SSM

but its better to tell them nicely rather than shout and scream abt it or just walk away,. that dont get thru , better to stay friends and debate it out,

yeah ok we r expresing ourselves and thats important as the first step but we at SS need to find a way to get out there and do sewa, dunno how but i want to, we all sit here and maybe everyone can help out for a few hrs at some refuge or something... . See I really dont know but maybe someone knows some way members of SS can help??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

I used to go to islamic events at uni and with my mates and one of them often came with me to sikh events. We used to question eachothers religion and it was really good to educate ourselves. A lot of ppl see u there and try to convert u but its really good to debate with them. I've met some really nice muslims and we'll be mates til i die and i understand that they are only trying to help me trying to convert me but u just have to explain sikhi to them and they wont be able to reply, then they will go do some research and come back and try again, and then they find themselves very stuck cos they know u cant get better than sikhi so need to convert. I dont get offended , I just find it hilarious :wub: Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

soz, like i said b4 i dont have time to write short posts, il try not to write so much next time but it takes 5mins to write that one adn 10mins to writeconcise post and i aint got that much time, but il type much less from now on. Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

I dont know if u can blame love marriages for the divorce rate. If a person wants to stick thru that marriage they will regardless of whether it was forced or not. Some ppl will be ready to divorce for the simple reason that they are not 'compatible' but that can happen in both types of marriage and it does. It is down to the individual. Ofcourse ppl did not divorce much then but is happiness not also important so its not much good if they were very unhappy, in which case is a love marriage not a better option? izzat is not something only the woman of the house holds. in God's house ur just as bad for sleeping around whether u r a man or a woman. So if it is equally bad then we should accept that. In my view men going off and having affairs also ruins the family izzat. Problem is some ppl wont accept that which is why everyone forces women to marry freshies but not so much if the son does something wrong. What happened to equality in Sikhism?? Your friend- with that type of crowd that is what u get, a few drunk guys and a drunk girl, usually the outcome. My frineds who have been were not taken to india, now they have a chance to sort themselves out in their own time, if izzat had come first their lives may've been destroyed in an unhappy marriage. You cant blame her for hanging out with them, she may not know any other way to forget her pains than go to a club or take drugs. In fact, yesterday i went to a friend's party and everyone but me was drunk, it was the typical crowd, but u enjoy it at that time, u really dont have a worry in the world when ur on the dance floor or ur talking to drunk ppl, ur in some next world, it does not feel good like it does when u go to the Gurdwara but for someone in pain it is the ideal place to forget everything. Especially if they dont know how it feels like to go to the Gurdwara. I know that if I did anything dodgy by parents would never take me to india, because b4 this false izzat comes happiness and the way to go abt things is to help ur daughter, not to throw her to the next boy in the pind. I think all parents need to forget this idea of ''what will ppl say'' and just do what is best for their children in the long run and not what is good for their izzat in the short. I dont know if anyone will agree on that, but there is general izzat and there is 'what will the community say', we tend to get the 2 mixed up and the day we stop we may not have forced marriages. Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh Sikh Supreme yep they all after majesty's crown lol At one point in my life i was ready to marry a freshy, but really talk to them and no way! they expect a lot from their wife, but so do a lot of men in the west.but for freshies an affair is more ok, and i dont understand how parents can force daughters to marry men that not interested inthem but their passports. Freshies want a 'good' wife but thinkits ok to be going around with other women themselves. Which is why I dont think any parent should force their daughter to marry a freshy so much inequality-this creates that izzat issue which means parents run to india if they suspect their daughter. true that izzat has kept our community the way it is, but u cant deny that with the advantages came disadvantages. if men saw women as equals and older women saw all women as equals we may not have the prob of forced marriages for girls. Their view would be respected. ofcourse u want a decent wife but y keep away from the other girls? u can still be mates? maybe even help sort them out slowly i dont think a mother can claim she loves her daughter and yet take her to india and make her marrry a man she may never love. Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

