SinghWarrior

If this committee member has resigned, it's a bold step. If the committee are acting like mahants in Gurdwaras, and using sangat income for their personal pleasures rather than Gurmat, then it is better not to be associated with such people. These committee members will have their come-uppance at some point. If they think they can do their "chalaakiaan" and create a separate charity/committee to think they will stop the sangat complaining about their actions, they are living in cloud cuckoo land. Bottom line is that sangat money has been used to fund the hall. Therefore, no meat and alcohol. Guroo Jee will do his kirpaa and the continued arrogance of these committee means they will get sajaa in this world and in dharam raaj, unless they change their ways.

This meeting is promising news, but what is the Saturday open meeting about? Are they trying to get their congregation to approve of their booze-ups?

How disappointing. I'm sure it doesn't take a detective to work out that there must be a clear link between the cancellation of the martial arts classes and the pressure on the committee to stop parties, booze and meat at the "Sikh" Cultural Centre.

Satkaar campaign always tells the sangat to be calm, respectful and courteous when speaking to committee members. I think that extends to posting on SikhSangat too. The Ramgarhia Birmingham committee kept bringing up posts made by "MentalSingh" as being unsubstantiated allegations on Panth Time. We have to be careful here - we are ALL rightfully angered and appalled by the MahaBeadbi and anti-Gurmat practices of these committees, but this shouldn't mean we ourselves lose our Sikhi virtues. Let's not try to be deliberately offensive, and make sure we never wilfully lie or spread malicious rumours about anyone. When I was at the Grays protest, some of the committee guys their tried to use postings on SikhSangat as an excuse to deflect attention away from the real issues. I'm sure the Dudley lot will do the same. Anyways, back to the topic - any updates from local Sangat in Dudley?

What's going on? Have the committee agreed to a meeting, as the Satkaar committee originally requested?

I hear the committee have taken off the "Sikh Cultural Centre" sign from the party hall, which can be seen in Post #3 of this thread. Apparently, they are trying to make the claim that the Gurdwara does not own the hall, and it is not linked to the Gurdwara. These tricks will not fool the Sangat. The charity accounts clearly show that the hall belongs to the Gurdwara, and it is part of the same charity. I also heard that they said in the Diwan yesterday that parties will carry on regardless, and they will not stop. I really hope this is not true and I heard wrong. :umm:

Since we are all taking about facts: FACT: the committee are more interested in putting the Guroo-roop Sangat/Gurdwara's resources into subsidising their meat shraab jollies rather than pure Sikhi parchaar. FACT: the committee are treating Guroo Jee's Golak for their selfish purposes rather than Guroo Jee's purposes. FACT: the Dudley committee-wale, and people like them, should have absolutely no role to play in our Gurdwaras' management.

Good news. What is especially encouraging is that the Panth is waking up to Satkaar issues of Than Than Than Guroo Granth Sahib Jee. 12 calls to the community hall from sangat in a couple of hours is good form. If Panth keeps Satkaar of Guroo Jee at forefront, it will always be in ever more Chardikala.

I had a chat a few days ago with the sewadars, and my "shankae" were cleared. If you really want to know, you should call the number provided above. I think they will be putting up a more complete strategy in the coming days, though understandably, they have more immediate priorities. However, please do not let this discourage you from donating. As Tesco's say, "Every little helps"!

I don't get how the Glasgow Gurdwara can be complicit in this. Which one is it? They should be named and shamed.

I understand Giani Sukha Singh Ji goes to this Gurdwara, and he was even a Granthi there, but the Sikhi principles he does parchaar of means the committee now see him as a threat and try to reduce his influence amongst the youth.

I've heard from someone that the committee have just submitted plans (costing £5,000) to the local council for the extension, part of which includes another separate hall so that Muslims can also hire the hall out. Is this true?

Singh Sabha Southall would prefer that their Sangat money is used to pay the £150k litigation expenses of committee members against each other, rather than Gurmat parchaar!!!

:waheguru: The Academy is doing an excellent job. In fact, every Gurdwara should be doing the Parchaar that the Academy is doing. It's a shame that the Gurdwarae with money are opening up party halls/booze clubs, and the actual Gurdwarae that are doing Parchaar are financially troubled. I've only been there once for a Kirtan Diwan and was blown away by the Seva Bhaavnaa of the kids, the spiritual feel of the place and the Satkaar for Maharajh. The Academy kids also Chardikala Parchaariks, for example, when they speak at the '84 rally. It's a worthy cause for the Panth to support!

Agree. Sikh Channel was excellent in breaking news about Ludhiana Kaand and the recent Kaand in Pind Bhikhi/Sant Baba Baljit Singh Ji Dadu Sahib Wale's arrest. It presents Panthic news very well. There's some way for it to go before it is truly Panthic, but it took a tentative step forward with the show it permitted explaining Dasam Granth/Dasam Bani which it aired live on Sunday evening - personally, I found it an extremely inspiring show. If it carries on like this, it will gain the confidence of the youth.

