Sukhdeep Singhh

Veer Ji , I think you are missing the point. Salvation should tried to be attained in this life not the next, and for one to attain salvation in this life it takes alot of effort. Our Soul is like a bird crying for the immortal drink. For many life times the mind which has been contolled by the Ego and has prevented this soul from quenching its sole desire to drink the immortal amrit. We have been born and dead many times. The atma wants to rest in immortal nectar. Because we have been deprived from this immortal amrit for many life times the soul is starving for this essence. Guru Sahib has called Amrit Vela amrit vela for a reason. This is the time Guru Jis darbar sahib ( Sach Khand) freely distrubtes Amrit to the crying souls. Those Varagis who wake up during this time their tongue has a strong desire to taste the immortal amrit. Its the same way our tongue craves the essence when we recite Amrit Bani. It is this Amrit which is the food for the soul. By not waking up for Amrit Vela we are only starving our soul from its essence. When ever we wake up for Amrit vela our Atma is in attendance in the holy darbar of Sach Khand which is our true home. Just think being in the holy darbar of Sach Khand with all the great saints. Every night when we recite Kirtan Sohila towards the end we always ask for the dust of the holy saints. We are really asking to be in attendance with the holy saints of Sach Khand where the atmic tongue drinks the Amrit of Guru Jis internal darbar.

How is this brahmanistic if it says in Gurbani and Rehatnamas to wake up for amrit vela. PrIdw ipCl rwiq n jwigEih jIvdVo muieEih ] fareedhaa pishhal raath n jaagiouhi jeevadharro mueiouhi || Fareed, if you do not awaken in the early hours before dawn, you are dead while yet alive. jy qY rbu ivswirAw q rib n ivsirEih ]107] jae thai rab visaariaa th rab n visariouhi ||107|| Although you have forgotten God, God has not forgotten you. ||107|| pishael Raat means before the sun rises. In the following pangti Bhai Gurdas Ji uses the same vocab ( Pishal Raat) indicating to wake up before the sun rises. ipCl rwqIN jwgxw nwmu dwnu iesnwnu idVwey] pishhal raathee jaaganaa naam dhaan eisanaan dhirraaeae|| The Sikh awakes in the pre-dawn hour and meditating upon Naam, he becomes alert for ablution and charity. Another pangti gurisK Blky auT kir AMimRq vyly sru nHwvMdw] gurasikh bhalakae out(h) kar a(n)mrith vaelae sar nhaava(n)dhaa|| The Gurmukh getting up in ambrosial hours of the early morning takes bath in the sacred tank. The above MahaVak by Bhai Gurdas Ji indicates a Gurmukh gets up in the morning during amrit vela . Rehatnama states gurisK rihq sunhu hy mIq prBwqy auT kr ihq cIq ] gurasikh rehith sunahu hae meeth parabhaathae out(h) kar hith cheeth || Listen Sikh of the Guru, to the code of discipline. Awake at the Ambrosial hours and focus your attention on the Lord. Rehatnama Bhai Nand Laal Jee Thus the following is an indication of the importance of Amrit Vela. Amrit Vela is a sacred time its where beast stay a sleep while those who want to awaken themselves from this beastly existence wake up. Your right God is timeless. But to wake up so early out of love for God one meets the timeless Jot. As God always blesses those who make sacrifice and make an effort to please him.

Veer Ji nice Naam Simran. Do not be caught up with mechanics of pronunciations. All you need to do is recite VaaheGuRu with love and how the Panj Pyaarey taught you how to recite it . Thats all you need. Guru Ji will forgive any mistakes as long as you recite with devotion and faith. Gods name doesnt illuminate in the body from "proper" recitation. Gurmantar will illuminate only through faith and devotion to GurMantar. By the way I see no problems in your recitation of Gurmantar you are pronounciating each letter so I dont see what the problem is. . VaaheGuRu Ji keep the naam going. Veer Ji nice Naam Simran. Do not be caught up with mechanics of pronunciations. All you need to do is recite VaaheGuRu with love and how the Panj Pyaarey taught you how to recite it . Thats all you need. Guru Ji will forgive any mistakes as long as you recite with devotion and faith. Gods name doesnt illuminate in the body from "proper" recitation. Gurmantar will illuminate only through faith and devotion to GurMantar. By the way I see no problems in your recitation of Gurmantar you are pronounciating each letter so I dont see what the problem is. . VaaheGuRu Ji keep the naam going.

In regards to the killing of insects. This is like saying we shouldnt drive a car because it kills insects on the road. Life exist in everything including the air. As Gursikhs we try to live a life of strict discernment to the best of our ability. At times it means that some life may be killed like insects, or flies. but we are not intentionally killing these beings. All we can do is pray that these life forms get the human body and find their way to the perfect Guru . We are not Jains who try to aviod the killing of all life ( air, insects on the ground) We are Grishti Gursikhs we have to be practical we cant lock ourselves in a room and say im going to disconnect my self from the entire world because I dont want to destroy life. Bhai Sahib i think you are confusing Bibek with Bahanism. Bibek has nothing to do with touching or handling. What ever organic foods we get from the store we clean anyways for sanitary reasons. Bibek means the preparation/making of food by AmritDhari Sikhs. The Jeevan of a person does matter when preparing food. If a person is thinking soley on God when preparing food then the food is blessed. If the person is not soley thinking or trying to think about God then the food is cursed. If a person does not make an honest and give to dasvand then the food is cursed. If the food is prepared by a person who doesnt have accepted Guru Ji then the food is not blessed. Bibek is a puratan diet which is only being practiced mainl by Nihang and AKJ Singhs. There are a few Taksali Singhs who follow this discipline diet. For example Sant Kartar Singh Ji was a Bibekee. There are also rehatnamas that say not to eat from Non- Gursikhs hai Chaupa SIngh Ji or Guru Gobind Singh Sahib Ji (?) jwkI rhiq n jwxIAY gurmMqR nhI cIq[ aunkw Bojn KwiekY ibsrih hir isau pRIq[ One who has no rehit And does not meditate on the Gurmantar; If you eat his food, You will loose the love for God. (Rehitnama) Also there is "Guru kaa Sikh...apaNy langar rasoee vich Sikh rakhey. Hukaie, Topeeaa, BhaadNee, chor, yaar, jooaybaaz, kurehiteeyaa na rakhai" meaining "A Guru ka Sikh...should keep only a Sikh in his langar and kitchen. Smokers, hat-wearers, shaven people, theieves, gamblers, kurehitees should not be kept" (Padam, 85). Bhai Chaupa Singh Ji Also other various Puraatan rehitnamas also make clear the importance of Bibek for a Sikh. Bhai Daya Singh rehitnaama contains the following bachans: "Bhojanaad Moundit naal chhakey, Tankhaiyaa" or One who eats food with a Mona/non-Sikh, is guilty of a breach of conduct (Piara Singh Padam�s Rehitnamay pg. 72) The Rby In Sau Sakhee, sakhee #8 rehitnama it says clearly "So Sikh gur ka janeeay, Monay ann na khai" meaning: such is a Sikh of The Guru who does not eat the food of Monay/Non-Sikhs. Prominent Panthic scholar Bhai Sahib Kahan Singh of Nabha, in his Encyclopedia of Sikh Literature on page 863 defines Bibeki as "...a Sikh who is strict and steadfast in following the principles of Sikh Dharma." The terms Bibek and Vivek are synonymous and have the same meaning i.e. 'sense of discrimination.' In Gurmat, it implies the unquestionable adherence to the command of the Satguru. From http://www.akhandkirtanijatha.org/ mIxw AOr msMdIAw monw kuVI jo mwr hoie isK vrqn krih AMq krygw KuAwr ]6] meenaa aar masa(n)dheeaa monaa kurree jo maar hoe sikh varathan karehi a(n)th karaegaa khuaar ||6|| Meenaas, Masandhs, those with haircuts and those who kill their daughters; If a Sikh eats from them, he will not be united with the Lord and will suffer at the time of death.. The word Vartan here pertains to eating from. Those people above where once Sikhs, but they broke their rehat by commiting a Kureheit thus Guru Sahib is saying one cannot eat from such people. Gurbani Mentions Bugiq igAwnu dieAw BMfwrix Git Git vwjih nwd ] bhugath giaan dhaeiaa bha(n)ddaaran ghatt ghatt vaajehi naadh || Let spiritual wisdom be your food, and compassion your attendant. The Sound-current of the Naad vibrates in each and every heart. and scw caukw suriq kI kwrw ] sachaa choukaa surath kee kaaraa || Pure is that kitchen, which is enclosed by spiritual awareness.

