dharamyudh

11 hours ago, proactive said:

Get your facts straight, Baba Kharak Singh was not a Nihang, he was involved in Kar Sewa across Punjab. Here he is with Sant Bhindranwale. A number of his followers were also martyred during Bluestar.

Woops I mixed them up. Baba Kharak Singhs bro, thought you were talking about the Budha Dal one. 

7 minutes ago, proactive said:

So now it was Indian govt which offered the money as well as the bhaiyas who did most of the work clearing the debris. That was Kar Sewa done in the true traditions of the Khalsa! So if Indira had refused to give any money would Santa gaddar have had the resources to repair the Akal Takht? You think had the intelligence people who had negotiated with him to take part in the gaddari not offered any money that he would have accepted the 'kar sewa'? Part of his gaddari was the money that the govt gave him for selling out the Sikhs. 

Totally Khalsa Tradition to remove Puratan foundations that Guru Maharaj built right? Quit your waffling. 

3 minutes ago, proactive said:

He was the patsy bought in to be the face of the 'kar sewa'

Nice source man  this guy can't be serious....

6 minutes ago, proactive said:

Cope..lol. Really, no need for me to cope with anything. I just presented the GADDAR and his GADDARI. It is you who can't handle the truth. Santa Singh was brought to the Durbar Sahib under PUNJAB POLICE COMMANDO AND ARMY ESCORT.  There were negotiations to have Baba Kharak Singh to undertake the Kar Sewa after the gaddar had been escorted there but Baba Kharak Singh insisted that the army had to be withdrawn. Santa Singh the gaddar couldn't handle being side lined and the Indian intelligence advised Indira to keep with the Gaddar as they couldn't trust the Akalis. Santa Singh was happy to have the army protect him, the same army which has just committed a massacre of Sikh pilgrims a few weeks before. 

Dressed in the colorful saffron and blue-skirted dress of the Nihangs, Baba Santa Singh Chheyanvi Kirori (one with 96 crore followers) arrived at Amritsar's famous Gurudwara Burz Akali Phula Singh in a blaze of government-inspired publicity under the escort of scores of Punjab police commandos and army jawans. "Here look at my forces, we are a sect of martyrs," he declared pointing to the hundreds of his followers dressed in ancient warrior costumes.

Punjab: The elusive solution - Cover Story News - Issue Date: Aug 15, 1984 (indiatoday.in)

 

 

Uh duh? Panjab was basically under lockdown by the military? You think a group of Singhs could walk around without having army attention, especially at Sri Harmandir Sahib? Doing kar seva?Same Baba Kharak Singh Ji served Budha Dal in his absence. Who do you think this is sitting in front of him? 

3 minutes ago, proactive said:

?? First you say you never said Indira should say for it and then you say they made her pay for the damage. Which one is it. Keep your argument consistent at least even if it is ridiculous. 

When did I say they made Indira pay for it? I literally said "Somebody destroys your home are you going to pay for it? Hell no, you (talking about Indira) better pay for the damage you caused. Why should the sangat pay for the damage?" Indian government offered the money themselves. 

1 minute ago, proactive said:

Just a great counter argument, 

Because you're just gonna keep going around in a circle. Cope. 

Also, you can't give a Tankhiya to the Jathedar of the Panth lol... Imagine giving the Jathedar of the Budha Dal, the Panjva Takht a Tankhiya. There is a reason why no one in the Dal took that seriously. 

8 minutes ago, proactive said:

That is the lamest excuse ever. So he was MAKING INDIRA PAY FOR THE DAMAGE. Are you for real? The only ones who made Indira pay for what she did were Shaheed Beant Singh and Shaheed Satwant Singh. They did in the true spirit of the Khalsa but I assume you would want to see the certificates of their Bhagti beyond you have an opinion on what they did. What a joke. As for the rebuilding of the Akal Takht this was necessitated because of the anger felt by the Sikh nation that a GADDAR'S hand had been used to repair it with money from the Tyrant who had bombarded it with tanks. I don't agree with it, they should have looked for a way to re-sanctify the Akal Takht by a symbolic cleansing of it. But just because they did wrong does not exonerate the GADDAR from his GADDARI. The same GADDAR who subsequently had to beg for admittance into the Khalsa form the same 'British inspired' SGPC that he had been badmouthing for years and refusing to accept it, after he lived the life of a TANKHAIYA FOR DECADES. 

