Manchester_Sikhi

South Park is cool. But answer me this question. If that was a Guru in that episode...would your reaction be any different. If so, then you are contradicting yourself by saying its OK for other religious figures but not out beloved Gurus (I'm not aiming this at anyone really, its more a thought provoking statement). I personally would feel offended by the portrayal of a Sikh Guru in this maner, no-matter how satirical the program is. Imagine if that wasn't the Virgin Mary bleeding but it was Guru Gobind Singh Jee that was bleeding Just because South Park and maybe other media programs portray religious figures in this light doesn't make it OK. I'm all for having a laugh and joke with South Park (it rocks after all), but I don't think just because they poke fun at all religions it makes it OK for them seeing as they are offending everyone in one go and no-one particular party is picked upon. I for one would NOT accept any media taking the P**S out of Sikhi related or any other religious figures/Gods or Prophets.

The admin removed the word...but check on the site...its the rear end basicallly...but if you read the full episode description from that site you will see it's...and forgive the crudeness....menstrual blood.

OK..have you ever seen south park....if you have then you'll understand their "type" of humour... Secondly....the use of religious figures in "dark/sick" comedy/cartons such as South Park I think is wrong....don't get me wrong...i actually like South Park....but if you have doubts then read this : "Knowing that he has a deadly disease that he can’t cure himself Randy starts drinking, hoping for a miracle to cure his disease. In a nearby town called Bailey there is a statue of the Virgin Mary at St. Peter’s church. The statute has started bleeding out of its <admin-profanity filter activated>. Randy is watching the local news coverage of the event and becomes interested when he believes the statue will help cure him of his disease." taken from: http://www.tv.com/south-park/bloody-mary/e...08/summary.html Now, can you honestly say that is acceptable...I doubt there are countless statues of the Virgin Mary around the world depicting with the statue bleeding from the rear. Now I'm not saying I'm going to jump up and start saying "Kill the producers of South Park". But you can take free speech to an extent...when you read the religious context..I think the media should stay well away. I'm just amazed now many Catholics around the world are standing up and registering the disgust at this.

So, here we have another example of the media/tv using religious figures as in their work: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/4735216.stm It's strange however, that there isn't the same sort of uproar as seen over the recent depiction of Prophet Mohammed in the press. I think Catholics, and to a large extent other religions, need to take some point from the Islamic point of view with regards to depiction of religious figures in the media. I'm not saying we should riot, but free speech goes to some extent...and to depict a bleeding Virgin Mary in South Park is a little OTT if you ask me. What do you guys think, and how would we react if it was a portrayl of one of our Gurus?

Thank you!

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh. Forgive my lack of knoweldge, but is there a paricular bani to recite before eating food.

U should change ur smilies these one then: or :lol: @ its less obvious and gives you more creedence when you flip!!! LOL

No offence...but please read what I wrote...I asked for views on matters like the football club..I would like to hear your views on similar matters...and pay particular attention to my question regarding where we start and end with regards to using such titles....I DID say I used the sports thing as an example only....and I did ask for views on the broader issue. And also...using the football example again.........what would you say if they drank and ate meat under the auspices of the Khalsa title...? What about a Sikh restaurant who used Khalsa in the title but served meat of all sorts (OK..the meat issue is a little unclear)? What about a pub with the title Khalsa (I'm sure I've seen one somewhere called Khalsa Junction)....the list can go on and on and on... What I'm getting at is how do you stop things like this? And when is would it be valid to stop things like that? You dont see many religions symbols on guitars/drums etc etc....but you see the khanda on dhols...Do you see my point... As I said before...forget the football thing...its an example of what I'm trying to say but its by no means centered on the football club. To koonergs....you say "like it really matters"? Your points are valid...I agree with them (but I hate football)....would you say the same if they swore/drank alcohol/ate meat..as a team using a title given to use by Guru Gobind Ji? What about a restaurant using the title Khalsa that served meat and alcohol? Two extreme examples...but which one is right and which one isnt right...and if we value the title Khalsa and the sacred symbols (I'm not referring to actually worshipping these symbols) then surely we must have a blanket rule whereby these things are only used in the religion way and not attached to other things.... Again..these are all my views and I'm only seeking to understand your views as the sangat on this issue...there probably isnt a right or wrong answer..

True...no need for hacking or such....I'm not saying we should do anything against the site...I just wanted to understand from the sangat, how we should approach the issue of the use of Sikhi related titles... the sports club was mearly an example.... So, I'd rather hear your views on the use of titles rather the hacking.... No offence to the hacker person though... Why not just look at it this way....What would Guru Gobind Ji say about it? Would he say its OK or would he say we shouldn't use the titles in such a manner?