Naaz Veer Ji what city are you from?

Bhenji It seems like you had a great summer which was full of Sikhi

I remember when I went to Anandpur Sahib there was a real small modern Gurdwara along with a real nice ancient looking langar hall.. When you walk to the langar hall you have to walk through an unsteady path. THis gurdwara was not from from Anand Garh Fort. We asked a sevadar about this Gurdwara and he said it was founded by a Sant. I wonder if he was referring to Sant Seva Singh Ji?

swDsMgiq sc KMfu gurmuiK jweIAY] saadhhasa(n)gath sach kha(n)dd guramukh jaaeeai|| Holy Congregation is the abode of Truth where Gurmukhs go to reside. scu nwau blvMfu gurmuiK iDAweIAY] sach naao balava(n)dd guramukh dhhiaaeeai|| Gurmukhs adore the grand and powerful True name (of the Lord). The heaven inferior to Sach Khand are the heavens explained by the Vedas, Holy Quaran, and Holy Bible. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji only talks about Naam, Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji has that power because Guru Sahib resides in Sach Khand. While the teachings/saying of the other scriptures can only take a follower to certain abodes which are tempoary and somewhat false compared to the abode of Sach Khand.. These heavens are false abodes because Naam is not being worshipped here in such places ultimate peace can never take place.. While the abode of Truth ( Sach Khand) is eternally blissful beacause Naam is being worshipped there. There can be no physical description of Sach Khand as Gurbani says those who try to explain well repent. Gurbani does mention that Sach Khand is a place of no worries, fear, and it is the abode of bliss. In this place death does not take place and the True Sadh Sangat ( Bhagata) reside. It is in this Sangat were pain or death cannot apporach the devotee. They are true Sadh Sangat because there only desire is for Naam, while those who went to the other realms went through their deeds their desire. When reaching Dharam Rai they were rewarded with a temporary heaven, but their sense of Birth, Death, attachment and suffering are not completely elimanted in these heavens. Without the company of the True Sadh Sangat ( Bhagata) one can never be free from BIRTH/DEATH, and suffering because In Sadh Sangat only naam resides. Those people who reside in the temporary heavens were caught up in the Punn Paap philosophy and their abhyiaas of Naam in this life was minimal their sangat in this heaven have the same mentality.One can only wonder what these individuals do in this place? While those residing in Sach Khand made Naam their life occupation. Their sole desire is to praise and worship Gods Name all day and night. When reaching Sach Khand they meet devotees of the same mentality .Bhagats like Bhagat Kabir Ji, Bhagat Ravidas Ji, Baba Attar Singh Ji, Baba Nand Singh JI, Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Ji Baba Isher Singh Ji, etc reside in this place beacuse Naam was their sole occupation. When we do not base our life on Naam then we get caught up in TriGun/Maya. This is why those who went to the falser heavens becasue they did not have the Naam Kamayee to reach the true abode. By saying false heaven I mean no disrespect to the Christians, Muslims or Jews. But I believe without Naam all is false. Ones destiny depends on their desires and actions. If one desires a heaven that is based on rewards then thats what they will get, but such a place is not permanent. When one has the hope of heaven then internal contemplation of internal God does not take place. Thus the sense of Tuhi Tuhi does not take place and the sense of mine mine is not destroyed. Only Naam can destory the sense of Mine. In sach khand there is no sense of mine. I have no authority to say what is a inferior or superior heaven. I only based the following on my own research of Gurbani. The following Shabad shaped my beliefs of what Sach Khand is and how this abode of Truth is compleltey differnt/distinct then heavens preached by other faiths. sUhI mhlw 5 ] soohee mehalaa 5 || Soohee, Fifth Mehla: isimRiq byd purwx pukwrin poQIAw ] simrith baedh puraan pukaaran pothheeaa || Those subscrbing to the Simritees, the Vedas, the Puraanas speak and debate from their holy books nwm ibnw siB kUVu gwl@I hoCIAw ]1] naam binaa sabh koorr gaalhee hoshheeaa ||1|| but without the Naam, everything is false and worthless. ||1|| nwmu inDwnu Apwru Bgqw min vsY ] naam nidhhaan apaar bhagathaa man vasai || The infinite treasure of the Naam abides within the minds of the devotees. jnm mrx mohu duKu swDU sMig nsY ]1] rhwau ] janam maran mohu dhukh saadhhoo sa(n)g nasai ||1|| rehaao || Birth and death, attachment and suffering, are erased in the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy. ||1||Pause|| moih bwid AhMkwir srpr ruMinAw ] mohi baadh aha(n)kaar sarapar ru(n)niaa || Those who indulge in attachment, conflict and egotism shall surely weep and cry. suKu n pwiein@ mUil nwm ivCuMinAw ]2] sukh n paaeinih mool naam vishhu(n)niaa ||2|| Those who are separated from the Naam shall never find any peace. ||2|| myrI myrI Dwir bMDin bMiDAw ] maeree maeree dhhaar ba(n)dhhan ba(n)dhhiaa || Crying out, Mine! Mine!, he is bound in bondage. nrik surig Avqwr mwieAw DMiDAw ]3] narak surag avathaar maaeiaa dhha(n)dhhiaa ||3|| Entangled in Maya, he is reincarnated in heaven and hell. ||3|| soDq soDq soiD qqu bIcwirAw ] sodhhath sodhhath sodhh thath beechaariaa || Searching, searching, searching, I have come to understand the essence of reality. nwm ibnw suKu nwih srpr hwirAw ]4] naam binaa sukh naahi sarapar haariaa ||4|| Without the Naam, there is no peace at all, and the mortal will surely fail. ||4|| Awvih jwih Anyk mir mir jnmqy ] aavehi jaahi anaek mar mar janamathae || Many come and go; they die, and die again, and are reincarnated. ibnu bUJy sBu vwid jonI Brmqy ]5] bin boojhae sabh vaadh jonee bharamathae ||5|| Without understanding, they are totally useless, and they wander in reincarnation. ||5|| ijn@ kau Bey dieAwl iqn@ swDU sMgu BieAw ] jinh ko bheae dhaeiaal thinh saadhhoo sa(n)g bhaeiaa || They alone join the Saadh Sangat, unto whom the Lord becomes Merciful. AMimRqu hir kw nwmu iqn@I jnI jip lieAw ]6] a(n)mrith har kaa naam thinhee janee jap laeiaa ||6|| They chant and meditate on the Ambrosial Name of the Lord. ||6|| Kojih koit AsMK bhuqu Anµq ky ] khojehi kott asa(n)kh bahuth ana(n)th kae || Uncounted millions, so many they are endless, search for Him. ijsu buJwey Awip nyVw iqsu hy ]7] jis bujhaaeae aap naerraa this hae ||7|| But only that one, who understands his own self, sees God near at hand. ||7|| ivsru nwhI dwqwr Awpxw nwmu dyhu ] visar naahee dhaathaar aapanaa naam dhaehu || Never forget me, O Great Giver - please bless me with Your Naam. gux gwvw idnu rwiq nwnk cwau eyhu ]8]2]5]16] gun gaavaa dhin raath naanak chaao eaehu ||8||2||5||16|| To sing Your Glorious Praises day and night - O Nanak, this is my heart-felt desire. ||8||2||5||16||

