singh70

Looks like the extremists on here got it wrong again in trying to push their anti Hindu agenda. The so called Dal Khalsa Uk press release - a joke! http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/7770455.stm

Ever wondered if the money Sikhs donated to Kashmir earthquake relief would end up in the wrong hands. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081205/ap_on_...s_militant_test

Some Sikhs want to prevent the professor from speaking in Gurdwara's because he questions the authenticity of Dasam Granth. However there are those that question the Guru Granth Sahib Jee, i.e AKJ - nobody seems to want to stop them. What is more ironic is that sections of the AKJ want the professor to be banned lol!! This is not a post on the Dasam Granth, but of hypocracy.

I know some of you lot on here may pick on some aspects of this but i like it.

Sorry i totally disagree with your interpretation. You are distorting Guru Ji's sayings in order to mould them into the practice of bibek. Whenever Guru Granth Sahib Ji is quoted to prove actions against some aspects of rehat - people say Guru Ji is refering to Brahmins or Yogis. If that is the case, why do we bother trying to further ourselves by learing from Guru Granth Sahib Ji - we should leave Guru Granth Sahib Ji to Brahmins. Guru Ji is in fact, imho, teaching us all but using examples. We need to apply the teachings of Guru Ji to our life - but all we can come up with is - "that does not apply to us, it applies to Hindus, or Brahmins or Yogis.. In the above shabad, Guru Ji clearly states impurity is removed by spiritual wisdom. Leaving everything else aside - do we get spiritual wisdom by bibek or by contemplating on Guru Granth Sahib Ji - Naam, meditation? I could go on but i won't.

Thank you for a direct quote from our Guru. Basically 'bibek' is against our Guru's teachings Strange how only 1 person has commented on the above saying of our Guru. But a lot of people will still carry on with 'bibek' because they value their jatha's maryada more than Guru Granth Sahib Ji. They may bow before Guru Granth Sahib, but they do not follow Guru Ji's teachings.

Well done to M S Dhoni and the lads on a superb victory. http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/cbs/content...ery/340936.html

Is unshorn hair necessary for union with God? Bearing in mind, accoring to Guru Granth Sahib Ji - the NAME of God is the only thing that matters Har ka Naam jan ka-o mukat jugat. The name of the God is the way to liberation. What matters is love and devotion to God. So much so that you merge with Him. Guru Ji goes on to say The Name of God is the essence of all religions It resides in the hearts of all devotees. Sagal maatai kayval Har Naam. So Christions, Jews, Buddhists etc have the NAME as long at they are devoted to God. They don't keep hair nor have they Amrit. but some Sikhs say that Amrit is necessary for emancipation. Baically Guru Granth Sahib Ji contradicts some elements of Rehatnamas that were produced later on in years, but some people prefer to follow rehatnamas than our Guru Ji. Guru Ji says appearance does not matter But rehatnamas say one must not wear hats Guru Ji says does not matter what one wears. Rehatnama says one must not wear red. IMHO Amrit is necessary to be Khalsa and puts you on a path of discipline but it does not ensure you emancipation - that occurs with the NAME of God alone. Fateh.

what according to u is sabaat surat here ???? is guru ji talking here uncut hairs and turban on the head ???? hak halaal bakhorahu khaanaa || Let what is earned righteously be your blessed food. dhil dhareeaao dhhovahu mailaanaa || Wash away pollution with the river of your heart. peer pashhaanai bhisathee soee ajaraaeel n dhoj tharaa ||11|| One who realizes the Prophet attains heaven. Azraa-eel, the Messenger of Death, does not cast him into hell. ||11|| kaaeiaa kiradhaar aourath yakeenaa || Let good deeds be your body, and faith your bride. rang thamaasae maan hakeenaa || Play and enjoy the Lord's love and delight. naapaak paak kar hadhoor hadheesaa saabath soorath dhasathaar siraa ||12|| Purify what is impure, and let the Lord's Presence be your religious tradition. Let your total awareness be the turban on your head. ||12|| musalamaan mom dhil hovai || To be Muslim is to be kind-hearted, anthar kee mal dhil thae dhhovai || and wash away pollution from within the heart. dhuneeaa rang n aavai naerrai jio kusam paatt ghio paak haraa ||13|| He does not even approach worldly pleasures; he is pure, like flowers, silk, ghee and the deer-skin. ||13|| so guru sahib is telling a qazi ( muslim ) to keep hairs and wear turban ... soorat is punjabi word also used for dhean ... like people say ' essdi rab naal soorat judi hoyi aa ' guru sahib is saying a qazi make devotion to god a turban of ur head ... it has nothing to with looks and what we wear .... and same is with hoye sikh topi dharre ... if u still want to change gurbani go ahead ... guru harrai sahib ... told baba ramrai never to show up their face for changing a word in gurbanni from musalman to baiman ... and we are changing meanings of gurbanni .... what will happen to us in dargah only god knows .... Excellent post Jassa. This is my point in the previous post. Guru Nanak Ji is not into outwardly appearnace. He is telling us to make devotion to God the be all and end all It is written in the Guru Granth Sahib but we have some who will ignore it and quote from a rehatname written by some Singh other than Guru. How do we know that Guru Gobind Singh Ji dictated the rehatnama?

