osingh

Hanji, Sant Samaj did not bestow panth rattan award it was the Jathedars of the various Takhts.

Chatanga veer jeeo, If daas is a weasel then bhai Amrik Singh ji Ajnala is also a weasel, I have repeated what was in the video. As per statement by bhai Amrik Singh ji, Harnam Singh is having gupt meeting with Radhaswami whilst panthic jathebandis are staging protests! Jathedars and leaders visit funeral of wife of Badal who was known to be corrupt. Sant Samaj have sided with Badal yet Badal has given to ticket to dusht Izhar Alam, honoured dusht Advani made Sumedh Saini DGP e.t.c. You honestly think that Sant Jarnail Singh ji would have just stood by and stayed silent whilst Badal honoured Advani at Darbar Sahib and made Sumedh Saini DGP? Nice language you are using veer ji. Please do not make this personal but daas just wants Chardi Kala for the Panth. Just because someone is mukhi of Samaparda or Jathedar does not mean we cannot criticise them if they do something wrong. Lets keep focused on the issue at hand, what is the need for insults? I hope I am wrong and that Jathedars and Harnam Singh Dhumma are using Badal for the chardi kala of the Panth. However after listening to speech of bhai Amrik Singh ji and other acts such as bestowing panth rattan award at Akal Takht it seems as if Sant Samaj and Jathedars genuinely support Badal. Daas believes that the truly Panthic Gursikhs will stay independent from Political parties and use the aasra of Gurbani and Naam for victory. Waheguru ji ka khalsa, Waheguru ji ki fateh

Agree 100% - "Bhai Amrik Singh ji speaks the truth. Badals wife dies and all these so called Panthic Jathedars and jathas run to his aid personally in a split second. Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj is thrown in wells, burnt, angs thrown away like garbage and these same so called Panthic Jathedars and jathas don't even pay attention." All I know is that bhai Amrik Singh ji has been at the forefront of protests such as the recent Radhaswami protest that took place yesterday. Where was Akal Takht Jathedar, Head Granthi...................................... They can attend the funeral of the wife of a corrupt politician like Badal but have not time to attend the Radhaswami protest? We need to support Panthic Gursikhs like bhai Amrik Singh ji.

I agree we should not use any offensive language such as swear words when addressing any Gursikh no matter what position they hold. However we have the right to express our opinions and if we see something wrong we should highlight it. The Akal Takht Jathedar is too close to Badal, this is clear for everyone to see. Then we complain when we cannot get justice. We will only get justice and chardi kala for the Sikh Panth when get a leader who is free from the clutches of political leaders such as Badal and Captain. How was the current Jathedar selected? Vedanti was fired and then Giani Gurbachan Singh was hired, this was wrong. It should not be the SGPC i.e. Akal Dal Badal who selects the Jathedar of the Sikh Panth. It is the Panth who selects the Akal Takht Jathedar. We need to have a Sarbat Khalsa in which a new Jathedar of AKal Takht is selected by the entire Sikh Panth.

This is in no way comparable to sir maan bhai sahib bhai Kanhaiya ji. Bhai sahib was naam abhiyaasi Gursikh who was given blessing by sri Guru Gobind Singh ji. Bhai Kanhaiya was a player of high spiritual state and saw Akal Purakh in everyone. These so called leaders cannot be compared to this great puratan Gursikh. Is it not clear that Sant Samaj and Akal Jathedar support this dusht Badal, they do not see him as an enemy. They perform akhand paaths for him, allow him to sit on chair infront of Sri Guru Granth Sahib and gave him panth rattan award. Is this all just for the cameras? Would bhai Kannaiya ji attend this funeral, give awards, allow him to sit on a seat, the answer is no. Same goes for any truly panthic leader. Sant Jarnail Singh ji would never allow for this because he lived according to his bachans. Where was the Jathedar Akal Takht, Harnam Singh, Head Granthi and other leaders during recent Radhaswami protest? Where were these leaders when the funerals of recent Shaheeds took place? Why did they attend this funeral? Because Badal is has power and money? Indeed this is ghor kaljug. Satguru Mehar Karan! Panth Nuu Sumat Bakshi!

