munjoth

So according to the tarmala cult you can only take their amrit if have have reached a certain avashta and this avashta is judged by the tarmaleh panj pyareh. ^^ Bhai sewa singh tarmala is not the guru, only the punj pyara are, i think you are confusing yourself?? As per Guru Gobind Singhs Rehit only the punj may administer the amrit and our satguru Guru Granth sahib ji has told us the duty of the Guru (punj pyara) and what gifts they have to give, In turn the satguru has also told us what we need to have in order to receive this gift of amrit The reason I have reffered to this amrit as tarmala amrit is because this is NOT Guru Gobind Singh Jee's amrit. Maharaj did not let you only take amrit if you had reached a certain avasta. ^^ Can you provide reference for this? Our pratan singhs were not sitting on tamogun (rajgun tamgun satgun ehhi kheya teri saab maya) they had risen above maya, and were prevesh (present) in his desh, this would be really insulting to assume other wise. Amrit is the beggining of the journey. Avastas come afterwards. How can one even dream of fighting the panj chor and reaching high avastas without the power of amrit inside them. How can one japp naam properlry when naam is given at the amrit sanchaar by the panj pyaareh ^^ amrit is food for the mind, when a abhyaasi drinks amrit from the inside it is food for his or her mind. now 10sm pitta created this khanda bhati da amrit for the khalsa fauj, for the siphai role - when a sant/siphai has to leave his or her body take out the sookham akaar and go do duty where ever waheguru choose to place the siphai the siphai will need kraakh (food) and this is amrit that has been created by Guru Gobind Singh Ji. It is kraakh for the siphai when he is out in the brahamand (universe) doing duty. The subject of the punj choor is quite simple, anand sahib says: shabad vaaja kala jit kar dharia punj dhoot duda vaas keeta kaal kunt komara. When you shabad vaaj (you hear the shabads) then these 5 demons come under bay and you beat kaal. This can only be done through simran abhyaas. NAAM can only be given by the satguru: bin nama mukt naah bhavi koei bin satgur ko naam naah pai. This naam liberates you but can only been given by the SATGURU and not the GURU (Punj). If you refer to the gurumanter you are right, the guru has given us this manter, but anyone can japp it but can only take effect by the jugtis bestowed in guru granth sahib jis bani. As for your final point on taksals, other gurdwaras and amrit - We see on a regular basis that people take amrit in the thousands, yet most of them go home hang there kirpans up and drink. This is because the punj don't practically test the one wanting the amrit to see if he has reached the status as per gurbani of sant paad.

