48 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

why are they all surrendering ?

1. who will be left protecting sangat and Gurudwarey?

2. One nihang has already come forward for the crime it is not like UK where no one can decide who killed the man so all go free of murder because of reasonable doubt this is India and BS justice

3. It emboldened more attacks

4. the younger nihangs will be decimated by this thought process and their knowledge will go with them instead of being used to train next generation

I think they had little option but to surrender given hardly anyone is coming out in solid support, all groups seem to be soft-peddling around. Without wanting to dimish their service, I  think the nihangs shouldn't have individualized the act, they should have let it be a mob act ( I believe they have a similar law like the one you mentioned for UK). It's a sad repeat of Jan.26th  aftermath when Deep Sidhu and Lakha were made scapegoats. These kisan leaders are true to their commrade roots and never stand with the panth when it matters.

On 10/15/2021 at 7:27 AM, GurjantGnostic said:

As @Ranjeet01 was saying my ancestors were Dharmi. We are known to have a very resilient oral culture but at the same time we have been so devestated that we have nothing left to draw from but that. So only our spirit remains committed to Dharam Yudh and we cling to that as our only culture. 

Many ethnic punjabi Sikhs feel stifled by being born a Sikh in this Kalyug. Because of the fog of forgetting they don't know how hard they had to work to be born a Sikh. 

My mind is capable of devouring any manmat in no time. It has taken a lifetime of of doing my wretched best, the fool, to get even an entry..an audience...with this SadhSangat. One can learn all the knowledge of this world in little time, one can study Gurmat an entire lifetime and not find the end to it's magnificence.

My mind is not capable of absorbing Gurmat at the rate it eats and discards manmat. 

What I'm trying to get at really, is if you are born Sikh, work hard in that direction. You paid so much to get here. You're sitting on the greatest treasure in creation. The Rehit isn't to stifle your joy. It's the key to the universe. We need to reinvest ourselves in Purtan Gursikhi and go all in. 

Very humbling observation brother. I appreciate your perspective. 

1 minute ago, GurjantGnostic said:

Amen to that bro. I bet 19 people just noped right out of that put up job. 

No kidding bro. Any future potential jobers are going to instictly rub their wrists in the future.

The BJP and indian media are spinning this to be a dalit hate crime....completely ridiculous. The fauja are by and large made up of Mazabi Singhs (Dalits). The fauja don't live in fear of the corrupt law, they answer to a higher authority. They own very little and don't have the same economic considerations when taking these kinds of actions. Another thing, that lakbir mentioned there were a total of 20 of them hired to instigate and cause beadbi, im sure the remaining 19 won't want to carry through now. This beadbi trend is out of control simply beacause we have a huge tolerance level. Why this beadbi doesn't happen at hindu mandirs or at mosques, i wonder? Each time a culprit is caught, he/she happens to have "mental illness". I wonder why. I bet the beadbi inccidents are about to come down now.

3 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

Don't be despondent like that. We've had much worse periods in our history and still came through them.

Like I said before, we need a significant cultural shift on multiple dimensions. Ain't worth giving up until we've tried this to the utmost of our ability.

It's time we grow out of the simplistic, rural simpleton identity and stop promoting it like it is something good. It's not going to cut it in the 21st century.

I've met desis who are completely disillusioned with 'Sikhs' back home. They've said to me that if any significant change is coming to Sikhs, it won't be coming from Panjabi ones but from outside i.e. diaspora Sikhs.    

Keep your head up. The last thing we need is hopelessness. 

I think you’ve zeroed in on the bullseye there. If you look at all of our current anxieties and problems, the root is stagnation of effort and inability to constantly adapt and recalibrate our strategies.

We keep trying to do the same thing and expect same outcome while those at the forefront of power have moved miles ahead.

Same type of parchar methods aimed at uneducated rural folks. Non utilization of Gurdwara institution for village level learning. Why are sikh parents in punjab aspiring to send their kids to convent or DAV schools when the Gurdwara should be the center of learning?

