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Ranz the way i have always understood it is, Roop is the appearance of Guru Ji. You carry his appearance, and Suroop is the physical appearance, eg Maharaj and Palki sahib there? Even if only small such as the ones they use when they take him to hotels for weddings <_< i dont know if this is rite, its jst the understanding i have picked up from my Pajis in london sides when talking to them alot!!!! Please forgive for the mistakes i have made!!

SIMRAN!!!!

Gurdwara gona love me! lol, i spent a fortune in their shop these past few weeks! :TH: lol!! Hope they got some in stock..

WJKK WJKF Paji its great you have chosen to offer your head! There is nothing like it! (take it from me, i only gave mine this weekend..) Try to get your kakkar before you go, reason is you can get used to wearing them. You will be suprised, when i first started wearing kirpan, i kept moving it every 2min till i was happy with a position, then same with a khanga (my kesh is not that long as i only kept it 18months ago if that) therefore my khanga sometimes moves and can get irritating. The point is, you get a chance to feel it and then when you take amrit, its no different except you will hav Guru Ji with you inside! <_< Also, as others have said, do simran all day, just do it all the time as much as you can, jst keep whacking it out!!! I did 5 Chaupi Sahibs before i went so Guru Ji was with me all the time! And i could feel it! Then did simran all the time i was on my way to Amrit Sanchar and while Amrit Was being given, in my head all i could do was look at Maharaj and think how beautiful he was and say, Waheguru!! What to wear, if you can get a Bana, then wear it! if not go for a kurtha pajama! A bana is better but if you cant get one then Kurtha is next best thing! Coz they can cover your legs (you dont wear ya trouses so can get cold and also, it dont look dat good, taking in amrit in tshirt and kachera! i should know! it happened to me!!!) Thats it really, jst practice the Rehat Maryada now, before you give your head and keep doing as much simran as you can! Just one other thing, when you are given amrit, you will want more! Just hope you have a dhari!! lol, coz the sweetness is nextlevel!! Amrit gets in ya dhari so you can still taste it after! lol N the only way you will continue to taste that amrit when you have taken it is by continuing to do naam as much as you can after!! These were the tips i was given, also added a couple in myself, but the most important thing to do is jst keep doing naam simran!! and try to follow rehat! Good Luck Singh! Let us know how you got on!!! Welcome to the Panth as soon you have joined! (i wont beable to say then so say it in advance for you! :wub: ) Think i have rattled on to long so im gona go now! WJKK WJKF

Whats age? Nothing but a number!!! lol kool yeh i take care of em with so much respect. Just gona have to get in some more shastar now to make up the missing 3.. Again, does 2 kirpans count as one pees? or one kirpan, and one shastar? (sowwie, you guys gona have to help a lil bit, i only a baby now!! )

does it count up if you have more then one shastar kara?? Ie, your normal kara, then your shastar ones too, do these come under regular kara or would they be classed as shastar? Coz wear 2 normal kara all the time then shastar kara too.

Been doing my nitnem paj, not sure about seva tho... Maybe i should start??

its coz they full of crap aint it! lol

Gurfateh Phenj today you have seriously one, touched my heart with your post, i didnt want people to know. not jst yet anyway. I have only brocken it to my parents, infact i told you 1st!?!!?! lol Its Maharaj who wanted a head, its not my head, its his so if i was to refuse, then i dont deserve to walk the path. With Gurus Kirpa i was able to stand tall and give the head back to my father, Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji!! Please tho, do not congratulate me, i DIDNT DO ANYTHING! Just followed Maharajs Hukham.. But i do thank you all for your gestures. But there really is no need! May Vaheguru Bless you all to! WJKK WJKF

WJKK WJKF!!! AS sad as this is going to sound there are only certain Kirtanis i can listen to and really appreciate!! This website is what i have been looking for!! We used to have so many of the tapes for this site but when my nani dies we listened to the so much they stoped working. THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!! I REALLY THANK YOU FROM WITHIN!! paji seriously if there is anything you need, let me know yeh! you will not understand what you have given me!

Just go loco when ya do ya simran lil bro!!! simple as! Forget anyone is around you, its hard but jst forget the ego each one of us carries and jst cry out for Vaheguru!!!! Hope helps?

we kool yeh!! no more arguments?? no grudges?? trying clean my slate now, time running out and would like to do it before the end.. Can ya upload ya pic please, been tryin grab it off but cnt get it rotating!!!

