Prem

Whatever we believe on these issues we should all agree that murdering innocent people, placing bombs and the such like, is wrong. Not only is it wrong, it is evil. We should all accept and face up to the truth that those who carry out such acts are not working in the interests of Sikhs. We should also accept that random violence against innocents is the way of Al Qaeda type people and not Sikhs - and we should not descend to the level of such people.

Khalsa Girl 1 Pehnji - what is there top ask forgiveness for? And why do you think I dislike your thoughts? I disagree with you on this point, that is it, end of story, but we are still brother and sister - and so please dont feel that your ideas are not valuable because they are. You probably dont agree with everything I believe but we are still brother and sister. love and blessings

SSM I think part of the problem with Islam today in this country with the rise of fundamentalism and suicide bombing is because of this arrogance and intolerance - if they believe that the world should be converted to Islam anybody or anything that stands in their way is an enemy and then you get a growth of people who are constantly bitter and angry. If they were to change their attitude and become more humble and realise that Islam is just one religion out of many and is no better or worse than any - and that all religions are equally valid, then they will find their minds resting in peace and will find it easier to live beside all the infidels in England without worrying too much. Just my opinion.

Khalsa Girl 1 I spelt your name wrong in the last reply. Forgive me.

Khalda Girl 1 I'm not sure I believe it pehnji. I think we should just put our faith in Guruji and not worry about being saved or guided by a reincarnated Sant Jarnail Singhji. Everything is there in Guruji.

Islam I respect - but I cannot respect the assumption that I have to be converted in order to be 'saved' - I find this particular ideology to be primitive and intolerant and I will say so should a Muslim seek to arrogantly 'invite' me to Islam.

SSM You have much to say - God gave you insight and the desire to express yourself - so dont shorten what you say - as though there is something wrong with speaking at length - I for one am interested in and read all your posts. Express yourself - only when we express ourselves can we be free.

Khalsa Girl1 What form has Sant Jarnail Singhji Bhinderanwale taken?

Anjaan You see, I really admire what you are doing and I wish strong educated women like you will take up this struggle and fight hard to protect vulnerable women from abuse. That Sikh lady Jasvinder Snaghera is really admirable - the most shameful thing is how some people view her. You can watch this 13 minute news reportshe did when she went back to India - she talks about her struggle and also in the newspaper article how her 22 year old sister commited suicide by pouring petrol over herself and lighting the match because she was so miserable in her arranged marriage. Anyway, you see, it is my impression too that forced marriages rarely happen amongst Sikhs these days - although the news programe in the link above suggests otherwise. But what you said about the thing that happened in court with the interpret is shocking and evil - what some men put their women through. You know what it is? British girls educated here with a mind o ftheir own and intelligence of their own get married to some backward man from Punjab who cannot handle her having her own mind and create misery. I think that domestic violence is the most terrible thing and when I hear that it is so hushed up amongst Sikhs it makes me angry. Yeah you are right - dont you think that Sikh girls can help in this by being confident and engaging them - people like yourself who can work on their behalf? What role can the Gurdwara play in helping them with their rights to be protected against violence? .Best of luck - we need people like you to go out there and be ACTIVISTS - it is definitely seva. You have my admiration and best wishes. ------------------------- SSM Because men are weak and can stoop down to become so crude and brutal and their egos are small - especially with the feudal Punjabi mentality - when they think things should be as they were in the pind or they are raised in this country to believe that they are the Lord and Master - when they cannot reconcile themselves with the modern world, when they feel threatened because women have independent thoughts and minds, they use their fists because they arepetty tyrants and are not capable of accepting a woman as equal - especially in this culture of izzat we have. Yeah but what can I really do as a man? All I can do is (a) Give money to charities like womens refuges (b) In my daily life talk about this with as many men as I know - ultimately it is the family that can stop this - if a man beats his wife and everybody in the family and friends tells him that if he does this he is not a man he is a wicked cruel tyrant preying on weak and vulnerable women, and make him and outcaste and show him anger and so he knows that this is looked down on nothing will happen. When the family covers it up for izzat or whatever the woman suffers. We have to change mentalities and mindsets. We can start by marrying people in this country to other British Sikhs - stop importing men from Punjab as much as we can. If I was rich I would fund these organisations - that would be all I could do - but it is up to people like you and Anjaan to make the difference - you are the ones that can make the change and actually do something - you know your rights and you should not stand for this in our community - or any other community either. You live in England and nobody can stop you from working to oppose this - there are no panchayats to terrorise girls now - stand up for your rights and dont let bastards get away with these crimes.