You see the same in agriculture. People keep planting the same devastating crops, which the markets don’t even want due to excess production, and howl and complain when the inevitable happens. Then we complain that Punjabi hindus control the cities. Well, they get educated and join the market driven economy and prosper, while our village kids pursue an entitled  fairy-tale lifestyle with devastating consequences. It’s a cold harsh truth, all the more evident when these same kids make it to the west and start pursing the exact thing they scoff at back home….hard work.

I’m often reminded of Dashmesh Pita’s hukam to the sangat for the best in weapons and horses. The best in literary pursuits, the best in war strategy. Guruji made efforts to make their founded cities as economic hubs by building simple structures for shopkeepers and even providing start-up capital for trades people. They had an excellent collections system to fund the fauj. A system pointing to long term prosperity and security, even if requiring immediate sacrifice.

We just need to stop falling behind now and wake up to where the world is, especially our people in Punjab. It’s all doable stuff. Like @dallysingh101 you've pointed out, we’ve made it through far worse periods. We should be at the forefront of weapons technology, economic models, social policy.

Plus, white dress makes them look darker, so they like the colors. 

French clergy sexually abused over 200,000 children since 1950, probe finds

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/france-clergy-abuse-1.6199877
 

Sexual abuse of children by the "religious" is more common than many would naively believe. Well intentioned people feel their own group is immune to this kind of stuff and end up putting themselves or their children in harms way. They end up worse than non-religious or semi-religious people and really struggle to make sense of faith, divinity, culture. I've seen the havoc it unleashes on decent people.

I'm very sure there are plenty of sukha singh types lurking around waiting their chance. I think it's a multitude of variables around these types including suppressed homosexuality, unfulfillment of sexual desire for those coming from celibate denominations, being away from the wife too long on their preaching tours?, unable to find a suitable spouse while being surrounded by fawning youngsters. 

We need to get over the shock aspect. This is man's dark nature in play. It happens, has happened, and will continue.  It would do us a world of good to actually read CP [after reaching age of maturity, lol] and come to terms with the dark side.

It will sound controversial, but I think our biological age for pairing, the late teen years, is the ideal time for getting married, or at least roka/engaged. The couple can live together, study, work, and eventually start a family by the time they reach their mid-twenties. Instead of fighting the tide, it’s better to surf it. Kids spend their prime sexual years engaging in wasted pleasures that still leave them at square one when they hit their late 20’s. All that time could have been spent maturing and satisfying their urges in a controlled and fruitful bondage. The older we get, the more difficult it is to pair up. Our expectations keep getting more refined and unreasonable, and past sexual adventures only screw up emotional pairing further.

The other benefit I see from early hitching is that family can re-enter this traditional space like the old days and find matches for their children. I think the western model of chance is bullc&@p. We had better success in the old ways. Now you have kids and families with increasing anxiety as the kids edge towards their 30’s with no end in sight. We’ve changed the starting line way too far up. 

9 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

Because discussing spirituality in the way that western Sikhs do (particularly on forums such as these where the contributors are anonymous) tends to come across as disingenuous attention seeking, or at least a discrete way of seeking praise and flattery for being "special."

One only has to peruse the Gupt section for the past 20 years on this site, lol, and see the many threads about "I had darshan of such-and-such. What does it mean?" The people who start these topics aren't looking for a genuine, down-to-earth explanation ("maybe it was your subconscious assembling a narrative like a dream?"), or one that doesn't aggrandize the OP. They want to be told, "You're the ONE! You're the next special super-being who'll be flying in the sky, saving Sikhi like Super-Singh or Neo from the Matrix!" This type of seeking intense validation is very offputting for those with at least a little bit of self-awareness and humility. Unfortunately, this behaviour seems to be, dare I say, uniquely Sikh. I would hazard a guess that this phenomena can be traced to the plethora of self-proclaimed sants and babeh that sprung up in the last century.

Anyone - more so the most intensely spiritual people - tend not to display their spiritual wares for the world to see. They quietly get on with it. Some even conceal their actual spirituality by putting up a facade of "duniyadaari" because the old-school (very, very old-school) spiritual masters would advise their students to retain a firm grip on their egos regardless of actual spiritual ability. Sadly, this type of person has faded from the modern world amongst the general sangat. I'd go as far to say that even the so-called great spiritual Sikhs (with international public profiles) of today lack this essential ingredient of foresight and self-awareness.