Also Badal honoured dushts such as Advani, made Sumedh Saini DGP, gave ticket to Azhar Alam............................................................................................................... Yet many Sikhs are supporting Badal such as Sant Samaj and Jathedars of Takhts. Badal even got "pride of the panth award" from Akal Takht. What hope is their for the Sikh Panth? The disease of Akali Badal needs to be eradicated from the SGPC. It is the SGPC and Akal Takht that have the power but they are being controlled by their boss, Parkash Singh Badal. Sri Akal Takht and SGPC are religious institutions but have unfortunately been infiltrated with mayadhari-minded people. We need to rid the disease of politics from these institutions. We need to free these institutions immediately form the grip of corrupt politicians. Until then we will continue to suffer. Satguru Mehar Karan!

28 years since operation bluestar and all the Sikh Panth can build is Gurdwara within Darbar Sahib? If we question the memorial some people say it is anti-panthic however it is not the memorial that is being objected to rather the way the seva was given in un-democratic way and the design of the memorial. The Indian Government cannot tell the Akal Takht/Sikh Panth how we should build the memorial. The seva of building the memorial should have been a joint effort instead those close to SGPC/Badal get the seva. Various organisations such as AKJ, Simranjit Singh Mann (Akali Dal Amritsar), bhai Ram Singh (Taksal) have raised concerns regarding the memorial.

According to news article from ibnlive http://ibnlive.in.co...1127-3-241.html "Sharing the concern of Congress leaders at a special meeting at the Punjab Pradesh Congress office in Chandigarh, he said he was seized of the move to set up the memorial inside the Durbar Sahib Complex and had raised the issue with Chief Minister Parkash Singh Badal. Chidambaram said the Chief Minister had told him that he or his government had nothing to do with it as it was being done by the Shiromani Gurdwara Prabandhik Committee. He said Badal had also told him that it was not really a memorial but a Gurdwara which was being built and there would not be any photograph of anybody inside it." If the above is true then the memorial will not do justice to the shaheeds of 1984. The seva of the Sikh memorial should have been done in a democratic way with all jathebandis/sampardas/taksals taking part. Instead it seems as if Badal or the SGPC have picked who they want do to the seva instead of the Sikh Panth. A Gurdwara will not do justice to the Shaheeds, why do we need another Gurdwara inside the darbar sahib complex? The memorial should be similar to the museums dedicated to the victims of the holocaust in ww2. There should definitely be pictures and names of all the people who lost their lives during the massacre by the Indian Government. Rabb Rakhe.

Veer "Vahejeo" ji, a pdf of "jail chityaan" can be found on gurmatveechar.com in literature>punjabibooks. Also on same website in english books section there is a copy of "rangle sajjan" by Bhai Randhir Singh ji, another great book. A hard copy of "jail chityaan" in English can be purchased from DTF books in Birmingham. Rabb Rakhe.

Taken from tribuneindia:- http://www.tribunein...0712/punjab.htm Saini deserves to be DGP, state tells High Court Tribune News Service Chandigarh, July 11 Justifying the appointment of Sumedh Singh Saini as the Director-General of Police (DGP), the State of Punjab today questioned the motive behind an NGO's move to challenge it. The NGO, Voices for Freedom, has challenged Saini's appointment by filing a petition in public interest before the Punjab and Haryana High Court on the ground that he was facing a trial for abduction and other offences. In a reply to the petition, Principal Secretary, Home, DS Bains claimed that the NGO had a Facebook page where militants and radicals were sharing their views. The reply added the NGO had its head office in New York. Bains claimed that Saini was having an exceptionally outstanding record, rarely seen in service dossiers. The reply stated that the state in its wisdom, after perusing Saini's consistent outstanding record, took the conscious decision to appoint him as DGP. The Bench questioned the NGO on its means of fund generation. The case has now been adjourned for July 26. Going into the background of the matter, the petitioner contended: "On the basis of allegations that Saini is involved in the abduction and physical liquidation of three persons sometime in 1994, this Court referred the investigation against him to the CBI. "After detailed investigation, it filed a report confirming the abduction and physical liquidation of three persons and accordingly a charge-sheet was filed and sanction was accorded by the competent authorities". The petitioner contended one of the "questions of law of substantial public importance was whether a person, who is facing a trial before the CBI Court for abduction etc can be treated as having very good record for the purpose of being appointed to the post of Director General of Police?"

