Mat Pulo Rai

Well Alias, im definitely not in it for my own agenda, im not trying to start my own cult if thats what you mean wonder what i would call it.. but in all seriousness, if you don’t believe in the explanations which I have been taught thats your choice. I used to be around Bhai Rama Singh Jee when i was young and had the opportunity to do Jorai di seva with Bhai Shaib, also my brother was commissioned to make the illustrations of Bhai shaibs dreams within the book. Now how they told us to do Joria de seva was to 1st believe there are Guru Shiabs Joria, clean the outside (not the sole) and inside of the shoe, then Rub that dust on your forehead and at the same time doing simran. As I said the Seva is to humble one’s self and to come to the understanding that we are the dust of all around us, but Guru Shiab says one can’t be taught the lessons of Spirituality filled with ego, so clean the toilets or the dishes or hover, whatever picks you’re fancy. Now this covers seva, not what Thoor and Charran within Gurbani means. Gurbani is the khooj (understanding) of Gods game and what God gifts his Beloved Charran in a spiritual context means Naam, Sehj Dhun, Unhadh Bani. Now gurshaibs have said that by listening to Naam you obtain Amrit from within Dasam Duaar gur parasaadh anmrith ras cheenaiaa oue paavehi mokh dhuaarae |2| By Guru's Grace, they are aware of this ambrosial essence; they find the Gate of Salvation. ||2|| When they say gur kae charan dhoe dhoe peevaa |1| I wash the Guru's Feet, and drink in this water. ||1|| They mean by listening to Naam and doing simran I drink Amrit Raas over and over -Sub section Unhadh Bani is called Guru by Guru Nanak dev ji when they were asked who your Guru is by the Sadhs Guru Nanak Dev Jee answered sabadh guroo surath dhun chaelaa | The Shabad is the Guru, upon whom I lovingly focus my consciousness; I am the chaylaa, the disciple. The reason he calls Unhadh Shabad Guru is because this is the Sound which came out of Vaheguru Mokh, at the beginning of creation. And its this sound which we call Naam and through this we detach from this body and travel back to where God resides. thaeraa mukh suhaavaa jeeo sehaj dhun baanee | Your mouth is so Beautiful, and the Sound is your bani. (God has no mouth it’s just a metaphor for where the sound comes from, Unhadh means Unstruck meaning no cords) Ok These are verse from gurbani that talk about Charran gur kae charan man mehi dhiaae | Meditate within your mind on the Guru's Feet. charan kamal kar bohith karathae sehasaa dhookh n biaapai | Let the Lord's Lotus Feet be your Boat, so that pain and skepticism shall not touch you. Within these Pangtia the word feet is used, but guru shaibs has no physical feet, the last pangti is saying to let the Feet (charan) be your boat, gurbani is saying about what the Boat in spiritual terms means sathigur bohith har naav hai kith bidh charriaa jaae | The Boat of the True Guru is the Name of the Lord. How can we climb on board? That Naam has different names with in Gurbani, Charran, Unhadh, Shejh Dhun, Kinkiri Shabadh and Guru When gurbani tells us to make charran our asra (sanctuary/support) it’s talking about Naam gur saranaaee sukh lehehi anadhin naam dhiaae |1| rehaao | In the Sanctuary of the Guru, peace is found, meditating on the Naam night and day. ||1||Pause|| naanak naam dhiaaeeai sabhanaa jeeaa kaa aadhaar |4|7|40| O Nanak, meditate on the Naam, the Name of the Lord, the Support of all beings. ||4||7||40|| Edit.. I just wanted to add that this covers Seva of the hands and feet, but not the Mind, this is called Seva of Guru jee, if anyone was wondering what "Gur Kee seva is" gur kee saevaa kar piraa jeeo har naam dhiaaeae | Serve the Guru, O my dear soul; meditate on the Lord's Name.