The pragmatic and balanced lifestyle that encompassed a spiritual grounding coupled with razor sharp wits to engage with your actual social environment is what I’ve come to see as the ideal Sikh from studying the lives of Guru Sahibaan and early Sikh lives. Guru Sahibaan never left spirituality in the abstract domain. It was practiced in a practical manner through all of life's tribulations (more so than many of us will ever encounter). We seem to have skewed our focus by failing to contextualize outlier historical occurrences and this has led to all sorts of dead-end efforts where we feel like things just haven’t worked out in spite of following the xyz of this or that parcharik/baba. 
A whole business has spawned to cater to this offering of an unbalanced, dependant, fear-induced, a-historical, and frankly weak version of the Sikh as opposed to the fear-less, independent, visionary, spiritually fulfilled Sikh built over two centuries by Guru Sahibaan. 
 

2 hours ago, scali said:

This was a conversation between Baba Nand Singh ji and Kavi one of their sanghis.

Just thought I would translate some of the highlighted parts from these snapshots.

-Sikhi is diminishing and very few practicing sikhs will remain in the future

-There will come a time when over four new ideologies will emerge on a daily basis. Sikhs will jump from one ideology to the next. Be it Bhasauria, Radha-Soami, Kuka, Communist (as examples).

-People will be easily lured away from their religion

-Master Tara Singh is misleading the Sikhs, just like Gandhi. Also, we don’t call him Mahatama as he has no such quality. The people that are blindly following Gandhi and hoping for indepednece will lament one day and feel the British Raj was comparatively better.

-These Topi waley will not let you [sikhs] cause any commotion (meaning they will suppress you)

-Naam is becoming rare. Hold on to it for your survival. It will flourish one day in the future

-Don’t align with any political party

-With time, a great man will come who will, with his shakti (power) make these [Indian rulers] bow down. After this a long-lasting rule will start [of the Sikhs]. Gurmukhi letters will be supreme. The counting of 13 will commence [ I believe this refers to a benevolent social structure]. The Parkarma at Harmandir Sahib will be expanded 2 or 3 times its; current width [ hinting at a surge in new Sikhs]. Even the lighting lamp posts will be adorned in gold.

there are quite a few gramatical errors, not sure if this is just the rough draft? Sounds very bland and simplistic, tbh.

Promotion of promiscuity, inter-religious marriage of a minority group’s women is an ideal way of obliterating their demographic growth and leading to eventual assimilation. Bollywood loves to show sikh women with turbaned fathers and brothers falling in love with hindu men through daily soaps and films. There was an outcry from the left-media in India when that Kashmiri sikh girl was rescued from her pedo muslim neighbour who had been eyeing/grooming he since she was 14 !

What this Simrin Kaur has sung is not exactly the smoothest way of confronting this social danger, but nonetheless, it’s her own blunt and best effort and needs to be supported for the right reasons. I don’t like most of the music bhangra movies from Punjab, it all looks sounds garbage to my senses, but the issue is important enough that we should have intelligent arguments in place. There are hordes brainwashed apnay apania [including in punjab] who have jumped on this liberal wagon and are blindly  headed for the cliffs. These people need a serious jolt of intelligent confrontation to knock some sense back in.

12 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

Watch out because some gundhay machoday in our own community would jump on the 'services' being offered. The media can easily manipulate this, or grooming gangs themselves can 'compromise' important secretly perverted apnay by filming them, and them manipulating them to cover their tracks. 

Do you think that was the case for that Amir Dhaliwal fella above? It's almost like he was just distracting with the sikhi saroop, perhaps as part of a plan with his fellow perverts.

The Pakistanis in Canada are not the same composition as UK. As far as I know, the UK has a large percentage, if not majority, being mirpuris, whereas here in Canada it's mostly punjabi pakis. Also, Calgary has a large ahmadyyia muslim population, which is a more docile and integrated group. The pakistanis in Canada also appear to have come from a more educated class (based on my own personal and business interactions) as compared to the UK. 

Definitely need to keep our collective guard up with them, no doubt. This predatory behavior has a basis in their religious doctrine and culture; the right circumstances brings it out. We need to maintain our reputation and drill it down that our girls are off-limits.