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Posts posted by ipledgeblue

  1. On 4/28/2024 at 9:48 AM, VSinghz7 said:


    And dont make this a caste thing I’m Rajput Jatt sikh (not an ounce of Tarkhan or anything else) and we all starch our INDIAN style punjabi paggs (patiala shahi), but respect them as our crowns and our literal lives. A respected starch pagg is better by far than a freshly tied one which people just disrespect. And people forget that these are not ready made or pre-tied turbans. You still tie them initially but just of course not as frequently. What’s wrong with that?  When your relationship is that strong with the Guru then you know what he means.

    If relationship with Guru is strong, then kanga is done twice a day, and turban should never be taken off or put on like a hat, there is a lot wrong with that as it is against rehit! maryada is to take off every layer of turban/pagh/dumalla individually, and tie fresh turban each time!

  2. On 3/19/2024 at 8:19 AM, BhForce said:

    Yeah, Sikhs should do bhog of food they eat. But the point of bhog is to only do bhog of food which is fit to be presented to Maharaj. It's not maryada to do bhog of khulla maas and pretend it's OK to eat. It's not.

    Come on, bro, you should know better than to bring this Sakhi into it. Is this Sikh in the restaurant accompanied by Guru Gobind Singh ji? Is he fighting a dharam yudh? Or is he merely filling his belly with the nearest restaurant? 

    Please don't make a mockery of our puratan Singhs' sacrifices by comparing them to lazy Sikhs who eat khulla maas.

    yeh it's true, we shouldn't be lazy and need to learn jhatka shikaar. It doesn't help some of grew up in surrounding areas like Slough and Southall where everyone thought it was super bad for amrit dharis to eat meat, and they were following Sant babas and jathas, and instead the Singhs should have been normalising jhatka just like the recent world war soldiers did. We are trying to rectify this and khalsa should learn jhatka.  But I am just writing about bhog for those that are still learning rehit. As I explained, there are all these negative influences in the panth that talk against rehit, but this shouldn't deter us from taking khanda pahul, no matter what level of rehit we are!

  3. On 3/13/2024 at 11:39 AM, Singh1989 said:

    Yes to the restaurant part... more like party halls: round dining table and shoes.

    DK about other Gurudwara but our own Guru ghar has men n women sitting together/ same line in Langhar halls. This also gets to me sometimes.  


    On 3/14/2024 at 11:20 PM, ChardikalaUK said:

    That is completely normal. This seperation of men and women is only found in western gurdwaras. In India families sit together whether it is in the Gurdwara proper or the Langar hall. 

    In langar it should be common sense for peopel to find a suitable space to sit. Normally in my local Singh Sabha gurdwara, there is enough space to sit, so I am able to find a space with enough space away from other people. There have been a few times, where there has been a lot of sangat and I have been forced onto a table.  In Slough and Southall Singh Sabha, Park Avenue, I will just sit near another group of men unless I am with family, but again there shouldn't be strict gender separation and instead common sense logic.

  4. On 3/14/2024 at 11:22 PM, ChardikalaUK said:

    Who started the men and women sitting seperately in western gurdwaras? you don't see this behaviour in India. Will you complain about that as well? 

    Yeh I could do to be honest. It's not really chardikala to be coming from the diwan hall and then sangat putting on shoes to go langar. I like sitting in the gurdwara with family, and there are spaces for this in bigger gurdwaras such as Slough, Southall, Coventry. In my current local area gurdwaras this is not really possible for weekly sangat, and also not for sangrand and gurpurb. Need to complain about these tendikalaUK practices  to be UK chardikala Singhs! 

  5. Also nobody really got back about gurdwaras being used like restaurants and diners.   Who started this recent tradition of wearing shoes at langar, is it a colonial army thing, did soldiers bring this to gurdwaras?

    It's strange because it was practiced across many uk gurdwaras in the past, yet those who migrated from Panjab would never have seen this back in Panjab gurdwaras, so how did this shoes and tables thing even come about for langars?

  6. On 3/1/2024 at 7:52 PM, v.singh said:

    In an ideal world, Ramgharia gurdwaras would follow Dal Panth maryada. In reality it has become synonymous with the sub caste tharkhan.  

    which goes back to my original post, most gurdwaras are scamming us by using the Ramgharia label.   the amount of monay and trim Singhs that call themselves Ramgharia, is bare disrespectful and just continues the scam!


