Raju

Well buddy anywhere in the world if you mess with the police, they will mess back. But today I am seeing that rent-a-mobs and political goons have totally overtaken this whole thing. As usual Indian political parties and politicians are the most cynically opportunist in the whole world.

Mr. Parkash Karat of the Communist Party of India (Marxist) who acts at the beck and call of his masters in China. This whole Gurgaon Honda incident has taken place only after Parkash Karat went to China when he was 'invited' to China by the Chinese Communist Party. Obviously this idea to target Japanese investment in India was a plan that was hatched in China and is being carried out by the Chinese agents in India viz the CPI(M)

Nanosecond, right now you can very well consider me a police agent. I am on the side of the police on this one. You seem to be having tunnel vision and are mentioneing only one side of the story. If the protestors were as peaceful earlier like they behaved at the secretariat, then I would totally on the side of the protestors. Fact is the so-called protestors did not restrain the Goonda elements sponsored by certain political parties from violating the human rights of policemen. Whatever they got back is not way different from what they had served.

Did any of you see the 'jobless and poor' workers beating up the police, burning police vehicles, burning DM's vehicle etc ? Hell they even leave the DSP of police who went to negotiate with them and beat him up so badly that now he is hospital. What do you expect police to do, hug these people out of love and affection ??? If this had happened anywhere in United States then the police would have used what they call 'ultimate force'. Already the communists and other enemies of India are jumping all over the place talking of equal treatment, they have not yet mentioned a single word about the so-called protestors beating up the police and burning public property.

This is why the guy ran. Shooting victim had expired visa http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4713753.stm

Sorry sir, but only 'time' will tell if my 'bubble' has burst or not. I think Manmohan Singh ji is the best thing to happen to India. He has a very soft, kind hearted and gentlemanly exterior, but weilds a big stick behind and his love for India is fierce. He is also a man of principles and I don't think God will fail such a nice man. The prince with white turban is Laden and his tribe of Islamists and Manmohan Singh will defeat the evil forces. And as far as Tytler is concerned it is not the fault of Manmohan Singh ji that a criminal like that is still a minister. It is a problem of selective application of law due to political pressure. But if there is a God above he will meet his just fate.

As far as kashmir resolution is concerned, if you read the resolution carefully it says that pakistan should withdraw from pakistan occupied kashmir and northern areas first and then Indians will withdraw later after the elections/referendum is held. Pakistan has not agreed to withdraw till today so the resolution is still born. The UN resolution is different from what pakistani propaganda machine would have you believe.

Mehtab Singh ji there is value in what G-Unit says. The Hindu kings were dayalu and the muslims were backstabbers. Prithviraj Chauhan defeated Ghauri 7 times yet forgave him each time. Prithviraj was a gentleman and Ghauri was a scoundrel who killed Prithviraj the first time he could defeat him. This was the true nature of the situation then. Only if you showed trust in muslim could they backstab you and claim victories.

I don't understand why people are against muslim in India ?? There are only a few rotten apple amongst Indian muslim and because of them the whole community need not be criticized. I can tell you a story, when the terrorists from pakistan recently wanted to attack the Ayodhya Temple, they toured in places like Delhi, Akbarpur, Muzzafarnagar and so many places in India but not one Indian muslim turned up to help them. Ofcourse the terrorsts tried to take example of Islam and ummah etc saying we all muslims are brothers and all, but not one Indian muslim could they recruit to harm their hindu brothers. And this is inspite of numerous BJP/RSS sponsored hindu cruelty against muslims in India.

Randip Singh ji who is asking you to believe the left-leaning, terrorist-loving media ?? You have just created a strawman and beaten it down yourself. Nobody here is claiming anything of the sort. The main question is whether the policemen were in 'PLAINCLOTHES' or not ?? WERE THE POLICEMEN READILY IDENTIFIABLE IN PLAINCLOTHES ?? How could the poor guy really know that they were policemen and not some racist skinhead types ??

