jkvlondon

I know the family tree , but the problem is there are some thing there in the written rehitnama which we know that go against Khalsa Rehit (if we are just talking men) when you have amrit you break the bonds to previous belief systems such as caste system and recognise all as one jaat , humanity so why does he do this in the rehitnama: "7.. Doctrine. A second reason for rejecting the extant text as the unadulterated work of Chaupa Singh is presumably the presence of attitudes and injunctions which conflict with twentieth-century orthodoxy. A prominent example is provided by the following item. Any Gursikh who is a Brahman should receive twice the service and consideration that other Sikhs receive. He who renders such service shall earn a double reward. 38 The rahit-nama's attitude towards Muslims is similarly unacceptable to orthodox ideals. A Gursikh should never touch a Muslim woman. He should never become friendly with a Muslim, nor should he trust his word. Never drink water from the hands of a Muslim and do not sleep in the company of Muslims. Never trust the oalh of a Muslim ... 39 The notion that Guru Gobind Singh could have sanctioned privilege for Brahmans or the contemptuous ostracising of all Muslims is unthinkable. No work inspired by the Guru could possibly include such instructions. If the rahit-nama is truly the work of the Guru's servant Chaupa Singh then these injunctions and others like them must surely be later interpolations. conflict with later orthodoxy is also implied in some notable omissions. These include the text's failure to mention the panj kakke (the five K's)40 and the absence of a distinctive marriage ritual." l actually he was great grand nephew as they were grand uncles to Kesar Singh his father under treatment of women he has put " (li) A Gursikh should never trust a woman, neither his own nor another's. Never entrust a secret to them. Regard them as the embodiment of deceit. [100]" This is a very Brahmin attitude to women not the Guru's so you have to be intelligent and weigh it up against Gurbani and Gur Karni .. under the section on caste : " 3. Caste133 (i) Personal relationships amongst Sikhs should be based on the belief that there is only one caste (gotra) and only one lineage for those who are followers of the one true Guru. [79]" then immediately contradicts: " (ii) Sikhs should, however, observe the distinctive customs of their various castes, and they should marry according to the traditional prescriptions of caste and lineage. This they should do in order that no stigma may attach to their narne. 134 [II, 121] (iii) Sikh marriages should be performed by Brahmans. [120] (iv) Brahman Sikhs should receive double the deference and attention normally bestowed on a Sikh. Any Sikh who imparts the teachings of the Guru should be similarly honoured. [24] At meals, however, Brahmans should not be seated in front of others. All should be required to sit in the same line and Brahmans should not necessanly be served flrst.[499]" then you have seperate satsangs for men and women mentioned later etc too many to-ings and fro-ings , We know that women were admitted into Guru ji's darbar e.g. Rani visiting Guru Amar Das ji so what's going on ? Has these Rehitnama been messed with at a later time ? Chaupa SIngh was Shaheed in 1723. it is strange to see under marriage that a Singh can only marry the daughter of a mona if she has CHARAN DA PAHUL and yet we are told by Guru Sahib himself from 1699 charan di pahul will be replaced by Khande da pahul . A daughter of a sikh can be married to a Mona if he promises to take intiation : "(v) A. Gursikh should not marry his daughter to a mona unless he agrees to accept initiation. ThlS lS performed with sweetened water which has been used to wash a Granth Sahib lectern (manji). Five stanzas of Japji and five of Anand Sahib should be recited. The couple should then drink the water. If the bridegroom has previously worn a sacred thread he may .continue to do so during the wedding ceremony, but he should subsequently remove 11. [16, 21)" so confusing ...as this initiation is not even equal to sikh initiation , charan pahul

I could find not the bit proscribing Khande di amrit but I certainly saw something else , a Gursikh bibi cannot recite gurshabad by taking vaak in satsang.... I know that Chaupa SIngh was a Brahmin and somewhere else in the same rehitnama he tells gursikhs that they should respect Brahmin singhs more than others and that women should consider their worldly husband as pati parmeswar (not a sikh belief) . They are some questionable ideas especially even if we compare against rehit of Guru Nanak Dev ji and subsequent Guru Sahiban . Sword is written in english but where is the original ? because a Khanda is a sword as well as a kirpan. Explain to me how kirpan di amrit is not sufficient in itself for male children (at least ) and yet is for women who have to cook for their men who are not supposed to eat from non-amritdhari , does this mean they only ever ate langar prepared by men?