    There are some Nihang groups which use the misl label nowadays. There should be a group of Nihangs to claim the Ramgharia misl label, and it needs to be taken away from the scammers!  

  7. On 2/27/2024 at 7:21 PM, Dsinghd said:

    Is it the end of SGPC? I mean there’s one in Punjab, one in Haryana and Delhi. 
    Recently Hazur Sahib removed 2 members of it.

    It was a British creation in the 1920s.

    no, SGPC is in Panjab. In Pakistan, Haryana and Delhi they have their own committees, not sgpc. But generally, SGPC still controls the rehit maryada of Singh sabha related gurdwaras all over the world.

    18 hours ago, ChardikalaUK said:

    They could offer both floor and table seating. With today's western lifestyle people are less flexible and may find it hard to eat on the floor. 

    Say what you will about the fixo and trim Singhs, there are still far more turbaned Sikhs in a Ramgarhia Gurdwara sangat than a Singh Sabha one. 

    The majority of Ramgarhias came from Africa, I'm one of the few whose parents both came from India. The Africa influence is big amongst them, even their offspring. I've seen several wear Kenya wristbands, something I find very strange as they were pretty much kicked out of there. They also like to go on about Makindu Gurdwara like it is equivalent to Harmandir Sahib and Anandpur Sahib! If I was ever kicked out of the UK you wouldn't see me wearing the Union Jack. 

    Anyway the majority of the youngsters in Slough are abandoning both Ramgarhia and Singh Sabha and are going to Guru Maneyo Granth instead. 

    That's the point, the influence is East African, so what is the Ramgharia label there for, if no one is going to try to be an actual Ramgharia misl Singh?

    Please explain the reason why so many East africa sikhs are attracted towards sikh groups such as PKMC (the jathebandi of Guru Maneyo Granth gurdwara), Naamdharis and their own home grown Nishkam Sewak jatha, as well some other Sants and groups?

    I do feel Guru Maneyo Granth gurdwara sikhs are chardi kala, and spread a lot sikhi knowledge, promote simran,  do a lot of positive stuff for sikh children. I can understand why Singh Sabha Slough youth are attracted to GMG because PKMC seems an offshoot of the AKJ style sikhi many of their families follow.  However some things worry me, like the cult following of Bhai Ajit Singh, which I guess is like following a Sant but something is nagging me. Also the type of simran he makes the sangat do on Sundays, it's not the right kind of sehaj awastha and seems full of krodh, I get a krodhi vibe from him as well and he seems to mispronounce bani often as I have seen him do on some Youtube videos from Singh Sabha Southall, and that is a red flag!!!  One good thing is they do promote bana, even though they don't understand the maryada of not wearing a pajama with your bana =D

    Also when I used to work on Bath Road Slough, I used to visit Guru Maneyo Granth gurdwara and there was someone doing simran usually. However they were pronouncing Waheguru in a weird way, and I just want to pronounce Waheguru normally such as the pronunciation in Bhai Gurdas ji Vaaran . Another positive, I stayed for Sodar Rehras once and granthi read full kabyo baach benti Chaupai. No idea if this is regular, but I hope so. I have been to Singh Sabha and Ramgharia gurdwaras, and they just do the silly Chaupai Sahib kabyo baach benti cutoff during Rehras.

    12 hours ago, v.singh said:

    Technically the fixo singhs aren’t doing a bajar kurehth, and some have a very high avastha, especially from the older generation 

    no, fixo isn't bajjar kurahit, but it is against puraatan maryada and wouldn't be allowed in Ramgharia misl. Their "high" awastha is still not at the level of an asli Ramgharia Singh, and therein lies the problem with using the label across gurdwaras in the uk (Is this Ramgharia gurdwara label use outside uk anywhere as well?). Basically, what I am saying is to the sangat is "you talk the talk, now walk the walk"

