akhandeurope

Dear Consc - Normally Gursikhs who believe in raag mala do so because a human (gursikh/sant) told them to rather then doing real research. We know what is bani or not but I'm afriad I really disagree with anyone who prints/writes a saroop without rag mala. You may think why if this isn't gurbani? The fact is the panth has issued clear hukum - you don't have to read rag mala (akal takth didn't read it in early days until someone decided to change marada without consulting panth) but noone should dare print/write a saroop without rag mala beacuse this issue is unsolved. Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh was a panthic gursikh, he would never go against the akal takth. So please tell your veers to obey authority of the panth's direct hukum, even though there is clear evidence which suggests rag mala is not gurbani.

Is this another one of n30s indirect insults at akj which sikhsangat claimed was against it's policy? One shouldn't be so venemous at heart even if they become better at hiding it over the years. Anyway on this topic - Sant Gurbachan Singh of DDT didn't have typical hindu influenced views on sikhi like other sampradaee gyanis. So if some taksalis prefer to take gurmat stance in footsteps of Sant Gurbachan Singh it's unfair to label them new age taksalis and then blame other groups for correct gurmat vichaar when it hurts your heavily vedantic, many paths are good, all lead to waheguru, non gurmat type thinking.

The main point is to those who call themselves "taksali" but choose to disrespect bhai sahib, then please read these bachans by Sant Gurbachan Singh and realise your mistake and refrain from making the same mistake in future.

This seems to be a response from an over zelous mod whos had a bad day, or a typical anti akj response. Either I didn't learn the rules of English language correctly, or English isn't your first language. I think I should clear this up for you and the online members, so don't think I'm trying to take the mick. If someone is rightly upset at the actions of a few in the akj and call them some foolish akj people, that is not an attack on akj, just complaining about a few whos actions are against gurmat but decide to call themselves "akj". Same way saying nowadays there are some foolish "people" in taksaal, when these few have done serious ninda of bhai sahib, that is calling those people foolish not "taksaal" foolish. I'm sure you've heard people say "some foolish sikhs", this isn't an attack on sikhi is it? It seems you need to defend a certain panthic group rather sikhi itself! I'm not trying to give you an English lesson here, but am trying to clear what I was saying. I also mentioned a few taksaalis have made facebook pages in the past insulting akj and bhai sahib, and also praising Sant Gurbachan Singh in the same page (this is how we know someone who thinks of themselves as taksali created these pages). What was the need to delete that line? We all know there have been insulting comments against akj and bhaisahib on this forum, and they don't get any warnings, just a over delayed topic closure. Whereas I was stating truth (even though it may hurt) and you feel the need to abuse your mod powers against me. I've made it clear above that I have not spoken bad against any panthic jathebandi, you obviously greatly misunderstood the way I said it. I don't know if you're aware of this problem, but some youngsters in recent past who call themselves taksali have been noted making very bad anti akj remarks (real life and online). As a gursikh how can we try and hide this truth, and not stand with the truth? If you detected a strong tone in my post then you're right, and I have every right to. If anyone else's sant is slandered then its world war 3, in akj we are alot more tolerant against slander of bhai sahib. We live in democratic countries, not arab countries, so there should be a level of democracy and free speech on this forum. Yes if somone makes false allegations of slanders a panthic jatha, stop them by all means (but I've clearly showed above you really did misunderstood my language). We have every right to complain if there is a problem in the panth, as a gursikh you should undertand this. Not once have I slandered a panthic gursikhs or panthic organisation. I hope you are moral enough to understand my post and reply to this to make your stand clear and clear any confusion. What was reason for your rude outburst? Was it a simple case of misunderstanding me? Very dissapointed...but thanks for your time.

But some foolish say Sant ji was pooran brahmgyani but then go against his writings. Calling someone brhamgyani then going against their views, bachans is mere words in the ends. Even though bhai sahib hasn't specifically praised Sant Gurbachan Singh in his wiritings akj singhs still show respect to Sant ji, because gursikhs know its unwise to show disrespect to any highly kmayee wala gursikh of any jatha. Sant ji was very strong in his veiws on things like rag mala but still chose to praise bhai sahib so highly!? This shows Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh was truly someone really special with alot of kmayee and of very very high avastha. There are many things mentioned and described in detail in bhai sahib's books which can't be found anywhere else.

