REDRUM

Lets agree to disagree They are all the same all have merged in waheguru. There is no diff they are 1... Gurus=avtars all are 1. seeing difference creates blocks in spirtual progress..... PJs you didn't answer the ques but subsided from it...

Have you had partak darshan of guru ji? If he gave you darshan would you not bow down to him and touch his feet.. This is sargun worship as well All I will say is whatever isht (desire) you have for e.g. say you think of guru nanak dev ji the most. Wahguru will come in that saroop.. For others who have isht in vishnu maharaj then waheguru will come in that saroop to give darshan. This goes more deeper but you can read stuff in books saying sargun worship isn't allowed but have you asked guru ji yourself what did guru ji say... Have you asked brahmgianis yourself what did they say?... Then tell me if sargun worship isn't allowed...

Technically we do, I was listening to sant Jagjit singh's audio's today and he was saying that bowing down to sri guru granth sahib ji, doing peta of teg in prashad is a form of sargun worship. Doing mata tekna is a form of sargun worship.

I'm just praising waheguru's sargun saroop.. Is that against the forums rules, if so I am sorry...

Mod Note: Stop spamming the thread, I've already deleted the same post of yours twice. Do not try to bypass moderators.

" If you live a virtuous life, the cycle of transmigration will be broken. There is no Heaven and there is no Hell" This is incorrect living a virtuous life is not enough to break the cycle of transmigration. Even by doing simran and bani isn't enough meaning if by the end of your life you have not obtained gian then your still stuck in the cycle. The only way is through self realisation once you get this then your mukht hence cycle of transmigration will be broken. Also to get self realisation you must break all attachments in life.... Also there are many hells and heavens for e.g. there is small and big hells also there are diff types of heavens such as there is janna paradise that muslims believe in as well...Also others but you get the point..

So can a brahmgiani.. . there is so much hate because ppl lack tolerance for other faiths.. 1 religion says there's is better and other argues there's is better this causes ego.. ego leads to arguments and arguments lead to hate.. Only way to neutralise hate is through simran or prayer.. Also let others follow there way etc. Learn to agree to disagree when in arguments. Simple

Dhanvaad ji

I advise ppl to only listen to kathas by brahmgianis like sant kartar singh, sant isher singh etc. I used to listen to other parcharics but got really confused as their knowledge is wrong sometimes. How can a person who hasn't got gian give katha to ppl without making lots of mistakes.. Anyway that is only if you understand panjabi but for those who can't understand start from somewhere. Something better than nothing...

Thanks for pointing that out. Tbh I am very dumb. Please do ardaas asking waheguru to help me to become more clever and for my chardi kala. Seriously pls Yes love is between waheguru only. Every other "love" in the world is moh(attachment). I learnt this from a sant and he was saying that once you start loving waheguru, you understand the true meaning of love. Before then you think you love something but you will find it was nothing but moh once you start to love waheguru. Then he goes even the relationship between child and mother is moh. I never said it was...

:6

There is no such thing as a "love" marriage. The word love has been over used and abused. Ppl saying 'I love you' 'you love me'. This is an utter mockery!! There is only one true love in the world that can only be between you (soul bride) and waheguru(husband). When people claim to be in love with someone that is a form of moh(attachment). Even when a mother says she "loves" her child that en fact isn't love but a strong form of moh.

Dhan Dhan Shivji Maharaj!!!

Bani is our theory and our practical is naam. NAAM IS EVEN BIGGER THAN WAHEGURU what I have noticed is bani creates the thirst to do more simran. Since I am a manmukh and my mind sometime gets tired of simran I revert back to bani or mool mantar to create the thirst to do simran. But make sure you do the 7 jaroori bani everyday that I have listed in my previous post. Also minimum simran is 2.5 hrs but that is minimum if you want to get mukhti, be free from the pain of birth and death and realise waheguru simran needs to be eventually 24/7. Essentially 2.5 hrs isn't enough. A brahmgiani said if you don't become jeevan mukht whilst alive you will definitly not get mukhti once your dead. And I used to think that guru ji will give me mukhti when I die if I followed rehit and did simran and bani.....

It depends on what jatha you are from as different ppl do different stuff. Normally I ready my 5 bani and sukhmani sahib (if you want) around 2am or 3am as amritvela is from 2am-10am. Then I spend the rest of my time doing simran and then at around sunset do rehras sahib. Then kirtan sohila and rakhea da shaabad before you sleep. I used to read other additional banis but I realised my simran was getting too reduced. As it's only through simran you can get gian make sure you spend most of your time doing simran. But do the banis above as they are compulsory. I used to be one of those singhs who just read bani again and again but I never realised I wasn't following it like it tells you do jap nam 24/7 and my nam simran was not much so had to be changed. This is my experience. *Make sure you do BIBEK as well as it's very important as it is needed to obtain gian*

God is sukh saroop, anand saroop, adwayat saroop, chetan saroop. God has no religion and favours no religion more than another. Lets say a kid makes a sand castle and then just randomly decides to destroy the castle he made. Why did he do it? In the same way it is up to waheguru to make a new or even end existing religions.... No one knows his order(hukam) But the best and purest religion is one that has it's followers remember and pray to god the most in....

5"5 isn't too short what I do is when I am feeling a little down(dukhi) is to think about people who are much worse than me or take a visit to the local hospital and see how people are suffering from all sort of diseases. I thank waheguru for my health and this makes me feel better and thank waheguru continously for giving me good health. Also when my mind becomes egotistical I think about other people who have got much more than I have and this helps to deflate my ego. Try it:)

In the past penji I have made a very big mistake that affected all my life... This mistake was made because I rushed into something that I thought was for the better and I didn't listen to my friends and family. Anyway what I'm trying to say is first discuss with your parents and friends and see what they want... I thought I was so right but I was wrong and let my emotions get the better of me and lost everything that I had worked for... Please I don't want you to end up making a mistake. Also do ardaas and take hukamnama from sri guru granth sahib ji. JUST TO LET YOU KNOW I WAS IN A SIMILAR SITUATION TO YOU.

