ravindersidhu

this wasn't about destroying the sih population it was about staying in power by by playing this political game of getting punjab waters to haryana and rajasthan and get those hindu votes, and also she said punjab could only have chandigarh if it gave abohar and fazilka to haryana, both these provinces r prosperous, this would not have been a settlement but a large compromise. i suggest you shld read a few books about sant jarnail singh both pro and anti i've read some pro stuff on the internet, and i read 'The Punjab Story' and mark tully and satish Jacobs 'Amritsar: Mrs Gandhi's Last Battle' mark tully's book sums up alot, Punjab story is a ridiculous book it has 4-5 authors 2 chapters abt operation bluestar. the popularity of sant jarnail singh was growing in villages of punjab, and also they say he had a strong intelligence network, his men were placed in many govt departments, and his armed followers who lived in the goldentemple numbered more then 200, now if u look in a neutral kind of way,..... no govt would allow u to have so many weapons so many gernades and machine guns with an army numbering in hundereds... not that i am anti bhindranwale, but this attack on the golden temple was becoming more and more inevitable, and only bcoz of the militants resciding in it.... the central govt didn't want this to stop coz they were waiting for it to get bad enough to send the army and kill sant bhindranwale and put and end to the figure operation bluestar aimed at killing all militants in the golden temple, but it was so poorly planned they underestimated the militants so badly, the army thought all would surrender in 1-3 hour or so, later an military official gave a statement to mark tully saying 'if i had such motivated men under me.... just 3 divisions' I'd take on pakistan anytime'

as much as i know at santji's time indra gandhi's govt was banking upon the hindu vote so she wanted the akalis to compromise and give away as much water as possible to haryana and rajasthan, but santji put forth the anadpur resolutions for which the morcha stood and threatened to expose anyone who would settle for less then the resolution, so congress and all tried their best to discredit him, this way sikhs would hate him and it would be easier for akalis to compromise they say stuff like mark tully in his book says "cows were butchered and their body parts were thrown into hindu temples, DAL khalsa took responsibility for this" I don't think this could be possible in haryana hindu's pulled out sikh passengers from busses and shved them ...clubed 8 sikhs to death... burnt a sikhs gurdwara...(these were the works of haryana CM bhajan lal he was <Edited> ta something...can't recall) so santji said "kill those who have done this and i'll take care of the rest..." so the media said he is promoting terrorism, and is anti hindu( coz hindu militants did this in haryana) but few questions remain unanswered to me, i hope to find them in this book the gallant defender, but so far i havn't been able to find it here in delhi still looking...

now you know where it started for shivaji but he stodd for stuff Guru Ji never occupied any land or anything in all the battles he won you can read abt this at http://allaboutsikhs.com/gurus/guruhargobindi3.htm

i think this letter was written when atal bihari was the PM,whatever........... there is no justice for any of these ppl..... sad

SHABNAM HASHMI 4, Windsor Place, New Delhi Tel- 9811807558 Dear Prime Minister, I have just now down loaded these words from your official website: '…we do not believe that it is appropriate to use allegations or anything less than due process to make a subjective judgment to question a constitutional authority in India..' Thank you very much for saving Modi. In joining hands with the killer in pronouncing that thousands of activists , that all NGOs, that all fact finding teams of Human Rights Groups both from within India and other countries are lying. Thank you Prime Minister for acknowledging that thousands of innocent people were not butchered in Gujarat under his leadership, that hundreds of women were not gang raped, that innocent children were not thrown in fire. Thank you Prime Minister for acknowledging that Kausar Bano is just a myth. That she never existed. That her womb was never cut open by the Vishwa Hindu Parishad's goons, that her unborn child was never held on the tip of a spear, that the unborn child was never thrown in the fire. Thank you Prime Minister for acknowledging that over 2 lakh people were not rendered homeless. Thank you Prime Minister for acknowledging that thousands of activists and millions of ordinary people who voted the killers out of power were fools. Thank you Prime Minister for telling us that you are a great patriot. I will remain indebted to you for opening my eyes. I can sleep peacefully now. Gangraped , brutalized women, their breasts cut off, iron rods and wood inserted into their vaginas, blood oozing out from their bodies will never disturb me in my sleep. I will forget that I ever saw all that in those remote villages of Gujarat. I will forget Naroda Patia. I will forget everything. You are so nice Prime Minister. I wish I was also nice and clean like you. What can I do? I was not brought up to be so nice. My father unfortunately decided to fight the British. Unfortunately I was told in my childhood about the values that the Mahatma stood for. Unfortunately my mother also did not teach me the nice things. She was so wrong to teach me the difference between Hitler and any other elected leader. If I was also as nice as you are Prime Minister, I would not constantly feel ashamed at having voted for your government. Please do throw this in the dustbin so that you can also sleep peacefully. Sincerely Shabnam Hashmi 4, Windsor Place New Delhi Tel-9811807558 Cc:1. Mrs Sonia Gandhi 2. To All Media