That they were not in uniform. Can you make out a policeman when he is not in uniform ?? And don't believe everything that the police PR says. Who know for sure if they just said 'STOP' or they had indeed said 'STOP ARMED POLICE' ??

I see here that a lot of people are underestimating Manmohan Singh ji. In the Bible it is written very clearly that 'THE MEEK SHALL INHERIT THE EARTH". I do not see any greater example of humility around than Shri Manmohan Singh. Also if anyone has gone through the quatrains of Nostradamus where he has mentioned his prophecies, he has clearly mentioned about the emergence of a great leader in the East who shall wear a blue turban and shall deliver a 'great nation from subjection' and unite the world against oppression. He could probably be referring to Manmohan Singh IMO. Also he talks about a 'White turban' prince from Arabia who could well be Osama. But anyhow here are the quatrains: IX.73_The king enters Foix wearing a blue turban, he will reign for less than a revolution of Saturn [29.5 yrs]; the king with the white turban, his heart banished to Byzantium, Sun, Mars, and Mercury near Aquarius [February 1994]. III.60_Throughout Asia there will be great proscription, also in Mysia, Lycia and Pamphylia [NW, SW, and S Turkey]. Blood will flow because of the absolution of a young dark man, filled with evil doing. II.28_The penultimate of the prophet's name [? ?] will take Monday for his day of rest. He will wander far in his frenzy delivering a great nation from subjection.

Yes you are right, the british just threw flowers and roses at whomever they saw and they flooded the land with milk and honey. How can the british do any harm, all harm is done by the cunning and devious brahmin/bahman/beimaan etc. Hundreds of thousands died in the bengal famine due to callous and racist british policies and they pulled millions below the poverty line and forced people to pay them even if they were starving. It doesn't matter anymore, because how can you compare the lives of lowly third world Indians with the far far superior british.

DDS, if you notice the hindu psyche carefully, they seem to be having an inferiorty complex regarding lots of issues. Frankly I did not notice there was such an undercurrent of inferiority comlex myself until the BJP came into power and they got votes on what I believed to be utter stupid issues. Only then I started to think about this deepers and came to realize that it is after a long time and now with prosperity touching there shores they (hindu) feel that they can truly inherit their place on earth after centuries of torment and subjugation especially in Northern India. As a Hindu person was asking me on another forum, "During middle ages was there a Single functioning Hindu temple complex in North India of the likes which was found in South India" ?? Almost all were destroyed or plundered constantly by the Islamists/Mughals etc. Thus today the hindu is very possessive of what they have. Think of it I really can't blame them. The second point you raised about double standards is very profound. Yes there are plenty of double standards in India and in GoI. For eg on one hand it treats minorities with kidgloves and has appeasement of western style in many respects, but on the other hand with one stroke with an incident like Blue Star or 84 riots and Gujrat riots it looses all credibility gained after decades of work. It seems to me that there is no middle path, and there is no balanced path. It is somewhat like the attitude of Indians who either raise a person to demi-God status or crucify thme at the nearest pedestal. This seems to be a cultural problem or some psychological problem.

DDS, I dunno if you can see the big picture here ? We all desire that we get a country where we are the majority community or the only community. I am a christian, I wish that I had a region in India where only my community lived and I could live there as I wished, I could run stark nekkid on the streets and there would not be anyone that would be too bothered about it. I do have strong objections when the BJP/RSS combine until recently used to mention Christians in India as 'Hindu Christians' and other stupid names. I took umbrage when a BJP/RSS hoodlum called Dara Singh burned dead Graham Staines and his two young children alive 'WHILE THEY WERE SLEEPING' in their jeep etc. In short I have lots of complaints with lots of people in India. But when I open the bible it is written that these are the 'end times' before the world will change forever but before that we have to face lots of calamities and dangers. I also know that if God wanted me to just survive in a single community society then I would have been born in some country like China or Norway/Sweden etc. But God has created different flowers in his garden, so that we can try to live all together inspite of differences. So if God wanted a single flower garden then he could just have created a bigger China on earth and all people would look almost same and talk the same language and there would be no tension on earth. But that is not how he wished, because God wanted all of us to become more mature by living in a multicultural society wherein we would become more mature human beings by learning to live with others and learning to live through mistakes and trial and tribulations. I hope you appreciate what I am trying to say.