err who are you to decide who is worthy of sikhi ? Parchaar is what all Guru Sahiban did and encouraged their sikhs to do especially the bibian , the fact that someone has done the hard work of inspiring our youth and those who have a language barrier and joint knowledge barrier should be encouraged and admired . The primary audience was our own who had been failed by their families so what if others who have been left cold by the world seek Guru ji's words of solace and find knowledge there ? Are you going to stand and tell them no ? People who are donating are doing through their own choice , you don't have to give if you don't want these are the same people who donate to SAS and Khalsa Aid and Ecosikhs and plenty of other groups . Punjabis have been using Ajit SIngh , Fateh Singh, Bahadur Singh etc forever... there is no paabandi besides he renamed after taking gurvaak and presented the name for jaikaara of approval by sangat. What would you prefer that people stay with Christian names when their allegiance is with Guru? Sikhi is on the rise , did you believe that all the sikhs would be just punjabis because the panj piarey were not just punjabi , early sikhs were afghans, assamese, sindhi, gujrati, Sri Lankan all sorts and their skin would have been just as diverse as now . Don't be scared of change Those who are being brought to sikhi is through Waheguru ji's hukham ...accept it

sukh try reading history and understand that giving codes for weapons foods, people etc is part of our tactics as was guerilla warfare whilst we were outnumbered . That might be considered subterfuge and the deceit is only in using the withholding information: actual mission , routes numbers and whatever but that is standard in warfare any time period . Unless you think we should send a statement of intent with our full strategy to the enemy. for example 1 tyaar bar tyaar sikh was referred to as sava lakh fauj , was it a deceit maybe but also a little gallows humour. Beseiged and starving and yet eating Mitte Parshadey i.e. stale roti anyone overhearing from the opposing camp would be disheartening that the sikhs were doing mauja

meaning not expecting the others will fight in a chivalrous manner so up the game to deal with that. A main problem has been the enemy being informed well in advance by ghadars or plain loose tongues ...what with all that lalkar mentality . Need to fight smart and in a adaptable way , i.e. multiple skills , methods latest tools .and not buy from the usual suspect as they will sell us out just like that to gain confidence of India.(lull them)

two problems: diaspora sikhs especially older gen, have a crystallised idea of punjab in their heads all rosy specs and all so find it impossible to accept that Punjab has turned into the mercenary mess it is. younger gen , are just ignorant of history , politics etc of anywhere least of all Punjab they only know it through songs and bhangra and media soundbites , so they just don't care for old school values and cannot work out how their behaviour can be upsetting for their folks . a similar case happened last year when the FIL again killed the DIL who was sikh .again with a hammer . guess it is old school punjabiyat macho seeing it as a right to beat down dissention in the form of independent thought. It's horrible.

Ok you may be just making new names for yourself and presenting silly things and personal attacks because your logic is awry ..Waheguru knows I frankly do not care what you believe because it's arguments presented like yours and this : " Its extremism because Guru's didnt say women should wear dastaar or not cut kesh. Dashmesh pitta created kaur for Sikh women to be princesses to beautify themselves and not created singhni's (lionesses) " which makes me sad for the panth because it is foolishness such as this that drags people down . Why are you so blind that you cannot see strong rehitvaan females will bring up and encourage strong rehitvaan kids or maybe like Jathedar Gurmukh SIngh Musafir you want put back sikhi's progress too and want chanchal mat dollies who don't look after anything but preen themselves to make themselves objects for you to ogle.

extract from DDT amrit sanskar maryada about suitability of Panj : The Panj Pyare and the Granthi Singh are to all wear the same colour clothes and these should be from the following colours, saffron, blue or white. Their Kirpans are to be worn over their clothes, a Kamar-Kasa (waistband) is to be tied and a parna (scarf like cloth) is to be placed around their neck before entering the Darbar. Their Gatra’s are not to be of leather. The Pehradaar is to be a highly disciplined Sikh. The five Singh’s are to humbly bow to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee and stand up, the sixth Singh is to do the same and stand holding his hands together. The Jathedar is to hold a large Sri Sahib in his right hand and do the Chaur Sahib Seva with his left. He is to question the sixth Singh – "Are you a highly disciplined Sikh? Do you keep the discipline of the 5 Kakkaars? Have you committed any of the four cardinal sins? Do you recite the specified daily Nitnem prayers? If the Singh is married, he is to be asked if his spouse is living in accordance with the Rehat Maryada. The Singh is to face the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee and reply humbly that with the Guru Jee’s blessing I am living according to the Rehat Maryada. I have not committed any cardinal sin and do recite the daily Nitnem prayers. I am physically complete, fit and healthy. He should say that he is forever erroneous due to the entrapments of the mind (showing his humility). If he is married, then he should say that his wife is also a highly disciplined Sikh and lives by the Rehat Maryada. The Jathedar is to question all the six Singh’s individually, moving from his right to his left. After the questioning is over – if all are suitable, one Singh becomes the Granthi Singh and the rest join the Jathedar in becoming Panj Pyare. if a bibi has no true amrit i.e. just gurti/kirpan da amrit then she is being held at lower rehit so then that would create problems for SInghs too because they cannot truthfully say she is amritdhari because the amrit should would have been subjected to only has the two first banian and six pauri of anand sahib maximum . It is clear from discussions that amrit can only be made by the panj which doesn't happen with kirpan-di -amrit that is just one singh , also gurti/kirpan-di-amrit is not considered sufficient for a child to be fully initiated into the panth so how can a woman be by this method ?