mann ji nobody cares how much you spend on ur assets, but do u live in punjab, if a curfew is imposed does it afftect you profession or any daily routine, if the police is knocking on each door in the middle of the night looking for militants would u lose any sleep over it? these r the things i meant when i said u have NOTHING on stake

sorry didn't complete writing, so the thing is, who's decision is it, is it upto the sikhs living in punjab or is it upto NRI's? there r a few issue's, one's u told me about, but i don't think khalasthan is the only solution.... its not a bad idea to bring awareness amongst ppl, but there is a very thin line in bringing awareness and spreading hatred, which side of this line do we want to be on. its coz the west is better then india, if they were leaving india for pakistan, sri lanka nepal, then i would agree with you if you r not afraid of dying, then there is alot you shld have done for khalastan by now, making such a remark is completly unjust and shows your ignorance abt the people of punjab carrying around guns and calling ourselves the sher-ekhalistan or something will not serve any purpose, if the movement is righteous, if its proven that we cannot get article 25 changed one noncooperation movement against the indian govt will do it all and will get us support from forgien govt, a sikh must draw arms as the last resort coming forth with 20,000 armed men as per punjabi predators idea will take us back thru the entire cycle of events starting from 84

who r these "they " who don't wish to live in a place ruled by hindustan these "they" r already NRI's, coz i've never heard it from an indian that he wants khalasthan . .Bhai Bijla Singh Ji, I'm very sorry to have wasted as much of your time as I have, please refrain from expressing yourself so agressivly, I see your point very strongly, it will certainly be better if sikhs had a khalasthan of their own, india is definetly not the right place for any religion other then hinduism, we have the example to 84 riots and gujrat riots and seeing what happened to babri masjid, I agree with u on that(actually i read a old book distributed by dharam prachar commity, i think its written by sardar nachatter singh

if a khalasthan in what way will it change the life of the sikhs living in UK canada or US, but it will greatly change the lives of those living in punjab, and also those living in india ... dou you think all will be able to move over, or will all want to move over.... i don't think so, will the NRI sikhs move over? NRI's will not be the beaer of any consiquences, neither in the struggle or in the breaking away of punjab as khalasthan altho a few might contribute, but even they would not have to worry of their familes who r secure back home in some other country, where <admin-profanity filter activated> innocent families will bear the consiquences over here, so is it not their decision ...of those living in punjab or is it upto NRI to iniciate this theory based on exaggerated accounts or 'oppression of sikhs'

its easy to step forward and say it out loud "khalastan zindabad" when you nothing at stake, nothing to lose at worst you'll hear in the news few sikhs were killed/arrested those were khalasthan activists/terrorists, and you'll come back here and again say khalastan zindabad like a fearless lion, and return to your routine life. where as the affect of these activities on our lives is more close to reality. ppl here try to move ahead but lets put them back in that struggle which earns them bad names such as terrorist and what not, lets go back to the 80's where innocent sons were taken away form their homes, maharaja ranjit singh dreamt of khalsa raj, he was the king, has nothing changed since then, and if there shld be a khalsa raj... it shld've been thought over when the british proposed the idea of the sikh state, now is not the time, acting upon it now will only lead to more deaths and discrediting of the panth someone said a similar thing in the other kahlasthan thread, and i said come here take a look at other states and then speak to me of punjab, our villages r 100 times better then orissa, UP, or south indian villages, thats a nice way of putting it, expresses you personality and compassion for a fellow sikhs who is not sikh enough coz his opinion differs