Tis Paji I was only jokin by the way!

So you got something against men now?? What happened to equality and all that?? lol i dont accept the apology as i dont see a need for it as such (but if it makes you happy i will.) Next time, as i said in the post to the other person, jst be careful on how you write stuff.

awwww thanks!!!!!!!!! NOOOOOT!!!!!!!!! 90917[/snapback] lol why argue? the site is good, any site is good if its purpose is met. if you comment on someones work it can make a difference but to comment on someones seva is not nice. The developer would have worked hard at getting the site up. If its a free host whats the problem? I use a free host for my website. doesnt make any difference to anyone. End of day its being used is it not? Please think about whats said in your post, im not having a go or anything like that, jst words are intepretated in different ways by different people, the way we say things impact in different ways therefore we should try to limit any offences we can cause. All-Info PS keep up the good work bro

WE need a bank account set up, and each person, donates money into this account on a regular basis therefore when money is needed for things like this, we have the funding to purchase the items and then pass to a safe location where we know it will be respected. This has really made my day suck!!!! Was going alrite too! But now im proper <Edited> off and upset! If we are meant to give 10% of earning to charitable causes is this not also charitable cause? saving Sikhi? Does anyone else think we can set this up? Our local youths always say we need money for stuf but none of us have ever done it, we jst cough up on the day.. Please sangat ji, lets not let this one slip!

Nahh i disagree. Not everyone is born a Sikh. You can be born into a Sikh family. But to be a Sikh you have to follow the maryadha as set out by our Gurus. There are so many people out there with cut hair who smoke or drink or even do neither but dont follow Sikhi and have no interest in it who go around calling themselves Sikhi when really, they have no religion. They are just Indian, Anglo-Indian, Anglo-Asian, Punjabi or whatever but i dont think you can call them Sikhs. Sorry all info, i jus used a bit of ure post and picked up on it but i realise i mite've misinterpreted it so i am sorry and hope you can forgive my mistakes... everyone. VJKK VJKF 90849[/snapback] Fateh Paji dont worry, no need for a n apology. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. By my post i meant, if you do not cut the hair anything, whos appearance to you carry? Either way you are still a learner in terms of Guru Nanak Dev Ji. You become wahegurus student, if they smoke and drink and do wrong, they are bad students where as if they dont then they are more disciplined. Apologies i did not make it clear, it sounds much more clearer when explained in person coz you can get immediate questions in!!!!!

that part... who's she?? Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fatheh! 90846[/snapback] LOL "She" being the muslim girl!!!! lol

A muslim who is in a club trying to get a date with a non-muslim or any person is not following what is written in the Qur'an or the example of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him in ANY way at all. You'd think from the remarks on this thread that all muslims are evil converters. It seems to come up on these boards time and time again. May I remind you all that any muslim who does this is actually going AGAINST Islamic teachings and is therefore in no position to be trying to convert someone else. Yes it is very sad to hear all these stories and it brings me no joy as a muslim to read that a girl or guy has been converted in such disgusting circumstances. In my view it nullifies the conversion if someone is falsely led into converting to Islam - it means absolutely nothing. You are a muslim if you follow the teachings in the Qur'an and example of the Prophet (pbuh) noone who 'converts' out of love is a muslim, noone who does not believe in those things is a muslim whether they said the necessary sentance to convert or not. I believe it is necessary for both the Sikh and Muslim communities to work together on this issue as it is soemthing that affects us both. We should be uniting to solve this issue. 90833[/snapback] 2 things, 1. phenji (s_kaur_d) which bit do you want me to explain? 2. (To the above qoute), i read the quran and i cud have sworn it clearly states that the world is divided in to 2 parts, believers and kafirs (non-believers) and it is the duty of a muslim to form holy war (i cant remember the word now, any one help??) against the world until the world is muslim. Is this not meaning converting others to islam? When it is written to convert someone is a passage way to heaven? Islam is about peace, yes i admit that, and there are some beautiful lines in the Quran, but i know there are sections in there which have stated and also i have muslim friends, they too have even stated this to me on multiple occasions. Even my BNP contacts say the same. I do agree tho, unless the person reads the passage of conversion (again please forgive my ignorance in not being able to name it) with piyaar and believe, the conversion is false but point being is, many of the time they person (male or female) are not aware of the full facts of the religion. I will put up some literature on the website soon, its the information we hadwhen we had the al-mahajaroun incident in july 04. Not all muslims are bad, then again not all sikhs are good. there are always idiots in a community, we jst have to deal with it and move on to more pressive measures of preventing this from continuing. Prevention is Better then Cure! Apologies for the mistakes and the offences caused. WJKK WJKF All-Info