Tarunjeet Singh veerji that is totally amazing, what can I say, erm well done ... well done! Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

oh my parents werent worried abt the match. Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

amrit is amazing Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

The thing is Prem that I dont know what Anjaan has to say abt this and I dont think she is going to read all this :wub: but men can really help here. I was thinking, lets say a woman is being abused, she can have me (female) help her get out but she might refuse because she may worry about the world has to offer her once she leaves. Now if she is reluctant to leave but has someone like Prem tell her how life can be better once she is out then maybbe she is more likely to take that step? I dont know, I was just thinking that if u got a bloke tel u that what ur bloke is doing is wrong then maybe she will think , yeah its wrong and im not taking it. Anyways, dont know to be honest. Sikh Supreme, no offence to freshies but these guys are usually not 'innocent' lol, dont think they care what the woman has done b4 marriage as long as they can marry her. I think that u cant blame parents for running to india once their daughter is upto stuff but they shouldnt force her to get married but should maybe keep her there for a while, means she keeps away from all that. Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

WELL, you know what the problem is, domestic violence is happening big time and if every woman left her home and moved into a refuge you can see what spiral that will create. I'm not saying they shouldn't leave their homes, I'm saying how do we stop domestic vioelence so that women do not have to move to a refuge It's not easy, men beat women to show power, to release anger or whatever. women, well i wander if they would hit their husbands if they could, but one thing they can do is shout or complain all the time to the guy abt little things and really torture him like that, i mean look at the pic of the lions in the picture section, that is really how some men feel: totally trapped in the relationship with no way out. Perhaps ppl are marrying ppl they dont and cnt love or even ppl that dont love them. one thing I have to say is, u ask women to set up shelters but why dont u? assuming ur a bloke, would it not be more effective if u started one up, a guy, shows guys what guys think of guys that beat women. women can help women to leave but men can help women by showing men that its not normal to beat ur wife. ok u prob aint got time to set up a refuge, but u can contact these places and talk toi these guys or something? Its the men that can prevent it . Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh guys thanks, im shocked u actually thought it was a clever post, thank you ppl, my hankar has just rocketed, but im sorry i write long posts cos i dont have time to write short ones lol. the first compliment i had on SS, will print it out and frame it (just kiddin btw), thanks thanks thanks veerji Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

yeah I felt exactly like ur mum, I could not go up or down, I still dont know how I made it up and then back to Punjab again. Without Guru Ji's kirpa I could nver have done it. Thank God. BTW there was langar when we went. Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

Well we went ina group of about 30 cars so 6 ppl per car and a driver and it was really really wow, it makes the journey more fun having all that sangat with . whole community feel abt it, u look out for one another . We went up and stayed in a hotel for the night, I think it was called hotel badrinath and yeah we had booked the whole hotel :wub: , it was pretty clean apart from a massive spider there on the ceiling, im assuming they can be poisonous in that part of the country then we went up to the other Gurdwara, Gobind Dham or Gobind Ghat I'm not sure which comes first, then we went to the next one and we had 2 big halls where everyone would sleep there but I was feeling not so good and the person next to me was annoying so we had some sangat we were close to get us a room in the nearby hotel, so a few families stayed in the hotel which had disgusting (not washed) bed sheets, but to be honest ur so tired , u think its the last night of ur life so u just dont care, on a normal day u would not sleep in a bed that dirty to save ur life. We were nearly there but as I slept I told everyone I wasnt going to go up and they should leave me there, Im not even being melodramatic but I couldnt take it anymore, i was feeling sick the whole time and really i thought i should have died any minute then. Really if there is a time u want to die it is then so that u can be free from the pain. Funny thing, next morning I couldnt move but when it was time to leave I felt completely fine. so we went up, there we were. It took abt 2 hrs from the last Gurdwara I think. One thing u have to be prepared for is the cold weather, its better to take a horse with u but also walk, so just jump off ur horse every half an hr and while then the person who is taking u can sit on the horse and rest and u can get warmed up. The day we went was supposedly the hottest day the horse guys had seen that yr! and yet is was dam cold. once u get there, we tekked matha and sat down for abt an hr or two after doing ishnnaan, always do ishnaan as soon as u get there cos else ul be too cold to want to. i dont know what usually happens but kirtan was done by the sant we went with. but then u just wander around the place, take pictures whatever, really i would tell anyone to go, if u dont go u ur really missing out on something massive. Oh but dnt listen to the driver, he has gruesome stories to tell u abt ppl who died on the way there. erm if there is anything else to ask, then ask but i thinki said everything i could think of. Hope I havent put anyone off, I was in the worst condition out of everyone in the sangat and some ppl , i mean an 80yr old went smiling! Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