patta nahin maybe someone will pipe up and say the Brahmin thing that she has to serve her pati parmeshwar to earn the right to be reborn as a Singh ... I've heard similar before . For those doubting use of Kaur for singhnees other than royals remember this : Bibi Harsharan Kaur: The Final Shaheed of the Battle of Chamkaur In the battle of Chamkaur, Guru Gobind Singh jee and 40 starving Singhs battle the Mughal army. The battle which took place in Chamkaur's mud fort lasted 72 hours and saw the loss of many Mughal soldiers and also 36 of Guru Gobind Singh jee's companions along with the two Sahibzadas. Fighting an army of hundreds of thousands, Guru Gobind Singh jee gave an exhibition of his battle skills. Guru jee, following the orders of the Panth Khalsa (in the form of the Punj Pyaaray) left the fort along with Bhai Daya Singh, Bhai Maan Singh and one other Singh, after giving his clothes to Bhai Sangat Singh jee to wear. Only Bhai Sangat Singh and Bhai Sant Singh fought the battle to its end. They too were martyred. Seeing Guru jee's clothes on Bhai Sangat Singh, the Mughals were ecstatic and taking him to be Guru Gobind Singh, cut off his head and took it to Delhi. In every village it was announced that Guru Gobind Singh had been killed, "Look here at his chopped off head! His family is also finished. His two sons were killed in the battle and the two younger ones will also die abandoned. The revolution has been crushed. No one should go to the Chamkaur Fort. No one should cremate the dead Singhs." A tight cordon was put around the Fort. As the soldiers were going from village to village making their announcement, the people were retreating in terror into their homes. However, in village Khroond, a daughter of Guru Gobind Singh, Bibi Harsharan Kaur, asked for her mother's permission to peform the final rites for the Shaheeds. Her old mother replied, "it is total darkness outside and soldiers are everywhere around the fort, how will you even go near?" Hearing this, Kalgeedhar's lioness daughter replied with resolve "I will avoid the soldiers and perform the cremation, and if need be, I'll fight and die." The mother gave her courage and hugged her daughter and then explained the maryada to follow for the cremation. After performing Ardaas, Bibi Harsharan Kaur left for the Chamkaur Fort. The battlefield which saw iron smashing against iron, the bellows of elephants, the trotting of hooves and calls of "Kill! Capture!", was now totally silent and enveloped in complete darkness. In such a situation, the 16 year old girl Bibi Harsharan Kaur avoided the guards and arrived at the Fort. She saw that bodies were lying everywhere and distinguishing between Sikh and Mughal was very difficult. She still had faith and began to find arms with kaRas and torsos with kachheras and heads with long kesh. As she found a body, she would wipe the face of every shaheed. Both Sahibzadas and about 30 The stories of one's ancestors make the children good children. They accept what is pleasing to the Will of the True Guru, and act accordingly. ( Guru Granth Sahib Ji - 951) www.tuhitu.blogspot.com 16 of 154 shaheeds were found and then she began to collect wood. Fearing the approaching light of dawn, Bibi Harsharan Kaur worked very quickly and soon prepared a pyre. She then lit the fire. Seeing the rising flames, the guards were shocked and advanced towards the pyre. Bibi Harsharan Kaur was seen in the light of the flames sitting beside the pyre. She was quietly reciting Keertan Sohilaa. The guards were shocked and confused as to how a lone woman could come into the fort on such a dark night. The guards asked in a loud voice, "Who are you?!" Bibi jee: I am the daughter of Guru Gobind Singh Officer: What are you doing here? Bibi Jee: I am cremating my martyred brothers. Officer: Don't you know about the order that coming here is a crime? Bibi Jee: I know it. Officer: Then why have you disobeyed that order? Bibi Jee: The orders of a false king do not stand before the orders of the Sachay Patshah (True King) Officer: Meaning? Bibi Jee: Meaning that I have respect for the Singhs in my heart and with the Guru's grace I have done my duty. I don't care about your King's orders. Hearing such stern answers from Bibi Harsharan Kaur, the infuriated Mughal soldiers attempted to capture her and attacked. Bibi jee grabbed her kirpaan and fought back with determination. After killing and maiming many soldiers, Bibi Harsharan Kaur was injured and fell to the ground. The soldiers picked Bibi Harsharan Kaur up and threw her into the pyre, burning her alive. The next day the cordon around the Fort was lifted because it was clear that the Sahibzadas and most of the Shaheed Singhs had been cremated. The ancestors of the Phulkiaan family, Rama and Triloka, then cremated whichever Singhs remained. The story of Bibi Harsharan Kaur reached Guru Gobind Singh jee Mahaaraaj in Talvandee Sabo (Damdama Sahib). Upon hearing of her daughter's martyrdom, the old mother thanked Akaal Purakh. She said, "my daughter has proven herself worthy." The story of the cremation of the Chamkaur Shaheeds will forever serve as a glowing star of inspiration for all Singhs and Singhnees.

