Mahakaal96

Nothing I have said has come from my own manmat... everything I have said has been based on & referenced against historical references & sources. Translations of Gurbani have been backed up by arths given in Shabad Kosh. Then there's you.... who has provided no references or sources and all your translations of Gurbani are from your own manmat & twisted to suit you nowhere have I said I hate women... my Guru instructed us to protect women, respect women & to honour them. Just because you want equality, something that God didn't create as he deliberately created men & women to fulfil specific roles. Anyone who doesn't go along with your false views on equality automatically becomes a woman hater?! Guru Sahib decided to take 10 human forms... each time as a man Every bhagat whose bani mahraj included in SGGS is a man 5 pyare of Mahraj were all men Mahraj used gender specific words like nar & naar/naari in Gurbani Does that mean Mahraj was a chauvinist as well?

Your lack of knowledge coupled with your desire to preach is truly alarming.

Read the full arths given for 'nar'... it doesn't just apply to human men. Manuka means of human kind/ human jaati put the 2 together & the message is directed at men of human kind

Please stop talking rubbish... the pangti Chatanga posted definitely IS gender exclusive... Mahraj has used the word 'naar' which means female as opposed to 'nar'which means male. I've added translations from shabad kosh for you Just because your husband ain't a real man don't try & force your manmat on the rest of us & more importantly stop trying to twist bani And you are correct when you say women are exempt from an awful lot... every warning & threat of being sent to hell in SGGS only applies to men... not women!

Where in that pangti does it mention 'women'??! nar & manuka both apply to males, arths according to shabad kosh are attached

I'm done wasting my time on here. for anyone who wishes to research the topic for themselves the references provided here would be a good start. Akaal

Show me any Hukamnama or rehitnama by Mahraj, and there's many, where any of the Gurus used a pen name as opposed to their actual name

More BS Nowhere have I said 'SIKHI' is only for males but when it comes to the 'KHALSA'.... the 'ARMY' then yes I do believe that mahraj created an ARMY of men.... not a social club where you bring your wives, sisters, children along

So your argument is that Mata Sahib Deva would use a pen name when signing a Hukamnama for the panth... during a time when the panth was in turmoil because mahraj used a pen name when writing gurbani....... And I'm the stupid one?? Show me any Hukamnama or rehitnama by Mahraj, and there's many, where any of the Gurus used a pen name as opposed to their actual name

Another fabricator of lies... makes up stuff from posts that has not even been said or remotely implied... has been caught out doing this on other threads. Your the 1 who ran off like a coward... you asked for evidential proof... which was supplied but failed to produce even one in return.... still waiting for everything you said you would post! Please provide evidence from Bhai jeevan Singh or anything that is pre 1900. Hazur Sahib & Budha Dal DO adhere to Bhai Chaupa Singh rehitname by not giving women Khande Di Pahul... the rehitnama explicitly Say 'Khande Di Pahul', commonly known today as 'amrit' is not to be given to women. Anyone who wants to research Hazur Sahib maryada & the reason behind Kirpan amrit should read 'Sri Hazur Sahib Maryada Parbodh'. Various references, originals of Mata Sahib Deva hukamname & all claims have been referenced for anyone who can be bothered to research for themselves... or on the other hand you have this wannabe who thinks he knows gurmat inside out who has provided reference to 1 piece of work but provided no original evidence or even a translation of that work. Fool writes essay long posts that have almost zero relevance most of the time whilst fabricating stuff out of thin air

Let me simplify this for you.... Sant Jarnail Singh & Sant Gurbachan Singh would propergate that women be given amrit because this became the norm post 1900's onwards barring Hazur Sahib & Budha Dal. This was most likely a safeguarding measure taken by the panth in response to people like naamdharis starting to give amrit to women. To safeguard the panth from losing sangat.. mainly females to these man made cults the panth took the step to give women amrit. The point of contention is... did mahraj in 1699 give khande Di Pahul to women... there seems to be quite a lot of evidence that suggests mahraj didn't. Theres also a lot of compelling evidence that suggests giving women amrit was a safeguarding measure taken by the panth some time around 1900

I've provided you with the names of the sources; Bhai Chaupa Singh Rehitnama 1700... originals available at Hazur Sahib & possibly Panjab University... Panjabi version also available online. Mata Sahib Deva rehitnama already provided. Sant Gurbachan Singh katha aviavlbe online. Naamdhari books from 1800's where they claim they were first to give women amrit also available online. happy researching... let us know how it goes! last post from me