Well, it depends on your views of the use of the title, Khalsa. It could be taken to the extreme and used by any Sikh person who wants to form any sort of organisation and may tag Khalsa onto it. From the looks of it...the club isn't full of Keshdharis...so some may say the name should not be used in that context. Also, to use such a sacred title, if those adopted the title are not Khalsa Sikhs is wrong. What if these people drink and eat meat and party under the auspices of the Khalsa title...would you consider that wrong? The point is, where do we start (or end for that matter) when we are offended by other people using the Khalsa or important sacred Sikh related titles...is it OK for one group to use the Khalsa title...but wrong for another group e.g. I recall there was some comments on here about a Bhangra group using the Khalsa title.... Where do we begin to stop the use of such titles? The same applies for use of Sikh imagery.....often I see them imprinted on Dhols used in many bhangra music videos on ZeeMusic etc etc... Isnt this wrong? My impression is that it is... So...we must start somewhere....should we ONLY use Khalsa or other sacred Sikhi related titles/names in the Sikhi/Religious context? Or not? With regards to the aforementioned sports club. I guess if the club was aligned or run as part of a Gudwara group, then I can see the title been acceptable. But it's not, which is why I raised the issue. Lets hear some of your views on this topic (and forgive my spelling errors!!)

Whilst still fresh in mind, I've come across this site: http://www.sportingkhalsa.com/index.php I don't think Khalsa should be used in any other context then a religious one so I think something should be done to change their name to something other then Khalsa. Granted its a Sikh related site sports club...Anyone for/against?

Why would quoting Gurbani be demeaning it? If both families were Gursikh...there was no meat or alcohol at the function....then wouldnt the quotations provide the basis of what the marrage should be about? Woudln't it be a guide for the two Gursikhs to be as one with the light of the Guru? I dont see it being an issue. It would be, if there was alcohol or meat at the venue..otherwise you could use the same thing about websites who quote Gurbani or even other Sikhs and Non-Sikhs who quote Gurbani... Lets not take things too extremes and lets use our common sense and see that this would be a valuable thing for a couple begining the start of their married life.

I agree...this should be a sticky, its a VERY inspiring article.. espicially about baba ranjit singh, I'm sure there was something on this forum a while back about the matha tekhna issue....but after reading that blog i guess I didnt know the whole picture...which I'm sure goes for most of us too. I also agree that we shouldnt disgrace people..no matter what they have done...isnt that the role of BabaJi...he IS the real judge and jury...not us. NO one is perfect so let people repent/change and it will keep Sikhi alive and growing. Great article!

Thanks for the responses...not sure about the dead/kushi thing, but the timing for the Uk makes sense as most ppl r working and its beter for the late afternoon...but at the end of the day its all down to pyar...sum ppl do akhand paths for the name and showing off...if its done with pyar who cares what times it is done.. Thanks though...we had some problems with family members saying it wasnt done right according to sikhi and stuff....surprising this was a amritdhari who said all these things.

Dear All, We recently had the grace of GuruJi to be able to carry out an Akhand Path function. However, we have been questioned by some of the sangat on the timing of the Bhog. The Bhog occured at about 4pm (as opposed to the 'usual' 12pm)... What is your views on this? We feel that as long as the seva was carried out with pyar, timing is NOT an issue, but does it say anywhere that the Bhog should occur prior to 12pm? Thanks :T:

Someone mentioned food on this page of the thread!! i'd gladly give up my profession to become a chef...just an aside.....nothing desi though...probably italian chef...but they dont really have a huge call for Vegetarian chefs I guess...and most desi's would complain because of the lack of mirch and thania! So, I guess its back to pharmacy/research work. Sigh....by the way...any private tutors out there in the UK? Would like to hear from some private tutors for SATS, GCSE level if there are any. cheers Raj(u)

Profession(s): 26 year old post-doctorial researcher at Manchester University (modelling drug absorption) and pharmacist (part-time [between you and me just for the cash really]) Location: Manchester, UK...and currently bloody freezing!!! Employment: Self-employed for the pharmacy work and employed for the post-doc work.

Yeah, as you can tell I'm not one for grammer or spelling! Thank God for spellcheckers...human and non-human. Thesis on the use of dietary flavonoids and modulators of cancers (in laymans terms). Thanks for all those who have mailed me to offer to read! And thanks also to those who have pointed out errors in my spelling!!!