As promised ive found the katha of the 5 taats, as per sukhmani sahib: This is how we pass the 5 elements, which will cause the body to shake for a short period of time: OUR BODY IS MADE OF FIVE ELEMENTS(WATER,AIR,FIRE,EARTH AND EATHER/AKAASH).GURU ARJAN DEV JI IN SUKHMANI SAHIB VERY ELABORATELY DESCRIBES THE TECHNIQUE TO TRANSCEND THE FIVE ELEMENTS. 1. AIR ELEMENT: GURUJI TELL US HOW TO CONCENTRATE THE MIND AND TRANSCEND THIS ELEMENT.THE ATMOSPHERIC AIR SOMETIMES FLOWS GENTLE AND IS AT OTHER TIMES FAST AND STORMY. THE PAON TAT (THE AIR ELEMENT) WITHIN THE BODY BEHAVES THE SAME WAY.ITS FLOW RISES AND EBBS. THE UNSTEADY BEHAVIOR OF AIR DISTURBS OUR MENTAL EQUILIBRIUM. WE NEED GURU SHABAD TO STEADY AND FOCUS OUR MIND IN THE VORTEX OF WIND WITHIN. JIO MANDIR KO THAAMAI THAMAN TIO GUR KAA SHABAD MANAH ASTHAMAN (PAGE 282) 2. WATER ELEMENT: AS A BOAT IS NEEDED TO CROSS A RIVER; SO, IS THE GURUSHABAD NEEDED TO FERRY MIND ACROSS THE WATER ELEMENT WITHIN THIS BODY.GURBANI SAYS. JIO PAAKHAAN NAAV CHARH TARAI PRAANEE GUR CHARAN LAGAT NISTARAI (PAGE 282) 3. FIRE ELEMENT: TO PROTECT OURSELVES FROM THE ATMOSPHERIC HEAT, WE SEEK SHELTER IN THE SHADE. WE DO HAVE THE ELEMENT OF FIRE WITHIN THE BODY. GURU SHABAD PROVIDES SHADY SHELTER TO OUR MIND AND PROTECTS IT FROM THE HEAT OF THE FIRE WITHIN. JAH MAHAA BHA-I-AAN TAPTA BAHU GHAAM TAH HAR KE NAAM KEE TUM OOPER CHHAAM ( PAGE 264) WHERE THERE IS AWESOME AND TERRIBLE HEAT AND BLAZING SUNSHINE, THERE ,THE NAME OF LORD WILL GIVE YOU SHADE. DHARTI TAT ( EARTH ELEMENT):AS WE NEED LIGHT TO GO THROUGH DARKNESS; SO WE NEED LIGHT OF GURU SHABAD TO SEE OUR WAY THROUGH THE DARKNESS OF THIS EARTH ELEMENTS WITHIN. JEH PAINDAI MAHAA ANDH GUBAARA HAR KA NAAM SANG UJEEAARAA (PAGE 264) SKY ELEMENTS: SPACE IS INFINITE AND DISTANCES VERY LONG.EMBARKING UPON A LONG JOURNEY WE NEED FOOD AND WATER FOR SURVIVAL.TO COMPLETE THIS LONG JOURNEY WITHIN THE INNER SPACE,WE NEED GURU GIVEN FOOD OF GURU SHABAD. JIH MAARAG KE GANE JAAHE NA KOSAA HAR KA NAAM OOHAA SANG TOSSA (PAGE 264) This is the very basic of the 5 elements katha. This is the same akath katha that was discussed when kh@ls@ veer ji came down on sunday. If anyone has other queries regarding this akath katha parchaar or would like to learn the methods of doing simran or simply want to discuss the parchaar, raise your concerns anyone is more then welcome to come down and do this, we can arrange a time for the sangat to get together and openly talk about your concerns, the address is: Prabh Milne Ka Chaho Gurudwara Dixion street SWINDON SN1 3PL

No I understand it is a normal amrit sanchaar the question I'm really asking is why do the tarmaleh reject sangat at amrit sanchaars. Did Guru Gobind Singh Jee reject sangat? Do any of the takhts reject sangat? ^^Yes ive explained those rejected were not at sant status, guru gobind singh ji did not reject anyone at the amrit sanchaar as those gurmukhs were already trained to sant status, how can our partaan singhs be any lower. But these amrit sanchaars met up to what gurbani tells us that the guru should give us: darshan of vaheguru, akath katha gyaan and shabad. Ask yourself this do the punj at the thakats give you these gifts as per gurbani, darshan of vaheguru, akath katha gyaan and attachment to the shabad

no, my wording may of confused you i am refering to khanda bhati da amrit, prepared by the punj - as one person is not able to give amrit as per gurmat.

kh@ls@ ji in simple terms you had to be at Sant paad MINIMUM to take this amrit, and the way this was tested was if you had the sehaj dhun - the punj would check this by taking a look to see if you were doing an assan where the anhad shabads are heard.

Sarpanch how could this have occured during the summer months there were no diwans at swindon, as a) there was an extension of the gurdwara taking place and as well as that during later summer months the diwans were cancelled as the sangat had gone to india for a naam abhyaas camp at moga. I will need a specific date, what was said the person involved.

as mentioned before i am currently writing it up, as this katha i am not 100% familiar with - i must first reference about passing of the 5 elements as per sukhmani sahib, give me some time for this thank you. with your reply to the rejection i am saying this The Gurus requirements are as follows: DHUN MUN DHAN SAAB SOPAN GUR KO HUKAM MANYA PAEYA now if you read this the guru title is given to the punj yes? Now the guru here is saying that i want your DHUN (body) MUN (mind) and DHAN (wealth of breathes) Now on a practical note the Punj at moga said that this DHUN now belongs to the guru and you use it to do sewa as the guru commands, this mind and breathe also belongs to the guru and how ever the guru commands it shall be used, if the guru tells you that you wont have one thought then you wont have one thought for the set amount of time. that is the requirement of the GURU, this title is given to the PUNJ PYARAI Now i am saying if you have not gone to the dasam dwaar it is not possible to stop your thoughts because gurbani guru says so, if your vaasa is not in nijghar how can you obey this mahan hukum of the guru?? Because giving your mind and breathe to the guru when you yourself can't control your mind would mean = not obeying the guru (punjs) hukum. If this isnt clear then we'll explain it again.

