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In modern civiilsed socities and nations.... murder is treated as the most serious crime you can commit and usually second is rape. Now how comes we are seeing the rape cases highlighted in the white western british media but not the murders of 2 innocent peaceful Sikh protestors in punjab? The taking of life is ending their time on earth, a rape victim however will have a long recover ahead of them but still have the right to life. So What is this? Why the hypocrisy and slience and duplicty by the British news media like BBC and sky news for example? Why bash Indian society and Indian government over womens rights and the lack of justice in rape cases yet taking an innocent human Indian life by the Indian state is not highlighted? the lack of justice for victims of anti-sikh genocide and rape of many Sikh females by congress party supporters still awaiting justice in new delhi why not highlight that too? We can clearly see the racist white atheist anti-sikh bias and agenda. Bash the ethnic brownie Asian people (who number more than a billion human beings) about their few rapist scumbags in their socities but not highlight the good they do in the world nor highlight the many innocents killed in their lands by their oppressive successive governments that the British white atheist majority state has huge economic deals with.

Will repeat the post I posted on the other thread ============= Just saw that and oh dear another face in palm moment he totally ruined the sikh image by clashing with presenter and issuing a protest at the end when they had finished the topic on the issue. I agree he wasn't given a chance to air his views the 4 non-sikhs guests there were hostile and keen to bash the Sikh protestors but jagmeet should have remained slient and retained his composure rather than giving a negative impression of turbanned Sikhs that jagmeet has now left many viewers. The BBC deliberately choses Sikhs like non-british born jagmeet who may have the passion for the cause but have low IQ's and understanding how the white british pro-atheist pro-feminist pro-gay and pro christian / jewish media works to air their views because they want to give the narrative that only m0ronic thugs are protesting.

I think even if jagraj singh was there they would have still giving him a hard time and not let him speak, had it been a jew there a muslim there or a catholic there who are all against inter-faith marriages in their religions they would have had an easier ride so basically those non-sikhs there had an anti-sikh agenda. But aslo because when they see the turban and huge beard they automatically have hate in their hearts and negative connotations because of the whole muslims and islamic terrorists ruining the turban and beard image. So to give the right impression to the wider audience is an important step which jagmeet missed totally. There should have been a confident and wise turbanned Sikh there or a Sehajdhari Sikh there who is well versed with Sikhi and has a high IQ and media savy. The problems within Sikh circles is that often the most passionate Sikh with low IQ and no media understanding gets to be put forward for hugely important issues of being spokesmen or representatives for the community and they tend to mess things up big time just like we saw here. The BBC and other western white outlets wont stop getting pendu's to represent the Sikh community because their agenda is to show our community as in a negative light as possible. That's just how their covert racism works

Just saw that and oh dear another face in palm moment he totally ruined the sikh image by clashing with presenter and issuing a protest at the end when they had finished the topic on the issue. I agree he wasn't given a chance to air his views the 4 non-sikhs guests there were hostile and keen to bash the Sikh protestors but jagmeet should have remained slient and retained his composure rather than giving a negative impression of turbanned Sikhs that jagmeet has now left many viewers. The BBC deliberately choses Sikhs like non-british born jagmeet who may have the passion for the cause but have low IQ's and understanding how the white british atheist christian. / jewish media works to air their views because they want to give the narrative that only m0ronic thugs are protesting.

I'm not on about Hindu's we all known on this forum that Hindu women and non-high caste hindus in general were violently oppressed hence why Sikhism came about and was a danger to the ruling Indian powers of the day. You failed to address the questions on Islam I put to you. Muslims know in their hearts that women had it pretty good pre-islam but because they need brownie points from muhammad to interceed on them on day of judgement before allah they cant go against the brainwashing propaganda they been fed about non-muslim societies before and after islam's advent. I know how the muslim mind works and it is brainwashed pretty hard. Only once the muslim gets some intelligence and ability to think freely will he/she begin to criticise the shortcomings of Islam, muhammad and quran/hadiths. Eventually free themselves from this violent backward abrahmic cult

ignorance is bliss eh? Don't question anything the SGPC cultists say. Just follow their nonsense edicts Whereas our Guru Ji wants us to question everything, learn life, this world and about Waheguru our creator and act upon Guru Ji's glorious wisdom and teach others about Sikhi.