Fair enough, just hard to sense the sarcasm over the interwebz

Pretty Much, Sants duty is to do Akath Katha, on how to open the tenth door (Dasam Duaar) so there spirtual Avasta is written within Gurbani aavahu santh piaariho akath kee kareh kehaanee | Come, Beloved Saints, let us speak the Unspoken Speech of the Lord. kareh kehaanee akath kaeree kith dhuaarai paaeeai | He tells the story of the Unspoken speech, and tells Through which door will we find Him. giaan dhiaan dhun jaaneeai akath kehaavai soe | Giaan means Knowledge Dhiaan means Concentration (No involuntary thoughts) Dhun means Naam (aka Unhand Shabad this is 1st heard at the gates of God) Akath means Vaheguru (that which is indescribable) These are those who god chooses to spread Such (Truth) Bhai Gurdas also speaks about those who do Katha about God without having Seen or having Heard Vaheguru. sun sun aakhan aakh sunaaeiaa |2| The basis of talk about the Lord is simply hearsay (and not the first hand experience).(2) These are who you will find every where, ones who learn sakia and Gurbani and start telling us of Gurbani, but when it comes to explaining where Dasam Duaar is, or what is Unhadh Shabad, Brahm Jhoot, Naad, this is where they start uming are arring. Once you dont get a strait answer about the practical side of Sikhi, and how to achieve it yourself thats when you get up and leave. Hope this clears some of your doubts

Sorry to see you leave baji, your commonsensical reasoning, I think now then ever was needed, but hay this seems like cya later rather than good bye, so cya soon

Though i havent added all the other things which i have been told to do, the only time that Punj Choor stoped hassling me was after that routine, and your right about simran being continuous to drink amrit raas 24/7, though I know a few people on this avasta and have asked them about it. But thats not what i said if you read the first line, i stated what i have obtained, which is 1 of a few, but that one was engough to hit me in the face, with Omg all this is true, the reason that I linked that shabad is because ive come accross people who have said and believe that Amrit Raas isnt real, interms of it being somthing God sends to this body for the mind/body to drink. I haven't reached the avasta of drinking amrit all the time.

Ive not heard anyone from Damdami Taksal, state that they teaching Shastar Vidya, as for other people teaching it, yea maybe but none i know of are within the Uk, india is another matter.

Guru bani says those who have seen God and can hear God (unhadh Shabad) we should kiss there feet as they are the most beloved Sikhs of the Guru. ko aan milaavai aj mai pir mael milaaveae | If only someone would come today and unite me in Union with my Beloved. ho jeeo karee this vitto cho khanneeai jo mai piree dhikhaaveae | I would cut my living body into four pieces for anyone who shows me my Beloved. Guru Raam Das jinee maeraa piaaraa raaviaa thin peeshai laag firaao | I follow in the footsteps of those who enjoy the Love of my Beloved. kar minnath kar jodharree mai prabh milanai kaa chaao |1| I beg of them, I implore them; I have such a yearning to meet God! ||1|| This is a touchy subject as there have been many fake Sants, Sadhs, but if you do happen to find one True Gur Mukh this is what Guru Shiab say he offers them. Now thats said how do you know how to judge whether that person is who he/she says they are I.e hear/See Vaheguru, simple before you believe them ask for them to allow you to hear Unhadh Shabad or if this is to much for you to do, then stay in there sangat and follow what they preach and through there teachings you should be to practically get to the same level they are on. This is how to do Parkh (Test) of anyone claiming to be a Sant or Sadh, and if they say there SAT GURU... them bring to them a dead animal or fly and ask them to bring it back to life, as only sat guru can bring life back in to the Dead. sathigur maeraa maar jeevaalai | My True Guru kills and revives.