My first question to Munjoth is why to this date has no one except for the tarmaleh experienced shaking etc. I don't want to hear 'bhai sahibs' explanation for it, I want to know why have other great gursikhs who have written about their journeys not experienced it? Or infact why have most people not even heard of it? Why does it only go on in the tarmala cult? ^^ bhai ajit singh doesn't explain anything own his own accord, all the akath katha is started by guru nanak dev ji and now gur ghadi is given to guru granth sahib ji and Gurbani we learn this akath katha, i won't be refering to other sikhs, nor bhai ajit singh as they are not the ones who started this akath katha. Everything here will be quoted with gurbani - no other source is required as our guru is the teacher who will help us meet god.

Also if you challenge them to go and ask a real abiyassi gursikh about the what they are experiencing etc to see if its right, they simply say I don't need to because all our jugtis are from Guru Granth Sahib Jee. ^^You posed the challange kh@ls@ ji, as I only have 3 close veers that I started walking on this path with we all attend the swindon sangat and do abhyaas together, maybe you can give me some direction to this mahapurkh you were refering to or the gursikhs. As a mahapurkh is here to help the world and help take us out the bhav sagar yes? Gurbani says: poocho santo mera thakur kassa, ask those saintly beings how vaheguru is, ask them how do we meet this vaheguru. again gurbani says:"Kahaiy Nanak suno Santo katheo kath khanee." p-918 so guru ji has put the duty on those sants but now we ask guru ji where is a sant suppose to take us? and gurbani guru tells us: "Anhad banee poonji. Santan hath rakhee koonji." p-893 Please kh@ls@ ji I am a seeker of this anhad banee and guru ji has told me that his servants have the key to this wealth and they can guide me to it. We will discuss 'shabad surat da mehal' later on, as this katha vichaar is long, all of this vichaar is available in sukhmani sahib. Okay so lets discuss this: 2) Rejection of gusikhs who believe they are ready to take amrit and give their head to the guru. ^^Gurbani guru tells us what guru ji asks from the seeker who wants this amrit, in anand sahib we read: DHUN MUN DHAN SAAB SOPAN GUR KO HUKAM MANYA PAEYA, guru ji says i want your dhan (body) mun (mind) and dhan - wealth, now what wealth is the guru talking about he is asking for our precious jewels, our swaas. Lets discuss how we obey his hukum, if the guru has asked for your body you will use it as he commands, if he tells you to do sewa you will do it as he commands, your mind, if the guru says i want you to not even have one thought today, you are to stay in the nijghar then for that period of time you wont even spend one breathe in this maya but stay in your true home saving each and every breathe, and every breathe you save in return we get naam. Now if we ask our selves do we follow the hukum like this? Most of us have to say our mind doesnt even stop running for a second, how can we know when our guru is giving us hukum we dont even hear the gurus voice, we have never been to nijghar our true home so how can we save these precious jewels and exchange them for naam. This is why first the punj say go and do abhyaas get to sant paad, as per gurbani this is sant paad: "Teh geet Naad akharay sanga. Oohan Bhagat karay Har ranga." p-739 so we can start to save these swaas, then the punj will give us the gift of amrit and the duty of the punj is as follows: So Gur Karo Jo Saach Dhrirh Akath Kathai Shabad Milai, give you darshan of saach, give you all the akath gyaan and attach you to the shabad. This is the event that took place at moga. So taking amrit is no joking matter if you don't meet the requirements as above how can you be given amrit, also how can we question the guru, punj and satguru (guru granth sahib ji) as requirements are clearly laid out the shaking and lying down will be covered in the next post, please give me time as i confirm that what i am writing is in line with gurmat and i havent made a mistake as i am not 100% with explaining how we pass each element.

kh@ls@ ji could you please post the name of the mahapurkh that you spoke to in india as well as the gursikhs you would like me to contact. Before i had seen it as a waste of swaas but maybe contacting these gurmukhs in india we can see what aspect of this parchaar is durmat as we dont want to argue but spread guru granth sahib jis akath katha vichaar through out.