    The worst thing that comes out of this is, tk sikhs or east africa sikhs who call themselves Ramgharia with a trim beard or haircut. I know a haircut sikh from East Africa background, I think his grandpa was a rich sikh (unsure if he was a Singh) in Kenya, who owned a steelworks. And the grandson said he himself is Ramgharia. Is said no you're not, Ramgharia is a label for misl Singhs who keep their kesh and wear bana. He goes Ramgharia gurdwara every sunday, but I don't think this makes him a misl member lol. Worse, some years ago, this person also told me I should trim my beard to look more presentable, we can't have people like this call themselves Ramgharia? I think it also gave me an insight into where the trim Singh mentality comes from. I think there's a mentality of choosing presentability over sikhi - to fixo or trim the bread and wear a turban like a hat, to please the gora. Most of our ancestors are guilty of trying to please the gora, no matter if we stayed in Panjab, or migrated to Africa or uk.

    Another incident, when I was younger and trying to learn turban, a tk Uncle close to my family (I don't think he was/is East Africa sikh, but many tk sikh families in uk are influenced by east africa sikhs) gave me a starched ready made turban. So this is another issue that is against maryada, to make your turban ready made and wear it like a hat. We do have this problem in Panjab as well, but it's not visible like it is in East Africa sikhs, and perhaps Afghan sikhs are guilty of this too?

  8. In the uk we have Ramgharia gurdwaras, in some places ther are called Ramgharia sabha!

    However, I think most gurdwaras and even sikhs calling themselves "Ramgharia" are scamming us as they have weak or no connections to Ramgharia misl, and are just using the fact that they are tarkhans they can use the Ramgharia term because Jassa Singh Ramgharia was from tarkhan background. Please prove me wrong!


    Also, I have been observing gurdwaras since I was young. I remember when I was a child in the 80s and 90s, Singh Sabha gurdwaras still allowed shoes and langar was eaten on tables, in the times when the adults used to work all the time, doing double shifts etc. However in the 2000s we can see a change in Singh Sabha gurdwaras as well as some other gurdwaras, where shoes are no longer allowed, and we have a lot of space to sit on the floor and do pangat in langar. 

    It's really strange to see so many tables in gurdwaras after seeing langar done exclusivily on the floor gurdwaras in Panjab and India. Just look at Harimandir Sahib, 4 takht, and many other gurdwaras back home.

    Now, across London, Slough and Berkshire, midlands, I have noticed Ramgharia gurdwaras allow shoes into langar and have little or no accommodation for sitting on the floor. It is bizarre to see in Ramgharia gurdwaras, the sangat coming from doing sangat or matha tek in divan hall, and then putting on their shoes to go to langar. Like we are going to a restaurant or something! What is this, is it some kind of kenya/east africa sikh colonial army era tradition to keep doing this, even after the other gurdwaras have moved back to giving satkar and respect for langar maryada?

    Then we come to the scam, in the Ramgharia gurdwaras, there seems to be more links to East Africa sikhs than Ramgharia misl. There are more trim Singhs with Kenya paghs on Ramgharia gurdwara committees compared to more sabat surat Singhs on Singh sabha committees, from my observations in these England regions. You will find more kenya pagh and trim or fixo darhi, than bana walay Singh in these gurdwaras, again the Ramgharia label is scamming us, as Ramgharia is used for sabat soorat Singhs from the misl, especially those tuned to bana (and open beard is part of bana). Also, I have listened to Rehraas Sahib in some Ramgharia gurdwaras, and they read the disfigured bhasauria SGPC style of Chaupai Sahib (such as the way performed at Harimandir Sahib the past 100 years), skipping arril and the last lines of kabyo baach benti, which makes them more like a Singh Sabha gurdwara and far removed from being Ramgharia due to having similar disrespect towarda bani as Singh sabha gurdwaras, as Ramgharia misl would respect dasam bani and read the full kabyo baach benti.

    So the langar thing is bizarre, and now I think of it it's disrespectful. And the use of Ramgharia sikhs and Ramgharia gurdwaras term is a scam as they are anything but, as there is so much disrespect to be associated with the practices of Ramgharia misl! Even the fact they celebrate Maharaja Jassa Singh Ramgharia's birthday doesn't allow them any forgiveness or courtesy! This goes double for the Slough Ramgharia Singh Sabha, as they have a statue of Jassa Singh Ramgharia, and yet are their actions related to actual Ramgharia?