This is why most people on the forum think your a muslim. The propaganda that muslims peddle out is that arabs used to bury their daughters yet where is your proof? Any non-baised non-islamic sources? Even if that was the case and that is what they used to do to show how bad women were treated before islam and what rights they had then explain to me how khadijah prophet muhammads first wife was able to be a rich business woman and have muhammad work for her before he started to get the strange visions to start new abrahmic cult of islam? Also explain to me how comes women were allowed to be musicians, goddesses, poets and warriors in pre-islamic pagan hindu arab societies but after islam came around all those freedoms and female orientated rights were slashed under punishment of death? How did islam liberate women from oppression? more like it put women under more oppression from being able to truly think and express themselves.

No the British imperialists knew exactly what they were doing they were gifting and befriending the smaller Sikh punjabi kingdoms south of the sultej river that weren't exactly on friendly terms with Maharajah Ranjit Singh's ever expanding military powerful Sikh empire. And funding the dogra hindu punjabi sarkar-e-khalsa ministers and generals within the government to cause subversion in favor of the British east indian company Christian white invasion to come. They also encouraged and funded the moslem uprisings against Sikh rule in peshawar and kashmir just like they funded the jihadi libyan uprisings in 2011 and syria in present times. Sikhs dealt with the moslems easily back in the days because they took no nonsense from them and dealt with the jihadi's with an iron hand and even had afghan and punjabi nationalist moslems killing the islam supremist jihadis because Sikh rule was really good for them and kept the foreign trouble causing british goray out. But the hidden enemy within the Sikh government (ie the hindu punjabi dogra's, the hindu punjabi brahmins and the turncoat Sikh army generals) that were brought off by the British was what really weakened the state and therefore the Sikh empire had become easier to fight when maharajah ranjit singh eventually passed away. His offspring were picked off one by one because the dogra ministers faciilited it and they also wanted to take power after their demise but didn't get fat chance of that cos the white british christian imperalists wanted full control and power of punjab and didnt want to share it with the indigenous punjabi's. Some Sikh and even hindu ministers within the Khalsa govt like Mul Raj did try causing a uprising against British rule by starting the 2nd anglo Sikh war but wasn't successive in over throwing the invaders who had infiltrated deeply within the centres of power in Punjab by then. Had the lunatic British White Christian Imperialists not landed in India, I am certain the Sikh empire would have stretched from India to saudi in a very short time span such was the thirst for war and conquest upon lands of those who had persecuted Sikhs. And now we all can see the consequences of having large numbers of muslim demographics and many muslim nations that the british imperialists help create. Muslims in general and as a collective don't want other religions and communities to survive and if they do managed to survive, they will have to live under serve duress, subjugation and oppression from Islam until they submit and convert.

LOL save he melodramatics for the pendu simpletons. The educated Sikhs amongst us know the solutions to problems Sikhi is facing and how to best to overcome them. SGPC was founded to reduce our numbers and they doing a pretty good job by not translating and spreading SGGS Ji to non-Sikh populations and lands.

It's not about fairness its about having foresight of the consequences of not allowing Sikhs to check the growth of Islam and spread of muhammadans. The white british christians back in the days thought they could kill off the muhammadans if they tried to over throw the British rule over lands they were living in, which was the case in most battles except in afghanistan because they didnt understand the mentality of the afghan muslims the punjabi Sikhs did and were successful in defeating the afghan / pathan muslims because of the die hard no fear attitude Sikhs had back then and they were literally going to war with pathans in a do or die situation so that only Sikhs reigned supreme with brute physically strength. The British white Christians of the east india company were never tested like that in battle like the battle hardened punjabi Sikh forces were. The white Christian invaders relied on their their superior weaponry, military strategy and military intelligence to weasel their way taking over lands. The Sikh empire did not pose a direct threat to the British occupation of indian kingdoms. Ranjit Singh's powerful Sikh empire did threaten to take over afghanstan but because the British were obsessed with not allowing the Russians taking over that strategic important land locked afghanistan they had to try and defeat the Sikh government one way or another. And the educated amongst us all know how they did it just how their offspring are now illegally taking out governments in muslim occupied middle east and north african countries under false pretexts.