This is correct the way they do simran is from a hindu text,technique im not sure its a type of mantar that is what I was told by a respected elder,one Sikh who you may have seen at Southall Gurdwara got up and questioned this so called Bhai Saab infront of Sangat ,but no one backed him and his bezthi was done in front of the diwan,since then he was put to shame by all of swindon gangs followers,as of now he is no longer amritdhari and has drifted away from Sikhism,those of you who visit Singh Sabha Southall may have seen him doing seva there - big bloke 6 foot ,now hes shaved his head and given up due to tanuts from swindon bhai saab gang. ^^ SaRpAnCh ji could you please narrate to me when this event took place, what was actually asked as I regularly attend diwans at swindon and at the havlok gurdwara and to my own knowledge this has never occured, could you describe time/dates as well as what was asked. We want to walk with the gurus mat, if something here that has been stated did not happen this will go down as nindya, which in turn will cause us sajaa by vaheguru as we have read this.

talikhaak, veer ji it is not his fault. This happens because people hear about a person doing parchaar and automatically assume its some type of dera,cult,baba kind of thing. That is why we should not follow any human as they won't give you naam only the satguru can: bin naami mukt naa pavai koei bin satgur ko naam naa pai. As for sant, there are two types in gurbani - kaal di sant and akaal di sant, gurbani says that the sants of kaal will only be after money they will never understand this akath katha but only be out for themselves: sant anaari maya naal looji The duty of a real sant is they are here to help us get across this bhav sagar and if they dont help people cross the bhavsagar they will get a very grave saja (punishment). These sants that wear white chola have even fooled the 5 demons, the 5 demons have captured every joon but they were fooled by the white clothing as they believed them to be holymen but kaal told the 5 demons to check if these holymen had the pravana (Naam) and when they did it turned out that they to where choor (thieves) living in this body without naam: bin naama saab choor.

Sorry i forgot to reply on the amrit sanchaar and the sants doing the siphai course, lets discuss this abit. Those sants are now practicing to be siphais, this will eventually include the following: they would basically get duties from vaheguru and then have to leave his/her body and go where ever vaheguru puts them to do that duty, this can be anywhere in this universe. The purpose for the khanda bhati da amrit is because amrit is food for the mind and as they are leaving there astool (physical) bodies they need food for the sukhum (unseen) body when they are out doing duties and this is amrit that is given by the punj

Another practical example of gurbani: manmat varo naam raas peevo - let go of your own mat and drink this raas. Food for thought something has to give how can roughly 300 people all from different places round the uk be drinking this raas, because if you take the gurus mat he will give you his gifts. As we spoke in the other thread just talking about what my family have gained: Amrit raas, anhad shabad HOW did we gain these gifts? Took the gurus mat - done shabad abhyaas - and started gaining these gifts. The akath katha is openly available on www.simran.info - 2 jugtis are available there: swaas swaas and swaas giraas but not rom rom. If you take the time to listen to this akath katha we can then discuss what is being preached, i feel that maybe we are jumping to conclusions before actually listening our selves.

khalsa ji you keep refering to gursikhs, sant, mahapurkhs and other great abhyaasis and books, gurbani says: trigun saaba dhaat hai par par kari vichaar mukt kavi naah hovei naah paen mauk dwaar - you can read all the books you want in this trigun but you wont ever get mukt, you have to take the gurus mat not a mans. Everything the sangat achieves is practical before there eyes, as stated before how can the sangat be drinking amrit because bhai saab said so? The same amrit the punj give, exactly 100% taste on the inside. Gurbani talks about amrit raas all the way through. Again veer ji, you can ask bhai ajit singh anything you wish. You are right that i dont want to be phoning india because it is a waste of swaas, i don't have any doubts as guru granth sahib ji is the only assurance i need. Yes there is a university being made in india moga that will be 5 years - the person would go there for 5 years to do abhyaas and practically walk this path.