What is the appropriate time to go to sleep.

I dont understand what you keep saying when you say strawhat. Im not doing any kind of argument tactics. Pose any questions and I will answer it honestly to the best possibility. In regads to the Pangti the main focal point is not the surti. The main focus/search point is the navel. This is written in Gurbani. In the following Pangti Mool ( root-origins) and Tat ( essence/truth- God) mean the same thing. iehu mnu inhclu ihrdY vsIAly gurmuiK mUlu pCwix rhY ] eihu man nihachal hiradhai vaseealae guramukh mool pashhaan rehai || When the mind becomes steady and stable, it abides in the heart, and then the Gurmukh realizes the root, the source of all. nwiB pvnu Gir Awsix bYsY gurmuiK Kojq qqu lhY ] naabh pavan ghar aasan baisai guramukh khojath thath lehai || The breath is seated in the home of the navel; the Gurmukh searches, and finds the essence of reality. When you focus on this point eventually the Surti/Taksal becomes more focused and takes shape. As for those Sants who learned the method they learned it directly from Guru Ji because of their immense Bhagti.

You can use this sadness towards your advantage or you can use this sadness to decrease the quality of your life. Sadness is part of human nature it happens many times during a mid life crisis. This sadness is destructive because its worldly. The there is the spiritual sadness( Vairaag) which comes through great fortune. Through this sadness one meets great spiritual progression. If you are feeling sadness from the outside world then I suggest you turn this sadness inwards. Then you will gain the courage and wisdom to deal with obstacles in the world. Internal Contemplation in the state of Vaairag gives the person much poise and power to deal with every problems as long as one stays focused on the goal. God will take care of the rest.

Khalsa colors for Dastar consist of BLue, Black, Orange, and White every other color is not part of Khalsa Uniform. I think these colors are good to wear they are simple colors. Why pink,red, green, are too flashy.

Even though it is a blessing when the Panj Pyaarey tell you to keep Bibek you can still keep it without their blessing. I dont think the modern Taksali Singhs keep Bibek. The older SIngh like Sant Kartar Singh Ji did though. Bibek is important because God resides in the body, so we need to be careful about what we put in the body. Food that is made with the head uncovered properly, chugli taking place. Gurmantar not being recited is not blessed food. We cannot put such things in our body. It is completely different from Brahamnism . Brahamins only eat from their own caste. Bibekis eat from REhatDhari Gursikhs it doesnt matter what caste because they dont believe in caste.

In the past during Charan Di Pahaul when the Abhilakhi drank Amrit from Guru Jis Charan Guru Ji would put his hand on the head and instill/implant Naam in the devotee. For Naam Drir to occur the devotee had so stay attached ato Guru Jis Charan. When Guru Sahib changed Charan Di Pahaul to Khanda Di Pahaul this method of Guru Sahib blessing the abillakhi with the power of his hands did not change. The abhilakhi still bowed down to Guru Jis charan and Panj Pyaarey instill Naam, and swas swas simran is understood. Anybody who recieves the Gurmantar is a truly blessed person there is no doubt about it. Naam Drir is the instilling of this Gurmantar in which Guru Ji gives instuctions on how to reverse the breath. jwsu jpq ieh inrml soie ] jaas japath eih niramal soe || Meditating on Him, one acquires this pure reputation. jwsu jpq kmlu sIDw hoie ]7] jaas japath kamal seedhhaa hoe ||7|| Meditating on Him, the heart-lotus is turned upright. ||7|| guir suB idRsit sB aUpir krI ] gur subh dhrisatt sabh oopar karee || The Guru has bestowed His Glance of Grace upon all, ijs kY ihrdY mMqRü dy hrI ] jis kai hiradhai ma(n)thra dhae haree || within whose hearts the Lord has implanted His Mantra. Does this mean that those who dont understand Swas Swas from Guru Jis instructions that their Naam Simran it has no effect? Of course not anybody who does Naam Simran will get GUru Jis blessing. Swas Swas just has a stronger effect. Learning from Guru Jis instructions is a great aid in learing Swas Swas simran immediately. Otherwise It takes lots and lots of Naam Simran to learn this method form Guru Ji. Does this mean that those who have not recieved Naam Drir during AMrit Sanchar they unvalid Amrit? Abolutely no, it would be blasphemous to think such a thing. Naam Drir along with Guru Jis instructions is the greatest gift in doing Swas Swas Naam Simran it makes the technique more easier and undestable. For example, at the local Gurdwara I attend there are some older Singhs who have not recieved Naam Drir. They do Naam Simran during Amrit Vela ( 1-4) everyday with the Sangat. They are truly blessed to do so much Naam Simran. When they are doing Naam Simran one can notice at times they are doing it with their swas, but this is not all the time. Its obvious Guru Ji has blessed these older Singhs with some understanding of Swas Swas Simran technique due to their lifetime Bhagti. Gurmukhs like Baba Attar Singh Ji ( Mastuana) Baba Isher Singh Ji ( Rara Sahib) Baba Nand Singh Ji, Baba Harnam Singh Ji ( Rampur) , and Baba Thakur SIngh Ji did Swas Swas Naam Simran without learning the technique during AMrit Sanchar. But they would do Naam Abhyiaas all day Guru Ji eventually blessed them with the technique. For householder its extrememly diffiuclt to do as much Naam SImran as those Gurmukhs to learn the technique of Swas Swas, thus it is advisable to learn directly from Panj Pyaarey who are the emobidment of Guru Sahib. DO you think it is more helpful to learn instructions from a Sant or Guru Ji? I think it is wrong to question the power and ability of Panj Pyaarey. People who do such things are taking a daring risk, I only hope such people think before they try to put doubts about Panj Pyaarey in peoples mind. I think the people who talk down on Naam Drir do not have bad intentions I just think they are misguided. They think by talking down on Naam Drir they are just talking down on AKJ. But this is not the truth. They are talking down on Panj Pyaarey who is the emodiment of Guru Ji.

