dallysingh101

Currently accepted thinking seems to be that humans and dinosaurs did not exist concurrently (the opening scenes to The Flintstones are not historically accurate), and that humans as we know them today evolved after the extinction of large dinosaurs.

I think you might be decontextualising that. If you look at CP in the DG, it also gives umpteen examples of men being made fools of by their wives which must have reflected at least some contemporary events (unless people are suggesting that the examples given in CP didn't reflect the nature of society around at the time? which would be a strange conclusion to draw to my mind) Do people actually think that there was a time when relationships between genders was simple and straightforward? hhmmmm Okay, I think there is truth in - the more options certain jananis are given the more this can mess them up. You see this with LOADS of gorian, who've been able to choose their own partner in their own time, and then decide he wasn't what they wanted after x amount of years. So social pressure obviously plays a massive part in fidelity. But even some gorian are rejecting the new gora introduced norms, which I think just facilitates promiscuity and an easily compliant workforce for obvious economic and personal sexual advantages (for a culture of men who aren't really that concerned with fidelity compared to others). Dating used to be a way of meeting potential life partners not long ago - not what it is now: Social media plays a big part in this.

Dude, I don't know how true it is (but it seems so), and even if the sources are controversial in other respects (i.e. Niddar and Paramjit) according to their book on Hazur Sahib this is exactly what has happened recently at Hazur Sahib.

I'm going to give it a rest. But let's not get to a place where this becomes yet another issue we ignore that comes back to bite us in the chittor big time later on. It's an important issue that we need to get our heads around and we all have to get less defensive about it. We can all see how burying our heads to the grooming issue for so long has created a massive problem, let's not do that gain - ever. A lot is potentially at stake. Sorry Puzzled.

Have people noticed that a lot of the extremist movements seem to originate or have strong basis up north, or in the midlands? I remember all the Islamist parchaar that swifty took a hold of a lot Muslims in London (in the very late 80s onwards) started with 'parchaaraks' that came from there to here. The wahhabi types. They were quite strongly anti-Sikh (or anti Panjabi culture depending on how you look at it) and saw all the bhangra and drinking that was getting popular amongst all the 'asians' at the time as a downward slip by their co-religionists. Very quickly (in the space of a couple of years), things changed. Hijabs went from practically nonexistent to commonplace amongst Panjabis. Sulliyan were practically banned from going to these 'gigs' through intimidation. The muslay started growing their beards and cutting their muchaan and wearing jack ups etc. Speaking retrospectively, and given what we now know about grooming (and how it fed on this bhangra scene and culture), we should have been more astute on what was happening, as a community. Only some people from B'ham seemed to have grasped what was really going on. How comes we was asleep on this one? What lessons are there for us to learn as a community from this? (not that this excuses all the dirty predatory filth that engaged in this stuff or teh persistent (to this day!) denials and cover ups by the police and social services of this country).

And if you've got dirt, share it by all means. I'm not of the ilk to try and hide or downplay these things (unlike some people). That's exactly how nasty stuff festers and grows in my experience. Any 'brethrenship' I have isn't based on caste but character. Some of us don't feel compelled to get defensive over some twisted notion of casteist loyalty. You should maybe try this - just for the experience. Might be liberating and illuminating? Seriously.

Far right extremists in Britain have viewed ISIS terror and bomb manuals says security minister Almost half of extremists identified by the government are from the far right Security minister Ben Wallace today told Parliament about current terror threats He admitted far right extremists have been viewing Isis terror training manuals He said the right wing threat was highest in the north east and north west https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6877975/Far-right-extremists-Britain-viewed-ISIS-terror-bomb-manuals-says-security-minister.html

So now, despite being explicitly told that I'm not from Kenya a number of times now, you persist. Are you deranged? lol

That's a REALLY good question. I guess it's hard to get that balance between realising that all human bonds are temporary, and still loving and caring for your family whilst always keeping the greater Sikhi concept of our real eternal identity at the fore of our human consciousness (whilst we try and transcend this very thing through bhagti and actions). In an ideal world all members of a family will be striving to break that veil of illusion that somehow separates us from our divine true nature, but in practice it doesn't work like that. People are at different stages due their own karams and efforts. I think this is why Guru ji told us: Nanak hukmai jai bujhay taan haumai kahey nah koe. I guess if we are striving spiritually (which is a blessing because: 'aap vichoraya aap milieyaa' ) we should have some compassion or understanding for those that haven't even grasped this as an objective of human life as long as they are not being destructive to others?