ewa Singh Tarmala ppls were here in cali few days ago and believe me whatever recently they were doing is very weird.. Why they say only do NAAM Simran while being nitnemi is not important. They said in public that their technique of doing naam simran will help human to get darshan of guru jee and will reach the level of dasam duar within few months if not weeks.. I am not scholar but hearing this from them makes me very uneasy.. especially the story of one mexican american who had guru sahib jees' darshan just because he did naam simran for two days.. Very weird.. ^^ hunji, gurbani is important im not sure why you were told that. Gurbani guru tells us how this body was made, this whole universe how we came here why we are here and how we get back to saach. When satguru is dyaal he can give you his darshan, we can only be humble and jaap his naam and he is the one who will give us the gifts. He has casued a lot of controvery st Southall gurdwara with his weird naam simran like wa he gur ru ru ru they say and they claim a guy called 'bhai saab' as all his followers call him gives amrit ras??? Whats that mean and oh yeah they go in car loads to do something in swindon ^^ Yes, bhai ajit singh has held diwans at southall havlok gurdwara, the jugti is called swaas giraas simran as per anand sahib bani: har jeeo goofa andar rakhi vaaja paun vijah nau dwaari pargar keeia dasma gupt rikia. I think you are misinformed he doesnt give us amrit raas? We do gurmanter abhyaas and drink amrit through the shabad, if you like you can try it and see it for your self - the amrit that the majority of us drink tastes identical to khanda bhati da amrit. I heard in Southall, confirm Sarpanch pls, that when he was down there 1200 ppl wanted to take amrit but he interviewed each and everyone and said only 80 were capable. He then says to become Sant Sipahee you have to do a course in Moga for a year and in a five year course you can become Bramgiyanee. Personally I was thinking if I go for ten years Ill be a double Bramgiyanee ^^ yes this is 100% true the punj pyara tested the people wanting in the amrit they had to be at sant paad, and the punj had to give them the follow: So gur karo jo saach dhrir akath kathai shabad milai - which means darshan of saach, all the akath katha gyan and attach them to the shabad. This is correct the way they do simran is from a hindu text,technique im not sure its a type of mantar that is what I was told by a respected elder,one Sikh who you may have seen at Southall Gurdwara got up and questioned this so called Bhai Saab infront of Sangat ,but no one backed him and his bezthi was done in front of the diwan,since then he was put to shame by all of swindon gangs followers,as of now he is no longer amritdhari and has drifted away from Sikhism,those of you who visit Singh Sabha Southall may have seen him doing seva there - big bloke 6 foot ,now hes shaved his head and given up due to tanuts from swindon bhai saab gang. I will get back to you on exactly which hindu way they do simran as I have forgotten the name ,it is also true about how he sets standards,and says that people who do not do the Swindon Style Sikhi are not allowed in certain parts of the Gurdwara ^^ I think you are misinformed veer ji, firstly the jaap is of vaheguru, and is done in swaas giraas form.

vaheguru ji ka khalsa vaheguru ji ki fateh, yes this topic has been going on in the gupt section, ive replied to each and every query raised by khalsa ji but we will carry the discussion on here.

Just because he came to your house doesn't mean that you should start supporting him blindly. Having spent some time (one or two hours) doesn't mean that you can tell what character they belong too. hunji you are 100% right, gurbani says doing ustaat or nindya of some1 is equal so both will give us sajaa (punishment): ustaat ninda dhuoa naa paali. I think people are a tad confused here, this isn't a cult, a dera, or a baba kind of thing. I will outline what the gurdwara stand for as per gurbani: satgur satsangat chitsaal hai jit thai har gun sikha. The sangat is a school where you are taught the 'guns' of vaheguru. Gurbani again tells us who earns the status of the saadh sangat: satsangat kaasi junai jitah eko naam vikania. That is the satsangat where there is vichaar of one naam, then we ask gurbani guru what is this vichaar of naam and guru ji tells us: akath katha har naam hai. This akath katha is also given the status of Naam as per gurbani. Then we ask gurbani guru how can we get laha of this akath katha and gurbani guru tells us: akather hovo milo meri bhai doobda door karo liv lai. gurbani is saying to his learners to meet together, let go of your 'doobda' - which is hate, anger, gossip and walk on the liv path - which is also in gurbani called sant marg as per gurbani: sant ka marg dharm ki pauri ko vaad bhaagi bhaya. What happens when we listen to this akath katha by those who have passed this bhav sagar, jap ji sahib states: nanak bhagata saada vigaas sunai dookh paap ka naas. by listening our pains/sorrows and sins are erased. bhai ajit singh states he is no sant, no sadhu, no bhagat, no brahamgyani, no gurmukh he comes under a 'koi' as per gurbani: koi aan milvai mera preetum pyara. We are the youth, the future generations who are suppose to help the world but if we havent passed this bhav saagar, gone to his desh and met vaheguru then what are we going to tell others?