I can only assume you were either a kid in nappies or not even born in 1984 so you cannot understand what the anger was of all Sikhs at that time, that a Nihang Jathedar claiming to a representative of the Khalsa Panth would willingly collude with the greatest tyrant the Sikh nation had faced in the 20th century. It's so easy to re-write history and give lame excuses that only starry eyed kids would believe to justify what was the greatest GADDARI that someone who claimed to a Jathedar has ever done. 

Bro do you read? When did I imply that he made Indira pay for the damage. You do the damage, you should be the one who pays for it. This is what they did. Simple as. Why do you want the sangat to pay for something that you damaged? How is the a lame excuse? You know why you're calling it a lame excuse? Because it makes sense. Simple as lol. 

Just now, proactive said:

That is the lamest excuse ever. So he was MAKING INDIRA PAY FOR THE DAMAGE. Are you for real? The only ones who made Indira pay for what she did were Shaheed Beant Singh and Shaheed Satwant Singh. They did in the true spirit of the Khalsa but I assume you would want to see the certificates of their Bhagti beyond you have an opinion on what they did. What a joke. As for the rebuilding of the Akal Takht this was necessitated because of the anger felt by the Sikh nation that a GADDAR'S hand had been used to repair it with money from the Tyrant who had bombarded it with tanks. I don't agree with it, they should have looked for a way to re-sanctify the Akal Takht by a symbolic cleansing of it. But just because they did wrong does not exonerate the GADDAR from his GADDARI. The same GADDAR who subsequently had to beg for admittance into the Khalsa form the same 'British inspired' SGPC that he had been badmouthing for years and refusing to accept it, after he lived the life of a TANKHAIYA FOR DECADES. 

I can only assume you were either a kid in nappies or not even born in 1984 so you cannot understand what the anger was of all Sikhs at that time, that a Nihang Jathedar claiming to a representative of the Khalsa Panth would willingly collude with the greatest tyrant the Sikh nation had faced in the 20th century. It's so easy to re-write history and give lame excuses that only starry eyed kids would believe to justify what was the greatest GADDARI that someone who claimed to a Jathedar has ever done. 

Blah blah blahhhh 

Perspective of Bhai Jagraj Singh 

8 minutes ago, proactive said:

This is the type of reaction you get from brain dead people who will believe that someone is a Mahapurkh without even bothering to see what that person has done which has elevated him to such a position. The person this guy thinks is a Mahapurkh is someone who allowed himself to be used by Indira Gandhi and who was doing 'kar sewa' against the wishes of the entire Sikh people while the army which had murdered hundreds of pilgrims were walking around wearing shoes and smoking and drinking and providing him protection. LET THAT SINK IN.

Knowing how the Nihangs of old used to treat anyone even threatening to smoke in their presence, the fact that this 'mahapurkh' was ok with Indian army walking around smoking just shows how much of a Gaddar he was. 

Proof that they were "wearing shoes and smoking and drinking and providing him protection?" 

Go look at yourself before you start questioning Singhs like Baba Santa Singh Ji 96 Crori or any other Mahapurakh of the Panth. Literally sit on a forum and do Nindya of GurSikhs.

Just now, proactive said:

Sorry but these types of titles are bandied about like they are going out of fashion. Even the Gaddar Santa Singh is claimed to a Mahapurkh these days. 

See I'll never understand you lot. Respectfully, don't speak on it. We're obviously not going to agree on anything. What have you done to question any Mahapurakh? Keep doing nindya, you're only soiling your own clothes at the end. 

