Auzer

Suppose I'm an Atheist... I come up to you and say "Your Guru Nanak was a lier...God? Bah he doesn't even exist...Your Guru just lied to trap you guys..He was a ****" ... Now this is my "fact" ...but do you take it in that way? I can also say "Well Mr follower..I have no problem with you...but your Gurbani is just piece of ......." ...And suppose I pop up in EVERY thread and start posting tons of such things and links....Would that be acceptable to you? Secondly , posting facts should be allowed but posting Christian-missionary propaganda and copy-pasting hundreds of link. should not.. Thirdly , there is a time for every talk. Posting your so-called facts where they don't even belong is an insult. Suppose your loved one died...and I go "Dude , this new bollywood film is badass. I really loved it!" ...Now the thing I said is a "fact" in my world...but it doesn't belong where I'm spewing it. Same goes for you... Your so called 'facts' (read anti-Islamic propaganda) don't even belong to the place , thread , discussion etc you post them in.. Don't think people here are children. Members can see if somone is 'posting facts' or intentionally 'bashing/insulting the other faith' etc ..... MODS can explain you better than I did.

Colleges offering Halal Meat? Where? In Europe?

I don't agree with this bro. Pakistani pilots shooting down Israeli aircrafts is a fact known from very long time. Yes , probably , Zaid Hamid exaggerated it...but atleast 4 confirm kills are on the record... Don't listen to Zaid Hamid...He is craving for Ghazwa-e-Hind hahah.... But here is you can check what happened. This is from "Air Aces" website. This website is an encylopedia of ALL airwars of the world. They do not put anything in their site UNLESS they confirm it themselves from all parties involved. This site includes the names of Israeli pilots that were shot down , the seriel number of their aircrafts etc...And there is one other site too...known as http://www.ejection-history.org.uk ...but it is hugeeeeeeee...so navigating through it would be hard but this site also name 4 kills of Israeli air force at the hands of Pakistanis.. http://aces.safarikovi.org/victories/pakistan-middle.html

Oh yeah .... "researched" it further.... lol ... 4 Kills were confirmed by Israelis/Arabs. Pakistani pilots claimed even more victories and Israelis confirmed them as well....BUT...Arabs didn't confirm it. Arabs said that it was their pilots and not the Pakistani one's...so leave it. But 4 kills are confirmed by everyone....this also include shoting-down of a Miraage by Mig-21 ... So Pakistani pilots shot-down SUPERIOR Israeli aircraft with an INFERIOR Arab aircraft.....again they got lucky you know...By the way , I can also give you accounts of an American-trainer talking about F-16 training program in 1980-90s where Egyptian , Israeli , and Pakistani officers were getting their training for F-16s (All these nations had newly bought the aircrafts) ... According to him ,ALL Pakistani pilots were more aggressive than their Israeli counterparts... So please , unlike brainwashed , delusional shuppa powaa indians , Pakistanis don't believe in Urban legends. Indians believe that they are a future super power.....60% NASA guys are Indians...and Pakistan is just a run-over for mighty Indian sena etc...Pakistanis don't believe such fantasies... I already mentioned that even Pakistani pilots who engaged Israelis told that Israelis were VERY professional , skillful , well-trained , and determined.... And "Muslims" don't need to claim any victories.... History knows whats what..... Israel won 67' war hands down...no one claims otherwise..... No , I just told you that Pakistan does have a military presence in Middle-East .... Let me tell you this...Pakistan ALSO has a presence in China. I know about one Pakistani fighter officer who is deployed in China..He flys Chinese Su-30MKK ...Since IAF also has an aircraft similar to it...it would become pretty handy for PAF....All professional forces do that...Even IAF guys train against F-16s because PAF has 'em etc ... I don't claim that Pakistani military presence is a sign of power-projection in middle-east....but military presence seves the interest of Middle-East and Pakistan alike. Well Pakistan Army can't go head-on with United States military....but what you think what we did to Soviet Union? Soviets also attacked our border posts many times...but in the end..who won? We don't want US to stay in Afghanistan...and we will provide them safe passage to exist Afghanistan in 2014... Regarding this part of butt kicking...this is just a rhetoric. Our greater strategic interests serves well when we AVOID confrontration with the US and keep fighting the secret war we are fighting with them.... So yeah... Remember 2001 stand-off? India spent thousand of crores and deployed like million troops on the border...At the time..Pakistan was under-sanctions but yet you didn't dare to cross the border. At the end : India spent some thousands of crores , lost some 798 soldiers , and then unilaterally withdrew from the stand-off that it started! Hence another victory for Pakistan.... Why was it? Pakistan kicked India's bu.tt but yet no action? Even when Pakistan was at its historic weakest again India? Its all about interests...The war with Pakistan was not in interest of Indian state at that time..simple. Same goes with Pakistan and America...

Agree! Believe me , I get MAD at UK Muslims as to why they let retards like Anjem Chaudry to speak as "representative of Muslim community" .... Muslims must clean out the black ships from their own community

Again wrong. I know about a guy who is a professor at Yale University and he even has its own mosque (thats how practicing he is) ...He funds it etc...And there are TONS of such examples.... Turks are more practicing than even Iranian..and they are highly educated! Malaysians , Indonesians etc are the same. Lack of education and poverty is the unfortunate fact of subcontinet...it doesn't have anything to do with religion. Plus : In Islam , getting education on men and women is obligatory. So yeah , Islam also has equality that you talk about in Sikhi... And it depends what Islamic country you talk about.... Turkey is secular and accomodate all faiths...Indonesia and Malaysia are Islamic states but yet deal with minorities pretty well... But if you compare with the West..yes , Muslim world has still a longgggg way to go in terms of pluralism.. Evil practices are present in every society/culture. Secondly , you are mixing Afghanistan with Iran. I never tried to put Sikhi down...never. Also I didn't say that eating meat is natural...my question was something else..but anyways leave it.

Offcourse. East Pakistan was a political defeat of West Pakistan...Pakistan had lost the war even before it began. The guy above stated that since there was no bengali in PAF in 71' , therefore PAF was a joke. I just educated him on that. Yup lucky..... Pakistani pilots and Israeli pilots faced eachother on several times in 2 DIFFERENT conflicts..One in 67' and second in 73' ..guess what?.... EVERY time , Pakistani pilots shot-down their Israeli counter parts..and not the vice versa...hecka lucky I must accept..Remember , Pak pilots weren't even flying their own machines..They were flying Arab aircrafts... Pakistani pilots also shot down 14 Soviet Aircrafts....lucky again.... BTW , Pakistanis who shot-down Israelis tell the stories of how remarkably professional and well-trained Israelis were even upto this day... And Arabs lost the war because of their incompetence..Just because few Pakistani pilots voluntarily went in the conflict..it doesn't mean that this would have overcame Arab inexperience and lack of professionalism. And Saudis had Pakistani instructors...just like they had American instructors..... I don't know if they still have some Pakistanis there...Saudis are now completely "Saudinizing" their forces/defense industries.... 40+ years have passed...don't think Arabs are same as they were before..,,there is alot of improvement... Just FYI , Pakistani pilots who shot down IDAF aircrafts weren't even flying for Saudis...They were flying for Syrian and Iraqi AFs ... So this higherpaid bhayia and camel jockey joke can go to trash. Plus : Pakistan does maintain a significant military presence in the Middle-East ... Pakistani Army have deployed an entire division there....

Well I read 4 articles from your resources ( 2 from Sikhsearch , 2 from whyIchosesikhi site ) ---ALL of them were lies , propaganda , and agenda pushing. Quoting Qur'an out of context...Quoting verses of battle with Quraish as if they were 'general' commands for Muslims (which they are not , if you read the context) ..and many more such things. One article was EXACT copy-paste of Christian missionary sites..I've already read these articles long time ago...and Muslim responses to these articles as well.... One of the rebuttal to one of Sikhsearch article "Contradicting Allah" is here http://islamic-repli...ting_Allah.html My request/suggestion from Sikhs would be to stay away from this dirty game. Let Christians and Muslims do this. Islam and Christianity are competiting with eachother for CENTURIES! All these so called 'hidden faults in Islam' you see were discussed by Christians in 10th century too!!! And Islamic scholars replied are also from this era. There are 100s of websites , youtube video content , forums etc doing this back-and-forth ping pong b/w Islam and Christianity! I don't know why Sikhs are indulging in it. Do you want Islamic Apologists to come after your faith too? So quit this cut-paste , out of context , and maligning Islam game And oh yeah...after these four articles...I stopped reading because who wants to read lies , myths , agenda-pushing , and Christian missionary rhetorics? Well how awesome of you! I reported some guys again and again and again and again and again and again...who were literally abusing Islam for no reason..yet you didn't put them into moderation...but just because my "tone" is not right...You have a problem with me? Guess what caused this tone to become hardened? MODS inaction against trollers! BAH. And just my 'tone' became hard..if you were on my place...you would've broke your keyboard.