So have a limited number of saroops? You are thinking like a dinosaur aren't you I fundamentally disagree with that old style thinking on this issue. The reason why we matha tek to the saroop is not because of the physical book and paper but because of the knowledge contained within the scriptures. Our simpleton punjabi pendu's will needlessly die saving the honour of the physical book but will not die to learn what Guru Ji is saying in the scriptures and rather be stuck in the past or take things literally when they are meant metaphorically. The book back in the days was easy to attack by anti-sikh people who were persecuting and exterminating the Sikhs to extinction so thus the limited number of saroops had to be guarded as if it was the living Guru himself in that form. Now that we have electronic media we can let Guru Ji be accessed to billions of people. In a way you have a point about beadhi happening more often if more copies are printed but now that we live in a modern electronic tech age.... say if someone wanted to print a copy of SGGS Ji out and burn it no one can stop that happening. And that saroop of the home printed out copy is just as valid as the one contained in some highly decorative book paper and binding. It will be still sacrilege. So we need to understand it was the Sikh ideology (within the scriptures) that the muslim zealots and the hindu kings with brahmin priests were trying to destroy not the physical book for being as if it was living Guru. The knowledge the ideology within the scriptures was their goal to destroy because it lifted people out of the slave mentality of arabramic cult islam and brahmin hegemony of hindu caste system. Now we have dinosaur Sikhs like yourself who don't want to spread Sikhi but want Sikhi to be contained to a small sect group of gyani's who can actually read gurbani but rather be watching porno on their mobile fones when they think no one is looking or falling asleep cos they bored of reciting the same hymns day in day out. And kids not understanding or caring for what Guru ji is saying cos they don't understand gurmukhi so think we worship the physical book like its some kind of hindu idol.

Famous greek homosexual warrior Alexander the great shafted the Afghans and particular pathans so good that they still to this day have this practise of bacha bazi in their code of conduct pasthunwali......a disgusting child abuse practise they inherited from their greek conquerors / masters. Alexander the great was defeated by King porus of Punjab and had to leg it back to europe via the sea route cos the Punjabi's were bad azz warriors as they are still to this day. Furthermore the Punjabi Sikhs under the reign of Maharajah ranjit singh defeated the muslim afghans in many battles and conquered afghan land taking the important trade city of peshawar and taking the Sikh empire borders right up to the khyber pass. Had the white Christian british m0rons of the time not came in the way of the Sikh Punjabi empire progression Sikhs would have taken the whole of afghanistan, persia and eventually saudi and the world would be in a much better place under Sikh rule and domination than it is right now under the shadow of Islamic rule and jihadi's running around aided by the evil white western banksters / european royal families.

I would agree with that, I once spoke to this muslim woman at uni on the day after 9/11 happened she wasnt very religious just was islam cultured and wanted to defend Islam seeing it was coming under attack from whites who were blaming Islam for the attacks. She created a website listing the benefits of muslim women in Islam and one of the benefits she listed was that men must pay for their womens upkeep and maintenance and if he was to divorce her she gets to keep the house or something along those lines. Now if anyone analyses a typical muslim marriage how often do you see the muslim woman actually conforming to every islamic sharia requirement to qualify for the benefits of Islam if she is betrayed and divorced? Furthermore these women hardly follow most of the requirements of a muslim woman yet they want to enjoy the benefits of secular democratic rights and freedoms in non-muslim societies. And when the muslim marriage breaks down how many muslim women get to keep their house or get anything for up keep of their livelihoods and offspring? Hardly ever.... while the muslim man simply moves on with his life marrying another woman and having kids with her and not granting the islamic share of what he is required to pay out to his ex-wife. Muslim women are sold a traditionalist dream under Islam but hardly ever get to see the benefits, and the hardships they often will have to endure are often passed off as a test by allah. So does allah want all or most muslim women to suffer and most muslim men to enjoy the benefits? Seems like a very unfair setup to me.