No community is any other community's 'brother'. We have all come in this world alone and go away alone. the only thing that we can demand from another person or community is 'RESPECT'. Nothing more and nothing less. I might well be crucified for saying this on the forum but even with my rudimentary knowledge of history I can recollect General Dyer who was the murderer of Jallianwala Bagh killed 20,000 people in one evening. The British committed countless atrocities on the Sikhs yet many on this forum are shamelessly sitting in UK. how should one decipher that ?? General Dyer was a protestant Christian...so how come today Christians are your brothers and you are sitting in their countries ?? I agree that Hindus have a lot of useless characteristics but majority are extremely peace loving, vegetarian etc, if one has to create enemies of such a community then [start dripping saracsm]I really admire the capabilities of people who have managed such a feat[/end dripping sarcasm]. Muslims likewise committed countless atrocities on the sikhs but there is nary a voice against them on this fourm. Are they a 'brother community' ?? The only problem seems to be with the Hindoos. Again sorry for being blunt, I expect forgiveness in advance if I stepped on anyone's toes or left behind hurt feelings.

Actually, there is no need for pronouncing 'pagal' verdict on this. I can explain: Imagine yourself walking out of your home in one of London's less polished areas and you notice a couple of youngish guys walking up to you with attitude, in plain clothes, and probably short-hair... You think <admin-profanity filter activated>? Could be skins attempting payback for 7/7. Damn, I could be a Paki to them... Plus all those duds this morning. FUUUCCCCK. Just my luck. You quicken pace. They do too. Soon enough one or all demand that you stop. You are accelerating into panic cause you don't want the living <admin-profanity filter activated> kicked out of you - you know that there is small likelihood of retribution for such an act by the law. They start jogging to catch up, you panic and hit the road flying... You see a tube station, and say to yourself, lots of people there and maybe I can get into a train in safety. But they chase you into the station. You look back to see how far they are, they are close, you trip and you have five bullets in your head. Can't bring myself to blame the security dudes involved. They could not afford to take chances. They guy resembled someone they were on the lookout for, seemed all wrong with his clothes, etc. When they asked him to stop, he ran. Went into the subway. Wires sticking out. JEEESUS, he's going to take a few with him.... They jump him despite the risk to themselves, and put five in. Adrenalin rush. Job well done. But now, I bet the guy who did it wants to take his own life. I would. Tragedy of first order. Let's leave it at that.

Sirjee I saw this only after I posted. You can be the judge, I rest my case.