I think it might be what is called a mortar in english. The heavy receptacle that they grind in. So the salotar was the pestle and the sunehra the mortar. I now this is controversial today but I think the salotar and sunerha might be these?

A bit of brandy was a 'desi remedy' for when you had colds. That wasn't uncommon then. It was very common. If you read Falcon's guide to army recruitment of the late 1800s, goray actually believed that amritdharis were allowed to drink 'spirituous liquids'. This was probably based on ground level observations of the time. How do you know so much? And you keep going on like I'm from Kenya. If what you are saying is true. Then it is disgraceful and the people involved should be ashamed. Can you talk about how chuhray and chammars are treated in Panjabi pends right now as well please. By the way. Go to building sites. Pendu Panjabis still call people 'boyee' to this day. lol That's a lie isn't it. There are more pak juts than Sikh ones. Whose Traditional dress is that that they are wearing? Come on. Fess up. Plus, from what I've seen, there are plenty of juts from kenya too. I don't see no pointy starched pags here. It might be them?

Dude, it's the truth. It's even more complex than that because my first job (by pure fate) was in this industry that certain brothers had dominated by then. I don't know where you live, but when I was growing up, apnay from a certain jaat dominated the booze industry (in amassive way!) whether it be in the number of Off Licenses or the the actual supply from warehouses. I really enjoyed my time working there to be honest but there is a bigger picture we need to look at in hindsight. But we have to start thinking strategically and out of the box now. ਅਜ ਕੱਲ ਮੈਨੂੰ ਇੰਜ ਲਗਦਾ ਵੀ ਜੱਟ ਵੀਰ ਦੁਸ਼ਮਣ ਤੇ ਮਤੱਰ ਦਾ ਫਰਕ ਨਹੀਂ ਪਛਾਣ ਸਕ ਦੇ। ਜੇੜ੍ਹੇ ਸਾਡੇ ਵਿਰੋਧੀ ਹਨ ਨੂੰ ਦੋਸਤ ਸਮਜ ਦੇ ਨੇ। ਲੱਲੂ ਹੋਣ ਦਾ ਸਮਾ ਨਹੀ। ਬਹੋਤ ਪੋਤੈਨਸ਼ਲ ਖਤਰਾ ਹੈ। ਤਿਖਾ ਰੈਣ ਦੀ ਜਰੂਰਤ ਹੈ। ਏਥੇ ਵੀ ਗੋਰੇ ਜਸੂਸ ਸਾਡੀਆਂ ਗੱਲਾਂ ਦਾ ਚੇਤਾ ਰੱਖ ਦੇ ਨੇ।

Yeah, and I'm old enough to know where the whole flashy drunk wedding party style started from, and how it became a norm. Again, it's plain denial. At least Juts in the past had the straight boll0cks to proudly say that drinking and bhangra was a truly Jut thing. When you went to wedding 35 odd years ago, the whole drink up thing was rare and associated with who you'd expect it to be. It's just another example of majority culture affecting the the rest. Like bhangra. That's not to excuse the others who jumped on this and made it mainstream. We ALL have to start thinking more about these things and their long term consequences. We struggle with that as a community. It's the same thing going on with demolishing buildings like in the OP. We need a lot of change in mentalities. All of us. Sorry for the intrusion on the thread puzzled.

Thank God. I wonder how much they destroyed before they got stopped?

I told you that I'm not from Africa and nor are my family. We aren't the starched pag brigade. lol So give that one a rest. We are proper Panjabis. Okay, at least you're being a bit more honest now. You took your chances. Which is good. Now we have to be careful people don't wreck this thing. We've got a lot of dushmunhs out there, and we aren't getting that high level leadership like we had in the past with M. Ranjit Singh etc. Your people aren't the only ones who've invested into this thing. You ain't the only ones who've taken their chances with this thing either. And you should figure out the difference between people resisting domination and those that want to dominate. Two very different things.