Akal Takht's sandesh expressly forbids naach, gaana and tapnaa, so there is an issue with non-alcoholic and non-meat parties with Bhangra and Giddha. There are some Gurdwaras which permit kids parties, with bouncy castles, toys, games, egg-less cakes, etc., which is fine, as there is no Bhangra, Giddha or Western Music.

I'm naturally inclined to be cautious until the meeting with them has actually taken place, but this is definitely good news and a step in the right direction.

Sikhpaji - you are clearly a committee member of Ramgarhia Birmingham or very closely linked to it. If you're such a hero, why don't you reveal who you are before asking the same of others? I think Satkaar are being very honourable and giving the committee every chance, despite having the likes of "Sikhpaji" making provocative and offensive statements. From the latest Satkaar update, it seems the committee are using the oldest tricks in the book to divert the issue, by branding the Satkaar campaign as extremist and casteist - TYPICAL, when they have nothing else to defend their actions. No doubt, when the protest does eventually happen, the Ramgarhia Birmingham committee will turn round and say that they were never given a chance to meet to resollve this. It's been over a month now and they still refuse to meet. This shows they have something to hide and they know what they are doing is wrong, though they are too weak to overcome their own egos and close the party hall.

How can meat and alcohol at the hall named after Baba Jassa Singh Ji Ramgarhia be a separate issue from everything else that goes on there? You can't claim kudos for the positive things in the hall, and then shut your eyes to the meat, booze and tobacco. Even if there are some good things happening in the hall, which no-one is denying, the bottom line is that they are allowing bajjar kurehits to take place in a gurdwara. One could even say that they are providing a platform for promoting these bajjar kurehits by offering these "services" in the hall at a discounted rate. It's interesting how they advertise everything else on the website which they know is positive, but they don't have the guts to advertise their party hall with booze and meat on the website. Just goes to show, they know what they are doing is WRONG, but they're to engrossed in what they're doing to admit it and change their behaviour. To this date, the committee are dismissive of the sangat's requests to stop booze, meat and tobacco in the hall. The committee are refusing to listen to the sangat on this. If you have any influence over the committee, you should ask them to explain why they're refusing to abide by Akal Takht's Sandesh. The website should promote Gurmat philosophy on it, so please provide a link on it to Akal Takht's Sandesh too, which encourages sangat money not to be used on halls which permit meat, tobacco and booze. "We should spread this message to others" too.

The analysis of the accounts shown by other users in this thread show that Ramgarhia Birmingham committee have absolutely no shortage of funds. They cannot even make the 'economic case' for it, which other committees try to do. I don't know of any official update, but the emails released by Satkaar showed that the committee are trying to drag this one out to the second week of January. They shouldn't be under any illusion that this issue will fall off the Sangat's minds/priority.

I think there was a BSSF announcement on this too, but a lawyer friend was telling me that a challenge can be made under the recently enacted Equality Act 2010. It will be expensive, but hopefully a gursikh will use this law to take on these caste promoting anti-gurmat committees!

Anyways, back to the topic. "SikhPaji" - CLEARLY linked to the Ramgarhia Birmingham committee, is making the argument that Gurdwaras should permit party halls with meat and alcohol, so that the saving that people make on hiring elsewhere can be used as Dasvandh!!! This is the most twisted logic ever. On the one hand you say that people should be discouraged from having party halls, yet you are permitting the institutions that should be doing parchaar of this to have their own halls? Parties with meat and alcohol OUTSIDE the gurdwara = WRONG Parties with meat and alcohol AT the gurdwara = WRONG 2 WRONGS do NOT make a RIGHT. It's high time the Ramgarhia Birmingham committee realise this.

I have a family friend who is a regular at the Gurdwara. She told me the Panth Time recording was cancelled last minute. What is not clear to her is whether the committee cancelled it, or the Sikh Channel cancelled it. She also told me that it appears the committee is walking round in high visibility jackets acting as "security" due to the potential "threat" from hot-head youths from which the local sangat needs to be protected. If this is the case and it is a confirmed policy of the committee, this seems like a real cynical ploy by the committee to keep their local sangat on side, when the real thing they should be doing is stoppping the manmat activities permitted in the hall.

What are the committee playing at? 7 weeks to come back on the question of whether they accept Akaal Takht's Sandesh? Also, the fact they're not willing to meet the sangat - seriously, I think they're taking the mick with the sangat and aren't taking the whole beadbi issue seriously.

Yes - although caste should not be brought into it, Grays is a majority "Jatt" committee, and Edinburgh is a majority "Bhatra" committee! How can RST then claim victimisation?!?!? Also, bottom line is that of the 15 or so Gurdwaras with party halls, 7/8 of them are Ramgarhia Gurdwaras. So, of course, they are proportionately going to get targeted more - BECAUSE they are the ones engaging more in Manmat. Stop the Manmat, and then you'll stop getting targeted by the Sangat. SIMPLE!!!