WOW... you literally have no shame do you??! Nowhere did I mention suicide & Sant Ji certainly didn't say a woman should recite Sukhmani Sahib then commit suicide so she can be re-born as a man. You should really have some standards and not try to distort so shamelessly. I refuse to engage with such bare face liers & fabricators of complete rubbish... this coupled with the <banned word filter activated> above who said the Jathedar of Hazur Sahib is a chumche to Badal.... Badal... the CM of Panjab... who has no jurisdiction over Nanded... the disgraceful level of deceit, lies & low level intellect on this forum gives an indication of why our panth is screwed.

How about you provide some evidence that pre-dates 1900 that proves women were given amrit & given the name Kaur?! Searching for Sant Gurbachan Singhs Ji Katha on Sukhmani Sahib is not difficult... even the most simple of simpletons can do it. What you want is for me to give you a link & provide exact minute & seconds that Sant Ji says that... well I could do that but I won't... too many people these days want instant gratification of the research, hardwork & dedication of others. I've told you where the source is... guess you'll just have to listen to the WHOLE katha... but your a gursikh so that shouldn't be too much bother Mahraj using a pen name poetically whilst writing Gurbani is completely different to signing a Hukamnama that is binding on the whole panth!

I think your mistaken... all the chumche are in Panjab... not Nanded. Sant Gurbachan Singh Bhindranwale... the treasure chest of knowledge & the jewel amongst scholars says in Sri Sukhmani Sahib Katha that if a woman recites Sukhmani Sahib with the desire to be reborn as a male then her wish will be fulfilled... wonder why Sant Ji said that??! Originals of Bhai Chaupa Singh rehitnama are available at Hazur Sahib & also Panjab University have a copy I believe. Someone chooses to follow maryada of Hazur Sahib/Budha Dal & adhere to rehitname written by people of the stature of Bhai Chaupa Singh automatically become woman haters... lol.... what's next... I'm RSS?? There's also written proof where naamdharis claim to be the first to give women khanda da amrit... these articles are from around 1850. Its not a matter of what I WANT to beilieve but rather a case of wanting to believe in that which Mahraj gave us as maryada & not man made maryada that was created whilst our country was under the control of foreigners. What I do have is pictures of handwritten rehitname by Mata Sahib Deva Ji... IF mata had taken amrit then why didn't she use Kaur in her name instead of Devi??!

It's funny that places such as Hazur Sahib & Buddha Dal.. who don't give women Khande Di Pahul & call Mata Ji 'Mata Sahib Deva' & don't believe she took amrit & became a Kaur are the most ardent & devoted followers of Dasam Pitas Granth & to this day have Prakash of Dasam Granth... No mahapurekh from Hazur Sahib (where the jathedar has daily darshan of Dasam pita) or Buddha Dal has given women Khanda da amrit ever.. let alone the last 100 years

I'm not forgetting anything... your spreading complete lies... please provide names of these women who took khande Di pahul in 1699 & also provide reference to the spy who wrote in his book that women took amrit that day. Bhai Chaupa Singh (Shaheed) was the the nephew of Shaheed Bhai mati das Ji (also a Brahmin)... so you can try to malign Bhai Sahibs rehitname as much as you like just because he was from a Brahmin background but it won't work here... and if you want to play that game then what is your background?? originals of Bhai Chaupa singhs jis rehitnama are available... there's a reason puratan unadultered places like Hazur Sahib & Buddha Dal don't give women Khanda da amrit. You keep on about Akal Takhat maryada but please tell me the last time a woman was even allowed to perform kirtan inside Harimandir Sahib?

GURU NEVER CREATED KAURS... the whole thing about giving women amrit & calling them KAURS only started post 1900 in response to naamdharis who first started giving amrit to women around 1850... there's written historical proof about this... talk to any old mahapurekhs from Taksal or from Nihangs or any Sants & in private they will admit this is true. Theres handwritten hukamname of Mata Sahib Deva Ji where Mata has not used the word Kaur with her name but used 'Devi' instead. The oldest & very first rehitname that was prepared by Bhai Chaupa Singh Ji in 1700 on the command of Dasam Pita himself in atleast 2 places clearly says women are not to be given khanda Di pahul. Do some research & you will find that the word 'Kaur' actually means PRINCE & not PRINCESS... mahankosh even says so!!! Guru Sahib afforded women respect... there's no doubting that... but equality is a modern day invention started around 1900s.... how can there be equality when the divine will of God deliberately made the two genders distinct & ordained each to fulfill certain roles?! Anyone who keeps barking on about Akal Takhat maryada can keep barking... the bottom line is that maryada is man made & despite what you may think at the end of the day the Akal Takhat is completely corrupted & has been for almost 100 years.