Sangaat Ji, I'd like the assistance of some of you people! I have to submit my PhD thesis next week(or possibly the week after) and am looking for willing and able people to just quickly scan through my thesis and check for any spelling or grammer errors (ones that Word wont pick up). I'm hoping to get a few people to help (and I'd be EVER so grateful if anyone does offer), and if so, i'll probably just send a chapter to each person so it shouldn't take up that much time to read. Anyone willing to help will get a free samosa and cup of tea (if you ever down this end of the pond <<<aimed at you Canadians!). Thanks to you and mainly to the WaheGuru for his support and the support of the sangat! :T:

not wanting to spark a huge argument....but does the tilak represent the 3rd eye or the door to God...it is here we focus our attention...it must be something like that I guess. The point is that number 1, we shouldnt be even thinking "death to them" because how do we know what they are like...they could be good honest Sikhs are we think ill of them... If thats the case, why dont you feel like that for those who cut their beards and hair, surely thats a greater sin then sticking a little red stuff on your forehead. And secondly, as I mentioned...if they are honest people, follow Sikhi and are Sikhi within and without, what does it matter if they wear any garb externaly...providing they follow the 5k's and follow Sikhi, there shoudnt be an issue. It is our mind and maya that lead us to think like this sometimes...who cares about a little tilka and who cares that they are wearing it... You ask yourself if you can confess to being and acting and following the Gurus ideals and teachings, and you ask yourself if you have NO KROHD (plus the other sins) in your life for anyone or anything... If thats the case, you have nothing to wory about. If you have even one of the those vices in your life...then we should focus on changing OURSELVES and not worry about what other people (sikh or not-sikh) do in their lifes...thats for the Guru to decide. Besides...and perhaps the key to this thread (and sorry if it makes the site dead!!)... Where are the answers to life, the universe and everything???? Are they contained here? No, I dont think so. ALL you answers are within you, you just have to seek the teachings of the Gurus and you will find your answers. The point....all your questions will ALWAYS be answered by the GuruJi and not by a forum or thread topic (but these forums do help!!!).

Yes, but I'm the sure the Gurus didnt think like that...I'm sure they preached and taught in the language that they were travelling within. I'm sure they didnt expect all their followers to take up Punjabi to understand Sikhi. If Sikhi is a religion for all, then why isnt should it be limited to those speaking Punjabi? The other major religions all have embraced the language and preach in the language their priests and religious leaders are based within, why should it be any different for Sikhi? And why should that ever lead to degredation of Punjabi? There will always be more Pubjabis then english-speaking sikhs for the near future, so to run parallel english programs in Gudwara's will aid both the older generation and the younger generation and attract others to find out about Sikhi and the SIkh way of life.

And also, the youth of today who are born in the UK will often consider ENGLISH as their primary language and pubjabi as their secondary language, so in some sense they DO know their own first language and it is the Granthis who should be able to speak some of the the NATIVE language of the the UK as well as appealing to those who know Punjabi.

True....but the youth of today, those born and bred in the UK...how can they possibly start to learn their own language if they are not taught this in their own family home? And seeing as english is a worldwide language, and that Sikhi is meant for the world...is the whole world supposed to learn punjabi before they can be able to fully access the teachings of the Gurus as passed down by the Granthis? The Gudwara is an open house for the world is it not? How then, is the world meant to access this beautiful resource is those in high positions and running the Gudwara cannot speak or understand English? What impression does this give to those, non-pujabis in the UK? Doesnt it isolate them? The same idea applies to the small communities of non-white residants of the Uk and other countires. I'm all for keeping ties and links to your own culture...but if you are in another country, some may say we should be able to at least communicate with the natives...otherwise this leads to confusion, mistrust and conflict between different cultural groups. In the same breath therefore, to ensure the teachings of the Gurus are open to all at the first point of call, aka the Gudwara, surely we should have in place resources (aka the Granthis) that are able to appeal to one and all. I'm not saying the Granthis should be able to speak every languange under the sun, but dont you think that they should be able to speak some english? If not for use in the Gudwara, then at least to be able to get along in the UK and be able to speak and live within the UK? The Granthis spread the word for us on the path towards Sikhi, but I think there should be access of these teachings to ALL and EVERYONE, not just native Pubjabis.

I think there should be a requirment to learn english. I've spoken to so many Sikhs who dont go to the Gudwara purely because they dont understand english or they feel they can't speak to the Granthis about topics. We are in the 21st Cent...and there are no longer any real borders when it comes to the travel so who should preachers entering the UK not learn english?? If we are to increase our congregation and strengthen the backbone of the Sikhi (i.e. the yougsters) why shouldnt we make it something that is required for the position? Its all well and fine saying that we there is no need for english as a requiment, but isnt Sikhi for everyone? The doors of the Gudwara are open to one and all....the Gurus all went and preached Sikhi to many across asia (not only India), I'm sure they were required to learn a number of other languages to pass on the message, so why shouldnt it also be for the current crop ofr Granthis? And if this isnt the case, what of the next generation of Sikhs? What of all those who are curretly engrossed in Maya...how will we ever get them back into Sikhi if they cannot even understand those granthis who are trying to spread the message?

Hi Are there are Uk accountants or self-employed people here? I've got to file my tax-return by the end of this month but want to know if I can defer the 1st payment and how I go about that. Any help would be greatly appreciated!