WaaheGuru ... I am speechless.

Waaheguru Ji this is some great stuff. This is the best explaination I have ever heard of Pavan Guru.

In regards to the rumors about Baba Nihal Singh Ji. Talking down on something and saying something is not necessary are two different things. Nobody is saying Naam Drir is necessary. Naam Dhrir is not a kakkar, but it very helpful in reaching dasam duaar in a quicker way. Similarily nobody can claim that doing 3 hours of Naam Simran for Amrit Vela is necessary. Yet im sure doing such a thing will help a person. In regards to Bhai Randhir Singh Ji . It is no secret that I have great respect for Bhai Randhir SIngh Ji. His love and faith for Gurmat is unbelievable. In reagards to following his views. I agree with most his views because I believe they are right but doesnt mean I agree with all his views. By the way why are you mentioning Raag Mala now. I never once said anything about Raag Mala. Again I can only request that you stop playing this Desi- Jatha politics with me. Simply I am only into religion I dont care for these things. I belong to the same Jatha that Bhai Randhir Singh Ji,Baba Nand Singh Ji, Baba ISher SIngh Ji ( Rara Sahib), Sant Attar SIngh Ji ( Mastuana) Baba Harnam Singh Ji ( Rampur) etc belong to. This is the jatha that only rely on Gurmat. People change and groups change, but Gurmat can and will never change. Again this is the last time Im going to mention anything about Jathas. Im strictly into Sprituality these other things of being attached to people and groups have no interest for me. The word Drir in Gurmat means to instill, implant, sow, stich,etc the wonderous Naam of Waaheguru into the Abhilakhi by the Panj Pyaarey and Panj Pyaarey because only Panj can give Gurmantar. khu nwnk guir mMqRü idRVwieAw ] kahu naanak gur ma(n)thra dhrirraaeiaa || Says Nanak, the GurMantra has been implanted within me; kyvl nwmu ird mwih smwieAw ]4]42]111] kaeval naam ridh maahi samaaeiaa ||4||42||111|| the Name alone is contained within my heart. ||4||42||111|| Could you provide your understanding of the word Dhir and back it up with Gurmat. In regards to your translation to the Gurvak. You stated "they instruct us to turn inward rather than outward - i.e. to seek God within ourselves" The pangti is clear about reversing ( Ult) your Pavan ( swas- Breath) . Yet you make no mention of swas in your interpration. The word Pavan is also considered as Swas and resides in the human body. In Anand Sahib Guru Ji states hir jIau guPw AMdir riK kY vwjw pvxu vjwieAw ] har jeeo gufaa a(n)dhar rakh kai vaajaa pavan vajaaeiaa || The Lord placed the soul to the cave of the body, and blew the breath of life into the musical instrument of the body. vjwieAw vwjw paux nau duAwry prgtu kIey dsvw gupqu rKwieAw ] vajaaeiaa vaajaa poun no dhuaarae paragatt keeeae dhasavaa gupath rakhaaeiaa || He blew the breath of life into the musical instrument of the body, and revealed the nine doors; but He kept the Tenth Door hidden. gurduAwrY lwie BwvnI ieknw dsvw duAwru idKwieAw ] guradhuaarai laae bhaavanee eikanaa dhasavaa dhuaar dhikhaaeiaa || Through the Gurdwara, the Guru's Gate, some are blessed with loving faith, and the Tenth Door is revealed to them. In this Pauri it is clear that Pavan refers to swas which exists within the body through Gods grace. This is very important to know when understanding pANGTI By Bhagat Kabir Ji. In that Pangti Guru says turn the breath inwards. Could you tell me where this breath is located and how is it turned inward? I agree about attention must be focused internally. But please tell me where the focus should be focused on. Also who can give instructions for the swas to turn inward surely we cant give ourselves instructions? Because that would be just plain manmat. Also is there anything that handicapps the breath from turning inward? If yes what is it. If no please explain. Thanks

Swas swas naam simran is the method on how to Jaap Naam by Panj Pyaarey. Naam Dhrir is when the blessed hands ( Guru Jis hands) of Panj Pyaarey gives Naam Dhrir to the Abhilakhi. This method cannot be denyed. It is mentioned in Gurmat. siqgurU DMnu nwnku msqik qum DirE ijin hQo ] sathiguroo dhha(n)n naanak masathak thum dhhariou jin hathho || Blessed is the True Guru Nanak, who placed His hand upon Your forehead. q DirE msqik hQu shij Aimau vuTau Cij suir nr gx muin boihX Agwij ] th dhhariou masathak hathh sehaj amio vut(h)o shhaj sur nar gan mun bohiy agaaj || When He placed His hand upon Your forehead, then the celestial nectar began to rain down in torrents; the gods and human beings, heavenly heralds and sages were drenched in its fragrance. so hir jpY ijsu gur msqik hwQu ] so har japai jis gur masathak haathh || He alone meditates on the Lord, upon whose forehead the Guru places His hand. Atl bcnu nwnk gur qyrw sPl kru msqik DwirAw ]2]21]49] attal bachan naanak gur thaeraa safal kar masathak dhhaariaa ||2||21||49|| Your Word is eternal, O Guru Nanak; You placed Your Hand of blessing upon my forehead. ||2||21||49|| It is apparent that Naam Drir has been in vogue since Pehli Paatshah. Guru Ji would place his hands on the devotee head and automatically swas swas Naam Simran would happen. This ability can only happen by Satguru Ji know other person has the ability to do so. So it is clear that GUru Ji instills Naam and the devootee is taught how to recite naam.