Gupt daasan daas and sher punjabi r right

hey but that dosn't record from a mic, the procedure i told you abt records sound from the mic, so if you have an output cable from the phone plugged in where the mic goes, you can record your conversation(u can use a recording adapter for it, they're really cheap)

ppl have lives.... where will you find 20,000 men whom you can motivate to give up their lives for khalistan, .... and please be aware that indian sikhs don't see khalistan as a dream or goal they have to achieve, Warfare had greatly chnaged since then gorilla warfare is noo good, and as for 20,000 armed men, they will be bombed and gunned and curfews imposed on cities before you realise bhai sahib ji you are dangerously ignorant, sikhs did not quit the indian army when operation bluestar was carried out, and there were sikhs officers themselves carrying out the operation. and guns don't win wars, its tanks and jets , artillery warfare is too sophisticated to be wonover by gorilla methods, sikhs did defeat pakistan, but they were fighting under the indian army, they were provided resources, tanks planes etc, its not like they killed the pakistanis with mere rifles you can u say sikhs r discriminated if the indian prime minister is a sikh so please be more specific about the human rights problem, and how do you say being at "peace" got you nothing.... have u heard of babbar khalsa, BTF, and khalistan commando force(or a similar name) so there hasn't exactly been peace any khalistan activist will be arrested, coz in india its an anti-national thing, waheguru_fateh ji don't fall for tat article it dosn't have much truth in it, that stuff happened in the 80's and early 90's, not these days, it can be contradicted at several points, its too exaggerated Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

there is alot more to our religion then khalistan, it is definetly a good idea to educate ppl, but it will bring hatred in the hearts of many altho i'm not pro khalistan, i would say the demand for khalistan is natural after doing so much not one guy from the govt apologised, not even one man has gone to jail for it they apologised somewhere in 2003-2004 and not just that look at what they did to babri masjid, that is a clear sign that the majority can do as it likes but sikhs r a respected communbity in india, we don't call anyone bamann ji, hindu ji, bangali ji, madrasi ji, but sikhs r called sardar ji and the majority does not approve to khalistan, the NRI sikhs firmly believe in it, but they don't have much at stake ..., the sikhs living in india will be crushed in the mayhem too much will be lost in its formation,

Sat Sri Akal my brother If you want my view on it, u can read the last 2-3 pages of the Khalistan:Why khalistan thread I can post in the forum but i've already discussed it to death in my thread, and to re-post would be to get into a pointless debate... tho if u want i will post war can never liberate khalistan, how can you underestimate indian military so greatly check this link http://www.militaryfactory.com/countries/d...p?country_id=13 Available Military Manpower: 293,677,117 Annual Military Expenditure: $14,018.8 Million military manpower is 293,677,117 annual expenditure $14,018.8 Million Heavy Armor: 3,414 Combat Aircraft: 774 unless another country is willing to engage in war with india for the khalistan liberation .. war is not the answer and is khalistan is made, lets say we will sell food grain to india or else where at the right price to the utmost benefit of the farmer right now there is no tax on agriculture, in khalistan the primary occupation will be agriculture so you'll have to impose a tax on it, and what about all the stuff we get coz we're in india coooking gas, petrol, diesel, coal all of this comes at a subsidy unless we find a cheaper source(which is not likely) we'll have to buy it all from india and it'll nearly finish us financially after this intelligent manpower will be another problem and then infiltration from pakistan and drug smuggling will defame us, it will be there even if khalistan is made coz there r many in punjab who live for self-indulgence and if khalistan is to be ruled by the panj pyare that would mean no hindu or musalman living in khalistan will have the right to be in the governing body , our guru's never taught us to discriminate, this will give a bad impression of the panth world over and its also very likely that we will end up being ruled by religious fanatics making rules like a sikh who cuts his hair cannot be married in a gurdwara gurudwara's have 4 doors so everyone can be welcomed in there, and if we start differentiating amongst sikhs that not going to motivate ppl to grow hair, if you want to bring ppl back to the faith it has to be done by inspiring them, teaching them the value of sikh way of life, not by putting restrictions upon them and if someone is disrespectful to us for the khalistan issue give me that URL lets put forth a few questions and see if they have answers