How can an amritdhari claim to feel proud of indians being rich, sick... ince when did money start to matter for true amritdharis? er...india made chess, and we supposed to feel proud, is thisguy mentally ill? I thought it was just hindus, Im debating with a hindu guy and he said that 1984 was not wrong, what did sikhs expect that hindus should do nothing when Gandhi died? I thought it was cos he was hindu but this psycho is ... i mean calls himself...sikh! so the fact that his mothers and sisters were raped means nothing because india invented chess?and cos indians are rich! would he sell the females in his family for money, sounds like it. :wub: Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

i wouldnt feel to comfortable eating a cow cos u drink the cows milk so its a bit nasty right.

well you could say we are copying the muslims by asking someone to convert if they want to marry us. But from what I know it is wrong for a non sikh to have an Anand Karaj because s/he has no real respect for Guru Ji. Then, some say only amritdharis should have an Anand Karaj as the others do not follow their Guru. But if mona 'sikhs' can have an Anand Karaj then why not with a non-sikh, that person also bows in front of Guru Ji and why is s/he any less a sikh than their mona partner who has sikh parents. Therefore it should be allowed and it would be wrong to ask them to convert. In my view it is totally wrong to make someone convert only so they can marry u and not because they have fallen inlove with Guru Ji. Copying the muslims would def be wrong in this situation, I dont know if u have heard that story of some professor singh who fell in love with a gori and she asked him to cut his hair and then she would marrry him and so he did and thenshe told him to get lost because a person that can not be faithful to God and his religion can not be faithful to his wife. Interesting point. I guess parents do this because at least they can be sure their grandchildren wont grow up as half buddhist or whatever religion the partner is. But it is wrong in my opinion to make someone convert because say someone is a christian and they go to church and they read the bible and u ask them to convert, well u've just taken them away from their idea of God, isnt that bad? Ok I dont know if any of that made any sense, thats what long hrs in seminars do to u so sorry to the sangat if my posts don make sense and i've wasted the time of those who did read my posts. and Jaspaul Singh veerji what the cop did was great but u have to ask urself what else this girl could have done, they were new from india, she did not know of any other option than to keep her families izzat and stay with this guy and plus it was not india so even if she wanted to she could not leave him because she probab dont know where to go. I know a guy in india, both his hands had been chopped off (to put it nicely) and he used to use his legs to beat his wife, men have this 'im the man' issue and violence can only stop when they get it into their heads that turning to violence actually shows a weakness in them, they feel insecure in some way adn want to prove to themself that they are powerful. u have to feel sorry for these men aswell and maybe sciety needs to teach them that it is a weakness to beat someone up, erm especially a woman. Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

Singh those are WOW and I love the first one, that is .... cant think of a word now, but yeah its def the best. :TH: love the pics of Sant Ji, esp on the right, that is so cute and its all dont so well so well done . Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

I was coming back from Sr i Hemkunt Sahib and lay in bed that night and told myself that I would never ever come back to ths Gurdwara, never never , u get back to the bottom, and oh GOD u want to go back again, weird real weird.