Just now, proactive said:

yes, because he was the only one that was there and the thousands of other people at the complex temporarily went blind and even if they gave their eyewitness accounts they were biases and only Baba Sahib Singh Kaladhari was the paragon of truth. 

Being a Mahapurakh and sevadaar of the panth of course. 

1 minute ago, proactive said:

The lack of any evidence to show that Nihangs were in charge of Akal Takht in 1920 is all that is required. We are not talking about 1620 or 1720 or 1820.. we are talking about 1920, a time where newspapers were available, the people who witnessed the event were able to write books about it,... and all you have is NIHANG ORAL TRADITION. You see how idiotic the na.ng position is. This ridiculous claim is only matched by the claim of the Chief Na.ng wally to be the LAST SIKH WARRIOR. Looks like he's watched too much  KARATE KID and KARATE KID 2! 

Oral tradition that comes directly from Baba Sahib Singh Kaladhari themselves but alright buddy. 

1 minute ago, proactive said:

I commented on it because you gave his instagram as a reference to the event. I don't usually engage with these na.ng types who promote the usual na.ng gibberish. 

If you cared to read, I said the post SPEAKS about the event of Baba Sahib Singh Ji Kaladhari. I'm not telling you to use it as a reference. It is a perspective which speaks to this thread. You should go message the guy so you can both have a discourse on both perspectives. Maybe he can give you his references and so on so forth. 

16 minutes ago, proactive said:

How can you have an oral tradition of an event that happened in 1920?? The event occurred in the full light of history, it happened at the our holiest place where thousands of our people were present and where anyone who lived in the vicinity of the Durbar Sahib would have known had taken place. 

There is no dispute about the existence of Nihangs in charge of Akal Takht in 1820s but is in dispute is the fairy tale of Baba Sahib Singh Kaladhari being the Akal Takht Jathedar in 1920 and the Akalis using women to eject him from the Akal Takht. It is true that one of the women in the Akali jathas did assault him and she was restrained by the other Akalis. The fact is the Pujaris after fleeing the complex tried to incite the Sikhs in the villages by saying that the complex had been taken over by lower castes. They went to the complex armed and ready to eject them and when it was found that it was the Pujaris who had fled and it was the Akalis had taken over then these people returned to their villages. The Pujaris had also spread their lies to the Nihangs who then came and took over Akal Takht, It was then that the clash took place. You can choose to believe the 'oral tradition' and lies from the 'last sikh warrior' or you can actually do some research. 

The instagram you linked is pretty bereft of any evidence on the event and apart from claiming that the reformers accounts were biased but Nihang oral tradition which has no evidence to back it up is reliable. The lack of evidence is made up for idiotic statements such as ..

1. After establishing several Chhaonis across Punjab, The Nihangs finally came back to Takhat Akal Bunga. Sadly, the Akal Takht’s Nihangs became victims of the Gurdwara Reform.

So the Nihangs just walked into the complex sometime between the 1850s and 1920s and became custodians of the Akal Takht while there was an all powerful Sarbrah appointed by the British in charge?  Any idea what the Akal Takht Jathedar was doing in 1919 when the Sarbrah Arur Singh was honouring General Dyer at the complex and commit blasphemy by accepting Dyer's joking request that if he took Amrit he should be allowed to keep smoking.

Also by all means you can go and message Kshatriya Khalsa about it as well. I'm just going off what I gathered from the Nihang perspective man. 

11 minutes ago, proactive said:

How can you have an oral tradition of an event that happened in 1920?? The event occurred in the full light of history, it happened at the our holiest place where thousands of our people were present and where anyone who lived in the vicinity of the Durbar Sahib would have known had taken place. 