SSM Dont be so humble - you spoke with knowledge and understanding - I just wish that Sikh women would stand up and rage against this otherwise it will carry on and more people will suffer because of this backwardness and this feudal mentality. Sometimes I think as Sikhs we focus on some things of narrow concern when we could be out there changing things - if ever something needed changing it is the attitude towards women amongst Punjabi people in Britain. Sikh women should set up welfare shelters and refuges to protect women who are facing domestic violence and being beaten up by their husbands or are facing pressure to get a forced marriage - this would be SEWA - protecting the weak and vulnerable.

SSM thank you for taking the time to write such a long and clever post.

If it is true that people were cutting themselves at camp it is very very worrying - we do not want this to be the kind of things that Sikhs are doing and we certainly do not want disturbed people like this harming themselves and also possibly harming the name of Sikhi if they start doing this in public.

Bikramjit Singh Tariq Modood is not only wrong with the thing about Sikhs and Hindus being selfish for rejecting the Asian identity - he also has no sense of history. All this started 16 years ago when the Satanic Affairs thing kicked off - since then Muslims have been selfish and putting their religion first before their shared identity with other Asians - this has been going on for ages - they are the ones that rejected us - this is just a delayed reaction from Sikhs and other religious groups among the Asians after Muslims made it clear that they prefer their Arab brothers to their Indian brothers - that they reject Unity with Sikhs and Hindus and put their religion first. Do you not agree?

K_51NGH Its not just gianis who harass our sisters - I am talking about Sikhs in wider society - why should we as British Sikhs accept the pressure that comes from families to force girls into marriage? We are always quick to criticise Pakistani Muslims in this country for their backwardness, but what are we doing to counter the same bad things in our community? And what do people think about whether this kind of thing is dying out amongst the Sikh community? What are your personal impressions?

Getting rid of sexual desire is impossible and leads to unhappiness and repression. We have to channel sexual desire into a healthy and loving relationship - which is why Sikhi says we should marry and love our partner. The point is not to let lust rule you and distract you from acting a good life. It means not being promiscuous. It means knowing the value of sexual love as an expression of love for our life partners. Sikhi is a pragmatic religion - it has never demanded chastity as other religions have. Denial of the sexual impulse can lead to misery, neurosis, psychological damage, and ultimately can lead to repression which can burst out later in life - look at the scandals that hit the Catholic Church. Guruji knew all this - it is why he says to get married and have a good relationship with your husband or wife. Sikhs are not to live outside the world - they are to live in society as full human beings and sexuality is a part of our human life. We must control and channel it - but we must not seek to destroy it.

The reason why I ask this question is because I see so much righteous energy and eagerness on this message board - and I think it would be great if it was to be channelled into combatting bad practices within our community here in the UK.

How prevalent are forced marriages amongst Sikhs in Britain today? We probably think that it is mostly a problem for Muslims in Britain but I know it still happens amongst us. Jasvinder Sanghera is a Sikh woman from Derby who escaped from a forced marriage and runs a refuge in Derby - you can hear her shocking life story here. She has been acting as an advisor to the government who have plans to outlaw forced marriage which have been published today. My question is - is it dying out amongst Sikhs or is it still the same or is it rising? What are your personal impressions? Secondly, what can we do as young British Sikhs to help stamp out this crime - if we can mobilise the Respect for Guru Granth Sahib campaign with direct action - why can we not carry out direct action to protect our sisters who are being victimised and forced into marriage or Sikh sisters who are being battered by their husbands? I particularly address this question to the Kaurs on this website - can you imagine the power you have to positively change the lives of Sikh girls who find themselves in this situation? Also, shouldnt Sikh organisations here, freed from the caste-feudal-pindu culture of our parents and grandparents, positively campaign against this practice - and should not young British Kaurs help in domestic violence and forced marriage refuges? We complain when we are cussed by the mainstream society for being backwards - we should not let them taint Sikhi by association with these backward practices. Can you imagine the power of a progressive Sikh youth organisation that campaigned against this kind of thing in the name of Sikhi? What do you all think? I particularly want to hear from the Kaur's. Prem

A couple of years ago there were clashes between Jat Sikhs and Dalits in Jalandhar - to claim that Sikhs are immune to this evil is to not face the truth - and Sikhi is all about facing the truth - I dont know what the point is of cursing Brahmins and Hindus and India for this apartheid system when Sikhs practice it in their hearts themselves - lets be honest and tackle it inside us.