hunji penji, all the akath katha by bhai sewa singh is in punjabi - I could get you the contact details of gurmukhs in canada who are english speaking sikhs, or if you hang on we can sort something for the youth that are unable to understand punjabi. Everyone and anyone deserves to know this path regardless of language restrictions.

If anyone is concerned about coming to swindon then a programme can be arranged at a gurdwara of your choice, you can openly ask in the sangat any question you wish but only on Naam and Gurbani, things like 'how did we come from saach, how was this trigun maya made, why are we here, how do we go back to saach(vaheguru)?' These are the sort of things that are taught at swindon, also veers and penjis can download the akath katha by bhai sewa singh from www.simran.info - this is the same akath katha done by bhai ajit singh IT IS COMMON SENSE WHEN YOU ENCOUNTER INFORMATION THAT IS NEW OR THAT YOU HAVENT HEARD BEFORE TO CHECK IT AGAINST ANOTHER SOURCE. YOU ARE BLINDLY FOLLOWING TAKING AJIT SINGHS WORDS AS GOSPEL TRUTH. HES THE ONE TELLING YOU ABOUT ALL THESE STAGES ETC, THINK ABOUT IT YOUR JUST GOING ON ONE MANS WORD. I DON'T KNOW HOW HE HAS SO MUCH CONTROL OVER HIS CHELEH THAT THEY BELIEVE EVERY SINGLE THING THAT COMES OUT OF HIS MOUTH. OH AND A VALID SOURCE COMPARISON DOESN'T INCLUDE HIS TEACHER SEVA SINGH TARMALA. JUST GIVE IT A GO DO SOME RESEARCH OF UR OWN BECAUSE EVERYTHING YOU HAVE POSTED HERE SO FAR HAS COME OUT OF AJIT SINGHS MOUTH. SO AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED HAS NO CREDIBILITY WHAT SO EVER. ^^ kh@ls@ ji, my source is Guru Granth Sahib ji, when you came to the programme everything that bhai ajit singh explained was backed up by gurbani. veer ji you should come down again, you were the singh with a white distaar and chola right?, if you felt intimidated you can talk to bhai ajit singh by yourself, if you like i'll give you his number and you can ring his home phone and speak to him personally. Ask as many questions as you like because everybody deserves to meet god.