@ As Kaal has put it, he is right God is out of the reach of every other religion and faith, it’s not sad just that Vaheguru took form in Guru Nanak, not that God didnt send Gurmukhs Brahm Giaanis before,I know me and Kaal differ on this view, but now we have the eternal form of Vaheguru in Joth Saroop Guru Granth Shaib Jee, Kaals overall explanation of Such (Truth) is right But back to tangible proof, Guru Kirpa Naal I have access to something called Atam Raas is similar to Amrit Raas, but a lower form, God has made a Food for the mind it’s called Amrit raas, Har Raas, Amrit Raas, Brahm Raas anmrith ras peeaa gur sabadhee ham naam vittahu kurabaan |1| Through the Word of the Guru's Shabad, I drink in the Ambrosial Essence; I am a sacrifice to the Naam. ||1|| maajh mehalaa 5 | Maajh, Fifth Mehl: anmrith naam sadhaa niramaleeaa | The Ambrosial Naam, the Name of the Lord, is eternally pure. sukhadhaaee dhookh biddaaran hareeaa | The Lord is the Giver of Peace and the Dispeller of sorrow. avar saadh chakh sagalae dhaekhae man har ras sabh thae meethaa jeeo |1| I have seen and tasted all other flavors, but to my mind, the Subtle Essence of the Lord is the sweetest of all. ||1|| jo jo peevai so thripathaavai | Whoever drinks this in, is satisfied. amar hovai jo naam ras paavai | Whoever obtains the Sublime Essence of the Naam becomes immortal. naam nidhaan thisehi paraapath jis sabadh guroo man voothaa jeeo |2| The Treasure of the Naam is obtained by one whose mind is filled with the Word of the Guru's Shabad. ||2|| jin har ras paaeiaa so thripath aghaanaa | One who obtains the Sublime Essence of the Lord is satisfied and fulfilled. jin har saadh paaeiaa so naahi ddulaanaa | One who obtains this Flavor of the Lord does not waver. thisehi paraapath har har naamaa jis masathak bhaageethaa jeeo |3| One who has this destiny written on his forehead obtains the Name of the Lord, Har, Har. ||3|| har eikas hath aaeiaa varasaanae bahuthaerae | The Lord has come into the hands of the One, the Guru, who has blessed so many with good fortune. this lag mukath bheae ghanaerae | Attached to Him, a great many have been liberated. naam nidhaanaa guramukh paaeeai kahu naanak viralee ddeethaa jeeo |4|15|22| The Gurmukh obtains the Treasure of the Naam; says Nanak, those who see the Lord are very rare. This is what avasta Guru Shaib has blessed me. Through Dedication to Guru, Guru blesses his children with gifts, Like Amrit Raas, Roum Roum, Unhand Shabad and so on. This isnt exclusive too selected people, Guru Shaibs have said, that God is forever calling us (Mun) home, (Nijh Gaar) sadhaa bulaaeeai mehal n aavai kio kar dharageh seejhai | He is always invited, but he does not go to the Mansion of the Lord's Presence. How shall he be accepted in the Court of the Lord? So to get to where I am is quite simple, give up Hankaar, give up the attachment to flavors, includes alcohol, meat, smoking, drugs, (if you dont already do this, then its fantastic) Give up arguments. As according to Sat Guru Vaheguru is always sending amrit raas anmrith sadhaa varasadhaa boojhan boojhanehaar | The Ambrosial Nectar rains down continually; realize this through realization guramukh jinaee bujhiaa har anmrith rakhiaa our dhaar | Those who, as Gurmukh, realize this, keep the Lord's Ambrosial Nectar enshrined within their hearts. har anmrith peevehi sadhaa rang raathae houmai thrisanaa maar | They drink in the Lord's Ambrosial Nectar, and remain forever imbued with the Lord; they conquer egotism and thirsty desires. But due to us not having any knowledge of this, Gurbani says this is our Avasta eis dhaehee andhar panch chor vasehi kaam krodh lobh mohu ahankaaraa | Within this body dwell the five thieves: sexual desire, anger, greed, emotional attachment and egotism. anmrith loottehi manamukh nehee boojhehi koe n sunai pookaaraa | They plunder the Nectar, but the self-willed manmukh does not realize it; no one hears his complaint. I obtained this Avasta by a strict rehath which was told to me by Gur Mukhs, its 3½ hours simran a day, 2½ in the morning and an hour in the evening. Gur Mukhs never told what avasta i would be blessed with as he said Guru Shaib do Thool (weight up your deeds/abiaas) according to this he blesses his children with Avastas, so you may get a higher avasta than me, only Guru Jee knows. guramukh thol thuolaaeisee sach tharaajee thol | As Gurmukh, they are weighed and measured, in the balance and the scales of Truth.