I've heard baba ji say this myself. No, I don't have a katha recording. It's very un-Sikh like of you to use these cheap argument tactics ji. You yourself said Naam dhrir is different from the jugti (technique) of swas swas simran. Now you're trying to pretend the two are the same to confuse people into thinking that a sampradic sant beleives in AKJ naam dhrir. You may be able to trick some with these underhanded tactics, but I think most are too smart to fall for that. Swas swas simran is a common technique, many use it. It is not only AKJ that promote it. If you truly believed this, then you would not use underhanded argument tactics to try to promote your jatha's beliefs. Instead, you would be honest and straightforward in discussions in an attempt to discover the truth. In regards to Swas Swas Naam SImran and Naam Drir I have already explainned in a previous post that Naam Drir is an aide to Swas Swas Naam Simran therefore why would BaBa Ji talk down on it. He has sangat of AKJ Singhs and im sure he knows the advantages of it. If he personally told you Naam Drir is not important then please tell me your name so we can ask him next time he comes. Please do not make things up about a Saint just to win an arguement. Im not the one using Jatha-like tactics. I have cleary stated im not into Jathas nor do I want to keep talking about them. You yourself keep mentioning all these different people and Jathas to denounce Naam Drir and talk down on the AKJ. I have given you numeous pangtis supporting the USe of Naam Drir given by Guru Ji yet you have not addressed any of them. I am more concerned about doing GUrbani Veechar, Im not into this Desi mentality about my Baba said this or my Jatha said this. This thread is about concentration while meditating so Lets do Gurbani Veechar. Could you please do arth of this pangti please. rI klvwir gvwir mUF miq aulto pvnu iPrwvau ] ree kalavaar gavaar moodt math oulatto pavan firaavo || You barbaric brute, with your primitive intellect - reverse your breath and turn it inward. mnu mqvwr myr sr BwTI AMimRq Dwr cuAwvau ]1] man mathavaar maer sar bhaat(h)ee a(n)mrith dhhaar chuaavo ||1|| Let your mind be intoxicated with the stream of Ambrosial Nectar which trickles down from the furnace of the Tenth Gate. ||1|| Explain to us how is the breath reversed, who does this. ALso whom or what is a brute/fool? Is Guru Ji giving instructions? If yes to whom? How does the intellect become foolish? Thanks If you and Matheen can address these questions then I will happy to respond back. But if you want to keep talking about Sampradas and other non- related things Im not going to waste my time. I have already stated that sampradas or old groups claining linkage to GUru Ji have been corrupt. Take the Nihangs of Hazoor Sahib for examlple. They claim they follow Puratan Maryada because there Jatha has been in existent since Guru Sahibs time. yet they do Aarti and all kinds of hindu customs?? that explains what im talking about. Again I Dont want to keep talking about these things over and over. I have no attachments to any Jatha or Baba. I only like to follow Gurmat according to Gurmat. SO if you want to do Gurbani Veechar then we can do that otherwise dont waste my time by mentioning what other people or groups say. ALso dont make up things about Baba Nihal Singh Ji. thanks

No, I didn't say that, my previous post is a bit unclear. There was the Khalsa Fauj, and it just happened that the Jathedar of the fauj at that time was also the jathedar of the Taksal. You can still be part of the taksal and be a soldier as well. Even after the formation of the Buddha and Taruna Dals, Singhs were sent to Taksals to study, or the Taksal would come to them. This still goes on - there is a video on Youtube where the head of the Boparai Taksal explains these links. Anyway, this is a bit off-topic and was just to counter your post. The crux of the matter is that none of the Sampardas with unbroken links to Guru Ji's era have anything resembling the modern method of 'naam dhrirr' that the AKJ use, or change the kakkars. Do the AKJ recommend that people who have received Amrit from other places go pesh before an AKJ panj? Please forgive me if I sound rude when I say this but I could care less about which people think they belong to a group who have linkage to GUru Sahib. Lol Khalsa is the only group Guru Ji recognizes and that is the end of the story. There is no reason for you to counter anything I say. Im not writing for the sake of argument. Im just stating that no one group has authoirty to say what is True Sikhi. All groups have reformed because its a plain fact that Hinduism has crept into SIkhi in the past. Again Im not into this desiIsm which people are bonded to their groups. I am only into sprituality and these matters are very small. I only commetted for those who insist that AKJ is a modern Jatha and therefore have no understandings of Gurmat. People who are making these claims do not know Bhai Randhir SIngh Ji and his relationship with GUru Sahib. "Do the AKJ recommend that people who have received Amrit from other places go pesh before an AKJ panj?" I dont understand what you are trying to state or do. Amrit is Amrit which is given by Panj Pyaarey. There is no such things as speical AKJ Amrit. If people want Naam Drir they dont need to take Amrit again they just go for Naam Drir. Again I dont want to waste my time with this Jatha politics, I just want to state the clear facts that no one group has an authority to claim they are the custodians of Tat Gurmat it doesnt matter how old the group is if anything the older groups have more influence by hinduism.

Baba Soorat Singh Ji, who at a young age received Amrit Di Daat from the hands of Guru Gobind Singh Ji themselves. They then became a student of Baba Deep Singh Ji and Baba Gurbaksh Singh Ji Shaheed. Baba Deep Singh Ji controlled the faujan before the split into 2 Dals. All were Nihang Singhs, and apart from a few small differences, Maryada of all original sampardas is very similar and backed up by Guru Ji's writings in Sri Dasam Granth and Sri Sarbloh Granth. Thats interesting. I have never heard much information about Bhai Soorat SIngh comapred to the hearings of Baba Deep Singh, Bhai Mani Singh, and Bhai Gurbax Singh. Exactly who is Bhai Soorat Singh? What year was he born?. WHen and were did he lead the Taksal?. Was this in a jungle. Did he eventually become Shaheed? What books has he written? Where was he at when Shaheed Bhai Gurbax Singh Ji became shaheed. Are you saying all orignial Taksalis were Nihangs. I will agree with this statement. On the same note I will say that the modern Nihangs are not the same Nihangs of the past. I doubt Nihangs of the past drank liquoir, and stood around when injustice and disrespect of Gurdwra Sahibs were taking place.