soz abt the jatt thing, I'm a 'jatt' myself but only used that example cos it was the only one that I know causes a lot of probs. erm cant help neighbour, she has moved and I never met her, heard abt her life from her mum who told my mum . But ok we can educate ppl, but u get proper educated men beating up their wives, and if someone tries to help then the woman sometimes doesnt want ur help, well she does but she cant because he'll jus tell her to go and then the prob is where does she go without losing something, its ridiculous that men can do this, I mean even amritdharis, I mean get a life guys who do this, ok ur wife is annoying u, she shouts too much , she complains, no reason to punch her Just want to throw all those men together and set them alight, happy burning to them. One guy beat up his wife quite a few times, I talked to the guy and he was saying how he would never in his life raise his hand so when she leaves and tells me why he says that she made him but he wouldnt have otherwise, this is like an educated guy born in the UK, u just wanna grab him and hit him against the wall till he bleeds but he is a strong guy so I didnt do anything. And then these guys cant understand why the wife leaves them , and if she is imported samaan then its ok to hit her cos she aint really a human being now or is she? And most guys I know that have hit their wife is either cos of the mum in law saying to them :wub: and they do :wub: or they are having an affair with a 'modern' girl so dont need to care abt the wife now do I? Forced marraiges come down to the izzat thing right but then the prob is take away the izzat thing and we got a prob, thats what keeps families together and means kids grow up in a sort of healthy environment and then they can lead normal lives, contrast to broken families where single parent unemployed or whatever and kids more liekly to turn to drugs etc. But just thinking, can domestic violence really totally disappear? You can change forced marriages part but this one is hard, I mean even goray go thru it and they dont look at izzat in the same way as us. Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

It is scary because our driver nearly threw down a motorbike on the way up, I dont know how they survived but the riders screamed thinking they were going to fall but somehow they didn't. They were a mm away from the edge at the max. This India hol was a life threatening experience but if you're going to die you're going to die, might as well live life to the full. On the way up u think ur gonna die, some do, but I;m back on my comp typing away. Everyone shud go, it was an experience, and we went in a group of abt 30 cars, road got blocked and we had no water for a while and everyone was thristy. All I can say is that it is amazing, near death experiences can actually be so fun but not death of course, oh and my horse nearly ran into a woman and I thought she was going to die of a heart attack b4 the horse got to her. Yatras are wow, really everyone should go but yeah I would meet all my relatvies b4 going just in case, I'm not being funny but real serious. Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh ji

All parents are obviously different and what we have to ask ourselves is WHY are people forced to marry someone they do not like. Sometimes the parents want their son/daughter to marry abroad (I mean India) because they can show the relatives that their daughter is in their 'control'. Or because their daughter is about to run off with a Sikh who happens to be tarkhan and they are jatt so they wont be able to show their face in the Sikh community ( I mean the jatt community) if she marrys him. Or the girl has simply gotten out of hand and is in more than one relationship. Other reasons I have not come across yet. Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

I went to Sachkhand Sri Hazoor Sahib, and Sri Hemkunt Sahib. Overal, definitely amazing. Once u get to Nanded u just dont want to leave, it is a truly amazing experience, u feel u canjust live there for ever. You feel detached fromthe outside world and feel like all your family lives there. It is like heaven, once u get in dont want to come out. Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

hey chill you're not being mean, diss me all you want it encourages debate, to be honest I really really have real respect for Sant Ji but everyone was on their side so I thought of something to say against them, wasnt much but hey it was something. :TH: Waheguru ji ka khasla waheguru ji ki fateh

well if some of us think that some amritdharis have an ''attitude prob'' then should we not work on that, i mean we say that the youth does not attend the Gurdwara etc etc but it is a little worrying if some of the youth is not attending because of the youth! I think ppl can cope with annoying auntjis at the Gurdwara harrassing u abt all sorts but when u got the youth that is cause for concern or am I babbling unnecessarily. Cant the sevadars talk abt hankar or something in whatever get together there is next. And what is the point in talking abt boys...fashion....etc in Gurmat camp :wub: I may be wrong but in my opinion amritdharris can have the maddest hankar because they think they are there when in reality just being amritdhari doesnt mean ur there (i'm amritdhari btw so I'm not dissing outsiders) but to all those on this forum who have an attitude prob and are amritdhari or know friends who are, mate please sort it out, it gives amritdharis such a not-so-nice image. Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh