zoltansingh

At least you know what side the bread is buttered with jazzy b. You got amritdharris. Who happily do remixes for naraqthari worshipping miss pooja.

He can be contacted via his sons email ID (I will have a look for it as I did have it). Bit pointless though as I doubt he takes much notice of it. I phoned him about Delhi Prabandakhs allowing people to smoke on Guru Ghar property and serve meat there. Proof was emailed to him as requested. To date he has never taken any action.

Don't tell Dhumma that. He thinks he is well in with the Badals. Ahhh bless, barfi for Badal.

The petition against Nath has been dismissed. The petition against the Congress party will be heard and the judge decide on its merits etc.

No need to import. There are plenty of quality Polish and Egyptian line Arabi horses in USA.

The ban is still in place. There is talk of lifting it but the ban is certainly still in place. Also the marwari horse it mentions as being in France is apparently now in England. Interesting prints of Maharaja Ranjit Singh. Notice the facial profile and ears of the horses. No marwari ears as found in most horses in Punjab these days.

The British gifted 5 horses to Maharaja Ranjit Singh Ji: (unsure on source as had this saved on HDD). I have read about the British gifting Suffolk Cart Horses (Suffolk Punch) to Shere-e-Panjab. The British made great use of the Suffolk Punch in India, especially to produce good sturdy mules for the army. The Pak army still has the Suffolk Punch breed at their Equine Farm at Mona. The Indian army also had some but I am unsure about the current situation.

They are only frowned upon by those into natural horsemanship. Take the bit away and the bridle that replaces it will also exert pressure somewhere to get the control. I am not too sure if it is unusual. I have seen the fauj of the Bidhi Chand Dal and they are well looked after. Maybe others who have seen the fauj of other Dals can comment about them. I know that the Bageecha Baag faction of the Budha Dal does not have the same emphasis on the welfare of horses as they did under previous Jathedar. I am not sure about the Nihangs with Baba Surjit Singh Ji at Raqba as I have never visited.

Caroline from the UK chapter of the Friends of Marwari was at Muktsar this year giving advice on bits and exchanginging thorn bits for more acceptable bits. They have undertaken several such campaigns in the past few years.

Thorn bits can be painful for horses and there are campaigns to get people to switch away from using them.

I know of people who have bought horses that were once with nihangs. Not sure what the ins and outs are but I guess some nihangs have horses they own so can sell them. Every year many horses are gifted for Guru Ji at Sri Hazur Sahib, far too many to be looked after so some are sold on.

Veer-ji, i guess they did not care for it and sold him. I think we should not dwell to much on this but look at the positives from this. He is in much better condition and being cared for. I posted a video on this thread where baba maghar singh radiates. About this bloodline and also mentions that not many horses from this bloodline are about because they were not looked after. So kudos to those who have taken on this great stallion with his interests and welfare at heart.

No these horses are not with the Budha Dal. The stallion was with them previously and they kept him in very poor condition (the type of condition you see animals in RSPCA adverts), he was with the Balbir faction of the Budha Dal previously. His condition is now much better. There is a photo of the same stallion when he was with the nangs: http://www.sikhsanga...post__p__496820 (bottom photo).

Some snippets from history: Moolraj and his Arabi horse mentioned: Info on bits used by the Sikhs:

Budha Dal Puratan bloodline from Neela Firanghi: One of the tallest stallions in Punjab today: Sister of the above stallion:

Bidhi Chand Fauj: New gaddi horse of Bidhi Chand Dal:

I doubt the pathans could have conned an equine expert like Maharaja Ranjit Singh. He had an eye for a good horse. Conning him with a horse would be like me trying to pass off say Frank Bruno as Cassius Clay with Angelo Dundee.

Chatanga, please can you scan that hukumnama and post here as well as the other quote you mentioned. Thanks.

I guess you could print it to a PDF file. Yes lots of good info on this topic. Lets keep it rolling and get as many references as we can.

Bro, I will post some pictures on Monday. I doubt the Topre exists now. Would be interesting to collate all the historical accounts of thePunjabi horses into some form of publication. One guy I saw had a stallion he claimed was 66" to others he said 70". From what I saw he was more around the 62" mark.

True white horses are rare, that's a dapple grey mare or neela as we say. Thanks for posting the pics. I was at Sur Singh in December and have some photos of the new main stallion. Never trust owners when it comes to height and prices.Some measure to tops of head etc instead of withers. 68inch horses are rare, also they all tell you these super prices. Top price currently was 22lakh for Naag in Punjab. The white horses someone wants to know about are Nukra. The biggest stallion currently in Punjab is probably Budha Dal puratan bloodline Karamati who is 65"+ to withers. I have some photos that I will post.

Singh 559, >>So ZoltanSingh the Sikh horses were probably around 15-16 hh and bred for endurance rather than speed (like the thoroughbred)? Yes endurance was needed, the Topre breed is said to have been able to gallop for stretches up to 100km+ at a time. Endurance and speed in battle can be combined in a breed. The Akal Teke is known for its endurance, speed and agility. Perfect for battle especially if we think of the old sardars and their battle strategies. One such strategy was the planned withdrawl from a battlefield at pace, this would suck the enemy in to a planned horseshoe type formation with the Sikhs then attacking from either side and the front. I look forward to the photos you took in Punjab.

Ambarsari, Sindhi, Shian, Anmol, Dhanni, Mutwale, Pabni, Mornian, Topre, Shahpari all names of local breeds that exist/(ed) in Punjab. Today most the good horses in east Punjab have heavy Marwari influence whilst those in Pak Punjab are devoid of this Marwari influence and still have non marwari ears.

It might be worthwhile keping everything on the other topic we had a while back as there were period references etc posted on that thread. Horses would have been persian arab, turkoman breeds like Akhal Teke, no doubt the stallions would have been used to cover local horses to breed horses with improved stamina etc. If we go by period art then the horses used by the Sikhs did not have the curly ears of the marwari, but were kulley kan (open ears).

Many of those settled in and around Jalandhar as there were muslim jagirdars in this area. I doubt many went to Rothak as it has always been a jaat area. The areas of what is northern Haryana especially the old district of Hissar had lots of kareedar Sikhs from Daoba who were economic migrants (there to increase their landholdings). Not many pak evacuees around this area. There are Bilaspuria etc who were settled in northern Haryana after a dam was built in what is now Himachal. The land in Hissar area at the time was usless and held as jagirs by sardars (granted to them by the Patiala Raja). There are still plenty of Sikh families with land holdings of 100+ keyth in this area.