Ima print that and hand em out at the Gurduwara... make sure all the brown gurls i know dating muslims moms get them lol or their bibi's so they can go home and be like "kuriye thu raata nu bara-do vaje thuk kithe renee?" haha but ya is there anything in punjabi on that? tru <_< so verrry true...Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fatheh 90788[/snapback] One of the most sensible things iv heard all day, stop datin! lol especially muslims! Phenji alot of sikh guys are dating muslim girls coz they think its ok as they doin it to our girls not realising it jst makes the circle worse!!!! The muslims have been doing it for years on end! Many many years, the sikh guys are jst retaliating. Stupidly! She might be a muslim but she still a phenji at the end of the day therefore deserves the same respect as a sikh phenji.

Sory meant to add DONT GIVE UP, JUST USE YOUR HEAD ABOUT WHAT ACTION YOU TAKE!!! If you need any advise if you know the problem is happening, either text or email the contact details on the sites. Both All-Info and Underground Sikhs is active (all-info is and im sure underground sikhs still operational, if not i can contact them on your behalf.)

"It's easy to take SIKH GIRLS out on a date as they generally like a good drink and from there gradually they can be bought in to Islam" Qoute from the website, which came from the papers. This isnt just what muslims say, but all the community, Goray, Kalay! Think about it. Seriously. I have been there, i have seen all this happen hence i still working on letting people know what goes on but at the same time, i feel at times whats the point? I get told, "your just another finatic and dont want to enjoy life" (thats coz i no longer drink). Whats the response you can give to this? Simple. If you are off your face, and dont remember anything, how can this be good? How can you enjoy life IF YOU DONT KNOW WHAT HAPPENED IN LIFE!?! Anyway, this is a serious problem but i am going to revert the situation. Is it girls with the problem here? Think about it, these guys they are dating instead obviously have something we dont? OR they dont like us for some reason. Shudnt we seek this and root out the problem? Its all good educating some one but end of the day its like at school, you go there, goes in, when the bell rings and you leave, it leaves your head too!! It isnt always a problem with the girls, its a problem with us guys too!!! The converting this is a BIG issue but if you look around now, to the wider perspective, its now kooler to be with a muslim (who doesnt need to pose as a sikh with a kara in a club and say he doesnt drink coz he wearin it when really he dnt drink coz his religion says to him not too. Thats a point, we always knock them down, but seriously, they actually obey what muhamed said!?! and follow the orders in the Quran. We cant even follow the teachings of our Guru who is HERE WITH US everyday!), kalay and goray. These are who you will find the girls with. Theres an easy way to sort it out, yeh you can beat up the guy, you can tell the girl not to, or jst tell her parents. I know that sounds bad, jst take a photo, post it to her parents and say, look at what your daughter is doing. sort it out or we will sort you guys out also!!! When we hand out anti-conversion leaflets, you will be surprised at the results. we have had girls coming up to us for the leaflets but their MUMS!!! Take it off them and throw it away! Wedding season is coming up, we need people in each city to take a Gurdwara and hand out these leaflets again, and also other Sikh Literature. I can vouch this works. My family is not "Religious" but i follow my Sikhi to the best i can. I play Simran everyday, i blast my Nitnem of a cd so the rest of the house can hear it also, i leave paperwork of some of the projects i do lying around the house, i always leave some kind of book open so they can see it and have a nose. Gues what, it works. My sister, the last person i would have thought to do this, has startd listening to kirtan by herself. Jst leave things in open perspective, make the person curious as to what you are about and they will come in with Gurus Grace. I apologise for such a long post, havent slept! thats my excuse! And any offences made to anyone in this post. If you want to read more stories about conversions, if you are not already aware please check out these websites.. www.all-info.us www.whyichosesikhism.com All the stories are true on these sites. All-Info has an anti conversion leaflet on it, well a Raise Awarness document. Please take time to read it!! Also if you can, print it, photocopy it and hand it out at the Gurdwara in your local cities. WJKK WJKF All-Info PS Sorry again! TOO MUCH AKJ SIMRAN FROM LAST NITE AT PARK AVENUE RHENSBAI! :TH:

Please define for my paji what is a non sikh in your eyes? To me everyone is a sikh. Remember one thing, one important thing! Everyone is born a sikh. If you do not cut your hair or trim your beard, who do take the Roop of?? On each and everyday you learn something new. That is what Sikh translates to is it not? A Learner? Therefore please define what you call a non sikh. If a non sikh is someone who is not yet had the blessing of giving their head then i too should now only take of the panj kakkar i carry, and stop practising my nitnem as i wudnt have the right. I myself and working to giving my head and i feel the time is very close but who knows. Point being tho is yes i practise my rehat to the best of my ability but i know Gursikhs who have have given their head and yet do not act like they have done.. To say for non sikhs to wear a kara is incorrect depending on whether you mean they are born into the sikh religion or not. I myself as i have said many a time, used to cut my hair and used to wear a kara but i didnt abuse it. i stupidly took it off when i went to have a drink as i knew it was wrong but only realised the error of my ways recently. Point being, it doesnt matter if you are sikh or not, ANYONE can get a kara banned. It isnt hard. You get into a fight, you take of the kara and use it to defend yourself except you smack the guy on the head with it, or in the face. You go to court, you get sent down and kara gets banned. Thats one scenario. Another is, you get in to a fight, you take of the kara, you lose it, the opponent hits you with YOUR shastar, you both go court, Kara banned and you are mocked and abused for losing our article of faith. Makes no difference. I clearly agree that if you are from a different religion ie Hinduism you shouldnt wear a kara just as muslims shudnt too. It is Kakar at end of day but it needs to be clearly defined who you mean. i have 3 great hindu mates and they used to wear a kara BUT they never abused it coz i asked them not too, and over time they realised the importance of the kara and then took it off themselves but it was an amrit dhari singh who gave them.

QUOTE how do you fite multiple people? your talking bollywood here lol. well on serious note, well if the guy is weak, a kara would be needed. but would he proud of carrying it around in his pocket all day long, and when the time came hed be afraid to use the kara? has he asked teachers for help pehla? Not bllywood at all bro. Taking out more then one opponent is not difficult at all, theres a skill to it, its all about positioning and timing and using the numbers to your advantage. ANY martial arts school will teach you this! BUT!!!! They say stay face on, alot of people do not like the person who opposes the theory BUT he speaks sense coz when you think about it, its true. Move to the side of them when they rushing you, take then end guy out, either left or right, up to you, now use him as a shield so u walk the the horizontal line created by the enemy.. Thats besides the point.. ANYWAY! DO NOT USE A KARA! IF YOU DO NOT KNOW HOW TO USE IT YOU DO BEADMI OF SHASTAR! take a bat with you, see how easy it is to lose control of it. A kara is great but if you dont know what your doing, it becomes a nukle duster and that means the person on the opposite end of it can use it to! Learn how to use shastar before you use it as it wont help you, it will only assist the opposition. You need to learn how to defend yourself bro, your friend i should say! Its a Sikhs responsibility to learn to fight, started of with Guru Hargobind Ji when he picked up arms. I can tell you here to only fight if its riteous but im not going to. Im gona say the best defense and weapon you have is your legs. Get out of there. Who cares what people say about you? So what? End of the day, WHO is going home that day, eating with their family and spending time with Guru Ji? Fight by all means but learn to fight first. Its easier said then done. Much easier said than done! I dont know alot, but i have had alot of fights at school so experience tells me, walk away. When the person bullying you is by himself, you take him out. Simple as, you give him such a thapar he will NEVER look at you again. When you have a crowd you have people backing you up, but when you alone, no1 theres is going to help you. Go to your local gym, do some light work outs, do some weights, running is a must, condition yourselves then learn to fight, not specific martial arts, do a mix, boxing teach you to punch, grappling is a must, teaches you how to save your self from geting such a kick in! Just a few tips. Sorry to go on.. Just avoid the fight until its major requirment, ie. you have been cornered and all you wona do is get out of there. Do a Chaupi Sahib and bust one on them, use everything to your advantage, teeth, bite him, fingers, stick em in his eyes! AND MOST OF ALL! DO NOT be afraid to give Thakur a good kick aswel! :TH: WJKK WJKF

Amrit Sanchar is in West Brom next week on saturday. AKJ.org i think has the details on it!!