    Yeh, let's not fall for the scam! and sikhs that are sangat in those gurdwaras, really need to step up and get in those committees and change things for chardi kala! We need to see more chardikala Singhs running things, not trim Singhs and fixo Singhs!

  9. On 12/6/2023 at 8:22 AM, Singh1989 said:

    4 days total. 

    First 3 days Akhand Paat for the auspicious occasion.  4th day Anand Karj followed by Kirtan, Katha and Guru ka Kangar. 

    In my attendance of 20+ weddings I have only seen ONE such wedding. Zero party... party brings meat, alcohol and bhangra / music.

    we shouldn't be worried about meat. I know this forum is allergic to meat discussions, but meat is hardly an issue for a sikh to be worried about! If you want we can discuss privately.

    Bhangra is dreadful these days. However music if required for keertan, so without bhangra music is actually good, if we do music with gurbani or something helpful and chardi kala! However it is unfortunate I am seeing modern keertanis bring keertan down to the level of bhangra from the past few decades!

  10. I think chadar dalni was/is a simple Anand Karaj, maybe still practiced by Nihang Singhs. It was something Maharaja Ranjit Singh practiced as well, but I think this is mostly for marrying widows!

  11. On 10/14/2023 at 6:14 PM, Arsh1469 said:

    1991 edict essentially saying the same. Kharkus made Amritsar to Phagwara meatless, alcohol-less, drug-less etc. People who violated the edict risked their life. 





    would hate for Nihang Singhs have grown this time due to them practicing jhatka maryada and shikaar? In my family pends around Jalandhar Kartarpur, there was much negativity towards Nihang Singhs

  12. @Sukhsingh96 You want to marry someone without exes, and I mean no ex boyfriend and no ex husband. So looking for a virgin is not enough. Otherwise your life will become damaged after marriage, if you pick an ex who claims to be a virgin! You need to look for early 20s. You need someone who is looking for a husband as opposed to a boyfriend, a woman with standards! A woman making boyfriends is not serious enough for marriage, and has low standards!

    You need to make the woman you are marrying understand that she will be treated as a wife, not a girlfriend. She needs to understand that if her standard is to only look for a boyfriend, then she is just not serious enough for you, as she is not serious enough for marriage. In sikhi, women are treated equally, and in 52 hukamnamas of Guru Gobind Singh, Anand ceremony is required to start grihast jeevan. 

    Non-marital partners are acceptable in abrahamic traditions/religions such as concubines and slave girls; girlfriend is a modern type of non-marital partner, and in sikhi we do not bring women down to that level!

    Also when did you start looking for a wife? We are having so many issues because we start looking for partners so late!

    Which subreddit did you post this to? I can speak to the admin if you posted it to r/Sikh !

  13. On 9/24/2023 at 12:49 PM, ChardikalaUK said:

    Apne were getting married at stupidly young ages in the past. 

    My great grandmother had my grandfather when she was just 13. 

    There was a time when the life expectancy in India was just 40.

    Thankfully this is no longer that common but I've read in very backwards parts of Punjab it still occurs. 

    No excuses for it in today's age. And even when it did happen in the past it was between two similar aged people, not a 65 year old an a 9 year old. 

    no excuses, but these days people are getting married at stupidly older ages.

    And a lot of teens, 20s and students have no control of their vikaar panj chor, and they end up in these stupid trash girlfriend boyfriend partnerships instead of anand karaj or marriage! They are really stupid in not getting married. Some people NEED to be married in their teens or by the time they reach 20! Although even 20 is too old for many people, they already have baggage by then, and some also have out of wedlock kids and abortions!

    The biggest hypocrisy I used to see growing up was teens saying they are too young to get married, yet they used to make partners anyway through "dating" bakwass trash garbage! We need to change our mentality, and youngsters need to be explained to seriously that they should only be looking for marital partners, and not down this spiral!

    this stuff is happening more and more because of looking for partners so LATE: 

    Remember, at Guru jis' times the parents used to even start looking for future partners in the childrens' pre-teens, and this includes Guru jis. There is no excuses in starting to look for your childrens' partners in their 20s only! We are so ill-prepared, and so mentally ill-equipped.

    Late marriages are also causing more sikhs to cut hair kesh and beard, and drinking and drug issues as well as smoking and hookah etc. There is less focus on grihast jeevan and more focus on depression, desires and pleasure.