Having witnessed countless incidents of saroops of SGGS Ji being burnt and mistreated over the years and Sikhs getting worked up and even killed for protesting against the desecration. Is it now high time that SGGS Ji copy's are handed out to every Sikh and every non-Sikh that wants to learn about Sikhi instead of giving saroops out to people incapable of protecting the sanctity of it? If we take a look at the abrahmic cults of Christianity and Islam one of the major reasons they spread was the ability to hand out copies of the Quran and Bible to non-believers so that they could read too and learn. If Sikhs started to do this we will see a many fold increase in our numbers. We will have the ability to take over populations and lands occupied by these backward cults and also take out the power of people inflicting harm to saroop of Guru Ji. As there would be millions of copies, they can take out a few saroops like back in the days to try and halt and disrupt the spread of Sikhi but once there's millions of copies they cant stop the tide of Guru's ideology reaching billions. Another reason why Sikhs revere the saroops of Guru Ji is because it was hard to hand copy them and there was only limited numbers of these saroops back in the days. So these scriptures had to be protected as if the hand written book prints was the actual living Guru cos the anti-Sikh fascists wanted to wipe out all traces of our religion by destroying the saroops. And now that we have tech to mass reproduce the scriptures there is no excuse for not doing this.

Exactly. Because they keep their muslim girls brainwashed often dictating to them not to date any non-muslims and usually covered up or locked up and heavily monitored by social circle of muslim peers. Sikhs don't have that control freaky society or nature generally hence why Indian girls are easily victimised by non-Sikh backward mentality guys. And lets face it women are like sheep and are pretty stupid as a gender they can excel in many things but when it comes to matters of the heart and knowing the agenda of enemies of your community they don't have a clue how men think. They live in a bollywood/hollywood love conquers all bubble and only when they get shat on and deceived by the non-Sikh do they wake up but by then its too late its way too late to offer anything to Sikhi or their parents cos the non-Sikh wants to reduce your numbers and easiest way he does that is to breed with your females ensuring they destroy your communities numbers so that your religion vanishes in the history books. Islam is an extremely male dominated religion, and the muslim women within it have stockholm syndrome where they suck up to their islamic male masters/abusers so that they pretend they are not the victim of islam ideology because Allah knows best and wanted what is happening to them to happen. Islam shafts women prettty good and puts them in their place (2nd / 3rd class citizen) as per muhammad's request in his quranic teachings and his sunnah.

Thats a totally different argument and out of context of the meat debate currently unfolding. Gurbani will state many things that may seem contradictory in nature but when you look at the wider picture and wider message Guru Ji is saying its basically do good and use common sense and worship your lord creator waheguru for he has given you all that makes you alive in this human form and this planet. That's he central message we Sikhs should be focusing on not whether eating meat or a plant is sinful or not. After all atoms in meat are the same in plants in the end we all come from the one and we will all return to the one if we get things right the Sikh way in this life.