No need to ask anyone about krishan. Read gyaan khand pauri of japji sahib and you'll see clearly that krishna and the countless other krishnas reside in gyaan khand. Another point, krishna has been praised and downright condemened and insulted showing that krishna must have been a powerful being with avastha, but certainly not anywhere near pooran avastha or highest destinaton of sachkhand.

You cannot use gurbani to prove importance of sarbloh just as you cannot use gurbani to prove importance of 5 kakaars. Yes bibek in gurbani is really about bibek budhi, although dietry bibek is one aspect of total bibek. However gurbani does give clues to not eat from non devotess (non gursikhs) look into updesh from gurbani on gurmantar heenus individuals (those without gurmantar).

About not knowing about Mani Singh's earlier life, I don't know anything about childhood but in early days he was in the akhand kirtani jatha known as Resham Singh. Then at some point bhai sahib believed he needed to go down the path of doing parchaar in UK. He was a very strict sarbloh bebeki and I believe he kept this rehit strictly even after changing himself to Sant Mani Singh. We should try and learn guns from gursikhs. This gursikh seemed to have love and compassion and certainly did his naam/bani.

Mut pulo rai, that's the point I'm trying to make that even though there are all these differences still all apart from you and your particular sangat believe guru sahib gave charan amrit. Amrit through shabad? this is inner avastha, why don't some realise that there is outer sikhi and inner sikhi, both are required. By the way to get shabad one first has to become a sikh of the saadhguru, through initiation. There is physical amrit to drink which enters you into sikhi, there's also inner amrit. There is also amrit pervading everywhere. Who knows how many levels and countless gifts there there, only guru sahib does. Regarding dristhee there are various avasthas for the eyes, and you can interpret the tuks anyway you want. Eyes get darshan, one gets dib dristhee, eyes fill up with amrit etc Its true the more kmayee punj pyare have the more "kala" on amrit through their eyes, but the amrit is truly made by the 5 amrit baniyaa, this is the main ingredient. The kmayee of punj pyare just depend on your karma.

This is blatent ninda to say Guru ji didn't give charan pahul. It doesn't need to be mentioned in gurbani, because gurbani is mainly focused on internal and uniting jeev with akal. You've obviously been brainwashed, I figured out which group and person you follow, and you confirmed this by PM. I think it's only fair that I leave it upto you if you wish to share this with the rest of cyber sangat. Look at akj and other sampradas, so many differences, but they all - these jathas, taksaals, smarada ALL believe guru sahib gave charan pahul, only one easily brainwashed would believe otherwise if told by a new "sant" or "gurmukh" or whatever. I sent you a couple of long pms talking in detail about certain avasthas, one example was unhad shabad. I showed you how sounds like bells and drums etc are yogmat anhad shabads and nothing to do with gurmat. You had no answer for this because your group believes these to be real anhad shabads. I still had respect for your group because you spend time doing naam simran, but distorting history such as this, that's unacceptable! Next you'll say khanda bate di amrit was created after guru gobind singh ji. To get FULL udhaar and reach top most avastha, one has to become sikh of guru sahib through amrit. Read first ang of guru granth sahib and you’ll see “gurprasad” only with guru’s grace does one fully realise waheguru. In Guru Nanak's (and following guru sahibaan) time charan pahul was given, then guru sahib would place their hand on head (this shows if it’s ok for guru sahib to place hand on head then it’s also ok for guru roop punj pyare to do the same, but that’s a different topic), some gursikhs instantly became brahmgyani! others had to do their own kmayee, it was upto guru sahib how much kirpa he did during amrit shakuona. Guru Gobind Singh just changed the marada, because gurugadi next was going to larivaar saroop Guru Granth Sahib ji. This is a childish argument about not worshipping punj tat, whatever that thing where Satguru’s jot resides that becomes pure amrit and worthy of bowing down to, whether it was in body form or now in granth form. Guru sahib would dip his toe in bowl of water, and that was enough to turn water into amrit. Then guru sahib would do drirta of naam by however much kirpaa he wanted to do. Some would get to stage of automatic simran, while some would reach top most avastha straightaway. Now about charan in gurbani, I "suggest" you read "charan kamal ji mauj" by Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh, even though I know you wont. So I'll explain a little here. Having darshan of charan means 1st proper darshan of waheguru. Gursikhs should know that waheguru is beyond punj tat (so no phyiscal feet), so having darshan of god's feet is a magnificent prakaash. Reaching this avastha means you have chance of meeting waheguru fully. When guru sahib does kirpa and allows gursikh to see charans of waheguru then anand at that time becomes unbearable. The prakash is this bright: ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਤ ਕੋਟਿ ਸੂਰ ਉਜਾਰਾ ਬਿਨਸੈ ਭਰਮੁ ਅੰਧੇਰਾ ॥੧॥ Chanting the Naam, the Name of the Lord, the light of millions of suns shines forth, and the darkness of doubt is dispelled. ||1|| In sikh deras, which do not follow gumart, you cannot see praakaash of this magnitude, normally prakaash in deras is more dull and nowhere near as bright. About SEEING charan: ਚਰਨ ਪਿਆਸੀ ਦਰਸ ਬੈਰਾਗਨਿ ਪੇਖਉ ਥਾਨ ਸਬਾਏ ॥ I thirst for His Feet, and I long for the Blessed Vision of His Darshan; I look for Him everywhere. Guru Sahib describing the beauty of charan kamal in sukhmani sahib: ਚਰਨ ਕਮਲ ਜਾ ਕੇ ਅਨੂਪ ॥ His Lotus Feet are incomparably beautiful. When gurbani talks about washing charan and drinking in them, practically this means after jot vigaas has happened and you can see prakash of akal purkahs/guru’s charan within, then washing the feet is doing swaas swaas simran and drinking the amrit while the anand keeps on increasing. Also remember many times saadh, sant in gurbani refers to guru sahib.

Mat pulo rai, I think you're greatly mistaken if you think that shabadh you quoted shows your avastha. Just merely tasting sweetness in your tounge isn't gurmat russ. The real har amrit russ is when a gurmukh constantly drinks in it and this amrit flows throughout the body. This only comes with aathpehar abhiyaas. With each breath absorbed in automatic simran the amrit flows and the russ increases as avastha goes up. When one truly gets russ, all other pleasures of maya, whether it's food, tv, sleep etc seem very lowly in comparison to anand of amrit. Anyways if you're doing 3.5 hours simran a day then in this kaljug I applaud your effort. However to get proper kirpa, one needs to make sure they are keeping full physical rehit (as prescribed by guru gobind singh for amritdharis) ontop of doing this much naam simran, plus reading plenty of extra gurbani, listening to kirtan, doing sangat, seva and so on. Regarding dawkins, ff the mind is under control of the punj chor then perhaps it's better not to get into these naastik topics as it could ruin your faith. First do your kmayee then have debates with other people aslong as you think it will benefit them.

haha...the sardar filming the video handed the situation perfectly with just the right amount of patronising to put this racist gori in her place. The singh filming should be awarded a siropa by the panth. Dhan sikhi!

I am a worm compared to gursikhs like Sant Jagjit Singh. The main thing in gurmat is to do naam/bani kmayee, so you could say Sant Jagjit Singh is living in the gurmat way, as he does his bhagti. However if you read my post again you will see that I meant his "views" or "vichaar" and others like him are not inline with gurmat and I showed just one particular point on this. However if I did upset anyone then I am sorry.