WHAT?!?! What a joke! PAF is THE ONLY force in WHOLE sub-continent that has remained "undefeated" through-out history. In 1971 , PAF just battered IAF yet again...but this time..IAF's performace was little better... Have you read Chuck Yeager's commentary on this conflict? Chuck Yeager is one of top 10 BEST fighters of whole human history..He was the first human to break the sound-barrier...He was deployed in war-sector as a war-observer from UN (if you know what that is) ... He used to monitor the conflict...and here are his words that he described in his personal autobiography... "The Pakistanis whipped their [indians'] [MOD REMOVAL] in the sky, but it was the other way around in the ground war. The air war lasted two weeks and the Pakistanis scored a three-to-one kill ratio, knocking out 102 Russian-made Indian jets and losing thirty-four airplanes of their own. I'm certain about the figures because I went out several times a day in a chopper and counted the wrecks below. I counted wrecks on Pakistani soil, documented them by serial number, identified the components such as engines, rocket pods, and new equipment on newer planes like the Soviet SU-7 fighter-bomber and the MiG-21 J, their latest supersonic fighter. The Pakistani army would cart off these items for me, and when the war ended, it took two big American Air Force cargo lifters to carry all those parts back to the States for analysis by our intelligence division. " The excerpt is very long but this is the relevant part. See he is not biased. He is describing what it is. He clearly that that Indians whoopeeddd Pakistan's a$$ in ground war lol..but he clearly mentions PAF's great victory over IAF yet again! PAF is the most professional arm of sub-continental forces. It faced NO corruption scandals like IAF , IA , PA , PN , IN etc .... PAF shot-down 14 soviet fighters..and lost just 1 one its own....your IAF would p*ss in pants if they had to go against an airforce like that giant Soviets!!!!!!!!! And do I even need to mention what PAF fly-boys did to Israelis in Arab? Pakistani pilot Sattar Alvi is the only man of the world who have shot-down two Israeli aircrafts alone..He was even able to shot-down Israeli Miraage with his Arabian Mig-21! .... PAF is way a smaller force..yet it produced 2 Ace pilots! IAF didn't produce even a single ACE during whole history!!!!! PAF is WAY , WAY more experienced force than IAF... PAF successfully fought with Soviet Air Force , Israeli Air Force , and Indian Air Force!!! So kindly , please keep this rants to yourself. Even with all the numerical and technological superiority , IAF didn't dare to do any surgical strike in Pakistan after mumbai attacks...your commanders know what PAF is capable of!!!! Your supreme aircrafts (Su-30MKI , MIraage-2000) came in Pakistani skies after 2008 mumbai attacks...but they were immediately "locked-on" by PAF F-16s! No side engaged the other side..otherwise , PAF would've shot-down your Su-30MKI .... After the incident...IAF NEVER dared to cross the border again..even though whole India was crying "surgical strikes on Pak" ...lol.. And here is your media discussing the Indian Military's report about PAF ... See what is says

Oh yeah..Iran , Turkey , Malaysia , Indonesia , Qatar etc are behind in women education while Indian Punjab is ahead? LMAO! Please , spare me this bullsh!t .... Iran alone beats WHOLE INDIA (not just Indian punjab) in women higher education enrollement (by percentage) .... I know you guys can just blabber but can never give any facts..... So much so...that in come fields..Iran had to put 'ban' on further women enrollement...you know why? Because 70% of whole field were women! So Iran prefered guys and is trying to 'balance' ... and this is just one country... And before making a fool outa yourself again...even Pakistan is ranked ahead of India in women-equality index!!!!!!!! LOL... now what?