In regards to Sant Baba Nihal Singh Ji I highly doubt that Baba Ji said Naam Dhrir is not required. Could you provide Katha recording in which he says this. I myself have seen Baba Ji doing Swas Swas Naam Simran the same way the Jatha does. In regards to AKJ being a modern Jatha, that is to funny.Putting the word Modern next to Akhand Kirtani Jatha REALLY seems hilarious to a person who has sangat of AKJ Singhs and know there Maryada :lol: . They are ultra orthodox who are quite strict in Gurmat traditions. People commonly think that the "new" jathas do not understand Puratan Maryada. This is far from the truth. Just because a group has formed much after the religion has started it doesnt mean the group is unorthodox. Take the Hasidic Jews for example. Judaism is thousands of years old. The Hasidic Jews which no Jew will doubt are the most Orthodox and JEwsih Orientated among the Jews. Like the Sikhs, Jews also have been through difficult times. It was during their hard times and mingling with other cultures that people tried to distrot and water down their religion. This inspired a man to reform the Jewish RElgion. He was a man of mysticsim and sprituality he reformed the religion around 200 years ago, and now this group ( Hasidic people) follow the old traditions. These Hasidic Jews have no sense of modernism they do hardcore Bhagti. SImilarly the AKJ has a similar history to the Hasidic people. Bhai Randhir SIngh Ji was a great reformer who was deep into mysticsm and spirituality if you read his books you will not doubt this. He was a BrahmGiani-Mahapurush whose understanding of Gurmat Traditions was profound. In fact, Bhai Sahib had Darshan of Guru Sahib numerous times in which Guru jI would explain Gurmat to him the same way Guru Ji used to teach Sant Baba Harnam SIngh Ji ( Rampur Khera)Gurmat traditions. Bhai Sahib went through many struggles to re-establish these Gurmat practices. Truly nobody can doubt Bhai Sahibs saintliness. Bhai Sahib also had other devoted SIkhs with him who use to follow this way of Gurmat. They would do Naam Abhyiaas and Kirtan all day long without any sleep . Thats how much pyaar they had for GUrmat. THe simple people of Punajb used to things these SInghs are crazy. Because they renounced worldiness and were into hardcore Bhagti people thought they were krazy. The Jatha used to go around India and preach Tat Gurmat. This all went on during the British Raj. Similarily other great reformers were also esatblishing groups and trying to bring SIkhi back to its true roots. Nobody can deny that Sikhi has been through so much that its origins have faded during the process. When a group starts mingling with othe cultures they start adopting their practices and beliefs. This was a problem Sikhi went through and many great reformers who had no sense of wordliness or modernism try to reform Sikhi. For example Sant Baba Nand SIngh Ji of Nanaksar and Sant Sunder Singh Ji of Taksal. Therefore we cant assume the "new" reform groups have no understanding of Gurmat or the past. In regards to your belief that DamDami Taksal not being changed. The simple historical fact is that SInghs were in great danger they were living in the Jungles. They could not establish insitutions and manage these freely. That is just plain logic. IF you insist there was no breakage in the lineage then who took over the Jatha after Shaheed Baba Gurbax SIngh Ji and all the other Singhs of Jatha became Shaheed?? There was no Jathedar. ALso why is there no mention of the Damdami Taksal in British Historical books upon arriving in Punajb. There is alot of mention of Nihang SInghs but none of Dandami Taksal. Guru Gobind SIngh Ji Maharaji started this jatha for the purpose of teaching people how to recite Gurbani, it was not some type of institution like it is today. None of the Singhs were bound by this instiution. For example, Akali Baba Deep Singh Ji taught at this taksal and he also led an army of NIhangs. THe taksal was a school that taught recitation thats it. The teachers of this school had profound knowledge. For example Bhai Mani SIngh Ji had great knowledge of Gurmat he would record things like the practice of Naam Drir. But the Takal in the past was not an Institution like it was today. At the end of the day we shouldnt be attached to any group. If we have sangat of other Singhs this is a great blessing which we should be thankful for. We should enjoy moment with the sangat but there should no attachments/affiliations with certain groups. At the end of the day nobody can go with us. Those Gurmukhs we meet along the way will help along but not everyone belonging to a jatha isa Gurmukh. I have no doubts that reformers like Baba Nand Singh Ji , Baba Sunder SIngh Ji, and Bhai SaHIB BhaI Randhir Singh had great understaning of Gurmat. At the same time I have no doubts that a majority of the people who belong to their jathas could care less about Gurmat. They like to join this group or that group for the sake of joining groups and bashing other groups. Its more about territory and less about truth. They are engrossed in wordliness and modernism/maya and can careless about the Panth and Gurmat.The Goal should be to worship Guru Granth and serve Guru Panth we shouldnt let affilations to certain groups make us so ignorant that we talk down on other groups and say they are not puratan or have no understanding of Gurmat traditions.