you are aptly named because your theories deeply steeped in it. ALL sikhs have to keep their kesh this is rehit from Guru Nanak Dev ji's time which mayadhari log forget conveniently. you categorise women like they are objects , they are human beings and they have just as much love and desire to look like their father as guys so don't diminish them this way .

I read the actual people's accounts and yes it was settled out of court because the gurdwara agreed to install an external lift to the building and remove the boards .

bro you still didn't respond to itihass of Guru Gobind SIngh ji giving amrit to Mai Bhago ji after she was wandering around in enlightened state beparwah of bodily state... was this true or not ...did she become his Bodyguard (for that she would definitely have to be amritdhari and rehitvaan gursikh) Bhat vahis mentioned amritdhari women by name

so please explain to me why there is sakhi of Dasmesh pita ji giving Amrit to Mai Bhago and if sikh women never had amrit how did their names changed to Kaur and how did they remain equal in sikhi? This guy in the video has been excommunicated from panth for his views...

samm drist --- not based on maya level and true the only faith enshrining it

agreed Bhai sahib's words can be terse but they strike home in their directness , I have been downloading pdf s to read on my kindle ...would recommend this way of building up a personal sikh library to dip into , when a lull occurs in your day .

having a blinder of a week , sorry

people similar to the one in the thread about dastaars....

bro I meant true feminism is seeing all one in the one jot sense not any SJW stylee thing and I agree sikh feminism is to be above becoming objectified or objectifying others .

bro , since when have women in the west been equal? they are still fighting the two-faced nature of the misogyny around them in diverse fields . The current gen are detached from the reality of the struggle for most of the women on the planet and only consider themselves as valid benefit receivers instead of liberating ALL women with the help of the Men . Sikhi respects all women equally and all men equally this is the natural justice of Akal Purakh , they have equal free will , equal opportunities to use their time to which purpose they feel drawn to and they will pay for their mistakes equally too

sorry me no gaylord bacche and to be sikh is to be feminist else you're doing it wrong haanna, besides I'd agree especially those vecharian who watch bakwas tv shows either goray or desi which claim you aren't living unless you wear 300 pound shoes, drive a merc and buy a new designer suit every week . Sorry aint nobody got time for that... My mum always taught us to live inside our means or save up for big purchases (barring house) , hubby is similar ...hubby got grief when we went back to brasil bcos they all showed off their massive houses and cars then he found out the real deal , renting and maxxed out credit . And that is our stupid peoples mentality they got into the 1980s mode a decade later than the goray and never looked back , probably stuck in negative equity too now. It's very tempting but you'll only fall for it if you are immature (my time was 19-21) but thankfully the magic of having to earn to spend cured me

And Phoolka wins and goes to Gurdwara to do shukrana ...so much difference in quality ...

wow , amazing , what advice , forget your own jasba about your sikhi saroop , suppress yourself and your wishes just to fit in with non-religious narrow minded people who will never understand you and give them the false impression that you are like them, non-religious, who will then look for similar people to marry you to . be truthful , live and present yourself in the way you feel you want to be , don't worried about your marriage increasingly the guys are realising the values of a gursikh wife and looking for them . Only dinosaurs or punjabiyat preaching guys would want a doormat not a real partner.

Who do you think taught Mai Bhago Sword play ? her Father, brothers and Husband , who left her with the duty of protecting he homestead and family ? Her Husband so she was considered full of the gun required of a wife and a soldier by him and she did what her Guru ji taught her so was above reproach ...and yet you come again with nonsense ...you are a lost cause It is official BJ thinks Mata BHag Kaur was not a good wife ... <facepalm> I hope none of your family members ever hear this BS

make the system not reliant on a consumerist model , which i think vand ke shako is ... maybe if communities are made to be self-reliant then there would be more gainful employment for all and an alternative barter system service for goods could cover the needs of kirti poor people. I mean what did Band Bahadur Singh ji do - he destroyed the jamindar system so people were released from their ancestral karza . We need to build social housing for the destitute this will help building and carpentry trades and generate local economy.

They (merchatile/banker class) also are the first to sellout to invaders to keep their status quo , why spoil business eh? both are happy to not fight for their rights, community or country. Tarkans are different in terms of making their money from mainat i.e. the hard way and tend to be resistant to interference from others.