would you mind sharing your opinion on the part of tankhanama of bhai nand lal ji I quoted earlier, or do you thing Guroo Sahib Ji didnt practice what they preached? Also, i dont know if u believe, but Baba Nand Singh Ji guided an artist to paint a picture of when he saw Guroo Nanak Dev Ji by giving detailed descriptions, this painting shows Guroo Sahib wearing a GOL DASTAR (Please note i do not advocate pictures of Guroo Sahib or idol worship, just putting this here for the sake of argument) Some folks pay more attention to rehatnamey which are dodgy to say the least. Why pick on some elements of rehatnama and ignore other elements/ Example - rehatnamey also tell us not to wear the colour red and to slay a muslim whenever you come across one - but we ignore these. Guru Granth Sahib Ji time and again tells us that people should not pay attention to outward appearance as the NAME is in the heart. Has anyone actually got something written by Guru Gobind Singh Ji forbidding us to wear hats or do we rely on some other Singh's views? Some elements of rehatname contradict Guru Granth Sahib Ji - i personally ignore them

Excuse my ignorance but where in the Guru Granth Sahib Ji does it say we cannot wear hats? I know a dodgy rehatnama mentions it, but it also mentions that we should not wear red coloured garments, kill a cow, and slay a muslim if and when we come across one. Fatheh.

There was a recent discussion on here regarding the weddings ceremonies of our Gurus. The lama was written by the 4th Guru Ramdaj Ji and this is what is now used in weddings - the Anand Karaj. The Adi Granth was established by the 5th Guru Arjan Dev Ji. So how were the first 3 Guru's married? Pandits, some other ceremony?

Banda - i vehamently disagree. 5 pyare did not tell me to practice this interpretation of bibek. Nowhere in the Guru Granth Sahib ji is this stated. More importantly the Guru Granth Sahib ji criticises these practices as committed by brahmins and yet we have sikhs doing the same. It seems that some folks prefer to listen to baba's, saints, and dodgy rehatnamas than the Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Look around , the flour which makes roti is prepared by non-amritdharis. The walkers crisp are prepared by non amritdharis. The biscuits from your local tescos, the cheese, the butter, the sauce, the pasta, the beans, the potatoes, the vegetables grown in farms, everything virtually is prepared by non-amrithdaris Tell me do the Bibeki's honestly refrain from these? Do they plant and grown their own vegetables and churn their own butter etc? Bibek = BI means 2 and ek means 1. To move from duality to the one Vaheguru.

Further to the point. I went to a kirtan smagam organised by a particular jatha who will remain nameless. In the Gurdwara kitchen the langar was being cooked and served by non-amritdharis. However some of the jatha came to the kitchen and told those serving that they could not do it and the jatha members themselves started to serve the langar. I found this unbelievable and totally against the tenets of Sikhi. It was ok to eat the food that these non-Amritdharis had prepared but it was not ok for them to serve the food.

In some Gurdwara only Amritdharis are allowed to serve in the kitchen. However the same Gurdwara accept donations from non-Amritdharis which go to buy the food etc. Should these Gurdwara stop accepting donations from non- Amritdharis? Guru Nanak criticises the Brahmins in the Guru Granth Sahib for covering their noses and mouths when in close vicinity to meat eaters. But the brahmins do not hesitate to accept donations from the same meat eaters. ( I forget the exact page number).

