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proactive

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proactive last won the day on June 27

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  1. There are some on social media who are criticising Deep Sidhu and claiming that allowed himself to be ambushed by Barkha and that he should have steered clear of answering the question about Sant Bhindranwale. I think he did well because we should not allow ourselves to be railroaded into accepting the govt narrative. If the threat is that by putting forward our views about Sant Bhindranwale means that we will lose public support then our efforts should be not to accept the views of the propagandised public but to change their views. To me it looked like Barkha was genuinely shocked that Deep Sidhu defended Sant Bhindranwale and this just shows how insidious and deep rooted has become the govt propaganda. Her shock and no doubt the shock of the vast majority of her viewers are actually a good thing because when we become shocked by the views of another person, human nature is such that we seek to know why that person has that opinion. The only way to so this is to read what that person has read and I ma sure that Barkha has been shocked enough to research more into the topic because up to now she has just read and believed the govt narrative.
  2. It's not wrong to have a mind that questions everything and sometimes many conspiracy theories that were once rubbished turned out to be true. However what are the views of the families of Beant Singh, Satwant Singh and Kehar Singh? Surely they would be the best ones to bring out if this really was faked death? Because nothing of the sort has come out and given that such conspiracies can never be keep secret because the number of people who would need to keep that secret means that the truth always comes out in the end. Personally I think most of these conspiracy theories are a load of rubbish.
  3. Here is the Gurdwara and Mandir of Bhagat Dhanna Singh that Manoj Singh referred to to in the video.
  4. Very true, I was thinking that myself. Once he comes on this thread it's going to be like this scene from the movie Tombstone. Just replace the word cowboys in Wyatt Earp's speech to Jats.
  5. Very true and very perceptive. One can only imagine how greater our numbers could be today had we had a SGPC and DSGMC and other Sikh organisations run in a honest manner and not in the control of the Badal family who have misused the golak funds for their own personal benefit. There is so much potential for Sikhism to grow among Hindus in India and yet apart from a few cases here and there, we have lost the steady flow of Hindus to Sikhism that we had throughout our history. There was a time when the SGPC magazines used to report on the Amrit Sanchars being held in various places around India and they would report the number of Sikhs who were taking Amrit as well as the number of non-Sikhs taking Amrit on these occasions. Nowaday it just reports the number of people taking Amrit and no doubt the vast majority of these would be Sikh and the non-Sikhs would just be a handful. 1984 is one of the reasons for the stopping of the flow of Hindus to Sikhism. Bhai Jugraj Singh had the right idea and was active and fervent in his belief that the Hindu future in India lies in their becoming Sikh. Manoj Singh came to the same conclusion about his particular community and yet some in our community want to throw cold water on that and bring up the mass murderer Sajjan Kumar as some sort of reason that we should not be welcoming Jaats to Sikhism.
  6. If you read my other posts I have written on numerous occasions that we should be aligning with the dalits in India and not wasting money and effort on langars for Rohingyas and making common cause with Muslims as fellow sufferers of Hindutva. I have posted about Jatav Hindu lower castes who became Sikh in the early 90s ironically as a result of caste oppression by Hindu Jaats. You can have many streams of parchar. You mentioned Bir Singh Ranghretta, so why don't you make the effort to educate the forum about him and the Mazhabi Sikhs? Rather than waste you time chiding people for having less knowledge than you, why not educate instead of criticise. The aspect that all critics of Jats and their contribution to Sikhism miss is that some stage probably in the time of Guru Gobind Singh or Banda Bahadur, the Jats became Sikhs in large numbers and became a majority in Sikhism. Hence they were able control large tracts of territiory and were able to become landholders. Landholdings have always denoted a superior status in Punjab, The reason other castes did not gain the same or even a superior status to the Jats was that their numbers were never large and their tribes/castes never converted to Sikhism en masse as Jats did. The other castes such as Ramgarhias, Ahluwalias, Khatris, Mazhabis etc had leadership roles on an individual level but never had the advantage of mass contribution or mass conversion to Sikhism of their fellow caste members. Had say one of the other castes also had converted en masse then they too would have had a larger role in Sikhism and Sikh institutions. You mentioned Sajjan Kumar and displayed some sarcasm about me seeeking people of the same community becoming Sikhs. Is Sajjan Kumar a representative of all Jaats? Since you seem to know Sikh history to an advanced level you are do doubt aware that many of the Jat Chaudhris of the Majha area and their followers were active in the Mughal oppression of the Sikhs. When the Khalsa took over Punjab some of them were punished but for the most part their followers and families joined the Khalsa and no doubt some of their descendants would have fought in the Khalsa army and many of their descendants would have taken part in the Kharkoo movement.