Sirjee I am well aware of the 80s. I was around 15 yrs old in 84 and I can remember everything clearly. I was born in Delhi and had a neighbour of mine who was a Sikh family and lived in the next block of apartments. I remember very well that I used to play 'kanche' (marbles) with their daughter and other friends. Now my family belongs to the syrian catholic christian community and we are clearly a minority in India but we used to have excellent relations with all our neighbours including the Singhs next door and we all used to constantly have dinners at each other's house. There was also a plush Gurudwara near our house and my mother apparently had gone to meet a friend nearby and when she was gone there were reports of 'tyre-burning' and looting etc nearby. I was also concerned for the safety of my mother since the Gurdwara was next door to the friends house she was visiting and was on the way. She came back safe but reported horrifying tales of people burning up Sikhs from the Gurudwara with tires and dousing them with kerosene etc. I don't know where these anti-social elements suddenly turned up from with their murderous agenda. Needless to say, it left me scarred. A certain innocence that one feels about ones country was also lost on that very day. I was never afraid of anyone till that day, but since that day I was afraid of people who lived and walked in my midst. The first seeds of doubt also were planted in my mind as to whether the people who live with me are really human because they did not turn up to help a fellow human being. Now coming back to that day, since my mother was holed up in her friends house my father got concerned and went to fetch her and on the way back near the gate of our house a small mob of the same murderers above had collected because they were informed that there was a Sikh family next door and were asking my father as to if there was indeed any sikh family nearby. One of them started pointing out in the direction of my neighbours and shouted that he was sure there were sikhs there but my father stood his ground and insisted that there were no sikhs in the neighbourhood. One of them said that my father was hand-in-glove with them and moved ahead to attack him, but after he refused to back his ground they finally moved on. I don't know where these people came from but someone said that they were professional butchers and were hired by congress goons and given a free license to roam about. But anyhow after that incident things were never the same, the society was fractured and crippled. nobody invited each other to dinners anymore. Although out of gratitude our neighbours did get us halwa from the Gurudwara the day after. Everyone seemed to have gone into a shell and after a while the Singhs moved to England and that was the end of the story. But the innocence was lost forever if you know what I mean. Everyone's conscience has been scarred by the incident that happened then whether they happened to be perpetrators, onlookers or w/e and the only equivalent to that was the Gujrat riot when the BJP tried to prove that they could not be left far behind. When Gujrat happened I was in Canada and had difficulty grasping the gravity of the situation but I could only come to know later about the reality when I came back to India and read all the material about it, it was horrifying. As for situation in punjab in the 80s, I can only say there were lots of rumor floating around everywhere and esp in the villages where people mixed up mirch masala and passed on the rumors and thus started taking a life of its own. While I am not aware of the peculiar role political parties in punjab, mrs Gandhi seemed to have totally got things wrong since she felt that she could subvert the law of the land for her political needs. But one thing can be sure that 'taali dono haath se bajti hain' and in punjab all parties were equally responsible in creating a volatile situation unlike in Delhi where the murderous show was one sided. That was then btw, today I am a very liberal minded person but you can be sure of one thing, that if such a thing were to happen today I would take up whatever comes to my hand and chop off the heads of these miserable murderers myself whether they come from India or our devious neighbour pakistan on whom not all blame can be apportioned but most certainly a considerable portion of it should be credited in their name. There is no point in sitting around and expecting the police and army to do everything for you, take the law in your own hands is the best way in certain cases.

Are you saying that no hindus were killed in punjab during the 80s ?? And those 'transistor bombs' that were bursting all over the place were just Indian agents working overtime to malign the Sikhs ?

It is a complex subject that can't be dismissed outright. When practising astrologers are not capable, then astrology is actually a joke. Most of the stuff that comes published in newspapers is amateurish stuff and should rarely be taken seriously. The real practitioners of these age-old arts are fast dwindling and only a very few real ones remain. But if they say something, one should not easily dismiss them. Traditional people say that all the psychic arts should be practised by only those people who hae psychic powers and can cannect to the supernatural. But how do common people distinguish between a person with such capabilities and people with none. That is where all the frauds come in.

X-Post from Saint Soldier thread. you might not be aware but there are some excellent examples of swordcraft in Indian culture that is fairly unknown outside. One example is the Urumi or Longsword almost 2m long that is used in the kalari system. Traditionally swords/sabres have been popular in India because of the speed and 'agility' factor. Some european swords are really bulky and do not offer those advantages. Many of the Japanese and Chinese (Shaolin) swords were only developed after Bodhi and other buddhist saints who took these very local weapons and introduced them in Shaolin & Japan etc.

you might not be aware but there are some excellent examples of swordcraft in Indian culture that is fairly unknown outside. One example is the Urumi or Longsword almost 2m long that is used in the kalari system. Traditionally swords/sabres have been popular in India because of the speed and 'agility' factor. Some european swords are really bulky and do not offer those advantages. Many of the Japanese and Chinese (Shaolin) swords were only developed after Bodhi and other buddhist saints who took these very local weapons and introduced them in Shaolin & Japan etc.