This is a pointless debate that is going beyond the aim of this topic. But what I'm 100% certain on is that by marrying your life becomes harder and more dukhi as you have more responsibilities and less time to do simran. In conclusion if you want your life to be more simple, easier, less dukhi more time to do simran then don't get married....SIMPLE

Where in the sri guru granth sahib does it say it is the mothers duty to look after her children? Nobody is yours thats what I have learnt in life... By saying it is a womans responsibility to look after her children makes you forget waheguru and raises ego. Look at harnaksh and pralaad.. Harnaksh boasted that I look after you, feed you, cherish you but pralaad said no waheguru looks after me and he is my provider protector. And the rest I won't say but you know what happened. Also if a mother feeds her child meat, cuts her hair thats her manmat acts not the childs fault but the child can still grow up and get gian from waheguru and become a khalsa without her. If it is destined for the child to be khalsa then he would be regardless how he is brought up...

"For women especially this is the chance and honour of producing future Khalsas who can support the weight of the world with their Bhagti" This is WRONG. DO you think your mum can make a khalsa or do you think waheguru makes a khalsa. It is nobodies responsibility to make a khalsa apart from waheguru. There is no doubt khalsa can be made without marriage or without a mother.... I'm not sure what your def of khalsa is but if you mean just taking amrit that is not khalsa... Khalsa is one that is without veekar, is pure, conquered 5 evils etc. That can only done by waheguru alone and no mother can do this unless she is a brahmgiani.... "continuation of Sikhi is just a delusion and mirage to confuse us further" Don't think that a women will continue sikhi it is all in waheguru's hands. Thinking this way causes you to forget that waheguru is doing everything and not a person. Sorry if my response is too blunt but it had to be said...

Also bhai kaneiya he saw guru gobind singh ji everywhere even when giving water to the muslim soliders he saw guru gobind singh ji. His avasta was also based on sargun saroop as guru ji was the sargun form of waheguru. "Real Understanding/Darshan/View of SggSji is only with Saints,Mahapursh,Brhamgyanis; not with the people like me who just listen to Parchaars,EducationatiONAL books,Gurmat Parchaar and then debate over Sargun and Nirgun." This is so true..... What I try to say is what I've listened from vichaars from sants as well lol But thing is I know a person who has got atam gian but they will never tell anyone or give parchaar as they say that it is not their duty even though they could...... But your right I should be doing simran and obtaining gian from waheguru first before I talk about sargun and nirgun.. My bad

Only 5 this is what I meant that both forms are same Nirankaar Aakaar Api Nirgun Sargun Ek, Ekahi Ek Bakhanno, Nanak Ek Anek Anyway I know your trying to express your views but do you know what sargun worship of akal purakh is? (I bet you do it all the time) If you haven't then why debate on something you don't know much about. I know a saint and many bhagats that did worship of sargun saroop and their names are well known to the panth to this day! Also when the gurus and avtars came to the world everyone bowed to them and that is sargun worship as well. Doing chaur sahib, doing mata tekna to sri guru granth sahib to sri guru granth sahib is sargun worship. Don't get put of between sargun and nirgun worship both are same. One who gets gian on sargun saroop will get gian eventually on nirgun saroop. Also if one gets gian on nirgun saroop then 1 will get gian on sargun saroop eventually as well. <edited : personal attacks and attacks on jathebandis won't be tolerated here> I am very fortunate to meet a person that whatever he says comes true, when I am with them my 5 evils get destroyed and with his help has attached me to sri guru granth sahib. Please read the 13th astpadhi of sukhmani sahib. Also a brahmgiani can give naam. As they have authority to do so.... As their avasta is: har harjan dohi ik he bib bechar kish nahe Jal te upaj tarang jeho jal he bike samai Like the water merges in to the ocean how can you tell them apart. Tui mui mui tui antar kesa I am you and you are me what difference is there waheguru mera me waheguru da I am yours, your mine Mohinder pal "Shorter the Gurmantar, More Quickly Seeker gets Success(Sidh of the Mantar. " I agree with you completely.

Like I said before it doesn't really matter what mantar you use as long as it is remembering waheguru. Main thing is japping it with prem, vishvash, sharda and in chardi kala. Waheguru has many names otherwise why would guru gobind singh ji write jaap sahib where he describes god in so many ways as he could of wrote waheguru many times but he didn't. Also only 5 there is no difference in sargun saroop and nirgun saroop both ways can give mukhti hence realisation of waheguru. Also each jug (due to avtars and gurus) has it's own mantar maybe in the next jug there will be another mantar. Each jug comes out with a new mantar then in the next jug you could say a better mantar than waheguru will come out if you believe that 1 mantar is better than another?!

Whichever naam you are given by your panj piyareh or sant. Makesure you jaap that naam with faith, love, trust, contentment and with full concentration. Without concentration japping naam will be pointless... "The above verse states that only SatNaam is Akal Purakh Sahib's PRIMAL and ORIGINAL NAAM - the same one the Panj Piyaray give to the Sikhs in the presence of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji." Satnaam can be waheguru, raam etc as the def of satnam is that waheguru's name is true but so is ram, har, gobind etc . You say 'original' the naam waheguru only was given to the world in kaljug by sri guru nanak dev ji before then all other names for waheguru were used. Won't they original? But I get your point that as sikhs we will jaap waheguru as instructed by the panj...