What's a "non-sikh"? What does the nationality of the person have to do with respect to Sikhism? In reality there are plenty of "non-sikh" weddings occurring every weekend at Gurdwaras. In the majority of weddings the bride and groom have no understanding of Sikhism, let alone Gurbani. After the wedding the beards of men are trimmed/shaved and there is a party with music, dancing, alcohol and meat. What should be done about these weddings?

"What people are saying is that the system of viyaakarn, as taught by Prof. Sahib Singh ji, is a manmade invention. The Gurus never created it. That is why none of the sampradas accept it." Bhai Sun Singh ji, This statement tells me that you have not studied Gurbani Viakaran in any detail. Saying that Prof. Sahib Singh "invented" the system is nonsense. The Viakaran taught by Prof. Sahib Singh is the same as other scholars such as Prof. Teja Singh, Giani Harbans Singh, Bhai Joginder Singh e.t.c. All the fundamentals taught by these scholars are the same. The lagu matra of words such as sihari, bihari give different meanings. There is no doubt on this. The sampardas did not reject Viakaran they were simply not aware of it. This vidya was lost and re-discovered in the early 1900s. If it was "man-made" then it would be impossible to have written the rules for it. All the patterns in bani regarding the lagu matra would just be coincidence? One can do a quick test, go onto srigranth.org and search for ਪਰਸਾਦੁ and ਪਰਸਾਦਿ. The first word has aunkar and inidicates a singular noun whereas the 2nd word has sihari. The sihari can gave different meanings but majority of the time for parsad it goves the meaning of "naal", kirpe de naal. The first fist means kirpa and the second word means kirpa de naal i.e. Gurparsad - Guru de kirpa naal. This is just one example. One can give literally thousands of example's. Fine if you do not want to accept Viakaran but to say it is man-made is not correct. Saying the above I still have huge respect for Sampardayak Giani's and listen to their katha's and literature. Good quote veer Bijla Singh ji - "Original Singh Sabha cannot be blamed entirely for Bhasaurs’ mistakes just like all udasi groups cannot be put in same category over mistakes of some immoral udasis." Rabb Rakhe

Veer ji, I guess we will not be able to agree on this subject. I firmly believe that we can not negate Gurbani Viakaran such as using the lagu matra when doing arths. However this does not mean I only read books or listen to those only from Viakaran background. I still listen to katha and books from Sampradaee Giani's. Faridkoti teeka is good even though they do not employ Viakaran like other scholars. We can learn from all Sikh scholars whether they be from SGPC, Taksal, AKJ, Sevapanthi..........................They are all worth of respect. What made me convinced about viakaran is when I actually took to the time to study it for myself. Also the viakaran system is so deep it made me appreciate Gurbani even more. No worldy person could write such bani with such an in-depth system of grammer. Gurbani is truly bania sirr bani! Waheguru ji ka khalsa Waheguru ji fateh!