I never demanded it, man read what people are typing instead of reading what you want to hear, i think you just have a misconception of what reasonable Athests believe.

Ajeet? I dont think he asked whether i believe or not, but for these kinda of debates on whether God is true or not is exactly what Guru shaibs did when he came to earth interms of qulling the miths Hindus held also Muslim though according to Guru Nanak they were half way there in believing in 1 God, its just that we Sikhs are to humble or scared off opening the book of whether what we believe is true or not, due to the fact once its open, it may not be reconcilable. Far as my Belief im 100% sure of a there's a being that created him self. But I have tangible proof.

Richard has said he doesn't believe in God, as there's no proof in favour to date, he says its like saying just because you cant disprove God doesnt mean its True, same as you cant disprove Thor or Zeus or the Spaghetti monster.

All i have to say is Niddar Singh is awesome, but his views are miles away from True Sikhi, like learning from a Monk, you go there for the War Art not the Philosophy

Well its called, if your strong enough in your own belief then a little abit of a debate wouldn't shake your foundations. As for the title singh, No its not just Sikhs who use that surname, originally used by Hindu Kshatriya warriors and kings, long before the SIkh nation was born. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singh

Not read his book to my disappointment, but I've watched many debates, Christopher Hitchens a Hero of mine, guys a Beast intellect

Then maybe get a Doctors diagnosis of his Health problems then make a statement like, "break his legs" and if he's not in as bad health, according to you, for someone to sit on the floor. This is just a personal issue, Its cause its Badal, its Wrong... Equality right..

Your absolutely right, the post above which was edited was around 20 lines long about how what alias is misplaced about what Gurbani says about Charran and Thoord, my fault i didn’t rewrite it but, simply putting it, seva is to humble the mind, rubbing dirt does not help in you progression, is actually a health risk if you put in a glass and drank it, so i advice against that, if there’s any interest then I’ll do a small write up on what Gurbani says about Charan and Thoord.

wht uz unz blaad iz gotz eryz wrdz lik

Mans a jewel in the fight against injustice

Should ask him/her that question.

Quick question, is there 1 school of thought which is Sikhi, or is there many, and did our 10 Gurus in your opinion have differing understandings of what God sent to them, or was it the same, if its the same why do we have a differing view for Guru Shiabs Sikhi Not 1.

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@Kaal, SIkhs have been given Gurmantar which is Vaheguru but Guru Nanak says "all the names which are in praise of you i go balhaar" (sacrifice), so what i meant by Christians doing simran is that they can chose any manter and Jaap that. As for why i made that post, was too clear-up what Gurbani says about our routine, is that we are to wake early do simran then our Bani and then Swass Swass simran all day @Shadow my intention wasnt to be rude, just as blunt as posible so that there arnt any grey areas, I kinda feel i have to give my opinions on certain post Kaal makes as he has a different view on what Gurbani is saying to me, he is a follower of Bhai Randeer singh (nothing is wrong with that) its just that im more inclined to Believe the words off Sant Isher singh over Bhai shaib, so am just giving the original poster another view point, its sad that theres 2 or more conflicting veiws in Sikhi but hay thats where we are, and ill do my best to give the information on Sikhi which is told By Sant Jee and other Gur Mukhs i have learnt from. Sorry if i offended as i didnt mean too

Doesnt say anywhere in Gurbani that you need to go back and forth between sukhmani shaib, you have to remember that before Guru Shiabs there wasnt sukhmani shaib, also the common sense of this is, that even Christians can meet Vaheguru too, all they need to is Simran and Simran only, so i would just stick to what gurbani says. Which Swass Girass saying Vahe Guru with your tongue and listening to it, thats the technique that Guru jee has said, "is the work of his Sikhs"

Wow didnt take more then 2 weeks for people to forget, Just shocked =/

Well said Baji, any attachment with Maya includes children family Wife ect is nass waan (limited) Guru Shaib says if you have love for your Family, wife, children you should meet them in Sun Mandal, thats true love according to Sat Guru