My brother N30S1ngh, Sant Jagjit Singh vichaar are very far from gurmat, like many other sants. If I could do sangat with Sant ji I would consider myself vadbhagi and enjoy my time doing paath with him etc I've heard he does good amout of kmayee and has good personal qualities. However I would have to ignore his main views like you should do so also. Typical chelas will rather believe their sants over gurbani causing them to become beymukh. I read a trasncript of a q and a with sant ji and there are many things I didn't agree on. Now the thing is you and I can provide many tuks and intrepret them our ways so I wont argue over those several points. However there are cases where it's so obvious that a particular point of a sant is against gurbani that I find it amazing how their chelas chose to believe their sant instead. One obvious point where this sant ji is wrong: The interviewer asked Sant Jagjit Singh about how krishana has been talked about very negatively in places in dasam granth. Sant ji completly ignored this point and said Krishna resides in sachkhand. Firstly sant ji should have been humble enough to accept krishna has been protrayed negatively at times but the absurd notion that sri krishna resides in sachkhand boggles the mind when one does even very basic research on gurbani. Firstly there are coutless krishnas but we on this particular planet and this partiulcar cycle of jugs, only know of one. This is cleary stated in japji sahib. No way does krishna reside in sachkhand. Read the gyan khand pauri and you see krishna along with countless other krishna beings reside in gyaan khand. How can you dispute this clear gurbani bachan in jap ji sahib! This proves that sants and gursikhs may reach an avastha and mistake it for sackhand, but in reality are very far from sookhmehal/saach mehal/sachkhand. Everything happens in Akal's hukum so it was destined that you have a mindset more like a samprada sikh and that's fine, but alteast have the intelligence to follow the best sant out of all sants in sampradas. This surely would be Sant Gurbachan Singh? Focus on his vichaar if you wish to follow any sants. My personal favourite sant is Sant Attar Singh followed by Sant Gurbachan Singh, but from a samprada point of view surely Sant Gurbhacan has most gyaan and tons of kmayee? Of course I have my disagreements with Taksaal and rest such as raag mala, kakar issue, but these are just physical marada differences. Apart from these little things Sant Gurbachan Singh kept full rehit while also doing alot of kmayee.

It is best to read Bhai Randhir Singh's small book "sachkhand darshan" which talks about all 5 khands with proof from gurbani. Those in lower spirtuality make wrong statments like sachkhand is also on this earth. Imagine if akal purkah was like a sun. The light rays (prakaash) of sun goes to all planets in the solar system and these rays travel several millions of miles. But the physical sun is still millions of miles away. Same way waheguru is everywhere (his prakaash) but like the physical sun is very far away same way "home" of waheguru "sachkhand" is also very far from us. Here is description of sachkand (sookh mehal) in gurbani: sUhI mhlw 5 ] soohee mehalaa 5 | Soohee, Fifth Mehl: sUK mhl jw ky aUc duAwry ] sookh mehal jaa kae ooch dhuaarae | His Mansions are so comfortable, and His gates are so lofty. qw mih vwsih Bgq ipAwry ]1] thaa mehi vaasehi bhagath piaarae |1| Within them, His beloved devotees dwell. ||1|| shj kQw pRB kI Aiq mITI ] sehaj kathaa prabh kee ath meethee | The Natural Speech of God is so very sweet. ivrlY kwhU nyqRhu fITI ]1] rhwau ] viralai kaahoo naethrahu ddeethee |1| rehaao | How rare is that person, who sees it with his eyes. ||1||Pause|| qh gIq nwd AKwry sMgw ] theh geeth naadh akhaarae sangaa | There, in the arena of the congregation, the divine music of the Naad, the sound current, is sung. aUhw sMq krih hir rMgw ]2] oohaa santh karehi har rangaa |2| There, the Saints celebrate with their Lord. ||2|| qh mrxu n jIvxu sogu n hrKw ] theh maran n jeevan sog n harakhaa | Neither birth nor death is there, neither pain nor pleasure. swc nwm kI AMimRq vrKw ]3] saach naam kee anmrith varakhaa |3| The Ambrosial Nectar of the True Name rains down there. ||3|| guhj kQw ieh gur qy jwxI ] guhaj kathaa eih gur thae jaanee | From the Guru, I have come to know the mystery of this speech. nwnku bolY hir hir bwxI ]4]6]12] naanak bolai har har baanee |4|6|12| Nanak speaks the Bani of the Lord, Har, Har. ||4||6||12||