    We are also having less children, and too big age gaps between generations. Our Singh families should be having more children, and less gaps between ages. Need more Singhs to protect families and the panth, too many attackers on every side!

  14. On 9/28/2023 at 1:14 PM, Ranjeet01 said:

    I do sometimes think that the function of a gurdwara has expanded to things that were not expected before.

    We expect them to be political institutions, we want them to be social clubs, we want them to be creches, we want them to be daycare centres. 

    I feel gurdwaras are maybe somewhat getting back to their functions as dharmsalas containing schools and learning centres. With panjabi schools, gurmat classes, santhiya, martial arts, keertan training, with sikhi camps occasionally in towns, there is somewhat some functions connected to traditional gurdwaras of the past.

  15. On 9/22/2023 at 8:05 PM, ChardikalaUK said:

    The suls have written 'Islam will rule' in large graffiti on a railway bridge right next to Ramgarhia Gurdwara, obviously as an act of provocation and the damn committee have done nothing about it, it's been up there for quite a while. I guess we are a cowardly community now. Lots of infighting but haven't got the bottle to paint over this graffiti. The sign for the same Gurdwara on the main Stoke Poges Lane road has also been deliberately changed to point in the wrong direcrion, no doubt the work of suls again. I remember back in the 90s apne threw a pig's head in a mosque as retaliation for them burning the Nishan Sahib, where has that fighting spirit gone? 

    These damn committee members were smashing each others cars a few years ago over elections so they have thugs in their midsts, so why can't these thugs do anything about this graffiti? 

    Any suggestions on what could be done? 

    there's too many Kenya Singhs in those kinda gurdwaras, really chummy chummy with the goras and politicians, fixo the beards to the max and younger generations just trimming it instead of getting into the fixo malarkey, lack of open beards and turbans you can take off like hats, don't make for intimidating or annakhi singhs. I heard that pakistanis try to pickup girls from the Slough Ramgharia gurdwara.  They need to join with the other 2 gurdwaras in Slough to help them out, they can't act like the elders did where they split from the Singh Sabha gurdwara because they were too aggressive, now is the time to use that aggression.  And the Guru Maneyo Granth gurdwara Bath Road gets nationwide sangat on Sundays, so just use those numbers in Slough!

    On 9/22/2023 at 8:38 PM, Ranjeet01 said:

    That does seem to be a thing in more isolated areas.

    But I like those kind of gurdwareh. 

    in these gurdwaras, gyanis and sewadaars are known by the regular sangat, and regular sangat is close knit. Activities and panjabi schools are also good as most of the same children come. 

    In both areas, I don't like the lack of cooperation between Ramgharia and Singh Sabha gurdwaras. Overall it's a benefit to have gurdwaras in at least 2 different locations in big towns and cities. But it's bad if they don't cooperate, especially in major issues that Khalsa is known for. Ramgharia gurdwaras like to rep up Maharaja Jassa Singh Ramgharia, with the Slough gurdwara even having a statue. But the lack of keeping Khalsa rehit, looking too scared and cowardly to keep full beards or open beards, not acknowledging the Khalsa Nihang Singh mentality of Jassa Singh and being stuck in the kenya Singh mentality, not even willing to read Chaupai Sahib properly during Rehras, and many of these Ramgharia gurdwaras are not even willing to keep basic rehit of allowing sitting on the floor for langar and allowing shoes inside as well, all these behaviours aren't working for chardi kala of the panth!

    It's like they are trying to keep their own type of sikhi, it's not even a tradition, just being stuck in their own box, they are not in the colonial British army, or serving in the world wars, or making train tracks or some other jobs for the gora, why do they behave this way, this archaic stuff in gurdwara? And doesn't do justice to Jassa Singh Ramgharia, who would have been a rehitee Nihang Singh, annakhi Singhs who defeated the enemies and kept in the brotherhood of the Khalsa with the other misls, even after their whole misl was excommunicated expelled from the panth, they still rejoined the Khalsa and helped defeat the enemies! I don't see them trying to integrate with the rest of the panth in the ramgharia gurdwaras, not like Jassa Singh, obviously it's the elders who instil these mentalities, with some of the youngsters trying to connect back into sikhi!

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