SSA It doesn't matter how much they discredit Sikhs the point is we get our own country even if it means Sikhs being sacraficed our own Gurus gave up there own life and our Guru Gobind Singh Ji's sons had so much pyaar for sikhi they died for it and if we are so upset about losing people then what are we doing in a religion that has sacrficed many lives just for it to got here where it is today. Sikhs are still living bad in Indian Punjab today because of all the problems with water problems and it is that bad that farmers can't even produce there own crops there, expensive electricity of there own that they are paying for, kidnappings that are going on there and lots of other stuff. A true Sikh that takes amrit and does path and stuff will care for Khalistan and thats a fact the ones that don't care are those that follow the caste system drink sharab and have cut hair and want to be Punjabi because that suits them and Khalistan is a religious country for Amrit Dari's. Most important of them all is Guru Gobind Singh Ji said: "Raj Bina Nahin Dharam Chale Hain, Dharam Bina Sab Dalle Malle Hain" which literally means that sovereignty is a MUST in order for a religion to survive; otherwise religion perishes. Our Guru Ji wasn't telling us wrong and if we don't take action someday soon Sikhism just like the many other religons that have come and gone will only be Sikhism by name and it will be people that are getting drunk and having cut hair and following the caste system and doing drugs this is what alot of Sikhs are doing now because they don't have a clue about there religion or are not living properly. Feel free to post on the forum no-one will say anything to you post this if you wish we are all here to learn and are trying to improve Sikhi and how we can achieve Khalistan. I think personally we will only be able to achieve it through war and people dying i know it sounds bad but think about all those that gave up there lives for Sikhi in the past if we sit back and do nothing then they could have did that during there time and enjoyed the remainder of there life and they did not and made a great difference. If i don't reply back its because i am going to be going to a job and won't have internet for a few months. SSA =========================================== =========================================== Sat Sri Akal my brother If you want my view on it, u can read the last 2-3 pages of the Khalistan:Why khalistan thread I can post in the forum but i've already discussed it to death in my thread, and to re-post would be to get into a pointless debate... tho if u want i will post war can never liberate khalistan, how can you underestimate indian military so greatly check this link http://www.militaryfactory.com/countries/d...p?country_id=13 Available Military Manpower: 293,677,117 Annual Military Expenditure: $14,018.8 Million military manpower is 293,677,117 annual expenditure $14,018.8 Million Heavy Armor: 3,414 Combat Aircraft: 774 unless another country is willing to engage in war with india for the khalistan liberation .. war is not the answer and is khalistan is made, lets say we will sell food grain to india or else where at the right price to the utmost benefit of the farmer right now there is no tax on agriculture, in khalistan the primary occupation will be agriculture so you'll have to impose a tax on it, and what about all the stuff we get coz we're in india coooking gas, petrol, diesel, coal all of this comes at a subsidy unless we find a cheaper source(which is not likely) we'll have to buy it all from india and it'll nearly finish us financially after this intelligent manpower will be another problem and then infiltration from pakistan and drug smuggling will defame us, it will be there even if khalistan is made coz there r many in punjab who live for self-indulgence and if khalistan is to be ruled by the panj pyare that would mean no hindu or musalman living in khalistan will have the right to be in the governing body , our guru's never taught us to discriminate, this will give a bad impression of the panth world over and its also very likely that we will end up being ruled by religious fanatics making rules like a sikh who cuts his hair cannot be married in a gurdwara gurudwara's have 4 doors so everyone can be welcomed in there, and if we start differentiating amongst sikhs that not going to motivate ppl to grow hair, if you want to bring ppl back to the faith it has to be done by inspiring them, teaching them the value of sikh way of life, not by putting restrictions upon them and if anyone is disrespectful towards sikhs for demanding khalistan.. forward me that link and lets give them a few questions