If you continue to assert that " Mahapurukhs" have more special privelledge of giving Naam over Panj Pyaarey then thats your choice. If that is the case why isnt a special Mahapurkh invited in every Amrit Sanchar to give Gurmantar.Why Need Panj Payaarey to give Gurmantar if MahaPurush can do it. Can Babey give Amrit too? ALso, could you please provide Gurbani Tuk which states didfferent methods of Naam Simran,especially those taught by Mahapurukhs. Or could you provide any rehatname that states Naam can be given by " Mahapurkhs". I guess in the video below that Baba is giving Naam. http://www.panthic.org/news/0/ARTICLE/5107 Is this the type of methods you are talking about? Now all can see why I posted the strawman picture up for your post. Instead of responding to my point, you make a fake point, and you defeat the fake point pretending that you have defeated my point. This is an underhanded debate technique called ''strawman technique''. Never have I, nor has anyone else, stated that mahapurkhs can give gurmantar. Teaching a method of simran is different from giving Gurmantar. In fact, Bhai Rama Singh ji, 2nd jathedar of AKJ, discusses jugti of japping naam openly in his book. I respect that people feel it is sacred. However, I disagree where people say others MUST take Amrit from those who give naam dhrirta, which in this day and age is only one jatha. I see it as an attempt to push their beleifs onto other people. I am aware that Dhirti is instillation of gurmantr by a particular technique (and I know the technique as well), and not jugti (method) of doing simran. However, all punj pyare give gurmantr. Do you deny this??? The Methods of other punj pyare are no weaker. Otherwise how could you have such powerful mahapurkhs as Sant Jarnail Singh ji, who did not take naam dhrirta. Only punj pyare can give Naam. But, as you yourself have stated, giving Naam is different from jugti of japping Naam. There is no Gurmat basis for your opinion that Mahapurkhs cannot give ****JUGTI**** of how to jaap Naam ji. This is not written in any Gurbani, any dharmic granth, any rahit. All the groups that have lineages going back hundreds of years, meaning all the groups that kept the seena baseena rahits intact, also believe that Mahapurkhs can give jugti. the avastha of those who stand in the punj is on average lower today than it was in the past. If the punj had the same avastha as Guru ji during the Amrit sanchar, than they would all have the same gyan and all given the same rahit despite different jathas b/c they would know intuitively. They are Guru roop, it is shakti of Guru ji that enters their bodies for the Amrit Sanchaar to make Amrit. You yourself stated that naam dhrirti is different from jugti. Jugti of swas swas simran is common, nobody denied that. It is Naam Dhrirti that is uncommon, and in fact rejected by sampradas as required. You contradict yourself vir ji. Naam dhrir and jugti of japping naam are different things. In the qoute of yours above you are talking about jugti, and using the existence of the jugti as proof of puraatan existence of the particular naam dhrir technique used by AKJ. Proof of a particular jugti existings does not equal proof of Naam dhrirti being puraataan and proper rahit of instilling Naam in the panth. Guru Granth Sahib ji itself writes about other techniques of japping Naam: ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ ਬਾਣੀ ਜੈਦੇਉ ਜੀਉ ਕੀ ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ ਚੰਦ ਸਤ ਭੇਦਿਆ ਨਾਦ ਸਤ ਪੂਰਿਆ ਸੂਰ ਸਤ ਖੋੜਸਾ ਦਤੁ ਕੀਆ ॥ The breath is drawn in through the left nostril; it is held in the central channel of the Sukhmanaa, and exhaled through the right nostril, repeating the Lord's Name sixteen times. ਅਬਲ ਬਲੁ ਤੋੜਿਆ ਅਚਲ ਚਲੁ ਥਪਿਆ ਅਘੜੁ ਘੜਿਆ ਤਹਾ ਅਪਿਉ ਪੀਆ ॥੧॥ I am powerless; my power has been broken. My unstable mind has been stabilized, and my unadorned soul has been adorned. I drink in the Ambrosial Nectar. ||1|| ਮਨ ਆਦਿ ਗੁਣ ਆਦਿ ਵਖਾਣਿਆ ॥ Within my mind, I chant the Name of the Primal Lord God, the Source of virtue. ਤੇਰੀ ਦੁਬਿਧਾ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਸੰਮਾਨਿਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ My vision, that You are I are separate, has melted away. ||1||Pause|| ਅਰਧਿ ਕਉ ਅਰਧਿਆ ਸਰਧਿ ਕਉ ਸਰਧਿਆ ਸਲਲ ਕਉ ਸਲਲਿ ਸੰਮਾਨਿ ਆਇਆ ॥ I worship the One who is worthy of being worshipped. I trust the One who is worthy of being trusted. Like water merging in water, I merge in the Lord. ਬਦਤਿ ਜੈਦੇਉ ਜੈਦੇਵ ਕਉ ਰੰਮਿਆ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਨਿਰਬਾਣੁ ਲਿਵ ਲੀਣੁ ਪਾਇਆ ॥੨॥੧॥ Says Jai Dayv, I meditate and contemplate the Luminous, Triumphant Lord. I am lovingly absorbed in the Nirvaanaa of God. ||2||1|| If only swas swas simran was the best, than there would be no reason for Guru ji to write such a complex technique as the above in Gurbani, HE would have just given swas swas simran to everyone. bul chuk maaf for any mistakes or offence. I can never deny Gurmantar is given by Panj Pyaarey, that would be blasphemy, and I agree that water is turned into Amrit from Guru Jis Shakti. Similarily Naam Drir is given by GUru Jis shakti in which Naam/Gurmantar is instilled in the abhilakhi thus making swas swas automatic. Naam Drir is needed to learn Swas Swas technique. THrough Naam Drir the seed of Naam is sewn in the fabric ( core) of ones being. Veer Ji you stated " There is no Gurmat basis for your opinion that Mahapurkhs cannot give ****JUGTI**** of how to jaap Naam ji. This is not written in any Gurbani, any dharmic granth, any rahit. All the groups that have lineages going back hundreds of years, meaning all the groups that kept the seena baseena rahits intact, also believe that Mahapurkhs can give jugti" Im sorry but if its not contained in GUrbani or any rehatnamas then I cannot accept such things. That is just the method I follow. In Gurbani it is clear who can give Naam and who teaches knowledge/method of Swas Swas Naam SImran. Following Shabad explains Knowledge of breathing in and out and staying concentrated soley on VaheGuRU is taught by Guru Ji only. THe following Shabad outside and inside refers to swas because the next pangti Guru Ji talks about knowing yourself. One can only know themselves( their jot) through internal contemplation/meditation. Through this internal contemplation the unseen lord ( alakh) is revealed. When the happens dobuts are removed and one only thinks of VahGuRu when breathing Outside and Inside. bwhir BIqir eyko jwnhu iehu gur igAwnu bqweI ] baahar bheethar eaeko jaanahu eihu gur giaan bathaaee || Outside and inside, know that there is only the One Lord; the Guru has imparted this wisdom to me. jn nwnk ibnu Awpw cInY imtY n BRm kI kweI ]2]1] jan naanak bin aapaa cheenai mittai n bhram kee kaaee ||2||1|| O servant Nanak, without knowing one's own self, the moss of doubt is not removed. ||2||1|| In Gurbani there is only one technique of Naam Simran and that is GUrmat Sehaj Yoga. One can recite Naam Simran anyway they want this will bring GUru Jis happiness for sure. But in regards to techniques entailed in Gurbani there is only one mehtod which is written in Gurbani. In GUrmat Sehaj Yog power comes from GUrmantar not by mere foce of breath which is Hath Yog. The Shabad you provided refers to Hath Yoga which the GUru Sahib has clearly rejected. This technique you have refered to is considered as Pakhand by Guru JI beause learning any forms of Yog without the GUru is considered Pakhand. pwKMf kIny jogu n pweIAY ibnu siqgur AlKu n pwieAw ]12] paakha(n)dd keenae jog n paaeeai bin sathigur alakh n paaeiaa ||12|| Practicing hypocrisy, Yoga is not obtained; without the True Guru, the unseen Lord is not found. ||12|| qIrQ vrq nym krih auidAwnw ] theerathh varath naem karehi oudhiaanaa || Some make vows to visit sacred shrines of pilgrimage, keep fasts and live in the forest. jqu squ sMjmu kQih igAwnw ] jath sath sa(n)jam kathhehi giaanaa || Some practice chastity, charity and self-discipline, and speak of spiritual wisdom. rwm nwm ibnu ikau suKu pweIAY ibnu siqgur Brmu n jwieAw ]13] raam naam bin kio sukh paaeeai bin sathigur bharam n jaaeiaa ||13|| But without the Lord's Name, how can anyone find peace? Without the True Guru, doubt is not dispelled. ||13|| inaulI krm BuieAMgm BwTI ] nioulee karam bhueia(n)gam bhaat(h)ee || Inner cleansing techniques, channeling the energy to raise the Kundalini to the Tenth Gate, ryck kuMBk pUrk mn hwTI ] raechak ku(n)bhak poorak man haat(h)ee || inhaling, exhaling and holding the breath by the force of the mind - pwKMf Drmu pRIiq nhI hir sau gur sbd mhw rsu pwieAw ]14] paakha(n)dd dhharam preeth nehee har so gur sabadh mehaa ras paaeiaa ||14|| by empty hypocritical practices, Dharmic love for the Lord is not produced. Only through the Word of the Guru's Shabad is the sublime, supreme essence obtained. ||14|| Read the last two Gurbani Tuks that I have just posted, and compare it with the Pangtis you have provided. It is clear that the Pangti that you have provided is Hath Yoga which GUru Ji calls Pakhand, In this yoga the person forces there breath through their nostrils. IF you look at the second pangti that you provided you will notice that Bhagat Jaidev Ji is saying that he has given up this form in which one trys to control the breath by force. In the next Pangti he says he is now powerless, and he relys soley on the Naam which is in the mind. Only Guru Ji can instill Naam in the mind. Why in the pangti you provided Hath Yoga mentions reciting GOds name 16 times. In GUrmat there is no particualr number to recite GOds Name this is a mechanical process which the Yogis do. THe pangti you provided mentions reciting GOds name 16times why is that??? THis means the person is doing things through a mechanical way. In Gurmat Yoga love for GUrShabad aka Gurmantar is the basis of doing swas swas Naam Simran which each breath there are no numbers counted. When you love something there is no reason to count, counting is for people who do things in a mechanical way. THe pangti you provided demonstrates that this is not in line with GUrmat Sehaj YOga ( technique of Naam SImran in Gubani) this is Hath YOga which Bhagat Jaidev Ji is saying bears no fruit. He has given up this stuboorn forceful breath controlling method and has become powerless ; meaning he is no longer capricious and he has taken sole support in Naam . Here is the pangti you quoted. Again if you compare it with the Shabad I have provided you will notice that Guru ji is against this method. cMd sq ByidAw nwd sq pUirAw sUr sq KoVsw dqu kIAw ] cha(n)dh sath bhaedhiaa naadh sath pooriaa soor sath khorrasaa dhath keeaa || The breath is drawn in through the left nostril; it is held in the central channel of the Sushmanaa, and exhaled through the right nostril, repeating the Lord's Name sixteen times. Abl blu qoiVAw Acl clu QipAw AGVu GiVAw qhw Aipau pIAw ]1] abal bal thorriaa achal chal thhapiaa agharr gharriaa thehaa apio peeaa ||1|| I am powerless; my power has been broken. My unstable mind has been stabliized, and my unadorned soul has been adorned. I drink in the Ambrosial Nectar. ||1|| mn Awid gux Awid vKwixAw ] man aadh gun aadh vakhaaniaa || Within my mind, I chant the Name of the Primal Lord God, the Source of virtue. qyrI duibDw idRsit sMmwinAw ]1] rhwau ] thaeree dhubidhhaa dhrisatt sa(n)maaniaa ||1|| rehaao || My vision, that You are I are separate, has melted away. ||1||Pause|| So again it is clear that this method of Naam SImran is Pakhand and has no place in Gurmat. ONly method which is approved in Gurbani is the method which relys soley on Naam ( Gurmantar). Hath YOga can never be approved. The Jugti that Bhai Mani SIngh talks about is swas swas naam Simran and this method can only be taught if Naam is instilled in the abhilakhi. AS I have said above in Gurmat Sehaj Yoga breath is controlled by love for Gurmantar alone. For this to happen Gurmantar must be instilled in abhilakhi this can can only happen through the power of the most beloved the Panj Pyaarey. ALL sampradas have not retained the knowledge that was orginally bestowed upon them. It is plain fact that there was a time when Baham Mahants took over Gurmat Institutions and try to change Gurmat. I have said over and over doing Naam Simran in which ever method is great as long as it doesnt go against Gurmat. I wouldnt even consider Hath Yoga to be a method of Naam SImran because there is no focus on Naam. Doing naam simran is a great thing , no in fact its the best thing. SO why would I question or say only one way of Naam Simran is ok. I have only claimed that Swas Swas technique taught by Panj Pyaarey is the greatest aide in doing Naam Simran while sitting, eating, talking, or doing any other worldy activities and it hepls to get access to the Dasam Duaar quicker. This takes time though , and one has to keep strong Amrit Vela, Nitnem, Rehat, for this to happen.

