS3 only came out like a few years ago. And even if they did, they wouldn't have had any blu-ray discs to play in it Baba harnaam singh was against tv; he said your not a sikh if you watch tv (in those days they used tv as entertainment). Games are exactly the same. Sant narajan singh said God fearing people do not watch movies. Do you know why? Because these are entertainments that sikhs should refrain from. I did not say ps3 and all that rubbish existed in those days. Seems like most sikhs don't know much about gursikhi jeevan, not that I have any knowledge but Guru Sahib blesses his sikh with bibek budh when you jap naam and sing bani from the heart. The sikhs that will argue against this is due to their weakness and attachment. Thank you to Hardeep singh for understanding. p.s. don't ruin this thread please.

"...ps3, xbox the lot..." And what exactly has that got to do with sikhi?? You should call it maya camp instead. I'm not going to say anything after this. I will still hold the same view and opinion that its wrong to be doing those activites at the gurdwara. I think thats going a bit too far. Edited: Gurbani already doesn't agree with entertainments like this and you will be holding these activities at the gurdwara?! Don't you think thats disrespectful? On top of that, I've known that coventry Gurdwara has lareedar saroop prakash. You guys should be ashamed of yourselves. Not only was baba harnaam singh against these sort of entertainements, all mahapurakhs were.

Dhan Guru Nanak. Would you be knowing where i can get his number from? 07800928691

Thats all really. The campers decided to do asa di vaar themselves, it wasn't arranged thats why it wasn't mentioned. Asa di vaar was wikid! Sometimes the singhs and singhiya did keertan during day too.

ermmmm not true! The reason they never had a saachkhand before is because Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh said it is allowed if there is no spare room avaliable. If you came to KC08 you would know that because they explained to the campers why there is no saachkhand. Anyway, Camp was wikid!

1. yes 2. You should take good sangat. If you take bad sangat you will end up becoming like them. 3. Amritvela is the fourth pehar of the night which is between 2 - 6. Amritvela finishes at sunrise. 4. Normally I sleep no later than 10.

For the first time everybody has come to an agreement. I like everyones posts :D lol

Anyone have an online link to this? Heres an online link to dasam granth: www.sridasam.org It doesn't have Chritropakhyaan in the link.

Singh, what is there left to talk about here. A relationship like the one that is being described here is termed as wrong by Guru Sahib and it should be avoid at all cost. The orginal poster can channel the energy in a positive way and recieve something fruitful in her life instead of being stuck in kaam(lust). The parnter she refer's as long term could be 10 years relationship or 50, it still does not matter because they are not married. This whole situation is really simple, but for some reason some endorse making it complicated and difficult to solve. And there is nothing modern about this topic. I believe lust was here since the beginning, nothing hip hop or rock about this whole matter.