  7. These Jaats are an interesting people. From my research they are split into three groups. The Punjabi Jaats, these are Jats from Punjab who moved into western UP possibly before the Jats in Punjab converted to Sikhism en masse or when Jats had only started to convert to Sikhism. They have the same gots as us, such as Sidhu, Sandhu, Chahal, Dhillon etc and are probably about 15-20% of the Jaats. The ones in UP are virtually Nanakpanthi Sikhs and they use the Guru Granth Sahib in their ceremonies. The ones in Haryana are more Hindu than Sikh. The next are the Deswali Jaats, they are the majority of Jaats and have gots of which only a few are found among Sikhs such as Jakhar, Ahlawat, Malik, Sangwan etc. They are probably about 50-60% of Jaats and they have no connection to Sikhism because no parchar had ever taken place among them. They are in south western UP, Haryana and Bharatpur and Dholpur districts of Rajasthan. The Punjab Jaats are mostly in Moradabad district and northern Haryana. The last group are the Bagri Jaats, they mostly inhabit Hissar and Sirsa districts of Haryana and Bikaner districts of Rajasthan. There are some Bagri Jaats in Fazilka and Abohar tehsils of Punjab. Some of these Bagri Jaats are Sikhs in Punjab but no parchar has ever taken place among the ones outside of Punjab.
  8. One thing that these Jaats admire about Sikhs is our unity. Yes, we are always to the ones who keep going about how divided we are but compared to other people we still have a sense of unity and brotherhood which a lot of these people lack. Also historically they look up to Punjab as well as Sikh Jats because the Malwa states ruled over a large part of their areas. The Bharatpur Rajas used to ask for help from the Dal Khalsa and these Jaats admire the fact that we ruled most of Punjab while their ancestors ruled smaller areas. A few years ago I was reading one of their forums online which was just after the Muzaffarpurnagar riots which was between the Jaats and the Muslims and although they had given the Muslims a beating still they had a sense of fear that they were being swamped by Muslims and their areas would become Muslim majority. One of the members bought up that they needed to be united 'like the Sikhs' and another said that the BJP and the Samajwadi party had let them down and they needed to think of the future and maybe they should ne converting to Sikhism. It was a strange thought process but I think these Jaats at this stage are looking to see where their future lies and maybe their future is Sikhi. They are more in number than Sikh Jats, they were 2.9 million in 1931 compared to Sikh Jats being 2.2 million so there is a great potential for Sikhi to grow provided Sikh organisations take active steps to do parchar there. The is definately a potential for parchar among them and Manoj Singh needs our support. He is well read and unlike many in the Jaat community he does not advocate casteism. An interesting sidenote, the son of a Hindu Jaat landholding family of Kuchesar in Bulundshahr district of UP in the early 1900s married one of the daughters of the Bhadaur Raja and became a Sikh. His family is still Sikh and they hold the Kuchesar fort in UP. Here is a picture of him and his family and retainers. I think the manager of Nankana Sahib estate Sardar Narain Singh was instrumental in converting the next generation of this family to Sikhism in the 1930s.