Veer ji, It is good to read that you believe at least grammar is required. I will ask you again, why did our Guru Sahibaan implement the Grammer system which requires words to have a certain lagu matra when it only gives the outer meaning? Why did they implement it? Please answer this. Its clear from your posts that Gurbani Viakaran i.e. using the lagu matra is to get meanings such as the sihar, aunkar can only give outer meaning. Yet the Samprdayak Giani's (nirmale, sevapanthi etc) give the deeper arths but they did not use lagu matra to do the arths. However Bhai Randhir Singh ji, Prof Sahib Singh ji, Prof Teja Singh ji, Bhai Joginder Singh Talwara ji...........all stayed within Viakaran rules and used lagu matra to do arths. So they only understand the outer layer of Gurbani? Yet the sampradayak giani's who did not use lagu matra to do arths they did the deeper meanings (anthrev arths). When I mention Viakaran I am including the important tool of using the lagu matra (sihari, bihari etc) to do arths. As far as I am aware the Nirmale Scholars did not use lagu matra to do arths maybe because they were unaware. This vidya was only discovered recently. Rabb Rakhe

Veer ji, You are not really answering my questions. Please answer this: You say viakaran is the "outer layer" and the anthrev arths are the inner layer. So to to understand the "deeper" meanings of Gurbani we don't have to use viakaran? Then what was the point of our Guru Sahib using viakaran in the first place? Do you know how in-depth Gurbani Viakaran is? Prof. Sahib Singh ji and Bhai Joginder Singh ji Talwara's books are 100's of pages long and still they have not found the limit of viakaran and the rules of viakaran. Do you understand where I am coming from? Rabb Rakhe

Veer N30Singh ji, How can grammer just be the "basic framework"? What was the point of Guru Sahib implementing Viakaran, taking to the time to put the correct lagu matra at the end of words. How can we ignore this? You are wrong in saying that Viakaran confines Gurbani. It makes the meanings clear. If you read the arths done by Bhai Randhir Singh ji you can see the way they have done arths of Gurbani whilst always staying within Viakran rules. It does not make sense that Guru Sahib would have employed Viakaran if we could just ignore it after our avastha reaches a certain level. Why did not Bhai Randhir Singh ji ignore vaikaran when we can all agree they had reached very high stages of spirituality?

Intothelight ji, Bhai Gurdas ji themselves use Viakaran in their bani. Before questioning Viakaran please study it. At first I didn't know about the importance of viakaran and the role different vowels play such as bihari, sihari, aunkar e.t.c. when doing arths of Gurbani. Just studying Viakaran for few hours and you will understand the importance. "Or is vikarana actually manmade and not from our Guru Sahibs?" Please read books on vaikaran by Prof. Sahib Singh ji or Bhai joginder Singh ji Talwara for further understanding, nobody can deny that viakaran is used and employed by our Guru Sahibaan.

If samprada had seena baseena teachings from Guru Gobind Singh ji then why did they fail to use Gurbani Viakaran? How can we just neglect grammer, it's in Gurbani for all to see. Just study Gurbani Viakaran for 5 minutes and no-one can deny its significance. Our Guru Sahibaan created this grammer for Gurbani. If we can neglect Viakaran then what was the point of our Guru Sahibaan for creating in the first place? Why did they go to all the trouble of creating this in-depth system making sure each word has the correct lagu matra? How can it be insulting to limit Gurbani to grammer, it was our Guru Sahib who implemented this system! Is it not more insulting to ignore this wonderful system that guru Nanak Dev ji created for us? Also it is wrong to think that Viakaran somehow limits our understanding of Gurbani. This couldn't be further from the truth. The more we study Viakaran the more we appreciate the depth of Gurbani. By studying Gurbani we can derive the deeper meanings of Gurbani. We cannot just accept all of the teachings from samaparda's because they have a "lineage". Surely we must question all teachings from all samparda's and jathebandis to see if they agree with Gurbani. If some Udasi's are worshipping an idol of Baba Sri Chand ji then it is manmat and goes against Gurbani which advocates focusing on the dhuni of Naam. Quote: "It be pretty insulting to limit gurbani with grammar as you cannot measure anubhav parkash coming from gurbani by gurbani vikayaran. Such is the beauty of Gurbani.!" Bhai Randhir Singh ji employed grammer and wrote the rules of grammer in a book. So you are saying bhai sahib was not able to measure "anubhav parkash" from Gurbani. Veer ji have you read the meanings bhai Randhir Singh ji has done of Gurbani? Bhai Sahib reached the highest mystical states and he was firm believer in Viakaran. So you are saying that only sampradayak Giani's can fully intepret Gurbani and they do this by using knowledge of other granths (Ved) and mats (Advait) but Viakaran is not important. This is illogical and makes no sense. Surely to get the best understanding of Gurbani we would have to use the system of Viakaran that the Guru's themselves employed when writing Gurbani. Rabb Rakhe