It is common not to talk about how much simran you do. In fact every singh I know downplays how much they do. These are just some of the characteristics of a gursikh. Not everyone comes onto the internet like yourself and boasts about their 'high' avashta and looks down on others. ^^ I am not looking down on kh@lsa veer, i am merely explaining to him what he saw, im also explaining that i done the abhyaas according to the jugti provided by guru granth sahib ji and heres what i got, why dont you do it and see what happens. All panthic jathebandiya teach that naam is private ^^ Yes, that is fine. But our Guru teaches us otherwise, from pana 1 to 1430 naam is discussed openly. Guru is saying one thing yet we do another? maybe your baba should start teaching you a thing or two about nirmata and how to fight the panj chorr. If you had any kamai to begin with you would know that your ahkaar is stealing it. ^^ Everyone is entitled to there opinions, I dont mean to show myself as ahnkaary but as a person who is trying to spread what our gurus, bhagats, sikhs, gursikhs all had, this wealth of naam is available to all. If this akath katha is so vital for sikhs on the gurus path, why doesn't ajit singh do a tour of the uk and other places to teach the right way, ppl should be allowed to make their own decisions and take away what they need. ^^ _guest_ you are 100% right, bhai ajit singh has done parchaar at havlok road gurdwara, if you feel uncomfortable coming to swindon then we can arrange a diwan at havlok road gurdwara southall and everyone can come there. Also there is a website (www.simran.info) that contains all the akath katha and everyone is welcome to download the mp3s and listen to them, as for jugtis - they wont be found on the mp3s, only the first two are present (swaas swaas and swaas giraas) it would be pointless putting all the jugtis up as teaching a person a jugti of say going into sunn when they have alot of furnai and have only started doing abhyaas would not work for obvious reasons. kh@ls@ veer ji, I look up to no1 accept the gurshabad as did guru nanak dev ji: shabad guru surat dhun chela. as your the rest of your post, every1 is entitled to his or her opinion. hmmmm i thought we get NAAM and jugti from panj pyarey etc. But i checked out their site and bhai sahib is an amritdhari and since they do abhyaas on waheguru sabd i say it's fine. Even though the intention may not be, but some time these things slowly turn into some sort of cult. ^^ Lets discuss the duties of the punj and who can give naam. the duties of the punj: So gur karo jo saach dirai akath kathai shabad milai - this is the definition of what the guru should be able to do by guru nanak dev ji, they should give you darshan of saach, tell you all the akath katha and attach you to the shabad. The punj are given the title of guru. The satgurus duty is to give you naam as per gurbani: bin naami mukt naa pavi koi, bin satgur kau naam na pai, prabh assi bunt binehai. without the naam no one can become liberated and naam can only be given by the satguru. satguru title is given to siri guru granth sahib ji The practical example is when the punj pyari held an amrit sanchaar at moga this past vaisakhi, and those 3 things were given to those that passed the test. They are now doing siphai training for 1 year where the 88 that passed will take out there 'sukum akaar' and go and do duties to where ever vaheguru puts them. The amrit was only given to those that were at sant paad. As said before all jugtis are present within Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

All I'm gonna say is that anyone who thinks that this place is right for them and inline with gurmat then fine so be it. I said that I would go and look and give my opinion and I have the place in my opinion has a eerie strange cult like feeling. ^^ everyone is entitled to there opinions, i think you should of spoken to bhai ajit singh and he would of explained each and every point in detail - if you felt intimidated then you should of come to programmes held at havlok and spoken to bhai ajit singh there. So I can understand why the topic starter was upset with their family belonging to such a cult. ^^ Im not sure why you refer to the gurdwara as a cult, a cult would be a group or a jatha; Our guru teaches us there are no groups and we all belong to saach, you ur self was there when bhai ajit singh stated that our guru breaks us away from the caste system yet we jump right back into it. My suggestion to the topic starter is that they try to explain to their family that the strange things that go on at this place are not naam and certainly not within gurmat. ^^ I will ask the topic starter to come on this board and reply to this topic, you are saying this is not 'naam'; Do you yourself know what naam is as per guru granth sahibs teaching? You yourself had been stating that you do no naam abhyaas yet you are judging the sangat where every1 has been doing abhyaas for 2/3years. Also try to take them to panthic programmes instead. ^^ As stated before these programmes have been carried out at panthic gurdwaras in india by bhai sewa singh tarmala.

Why is it that Bhai Ajit Singh has a monopoly on all these methods ^^ He doesnt have a monopoly on all the jugtis, they are all daarj within guru granth sahib ji - If you want to khoj your self ofc your welcome to and find them your self. If you want to ask bhai ajit singh then he will tell you where in bani the jugti comes from and explain it to you, either way its up to you. The reason I am not explaining the jugtis is because, as stated before, i am still a learner, and doing the practical - where as bhai ajit singh has done the practical and is now explaining to others what jugtis our guru is teaching us to get out this bhav sagar. that cause this shaking, fits, crying on the floor? ^^ you've very cleverly manipulated my previous posts and stated something that i did not say. ive explained there not 'fits', the crying is viraag as the shabad surat is broken - when you are going back to vaheguru and some1 stops you, wouldnt you cry? and the floor bit, when you leave your sareer your going into sunn, so basically your sareer is 'sleep' or 'dead' and your mind is woken up, currently we are sleeping in the trigun but thru the gurus shabad our minds can be awoken. Why is it that no other Gurmukhs, Sants or Mahapurakhs from various Sampradas and Jathebandia such as Nanaksar, Nihang Singhs, Taksal, Akhand Kirtani Jatha talk about these types of stages? ^^ I don't know about that and Im also not sure what you mean about 'these types of stages.' But what i can tell you is that this akath katha has been done at historic gurdwaras in india and at the thakats by bhai sewa singh tarmala. this parachaar is also happening at other parts in the world. For what reason is it that it is only in Swindon that all these things go on whilst thousands of Gurmukhs worldwide have reached high states through Bhagti done with Sehaj rather than convulsing and shaking? ^^ You are presenting the swindon gurdwara as a cult or dera or something similar. This is not the case, this akath katha was done by our gurus, our prataan singhs, but until now had gone gupt and was started again by bhai sewa singh tarmala, he started this parchaar in india. As explained before the 'shaking' is just a jeev passing through the tats, as the singh who came down on sunday saw for himself only the gurmanter was being japped. But i have a question for you. your referring to other gurmukhs, how do you know that they are gurmukhs? Do you know who the guru calls a gurmukh? Do you know who bani calls a sant? A mahapurkh?

