HSD*^

i bet some of those gurudwara committee members are kicking themselves after the expenses scandal - they spent most of their lives on the wrong gravy train.

hmm, hitler isnt really what i would call a military mind. he served well and with honours in WW1 but never reached the rank of corporal, even with people dying all around him. but regardless of WW1, he was one of those leaders who wanted yes-men around him rather than face real criticism and refine his plans. at the beginning of WW2 it didnt matter as the german army commanders had a lot of personal control. as the war dragged on hitler's power over the army became more absolute, and as we all know a micro-managing general rarely wins a battle let alone a war. also, hitler spent the german ability to make war. the early german empire had thrown a lot of resources into protecting themselves and keeping up with the neighbours. most of this was lost in WW1 but the thirst of the people to fight was still there. hitler took that, used it, but misdirected it and ended up making germany a relevant yet minor power in the world with a population afraid of war (the parralel to us and maharaja ranjit singh are close). even now they dont have nuclear weapons as no one trusts them and they are afraid of going down that route of defence. mind you, one good thing we can learn from him are his oratorial skills and belief in the defence and preservation of a nation's people, culture and history. ------- when i think of military minds, the two i think from the last 2 hundred years are: Nelson http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horatio_Nelso...Viscount_Nelson this guy led his troops and knew how to make the most of their skills and what his ships and crew were capable of. this allowed him to try out unconventional tactics, that the enemy were not capable of improvising against. he was also considered violent, but war is war. if you dont have the balls to do whats necessary, dont start crying when you taste the harvest of your defeat. Rommel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erwin_Rommel rommel knew how to plan in order to respond to what the enemy did. some of those who served under him said he had a surprising ability to figure out what the enemy would do throughout an operation and what they were after. this allowed him to set traps and pull of maneuvers that completely sidelined the enemies' plans and frustrate them. rommel was also considered chivalrous, but whether that is necessary or unhelpful to a military mind is upto personal opinion. the two above are fairly recent. there is one other i would like to mention. Blas de Lezo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blas_de_Lezo this nutter was a legend in his time. he fought in the 'war of jenkins ear', which has been whitewashed from history by the english. look up sources on this war, it'll make an interesting read. one of britain's biggest defeats, which also led to the execution of the english commandeer for failure! bet they didnt teach you that in history class did they? unfortunately, blas de lezo died of illness soon after the battle and could not put his exploits into writing. but his actions show that fanatical militarism (the type used by the Akhalis) combined with inspired tactics can lead to victory over far larger forces. those are a few i would consider 'military minds', mainly for their actions in war.

so why is it sensible to use tables and chairs, geo? do guests in your house cover their heads?

sikhs arent indian. its fact. mind you it does depend on your definition of 'indian'.

Vote for the greens in the local election, UKIP in the european, libdem for the general election. they are all parties who have sympathies towards us. if you live in wales or scotland, consider the SNP or PC instead. better yet, confirm that the local representative of those parties is pro-84 justice and self determination, and then canvass for them (if you have the time).

but why should what you do at home be reflected in the gurudwara? do all guests at your house have to cover their heads?

geo, why do you want to sit on a chair and eat at a table in the langar hall?

i blame the christian evangelical activities in punjab. of course they arent linked, but if some people say it, it will help turn people away from the free stuff they get given if they convert to christianity.

where the gurus chosen by democracy? does it even matter? also washington was not self-appointed. yes, west point was a military garrison during the war. but no one wanted to create a military academy. as i said many were opposed to the idea of military academies as they thought this could lead to the destabilisation of democracy. but were did colonel thayer get the idea from? why did he chose west point? washington had more important things to do than run up and down europe as a mercenary. as for the damdani taksal it was not designed as a military science and engineering school, and does not produce military officers. none of the sikh schools were on the same level as westpoint as they had different intentions. mind you, the khalsa could definitely done with a sandhurst/west point style academy. this is what i said earlier in post #7: "read about leaders like cromwell, washington, bismark, mandela and then look at our lot. its time to wise up and create good strong leaders of the panth rather than waiting for them to fall out of the sky." did i call him a visionary? no. your points about washington could be said about churchill too. but history isnt about a table of things people did. its the effect they had and what they did that others didnt. we can sit here and say 'he only did that', but what have we done? will you or i help to build a country that in 250 years will be a global superpower? 'You should not have taken advantage of my sensibility to steal into my affections without my consent. ' also your sarcasm is ironic :rolleyes: . no the kids are intelligent enough. but a country with no variety in engineers or artists, scientists, writers, mathematicians etc is doomed to failure. sure, we will need doctors/dentists/accountants/lawyers but there are enough sikhs in the west who will go into those professions, we need to take advantage of the centuries of learning and thinking that western institutions(unis, schools, certain organisations) have. our parents just dont get it. i want to explain what i meant by the institutions a bit more, but i know some people will get the wrong end of the stick and start arguing, and i cant be bothered with that. but the beginning of this book gives an indication of the thinking behind what i said: http://www.amazon.com/Age-American-Unreaso...y/dp/1905847823. we sikhs are similar to the americans in terms of the age of our nation and certain problems we face.

so why are you so keen to sit on a chair and eat a table, eh geo?

those boys and girls are really outnumbered down under. we should increase immigration to oz and in a couple of years those sheilas will learn the meaning of sher-e-punjab.

the pro-jatts never make their points in public. its like neo-racism: they wont say paki to your face, but they will do everything to get one over you. i have some pro-jatts in my family, but they are all talk. if we want to get past caste, we will have to overcome the barriers. intermarriage, joint gurudwara committees, refusing to say what caste you are to young sikhs etc.