The presence of the sihari makes the meaning spasht (clear). ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦ means kirpa (grace) and the sihari ‌ਿ at the end of the word gives the meaning ਕਿਰਪਾ ਨਾਲ i.e. with kirpa. However in the mool mantar or the shorter version above, ਗੁਰਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ is one word. The meaning of ਗੁਰਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ is ਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਨਾਲ i.e. Akal Purakh is met "with the kirpa of Guru". Our Guru Sahibaan designed a grammer system in order to intepret Gurbani and we should not ignore this when doing arths (meanings). For further understanding we can read books by masters in Gurbani Vyakaran (Grammer) such as Prof. Sahib Singh ji and Bhai Joginder Singh Talwara ji.

Even the Central Bureau of Investigation CBI warned Akal Dal (Punjab Government) in regards to the appointment of Sumedh Saini. Despite the warnings, Parkash Singh Badal still decided to appoint Sumedh Saini to the "Director General of Police." http://www.punjabnew...les-reply/46275 "The status of the case against Saini was informed to the Punjab government from time to time by the CBI and it is up to them to decide suitability or otherwise of an officer, who is facing trial". If the Akali Dal Badal is a "Panthic" party why did it appoint Sumedh Saini who is facing criminal charges and is alleged to have killed innocent Sikhs: http://www.panthic.org/articles/5417

The Jathedars and other Gursikhs such as bhai Ranjit Singh ji did good by visiting the family of shaheed Jaspal Singh ji and getting the Badal sarkar to file a case against the police officers. However time has passed and I believe the guilty are still walking free. It would be better if the Akal Takht Jathedar takes action on this. If they give orders i.e. protest rally for justice the Sikh Panth will listen and act. The Jathedars awarded Badal with "Panth Rattan" award and Sant Samaj supported Badal during elections. They should order Badal to immediately arrest the guilty individuals and if Badal disagrees then they should withdraw their support and take back the "Panth Rattan" award. The likelihood of this occurring is very slim.

Is anyone going from willenhall? Daas may require transport to attend rainsbai. Dhanvaad.

Jathedars and other Sikh leaders should also join this protest. The Sikh Panth should not rest until the guilty have been imprisoned for murder of an innocent Sikh youth. The Akal Takht Jathedar should be at the forefront of this protest. The criminals that murdered bhai Jaspal Singh ji are still walking free which is a disgrace. How long will it take us to realise that neither the Akali Dal Badal or Congress will not get justice for Sikhs. For maya the Sikhs continue to give votes to these same parties and ignore parties that are more panthic such as Simranjit Singh Mann. The Sikhs in Punjab will now pay the price for voting in a party that will never deliver justice for Sikhs. Satguru Mehar Karan!

The only way we will achieve our political goals is if we follow the bachans of Guru Sahib i.e. taking amrit, keep rehit, paath, naam simran.................... We need to have faith in Akal Purakh. These worldy government cannot bring Khalsa Raaj and justice that we require. India is becoming a superpower and there is no way that UK or other governments will sacrifice their business interests in favour of human rights and justice for Sikhs. We should still lobby, campaing, protest e.t.c. but have keep faith in the true superpower, Akal Purakh, and become Akal Purakh di Fauj i.e. chakk amrit. Waheguru ji ka khalsa, Waheguru ji ki fateh

Vaah! Great picture of bhai Ranjit Singh ji.