I was a bit wary aswell when i recently went to India. I went to Uttaranchal and then to Punjab. I found that the Hindus in Uttaranchal looked at me with more respect and happiness than the Sikhs in Punjab who i had a feeling thought i was backward.

the main enemy are the Pakistani's

It is very refreshing to have a discussion on this topic. It is good to see we as Sikhs trying to find the true essence of Guru. To me Guru does not mean a human being. A Guru can take the form of a book because the meaing of Guru is teacher - who leads from darkness to light (GU means darkness and RU means light) Guru Gobind Singh Ji said that we should treat the Granth as the Guru. I do not believe (correct me if wrong), that he said we should treat the Granth as a human. Respect the Granth as a Guru, a spiritual Guru, do not treat it as a human being, by offering it food and water etc. Otherwise we are going against the very teachings of all our Guru's, who criticised Hindus for treating stone idols as humans. We mock the Hindus for washing and even marrying their statues to each other. We must grasp the essence of the teachings of the Guru Granth Sahib ji and be one with God. That does not mean we should place the fundamental essence of Sikhi in mandirs and clubs etc. The Guru Granth Sahib Ji is Sikhi and Sikhi is the Guru Granth Sahib Ji, so take care of it. Without the Guru Granth Sahib we would have drifted into idol worship in mandirs by now.

Harminder Sahib was in existance prior to 1699. Therefore traditionally food was prepared by non-amritdharis at Harminder Sahib.

There is a bit of hypocracy going on here. 'Sehajdari' (those who cut their hair) accept whole heartedly that the Granth Sahib Ji is the Guru of Sikhs. Yet they refuse to accept that Khalsa is also necessary. Who was it that made the Granth Sahib the Guru of Sikhs? Who was it that stated that it is necessary for Sikhs to take amrit and become Khalsa? Why accept one instruction of Guru Gobind Singh Ji and not the other? Ok if they feel that they cannot live up to the expectations of a Khalsa, but to denounce the need for it is being a hypocrite.

IMHO. The Guru Granth Sahib Ji uses various terms to describe devotees of God. Gurmukh is the most widely used, and then there is Sant. The attributes of a Gurmukh are the same as a Sant. If i said i was a Gurmukh - i would be applauded. If i said i was a Sant - i would be denounced. If i said i was a brahmgyani - i would be shot A Gurmukh is a Sant and a Brahmgyani, btw i am neither, as i still follow my mann (mind) and not the Guru. If one does not deem himself worthy of being called a brahmgyani or sant, he should neither by considered a gurmukh One who is a true Gurmukh and follows the teachings of the Guru, is a sant, a brahmgyani and vice versa. So why all this emphasis on the term 'sant'. Modern society has deemed it acceptable to use the term Gurmukh willy nilly and not the terms sant and brahmgyani. The latter two terms are said to be higher up the ladder. Consequently we have people who thus use these titles - to show their importance - they should not. There were no 'men with sant titles' in Sikhi during the time of our Guru's, so what has happened? We had men such as Bhai Mani Singh Ji, Baba Deep Singh Ji, Baba Buddha Ji, Bhai Gurdas Ji etc. They are considered to by very spituitual men, but they did not have the title sant. Why? Because 'sant' is not a title but a description of a true devotee, a Gurmukh. We have had very inspirational men in our recent history. Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale Isher Singh Ji. Gurbachan Singh Ji. Now if they did not have the term Sant in front of their names, would we have less regard for them. NO, of course not. It seems we run after the title of men but not the inner truth, the teachings etc. Finally, why are there no women sants? Or put it another way, is there a women with a sant in front of her name, or have they not reached that level yet? Vaheguru Vaheguru!

What counts is your love/devotion to God. Not techniques (rituals?) on how to do paath/simran etc A man can do tuta puja paath/simran - as long he is devoted and loves God - then God will not forsake him. Bairaag comes when it comes, there is no special one and only technique. Vaheguru

Purit/impurity is measured according to devotion to God. Not whether one eats from non-Amrithdaris or not. It was Brahmins who practiced this ritual about staying pure/jhoot etc. We are Sikhs. I have taken Amrit and i eat from anyone, mother or not. I know some Amritdharis do not. Up to them.