There is no dispute about the existence of Nihangs in charge of Akal Takht in 1820s but is in dispute is the fairy tale of Baba Sahib Singh Kaladhari being the Akal Takht Jathedar in 1920 and the Akalis using women to eject him from the Akal Takht. It is true that one of the women in the Akali jathas did assault him and she was restrained by the other Akalis. The fact is the Pujaris after fleeing the complex tried to incite the Sikhs in the villages by saying that the complex had been taken over by lower castes. They went to the complex armed and ready to eject them and when it was found that it was the Pujaris who had fled and it was the Akalis had taken over then these people returned to their villages. The Pujaris had also spread their lies to the Nihangs who then came and took over Akal Takht, It was then that the clash took place. You can choose to believe the 'oral tradition' and lies from the 'last sikh warrior' or you can actually do some research. 

The instagram you linked is pretty bereft of any evidence on the event and apart from claiming that the reformers accounts were biased but Nihang oral tradition which has no evidence to back it up is reliable. The lack of evidence is made up for idiotic statements such as ..

1. After establishing several Chhaonis across Punjab, The Nihangs finally came back to Takhat Akal Bunga. Sadly, the Akal Takht’s Nihangs became victims of the Gurdwara Reform.

So the Nihangs just walked into the complex sometime between the 1850s and 1920s and became custodians of the Akal Takht while there was an all powerful Sarbrah appointed by the British in charge?  Any idea what the Akal Takht Jathedar was doing in 1919 when the Sarbrah Arur Singh was honouring General Dyer at the complex and commit blasphemy by accepting Dyer's joking request that if he took Amrit he should be allowed to keep smoking.

Uh.. I mean that is considered history no? I'm just offering an explanation for how he may have got the information. Believe what you wanna believe man I could care less tbh.  

2 hours ago, proactive said:

The SGPC was the best that we could have achieved at that time. When times change then our institutions and organisations need to be changed as well. Either you reform these organisations or they become corrupt, wither and die. No one is denying that the SGPC as well as the Akali Dal have been corrupted mainly due to one family, the Badals. 

There is a nefarious agenda which raises its ugly head every few months when some innocent looking question is asked about the founding of the SGPC. This is aimed at advancing the agenda and conspiracy theories of the 'last sikh warrior' Niddar nan.g. Probably one of his followers spreading his BS. Who in their right mind would think some deluded Nihang in 1998 would know what happened in 1920. His BS is easy to counter, there are newspapers and books written by both supporters as well as detractors of the Akali movement. Until Niddar came up with his BS, there has never been anything written about some Baba Kaladhari being thrown out of the Akal Takht. For one, the Nihangs had already lost control of Akal Takht after the Shaheedi of Akali Phoola Singh. Their centre had sifted to Anandpur Sahib. The main Nihang centre in Amritsar was Burj Baba Phoola Singh. When the Pujaris saw the strength of the Sikh opposition against their refusal to accept degh from the 'low castes', they ran away and they tried to bring in the Nihangs to help them from Burj Baba Phoola Singh by telling them that anti-social elements had captured the Durbar Sahib. This was what led to the clash there. And as for the latest BS that the Akalis used women so that the Nihangs wouldn't attack them. These Akalis were majority former soldiers who had fought in the trenches of WW1. I doubt they needed to use women out of fear of the Nihangs. The other Akalis such as Kartar Singh Jhabbar had a history of doing parchar in the Bar area of Nankana Sahib where he faced opposition from the Muslims. Many a time he would have to defend himself and in the process smash a few heads. 

I'd look to put out that the story of Baba Sahib Singh Ji Kaladhari 96 Crori getting removed from Sri Akal Takht Sahib is in the Nihang oral tradition. Akali Baba Santa Singh Ji 96 Crori became a Singh under Akali Baba Chet Singh Ji 96 Crori and succeeded him. Akali Baba Chet Singh Ji 96 Crori themselves succeeded Baba Sahib Singh Ji Kaladhari. That's how he most likely got his information. 

This post speaks on the event 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CQyGYOGscF5/

3 hours ago, Kau89r8 said:

Can you provide sources reliable where they were  'killed' and how many?

If they were getting killed, would India not provided their ID who were 'killed'...they'd be all over it

 

I don't know how many got killed, but Hindus did get killed. Just ask the elders in the community. The pulling out of busses was a real thing. The movement wasn't a united front.