Exactly. Sikh sites that Mehtab quoted are just spewing lies/fabrications ...and that too...by copy-pasting christian sites (don't even have own brain to criticize? lol) .. So whats the point , eh? Would you care what some anti-Sikh propaganda site is lying about sikhi? No right? Same goes for Muslims...Nobody even gives a tiny sh!t about these laughable lies....

lololol...What a dumb failed logic. So I am a Pakistani...thats why I'm automatically bringing Islam in? wth? And YES , honey...Inferiority-complex. I posted something about politics in Punjab...and some Sikhs members replied " ------- (talked about the issue) ...BUT in Islam...there is so many bad things..contradicitions..violence....(and then copy-pasted christian websites) ...blah blah) .... And I was was "What? Where did Islam came in" ..and then again same copy-paste...then again..same copy-paste...everywhere...even though I , or the topic , did not even mention Islam for once...THIS is utter inferiority-complex of Sikhs on this forum.... So HAVE TO batter Islam to feel good , eh? Even though the topic is not even remotely close to Islam/Muslims etc... Whereas , Muslims would never do that....why? Because we don't need to 'find' mistakes in others to 'satisfy' ourselves... So keep your failed logic to yourself..and try to remove inferiority-complex of your fellow Sikhs ...

World domination? lol And even if this is the case (a notion which is hilarious!)...then don't you think that United States of America will be a bigger challenge for "Muslims" (As if Muslim is a one , unified guy) ... C'mon ..... There are approximately 45 million to 60 million Muslims in the Europe and now Islam is establishing itself in the European mainland too , with thousands of mosques being built all over Europe , Mashallah (Guess what? Crusades failed. lol) .... So OBVIOUSLY ..you will have cases where Muslim boys will convert Sikh girls etc...BUT....many Muslim girls are also converted to Sikhism/Christianity etc and marry their loved one's... These things are inevitable...but please don't think that Muslims are hell bent on converting Sikh girls etc... Sikh guys also trick many Muslim girls....so please...stop generalizing...

LOL! I am reading some of the articles...and it is all bs... Quoting Qur'an out of context....taking weak translations...maligning Islam...Typical Christian-missionary tactic! huh! I thought you'll give me some better thing to read... Expected too much from you... Guess what? One of the sites even MENTIONS that this article is taken from this-this site (Famous Christian apologetic anti-Islam site) ... What a joke! Same Christians are converting loads and loads of Sikhs from Punjab...and you are using their propaganda to malign Islam? Better save Sikhs rather than promoting missionary anti-Islamic works?

See your inferiority complex? Why would I want to "convert" some young extremist Sikh youths? lol... Islam is already the largest practiced faith of the planet..and second largest 'nominal' faith... quarter of entire humanity practices this faith , Mashallah... Please spare me this BS of converting etc..I never even mentioned Islam ..... SIKHS mentioned it FIRSTT...how how am I trying to convert others? huh! I'm just ignoring their insulting posts...what you think I can't insult sikhi in return? Insulting any ideology is really easy...but taking the high-ground and ignoring the one that is insult you or your faith is not so easy.... It take balls...that many teenage kids of this forum don't have.... . Wrong! Dhikar is mainstream Islam... Even Tasawuf (which you call Sufism) IS mainstream Islam...but "grave-worshipping" is not...sadly , many Pakistanis see Sufism as "grave-worshipping" and hence they reject it in their ignorce... One of the largest Islamic Countries like Turkey , Central Asian Muslim states etc pracitce Sufi-Islam...are they practicing some deviant cult? LOL! No sir...it is Islam they all practice...Kindly don't think that views of "Pakistanis" represent global Islam...Views of Pakistanis are just views of Pakistanis...thats it. Pakistanis see sufism as grave worshipping...and this is obviously deviation from Islam...but Sufism is part of mainstream Islam.... BS! Proselytizing? huh. I did not even make ONE post with this intention! lol Oh I never even saw this thread before....Thanks..I'll go through it....... Ok.