Does anyone of you know ... when was it that santji started moving about with armed men, was it after the baisakhi of 1978 or was it after the death of lala jagat narian, why'd the police burn down his busses when they came to haryana to arrest him ?

sikh shaheed and shaheed i don't see much difference, he who dies selflessly is a martyr/shaheed, be he a sikh or not, the sacrifice is equal is everyway, Bhagat Singh volentarily gave himself for arrest rather then fleeing... took countless beatings from the british and also his hunger strike .. a man of great courage Jo Bole So Nihal Sat Sri Akal!

thats right, sikhs would be so much better with him, we need such a leader to get our ppl away from these bogus nirankari's and radhasawami's rather then finding truth in our gurur granth sahib ppl sit in satsangs like dumb sheep <_< @

sorry for posting another question instead of a reply, I too want to go for the solaris thing, but i have almost no exposure on unix, <_< what shld i do? how much familiar do i need to get with the unix enviorment b4 i go for professional training to benefit from it the most Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

thanks :TH: i almost felt stupid going through ll that

kidnaping for extortions, i was refering to the militants, I do agree there r a few amendments to be made in the constitution and i do not hate NRI sikhs, but some of u r seriously living in 1984, but all you in this forum, i look upon u as my friends and brothers and i'm maybe agruing but I'm not fighting you but i feel too much resentment/anger in some replies posted by a few.. not all, just a one or two, maybe i have deserved it. for the first time someone had refered to the actual problem, i am refering to S1ngh ji but sikhs do immigrate sue to unemployment, i myself would goto punjab if i could fin work there, but other then chandigarh(which is starting to get conjeste) i can't find work there free electricity was a ridiculous thing aimed at fooling the illeterate farmers so there is a problem, i agree.. but we should try to get these things changed even mark tully has said in his book that hindu practices find their way in rituals and practices of other religions, and its happening to sikhism, we need a figure like sant jarnail singh to bring our ppl togeather, if we do, getting article 25 changed would not be a challenge or else we should move towards a more difficult goal harnessing hatred and ager will not get us anywhere.

Veer ji you could use windows sound recorder to record sound in a wav file, and then convert it into mp3 using a converting software we use alive mp3 converter, try this for its activation User name : cyber Registration code: 10049-8488C-499B7 and as for windows sound recorder there is a major drawback, its gives you 60 seconds recording time, to beat that you will have to make a blacnk file, like make a 30 min long blank file, see below http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/ar...es/q82/2/15.asp

and what is the ratio of the indian sikhs against the sikhs coming from UK canada or US taking part in this khalistan struggle or the dharam yudh morcha, and if a sikh comes here to participate either of the 2 struggles his family back home is safe, but what abt the indian sikh, and how many innocent Uk canadian or US sikhs have been killed in the struggle under fake encounters, or how many have had militants come in for shelter how many have been kidnapped for extortions in punjab all this was very common 8 ppl were kidnapped from my village at one instance, none were abused by the militants, but they were kidnapped

if its penned down that a sikh is a hindu, that dosn't make me hindu the majority always finds its way faster, kartar singh sarabha came from the US to fight coz he believed in it and he acted upon it, but to believe in something and not to act upon it..... is that the righteous action of a true sikh. I don't think so and the majority believes in her and not in sant bhindranwale, very few believe in him being right in doing all he did, many believe that he was responsible for the killing, and also for the 4 dead bodies found in the drain coming out of the golden temple. so the way ppl see it is that indra gandhi brought an end to it all, sant jarnail singh bhindranwale is nothing to them. if you can anyway help bring awareness to indian sikhs that he was not a villan, I would be greatful to you for all my life and have u heard of the term the british came up with 'hindu-sikh'