Penji, heres one story of a female saint. It is taken from Bhai Sahib Randhir singh's autobiography when he met her: HOLY MOTHER GULAB KAURI went to Haripur to see a very enlightened woman Saint, who had achieved, the state of blessedness. The Sikhs of Haripur who knew me also came to meet me. But I was anxious to see this woman Saint whom people called Mother Gulab Kaur, and the tales of whose supreme renunciation and saintliness had impressed me deeply. It would be proper to write here briefly about the early life of this woman Saint who had achieved the highest spiritual state. She was the first real Saint I met in life. Her story as told to me by a Sikh from Haripur is as follows:Gulab Kaur's husband was a very religious man. The spiritually enlightened husband had a devote and very pious wife in Gulab Kaur. The love and service of her husband was to her, the love and service of God. Like the unseparable Sheldrake and the moon, she could not live apart from her husband even for a moment. According to the wishes of her husband she had memorised the Sukhmani Sahib and Bavan Akhari and she recited these prayers every day. She was however not leading much of a contemplative life. She was too absorbed in the love of her husband. She did not a yet know tile spiritual significance of the divine Name, when her husband died at quite a young age. The death of her husband came as such a blow to her, that she turned her mind away from the world and like a true Sati (she who sacrifices herself alongwith her dead husband), she died to the physical world around her, only to live in spiritual ecstasy of divine silence. The light of God began to shine in her pure soul. The love for her husband gradually changed into an intense love for God in which she became deeply imbued. She was beautiful and quite young. The spiritual grace on her face revealed her radiant soul. It was difficult to look straight into the red, dazzling glow of her face. She renounced the world and left her home. In this fearless state this young Child of Light wandered away, detached and free like a bird. Her mind was always fixed on God and she spent her days in deep meditative mood. She appeared to have lost all her body consciousness. Deeply absorbed in the divine Name, Mother Gulab Kaur moved about with a radiant charm on her face. There are innumerable stories about her saintliness and spiritual powers, which for want of space cannot be related here. Wherever she went, her meditative silence and spiritual beauty attracted people. The streets, the villages or even the forests bloomed with life and with the spirit of reverence, when she was there. She became very well known in Haripur, Hazara and the surrounding areas. She was so deeply absorbed in her meditative moods that she rarely spoke to anyone. In ecstasy he laughsIn ecstasy he weeps.At times he becomes silent.Guru Nanak: // Asa p 473 Such was the spiritual condition of this saintly lady. She became careless about her clothes. All she had was an underwear (kach) and a blanket wrapped around her body. When I expressed my desire to meet her, people said: "She does not allow anyone to come near her. She drives away everyone by throwing stones at them. Out of fear no one goes near her. No one has seen her talking to anyone. Sometimes she is seen mumbling some words in a soliloquy. It is not easy to go near her. If you want to see her from a distance I can show her to you. If you wish to go near her, you may go at your own risk. Otherwise we do not dare to go near her." After saying a short prayer, I set out to meet Mother Gulab Kaur. I came to know that she was sitting in front of a shop which was closed. People showed her to me from the corner of a street. She was sitting with a blanket around her body and her back was towards us. While other people turned back, I moved on nearer her. Even her face was covered with the blanket. As I moved on with reverence and devotion close to her, the Holy Mother through her inner vision, having divined my presence, stood up with electric suddenness, and turning towards me with folded hands, she greeted me with the Khalsa greeting:"Vah-Guru ji ka Khalsa Vah-Guru ji ki Fateh"'The Khalsa is of God Victory unto the Wonderful Lord.'I was deeply moved and the people who looked on were quite surprised. One or two people dared now to come further. Mother Gulab Kaur was still standing with folded hands. In humble adoration I moved forward to touch her feet, but with her lotus like pure hands she prevented me from doing so. She was about to spread her blanket for me to sit, but I begged her not to do so, as a humble person like me could not bear to see such a divine soul like her bestow so unusual a respect and reverence on me, which I did not deserve. "I seek a humble place in the dust of thy feet Holy Mother", said I. I sat near her on the ground leaving the blanket with her. She sat there in a calm meditative mood, and I can still visualise her saintly figure sitting in silent contemplation. The profound impression of her divine personality is deeply engraved in my heart. It is difficult to describe the spiritual influence of the great personality and its cool and thrilling effect on my heart and soul. I felt purified and exalted and my heart began to beat louder with the rhythm of divine Name. There was a spiritual union of our souls and in this mystic silence we conversed with each other. The thought waves emanating from one were understood by the other. What need was there to speak. After sometime the Holy Mother spoke in a melodious voice saying: "I am only a lone traveller. How shall I entertain you? I am just a lone traveller." In a very sweet and musical voice she repeated these words again. Then she suddenly got up, asking me to keep sitting there for a while. She took her blanket and in an intoxicated mood moved towards a fruit shop. She picked up some fruits from the shop, brought them there and offering them to me said: "Accept this humble offering of one who is dedicated to the Lord". I accepted the great Saint's offering of love and felt greatly blessed. Then she said: "May you ever be blessed. All blessings on you, noble Sikh of the Guru. The Guru has indeed lighted a wonderful lamp". In a sublime state of mind she showered blessings and love on me. I begged the Holy Mother to bestow benediction on me and pray that this lamp which had been lighted by the Guru may ever keep on burning. She said: "It will keep on burning with ever increasing light." We were both standing and she now wished me to depart. I asked the Holy Mother, "When may I get a chance to have a glimpse of her divine personality again". To this she replied: "Spiritually united souls never feel any separation. On the physical plane there may not be any meeting but we will meet again in the Presence of the Lord." And then in a tone of blessing she said, "you have now received the divine call to perform Akhand Paths. Go, be blessed, and enjoy spiritual enlightenment. On the way pay homage to the Panja Sahib Gurdwara. These were the few words she spoke in the short meeting between us. I bowed low to touch her feet. There were tears in her eyes. I too was overwhelmed with tears. Placing her hand on my back she blessed me again and helped me to rise to my feet. After completing the pilgrimage to Panja Sahib and Amritsar, I came back to the village and met the divine friends from whom I had been long separated. By the grace of the Guru there was one Akhand Path after another and my spiritual condition became more and more exalted. I do not know for how many years and months this undisturbed peace and bliss lasted until suddenly the hawks of fate pounced on a carefree bird and then started the saga of long prison life. (Background history of Mother Gulab Kaur) It is learnt that Mai Gulab Kaur was born in Village Burhan in Campblpur district in the year 1920 AD. She was the daughter of Bhai Darha Aml, a sahajdhari Sikh and devotee of the Guru. She was married at the age if fifteen to one Bhai Des Raj of Haripur in 1935 AD. The couple stayed in Sohewale Mohalla in Haripur. She had one son and two daughters. Ten years before her deathe her husband died. Mai Gulab Kaur died some time in the year 1949-50. She spent the last ten years of her life in a state of spiritual intoxication. Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh says that when he met her, she wore a kach, and wrapped her body in a blanket. She was amritdhari (baptised) and lived strictly according to the Khalsa code of conduct, but it was not known where and when she was baptised. At Haripur people called her Gulabo, the mad woman. The Muslims revered her as a great saint, and respected her more than the Sikhs and Hindus. (This is an extract from BHAI SAHIB BHAI RANDHIR SINGH's Autobiography.) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Please still read about Baba Harnaam singh since you will see how to reach that saintly level too. His life was amazing: http://www.rampurkhe...inehiya2006.pdf Also, there is a book called rangle sajan written by bhai sahib randhir singh. He mentions many saints that reached a high spiritual level. Some include females. Heres a link to the book (look in the contents to find chapters about females): http://akj.org/liter...ook-RSajjan.pdf Hope that helps.