  9. This is quite an informative video from Akaal channel. This Hindu Jaat from Haryana converted to Sikhism after he was imprisoned during the Jat reservation agitation a few years ago. There are a few more of his videos on youtube where he feels the future of the Hindu Jaats of Haryana, UP and Rajasthan lies in their becoming Sikhs. In his othe videos he outlines that the Hindu Jaats after 1870s became Arya Samajis instead of going towards Sikhism which was their natural home. He make many interesting points. I remember chatting to a Hindu Jaat many years ago in London who was a student. He has a sense of pride in his Jaat caste and looked on the Khalsa army of Maharaja Ranjit Singh (wrongly) as the 'Jat' army. He hated the local Hindu Rajputs of his region (Hissar district) and wanted the Sikh Jats to help his people 'defeat' the Rajputs. He also wasn't very fond of the Bahmans and Banias of his area. I also remember that during the 1980s even though Punjab and Haryana were at logger heads over the SYL canal but in the late 1980s the Hindu Jaat youths were in many ways copying the ways and manner of the Sikh youth in such basic things as honouring speakers at their conferences with a lathi instead of a Kirpan and a chaddar instead of a siropa. It shows how the influence of Punjab was still there in Haryana. Sikhism has always had an attraction for the rural farming population. The Jats in Punjab even in districts where they were less than the Hindu Jats, through Singh Sabha parchar become the majority of Jats. Could something similar happen in the Hindu Jaat areas?
  10. It looks like Lord Indarjit Singh from the one man Network of Sikh Organisations was invited and got a cold and didn't event. Whether you support Sikh representation at this event of not, we need to consider that these images are sent all over the commonwealth as well as around the world. Sikh representation also irks the Indian establishment because separate Dikh representation shows that Sikhism is accepted as a seperate religion. The problem now is that one man who usually hogs all the limelight when it comes to Sikhs in the media or government didn't think to have another Sikh attend in his place if he was unwell. This is the sort of attitude that is prevalent in these kind of situations with Sikhs. One Sikh does not want another to take his place incase his own position is threatened. Lord Singh is 88 years old and yet in a 500K community there was no other Sikh who could be found to represent us. Shows the sad state of our community and the people who think that only they should be representing us.
  11. I think the American Sikhs have diverse views just as Sikhs in any other country. The ones from NY tend to be hard core SJW while the ones in California are more hardcore Sikh. This follows the usual pattern, the ones from Punjab and from rural areas are more conservative while the ones from Delhi who are more white collar tend to be SJW. Even in NY the division is clear to see, the ones who live in places like Richmond Hill are more conservative while the ones on Long Island are SJW. Thisd Sonny Singh guys is a total i.diot
  12. The same situation happened with the Nankana Sahib Granthi's daughter, there was more publicity and opposition to that from Sikhs in India compared to just an article in the Daily Mail. If yoy watch the video then you would think that her family are in the wrong and she has willingl;y converted but then you have to understand the pressure she must be under now, there is no way that the millions of Muslim extremists in Pakistan would her to return to her family and there is no doubtshe has been told that she and all her family will be killed if she does not follow her 'husband's' instructions. All those involved, the police who bought her to the court, the judge and everyone unvolved apart from her lawyer and her family would have put enormous pressure on her to not go with her family and to reject them. This is why any non-Muslim living in a Muslim country is basically a 2nd class citizen and virtually has no rights. Imran Khan is a first class hypocrite criticising France for being anti-Muslim when his country treats non-Muslims like trash.
  13. I feel sorry for Deontay Wilder, he was hoping people had forgotten the beating he received from Tyson Fury and now this case is bringing it all back to him. I bet he's having nightmares.
  14. True, most of the Sikhs outside of core Sikh areas tend to be just Hindus in turbans. The Delhi ones are the worst, especially the bhapas. The poorer Sikhs in Delhi belonging to the Lobana, Sikligar and other tribes were the ones that suffered the most from the Delhi genocide and these bhapas are the ones who then went out of their way to defend the murderers of the Sikhs and force the victims to recant on their testimonies. These bhapas do not have any Sikhi pride to be honest and they are ones you see on youtube videos getting pushed around by the police or by the Hindus in their areas. People like to deride Jats but in a fight situation a Jat is more likely to be giving the beating than receiving it.
  15. Very true. The Muslims have been lying for decades that the Quran is preserved and that every word in every Quran in the world from the 7th century down to now are exactly the same. Now it looks like there are hundreds of Qurans which have both minor and major differences between them. The Quran which a majority of the Muslim world reads was only chosen in the 1920s in Egypt as the official Quran for Al Azhar university and the Saudis then chose that Quran when they wanted to start their <Edited> push into the rest of the world. Just this much is enough to destroy Islam in any rational Muslim.
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