Sikhs are lazy we dont give a flying duck as much as the jews and muslims about their faith. Sikhs need to get mad enough to take action rather than hold all the anger in and complain about it in forums before a change starts to happen and when I mean action I dont mean go around bashing haters of Sikhs physhically. I mean challenge the narrative, created a media storm against anti-sikh personalities. I remember this jumped up holier than though white Christian/atheist canadian journalist was abusing Sikhs and aligning them with islamic jihadi terrorists and taking the side of the Indian govt state terrorism. A few Sikhs from different countries got together and stormed his blog with factual information and exposed him as a bigot and his racist agenda against Sikhs. We showed how he does not talk about white terrorism when visible turbaned Sikhs have been victims of race hate attacks by them since 9/11 we should andres brevik the freemason white christian terrorist who murdered all those innocents in norway yet this journalist didn't denounce white terrorism yet wanted Sikhs to denounce Khalistani militants. We showed the USA and other white majority nations robbing and raping and murdering millions of innocent civilians in many countries to steal their resources.... so in the end white privilege was exposed and he shut his blog comments and deleted his anti-sikh article. Without Sikhs taking action like that we wouldnt have exposed the racist m0ron, Until Sikhs become like cobra's using online tools against haters of Sikhs then this situation will carry on. When Sikhs take their faith seriously and expose anti-sikh individuals on mass via Internet sites and social media then a change will happen.

Then where is your daya (if your vegetarian) when you consume the body of plants? You know in Sikhi we believe plants have souls too right? Or does their life not matter to you...(again that's if your vegetarian).

well said Islam's time has come and gone on this earth, It's due time for Sikhi to take over.

Don't matter what they think and what I think. What guru thinks is more important. Basics of Sikhi have their interruption of Gurbani, others have their own and I have my own. To me Guru Ji talks common sense and common sense is if you can eat plants which have souls too according to Sikhi then there shouldnt be a problem in you eating meat the sin does not lay in the body of what you consume the sin lays in the act of not remembering God is the sustainer and giving you sustenance. This is the message Gurbani is saying... but most are not intelligent enough to see that argument they rather have low IQ discussions about eating meat or not is sin or not when its totally irrelevant. Guru says eat what you like as long as you remember your creator who gave you that food in order for you to survive

All meat is allowed, in sikhism if its fit for human consumption its allowed because gurbani argues that even eating plants is a sin because you are taking life away. And Sikhi believes plants have souls too so all these veggies are basically killing also to sustain themselves. Recent studies have also confirmed that plants do have a sense of pain when they are cut even if they don't have a central nervous system.

Most Sikhs don't convert non-sikhs and aren't encouraged to have huge families unlike moslems who do hence so many moslems in pakistani occupied punjab. If Sikhs wanted to be fascists like muslims have been and are then there would have been no muslims left in indian punjab after 1947 and moves would have been made to convert whole of kashmir to Sikhi and other neighbouring states. Sikhi being a righteous humanitarian religion has allowed Islam to take advantage because lets face it islam is a pretty backward neanderthal low IQ conquesting cult making God look like some bipolar angry vilian and thus that deserves to be booted into the dustbin of history. The sooner moslems realise this the sooner there will be less aggravation with non-muslims of the world. What means did I suggest you find objectionable?

Nothing I'd happily eat beef but most Sikhs dont because if their of indian extraction chances are they adopt the hindu culture of not eating meat at all but if they do they tend to eat everything except beef cow mata of the hindu's. And Khalistani's are right wing you have to be by default. I am a Khalistan supporter and I dont think there is a left wing khalistani until it is established and there is a working parliament maybe a left wing will arise but left wingers tend to be liberal who would weaken the khalistani state allowing non-sikhs too many liberties.

Palm on face moment Since when Sikhi wasnt about converting people? Sikhi isn't a birth cult where you can only be born into it, its not an exclusive club for punjabi castist nationalists. Sikhi is way of life and an ideology that needs converts needs adherents to survive and propsper.

Thats islam mate, they love to rub other peoples noses in it taking the honour of the non-muslim woman. Islam teaches that filth so its brownie points for a muslim to convert the unbelieving kafir girl to allah/muhammads arab cult. In Sikhi you dont get brownie points from God if you convert a non-believer nor do you get brownie points bringing home a non-Sikh girl to marry even if you do convert her this sort of thing isnt encouraged but I know for a fact in Islam its highly encouraged to convert marry a non-muslim woman because I have muslim girl mates and they told me how their brothers were allowed to marry white and Indian hindu/sikh girls but if they wanted to do the same their parents would disown them. Islam is to blame for vast majority of using females to get one over the other community.