Sri Guru Naanak Dev Jee is Waheguru. They are free from ego. We're not. Thats why we should keep our abhiyaas and kamaee gupt. ^^ you are 100% guru nanak dev ji came with the satgurus title, and he spread this akath gyan everywhere, but he also put the duties of a sikh to a gurmukh to also spread this akath katha. I'm not sure about bhai rama singh, but gurbani guru and books are two different things. Within sikhi we only take the gurus math(thinking) not our own or another persons. But our guru is poora not adoora. To reply to your query, i can practically tell u that from my own town when we first went...there were only 3 of us and as we did our abhyaas and progressed, with the gurus kirpa, more and more and more ppl started goin with us, infact about 16+ ppl go from my town and they are all doin abhyaas now, my own grandad did sewa at the gurdwara for 40 years and his mind wasnt filled with peace, at first he was reclutent to go but when he did he himself said 'why didnt u take me b4' - why? Because he gained peace of mind, he progressed spiritually. If we kept it all to our selves then no1 would ever know and how on earth would others get this chance to do abhyaas and meet god. Why do we share our spiritual gains? To help inspire others to walk this path. Also, Gurbani tells us we should be doing simran 'aath pehar.' How is this possible if you are having a fit, or shaking uncontrollably. How do you go about your daily life? ^^ when ur doing simran during the day your doin it in 'sum drist' - your doing ur work with ur hands and simran with ur mind, there for your not doing simran with ik-drist where your seated and trying to go into sunn. As explained before the shaking is when one is passing the tats, there are jugtis to stop the shaking. there are 3 stages of simran jugtis: swaas swaas, swaas giraas, and rom rom. as you go further there are different jugtis, but as i am a learner and not a teacher i am unable to teach you the jugtis. I think the main concern here is the 'shaking' as many people dont understand but dont enquire as to why its happening, then come to there own conclusions rather then finding out from either the people who experience the anand or ask bhai ajit singh.

kh@ls@ ji, in bani our gurus, bhagats gurmukhs all told there stages - from your start to finish - how to get there - jugtis on how to meet god, logically if guru nanak dev ji didnt tell NO BODY, or even bhagat kabir for example then no1 would ever knw this path, and those ppl who want to meet god really badly wouldnt be able to. do u even knw where a mahapursh does his assan or do you judge by the chola, as a chola doesnt make a sant - status of the mind. Sounds to me like they don't know how to do swas swas simran properly, probably too fast and improper breathing, and are hyperventilating very heavily which is causing the fits. ^^ there were no 'fits' this is his take on what happened, he didnt even ask what was happening. and as explained b4 this is when a jeev is passing through the tats and are trying to smaah into the 5th taat which helps the mind progress. By the Gurdwara's name and the guest chatting about stages leading to the "Nij Ghar" and some "Anhad Sabd" i knew this was a cult like the Radha soami people. Only their Baba knows this secret LOL this is why they talk about these stages. ^^ firstly there is no 'baba' here, nij ghar is our true home as explained by bani and anhad shabad...anyone and everyone is able to obtain this through abhyaas, as explained above. the lying down ...when u let go of ur body and goto the 10sm dwaar your body goes into sunn therefore u fall back.