if you dont get it there is no need to get your knickers in a twist. :rolleyes: it was washington who came up with the idea of an academy, where as many of his contemporaries feared it would be too undemocratic and didnt like the idea. so no, not even a 'retired private first class' would say that, as they would have no idea what westpoint would be. and you cant compare damdani taksal to westpoint as one is a religous establishment set up for different purposes than westpoint. do you know g.washington also had wooden/ivory teeth? when i mentioned him earlier did you also think i wanted people who read it to knock their own teeth out and replace them with wood/ivory? when i mentioned cromwell do you think i meant we should all run up and down ireland killing locals? when i said bismark did i mean we should plot to isolate and destroy france? when i said mandela do i mean importing and selling weapons to people who use child soldiers? hell no. but everytime i start a thread, there is always some numbnut who comes along and wants a public argument for no real reason. if you didnt understand a point, or why i said something, cant you just ask why i said that. did it ever occur to your gigantic intelligence that i might have a reason for saying so?! of course not. no you just want a long drawn out pointless argument. oh the irony. do you know anything about sikh history (supposing you are even sikh)? if you do, then you know we have a habit of fighting for other people in their wars. and this is even if they have their own armies and the casus belli does not involve us. actually you did need washington. many american politicians wanted to join the french after their revolution and join in the war in europe. how long would the US last against the combined navies and armies of monarchistic europe? not long. thats why washington made the most out of the war and got concessions off both sides. if anyone who reads this and doesnt understand it, please go and learn some history. oh and it wasnt just food that america sold before the world wars. i was pointing out how you contradicted yourself. also, are you sure parents are intelligent? i live in britain and the elders in my local gurudwara are the most superstitous, anti-intellectual fundamentalists around. they dont want there sons/daughters to be doctors/accountants/dentists because its good for them or they know more about the world. they want bragging rights over other parents and the chance to enjoy retirement with their children's money. but not every one of their kids are cut out for those professions. there are kids who could have been great mathematicians/scientists/athletes but their parents emotionally blackmailed them into trying to be in a 'respectable' profession. but guess what, they dont make it, and then these kids end up working in the parent's business, and i think what a waste. i was lucky as i changed course in my first year from a vocational degree to a more intelligent and interesting subject. but that was against what my parents wanted. so go figure. benjamin franklin was a true genius. if we had someone like him we would at least get somewhere in building khalistan. even though the french reasons for helping may not have been honourable (is anyones?) they still did a lot, and the revolution wouldnt have worked without them.

that made me laugh and feel sad at the same time. what a predicament we find ourselves in brothers.

well look at some of the threads on here. even people who agree on the same thing argue over who is more right than the other. none of them are good at taking orders, yet find it hard to think or even apply logic to situations without being told what to do. this is why loads of people created all these groups, just to make themselves feel right. mind you they dont say anything when they are proved wrong and end up failing.

so why are you happy that there are chairs and tables in you langar hall?

the dera followers should pay compensation or have to give their own property to the victims.

so geo, why do you want chairs and table in your gurudwara?

there are two sides to every story. sirhind, anyone? also, who had the idea to create westpoint? the academy that has provided the united states army with capable officers, engineers and graduates for over two centuries? did any of the sikhs of the khalsa raj do anything similar? as for saying he had no worry, i think your wrong as he had to be president and stop others from derailing what they fought for. also, he was the first to propose the idea of not getting involved in wars between european states, as staying out would allow the USA to grow stronger at their expense (a theory that resulted in the USA becoming the power it is today). and before you mention WW1 or WW2, take note that the US economy grew ridiculously before they got involved in either. even truman said WW2 would be better if the nazis and soviets could fight each other and the americans would sell weapons to both sides for profit. washington proposed the idea of spreading west instead. so who got all those resources - the brits?french?spanish?russians? no. the yanks did. all because this guy pushed them in that direction. and looking at the strength of america now, compared to our inability to do anything anywhere, i think history speaks for it. unless you close your ears that is. on one hand you say always be doctors/lawyers/engineers and then you say be philosophers/political analysts. maybe your a bit dumb so i'll tell you now: you misunderstood my post. whats wrong with allowing your kids to follow their talents and be the best in their field? rather than forcing them into careers that they dont want to do or wont be good at. and you porn star analogy is dumb- do they have porn classes were you're from? oh dear. that is complete bull. the french fought the naval battles for you, supplied equipment and officers. the major victory at Yorktown would not have been possible without them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Yorktown the main reason the french fought is because it gave them an ally and removed the first jewel in the british crown. you sir are a muppet. did you even read my other posts in this thread?

nahh, its just that your randomness on an inane topic like this has got me worried about your wellbeing.

why are you jealous? dont try to think much more or you'll do yourself an injury.

we would like a breakdown of who all your relatives are married to. that does not include personal details like names, just age/sex/religion/race and to which member of your family they are married to.

so geo, who are your family members married to?

nah, if there arent enough singhs willing to do it we'll have to build robots instead. arnie with a nihang turban anyone? oh and pl2009, the reason your not wasting your time is because you cant answer my points and want to turn this into a dragged out argument. so take your 'rep' and go 'run ****' somewhere. Yes, the great points you make like how 50% Sikh Canadians marry non-sikhs without giving any source to back up your claims. :rolleyes: Just read the other posts here and see how many of them are not agreeing with your views as well. Remember that I am not only one here who disagree with your views/points. or like how you said that the govt runs the bbc.............. :rolleyes: . many people agree with me and hardly anyone disagreed with everything i said. so read those posts. and you never answered any of my other points as well as forgetting that i have explained all my points (understand genetics a bit more now, eh mor0n?). your not even a sikh, just some person with a chip on their shoulder. you cant even have an intelligent discussion.

i hope thats all they do.