Well, we finally agree that what is passing for 'culture' in our society today is Jut culture then - or more accurately a modern interpretation of it, influenced by many outside global forces hence all the things you see in a modern Panjabi film, especially in terms of dress and style. With all its negatives and positives. That Panjabi film industry seems quite distinct from Bollywood stuff from what little I fleetingly see of the two. This is not a blame game. It's trying to recognise why we are where we are, and what we might be able to do to change things that require changing. If we don't start getting more innovative and reflective and adaptive - I don't think most of us will like where we will end up. We're already following those western norms of projecting unreal, fantasy lifestyles via our media - give it a generation and we might be seeing all the psychological problems we see in the west that are a consequence of pushing unreal lifestyles to the masses. How comes all reflective comment is met by hawkish defensiveness? No people can't sit on thrones and generally direct a society, and then fail to take responsibility for where we've reached. It might not be all bad, but we need to keep our eyes open and brains engaged to avoid walking into a quagmire in future.

Most of what passes for Panjabi 'culture' these days is though isn't it.

A big part of it is that lack of sophistication thing I bang on about. You have to have a certain level of 'culture' and intelligence to actually grasp how important physical heritage is. We don't have it. We think 'culture' is a tumbhi and bhangra in bright clothes. Look at how many manuscript gutkas/maharaj sahib's have been 'cremated' over the years. Look at how priceless heritage like puratan shasters are cared for - or protected. Look at how many manuscripts we lost in 1984. No one thought to make copies in all the years? Okay, we do have some efforts in the right direction in the west by the diaspora - but generally in our culture backhome - these things are beyond their comprehension it seems. And people might get butt-hurt at what I'm about to say but a big part of this is having people who have convinced themselves they are 'high caste' who only really recently (in generational terms) were unlettered farmers in fields. They don't have that subtle appreciation of arts and craft and literature like genuinely old money does. They prefer other conspicuous and (let's be frank) outright crass shows of status. Subtlety and sophistication isn't something that comes natural to them. It just seems like poor people who've got some money and power now and aren't too sure of what to do with it. But it's not all completely hopeless as Panjab Digital Library shows. Plus let's be honest, the idea of religious artifacts and buildings being used as income generators isn't exactly a new one to our lot. Certain brothers are smart. They know how simple minded and pious other brothers can be in the face of these things - heck even I would throw money money at these things in the past before I realised what the bigger picture was/is. There is logic and incentive behind these culturally destructive moves - as short sighted as they are.

I think the thinking is that massive, imposing buildings impress and bring in more visitors and thus are a good thing compared to smaller, older structures.

Why don't you marry each other if you feel so strongly about each other? Just asking.

If their prophet was doing most if not all of these very things (I don't know for sure myself) - or more importantly, the followers themselves believe he was - then how are they supposed to believe in that system and not think that the actions of the person they venerate the most - are acceptable and just. If the primary role models of any belief system are morally dodgy - thendoesn't it increase thechances of the followers being the same themselves? We know as Sikhs that even apnay exposed to the high moral/ethics of Sikhi can go down dark paths. Well, what about people exposed to ideas like sex slaves, infidels, harems, killing people for having other beliefs not be affected by this?

That's because you are closeted and have no clue about real life. Both these people are a threat to our community in the UK. There are plenty of brave Sikhs (which you are obviously not, hence staying in your mother's basement all these years and being clueless to what goes on in the big bad world), who've had serious run ins with these jihadi wannabes. There IS a link between these jihadis and groomers who target Sikh girls. Oh, okay. Now you admit anglo racism exists. When have white people ever considered nonwhites to be their equals over the last 300/400 years? Who doesn't know this? Are you being slow to learn again jagsaw...........come on....

Oh gosh....my secrets out........ lol <nibbles on a big pie with chips>

Parchaar was actually a strong feature of Sikhi. From what I am gathering, in dasmesh pita's time Bhai Mani Singh was the main guy who was doing this at a high level (towards the intellectuals of the time).