This whole topic is a joke. All you feminist bandari's and their chumche supporters please explain the following; Why were all 10 Gurus men? In some instances such as 8th Guru & 10th Guru the gurgaddi was passed to a male child but still no women? Why are all the Bhagats with bani in SGGS men? Why were all the Panj Pyare men? Why has every major religion in the world always started by a man? Anyone who thinks they are going to walk into our panth & change our traditions is having a laugh... you nindaks of the Gurus maryada are going to end up in one place & one place only... you know where it is. Old Rehitname clearly say women are not to be given Khande bata Di pahul. There's no written historical evidence that any women were give Khande Di pahul in 1699. feminist bandaris and their chumche men... here's an idea... take your views, opinions & changes you want to Hazur Sahib or Budha Dal.... will be good to see how many minutes it's takes before a A WOMAN from there gives you a slap in the face before kicking you out onto your backside. Listen to Sant Gurbachan Singh Bhindranwales katha of Sukhmani Sahib. Sant Ji clearly says any woman who reads Sukhmani Sahib with the desire to be reborn as a man her desire will be fulfilled. Just because Guru Sahib afforded women 'respect' that doesn't mean they are completely equal... how can they be when men & women were created to be different?? And all you chumche, pathetic excuse for men... mahraj told us to respect women, protect women & to honour them... we wasn't told to place women on our heads & give them the same tasks men have been assigned to do.

Yes, that's how it is, the whole cosmos is designed perfectly. Akal Purekh created Brahma & gave him the ability to create within what Akal Purekh had already created (maya) Akal Purekh created Vishnu & gave him the duty to preserve what Brahma creates within that which is already created & preserved by him Akal Purekh created Shiva & gave him the duty to destroy what Brahma created & what Vishnu has been preserving. As you can see they all have different roles, attributes & duties that they have been assigned... but what is the one thing that makes them all equal?... it's the fact that Akal Purekh created them all that makes them equal but not the same. Apply this to the whole of creation...including men & women

The Gurus gave sikh women equality in terms of respect... they were not given complete gender equality which blurs the lines of which role(s) & attributes each gender has been created to fulfill. Sikh women and men are equal too the point that both were created by Akal Purekh.... that's as far as it goes. The roles & duties for each are seperate & distinct.

Men are the sargun embodiment of Akal Purekh... women are the sargun embodiment of Adh Shakti... which is Akal Purekhs Shakti by which whole of sargun creation manifests itself. When the two come together (shiv-shakti) then creation expands. Adh Shakti has the ability to create but only on the hukam of Akal purekh. When Akal Purekh had a desire to became many from one he first manifested his Shakti (Adh Shakti). His desire to become many from one was manifest by Adh Shakti. A woman has the ability to create new life when she gives birth but can only do so when a man plants his seed (desire) inside her. The cosmic play of Akal Purek -Adh Shakti (Shiv-Shakti) has manifested in sargun form in the form of men & women. You have a lot to learn

Tell me why all 10 Gurus were men? tell me why all 15 Bhagats with gurbani in SGGS are all men? Tell me why all panj pyare were men? Most of the Gurus had more then 1 wife & in some cases had several wives... tell me how many wives had more then 1 husband? Tell me why all the the founders of all the major religions of the world were men? The truth is, men & women are equal in that they were both created by God but that's where the equality stops. They were created by God but created to fulfil different roles & duties....

10 gurus all men 15 bhagats with bani in SGGS all men 5 pyare all men Femenist & their supporters get over it & accept it instead of trying to alter sikhi to suit your own manmat ideas. Those asking for 'proof' from Guru Granth Sahib Ji that women can't be in punj pyare, can you give me proof from Guru Granth Sahib Ji that supports Kirpan, kanga, kara, kachera & kes maryada?? Khalsa maryada comes from Dasam Granth, Sarbloh Granth & rehitname Idiots ain't got a clue what the Khalsa is... the Khalsa is an ARMY.. not a social club.

Yawn..... still just hot air & childish remarks but still no ACTUAL facts or evidence....