Firstly, hes not your spouse anyway. If we are not married and we have a relationship with someone, thats regarded as adultery because we are brides of Vaheguru, which Gurbani states. Marriage is like getting God's acceptance that we are married and that we can have a physical relationship without it being a sin. Once we are married it is again regarded as adultery if we have a relationship with someone who is not our husband. Penji, I advise you to not do anything immoral with him. Wait till you are married- you will be very thankful if you wait till your marriage to have any sexual relationship. You're on the wrong path right now. Even to have a boyfriend is anti-gurmat and now you're stuck in the situation whether you should have a sexual relationship with him. This would not happen if you did not have a boyfriend. These boyfriends and girlfriends all started in Kalyug. Previous yugs where there was less maya and distractions only had marriages. There was not any type of relationship before marriage even if there was no sex involved. Please see this rehatnama again: ibnw AnMd ibvwh qy Bugqy pr kI joie ] sux isKw gur kih Q~ky myrw isK n soie ]25] binaa ana(n)dh bivaah thae bhugathae par kee joe || sun sikhaa gur kehi thhaakae maeraa sikh n soe ||25|| Without having Anand Karaj those who have sexual relationships. Listen O' Sikh the Guru states, he is not my Sikh. Rehatnama Mukhthnama Also read this article: http://abhiyaas.blogspot.com/2005/11/bfgf-relationships.html If you want to know how we should be as sikhs read the lives of those true saints like baba harnaam singh, bhai sahib randhir singh, shaheed bhai fauja singh, etc and you will see how great their love for Guru Sahib is that no human could be replaced before Guru Sahib. They cared less to please any of this 5 vices e.g. kaam. If you need any internet links to read about their lives, just ask. Its seems like you haven't taken amrit because one of the orders from the panj pyare is to not have any physical relationship before Marriage. Once we take amrit, then we are his sikh. But before you take amrit, you need to realise your reason to. You will need to prepare yourself before-hand. Just as you love your boyfriend you need to fall in love with Gurbani the same way and then when you take amrit, the panj will give you naam. Gurfateh

Sex before marriage is forbidden. Again, it is considered one of the 4 cardinal sins. Sex is only meant for reproduction with your partner i.e. husband. You cannot consider him as your partner since you are not married to him even if hes your boyfriend. If you want to have any sexual relationship with him then you should get married. The quote I provided is a rehatnama, not a ang (page) from SGGS. Rehatnama are commandments. Here are other rehats: pr iesqRI isau nyh lgwvY goibMd isMG vh isK n Bwvy ] par eisathree sio naeh lagaavai gobi(n)dh si(n)gh veh sikh n bhaavae || Those Sikhs who fall for a woman other than their own will never receive the blessing of Guru Gobind Singh. Rehatnama by Bhai Nand Laal Jee Heres a quote from SGGS ang (page) 403 : inmK kwm suAwd kwrix koit idns duKu pwvih ] nimakh kaam suaadh kaaran kott dhinas dhukh paavehi || For a moment of sexual pleasure, you shall suffer in pain for millions of days.

Rehatnama: ibnw AnMd ibvwh qy Bugqy pr kI joie ] sux isKw gur kih Q~ky myrw isK n soie ]25] binaa ana(n)dh bivaah thae bhugathae par kee joe || sun sikhaa gur kehi thhaakae maeraa sikh n soe ||25|| Without having Anand Karaj those who have sexual relationships. Listen O' Sikh the Guru states, he is not my Sikh. Rehatnama Mukhthnama One of the 4 Bujjar Kurehits is Adultery which means having any sexual relationship with someone other than your partner. He is not your partner, so the answer is- NO!