I really do not feel comfortable talking about Naam Drir over the net. This is something highly sacred which is between the Abhilakhi and the Panj Pyaarey. When I received Naam from Panj and had the opportunity to the Naam Abhyiaas with the Panj it was one of the most memorable experiences of my life. Its a memory I will take to the grave with me. I just want to clear things up about Naam Drir. I think some people on this thread are confusing the term Naam Drir with jugti. Naam Drir is not a technique. Naam Drir is the instilling of Naam by the Panj Pyaarey in the presence of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj. Naam Drir is planting the seed of Naam within the Gursikh. Again Naam Drir is not a technique instead it is the instilling of Gurmantar Naam. When the abhilakhi is blessed with Naam from the Panj Pyaarey the Panj Pyaarey teach you how to do Kamaee of Gurmantar Shabad. It is at this point Swas Swas Naam Simran is taught and this is a precise method to make the seed of Naam grow within the Abhilakhi. So when the Gurmantar is given by Panj Pyaarey the practice or reciting Gurmantar is taught by the Panj Pyaarey in the holy hazoori of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj. Now the argument that states Mahapursh can give Naam technique has no Gurmat based backings. Naam is given only by Panj Pyaarey in the presence of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj. Panj Pyaarey can only give Naam and they are the only ones that can teach Abhilakhi to do Kamaee of Gurmantar at Amrit Sanchar. Veer Ji you wrote "True Mahapursh can see which level we're at and advise accordingly" This statement is somewhat misleading. How can we claim that a Mahapursh can see the level of an Abhilakhi and deny Panj Pyaarey of this power. If Panj Pyaarey do no have such power. Then do they have the power to turn water into Amrit. THe power of Panj Pyaarey is unlimited in the presence of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji they can bestow any power including the power of Naam. The gift of GUrmantar is an invaluable commoditie and nobody can take it away from you. Guru Sahib has made Panj Pyaarey the custodians of this priceless jewel which eventually opens up the gates of Dasam Dwaar. Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji has given sole authority to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and Panj Pyaarey. Guru Sahib says where there are 5 rehatdhari Gursikhs then I am present. So why cant the Panj Pyaarey see the level of the abhilakhi? If there are 5 Rehatdhari Sikhs then there is no doubt that they can teach proper Kamaee of GuRmantar. Over and Over in Gurbani it says Naam is given by the Guru. If naam is given by the Guru why cant Guru Ji teach the abhilakhi how to recite Naam why is there a need for Mahapursh to teach these things. All authority lies in Guru Jis hands. In regards to people believing original Sikh Sampardas did not commit to this particualr technique of Swas Swas Naam Simran taught by the Panj Pyaarey this is false. Bhai Mani Singh ( DamDami Taksal) who was in the presence of Guru Jis charan writes that Guru Sahib taught Mata Jito that method of Swas Swas Naam Simran which is the same method taught by Panj Pyaarey today. You also stated "Bhai Randhir Singh Ji preferred the AKJ technique (which is the same as the Namdhari one) and so the 5 Pyare in AKJ Amrit Sanchars teach that jugti" This is untrue . Swas Swas Naam Simran is not just a mere technique that Bhai Sahib preferred. Nor is it a technique that he invented. In his book about he mentios when he first took Amrit from the Panj Pyaarey some outsider came in the Amrit Sanchar and whispered a false Mantar. He later was blessed with Gurmantar from Panj Pyaarey and taught swas swas naam simran, so how can we claim that he invented this method. NaamDharis no longer give Naam Drir. They did in the past under the Panj Pyaarey. This was the old times when they had great leaders like Baba Ram SIngh Ji. Now they are a joke who have their own GUru or Mahapursh leader. Today they dont even believe in concept of Panj Pyaarey and Amrit. So how can they give Naam Drir? Those people that complain that "mann nahi tikdha"? do so because they lose heart fast. Patience is needed when doing Naam Simran. For the swas to settle in each breath it takes time depending on the individual. It doesnt mean one should give up on the method. Does that mean if the mind is not intune during Amrit Vela or nitnem we should give up on these things. We need to take heart have faith in Guru Ji, and the rest will fall in its place. Swas Swas Naam Simran technique taught by Panj Pyaarey helps in the constant recitation of Naam Simran throughout the day. Whether one is working or sitting or talking to others this technique taught by Guru Sahib is very helpful in teaching one to do SImran with each breath even in the midst of doing worldly activities. Im not saying its the only technique, people are creative and they can come up with other ways.If these ways suit them then thats great. I am happy that they are doing Naam Simran, so I am not going to question these practices. Im not of the opinion that everyone must do Swas Swas Naam SImran. This method is taught by Guru Sahib Ji in which Naam is planted and then the method to teach abhilakhi how to make this seed ascend is a rare method indeed. If it is written on a persons forhead to learn this way then they alone will be blessed with this gift by Panj Pyaarey. siqgur dwqY nwmu idVwieAw muiK msqik Bwg sBwgy ]1] sathigur dhaathai naam dhirraaeiaa mukh masathak bhaag sabhaagae ||1|| The True Guru, the Giver, has implanted the Naam, the Name of the Lord, within me. A very blessed and fortunate destiny is recorded upon my forehead. ||1||

beej Mantra and Gurmantar refer to the same thing. Its when Panj Pyaarey sow the seed of Gurmantar within your body.