proactive

Just a great counter argument,

That is the lamest excuse ever. So he was MAKING INDIRA PAY FOR THE DAMAGE. Are you for real? The only ones who made Indira pay for what she did were Shaheed Beant Singh and Shaheed Satwant Singh. They did in the true spirit of the Khalsa but I assume you would want to see the certificates of their Bhagti beyond you have an opinion on what they did. What a joke. As for the rebuilding of the Akal Takht this was necessitated because of the anger felt by the Sikh nation that a GADDAR'S hand had been used to repair it with money from the Tyrant who had bombarded it with tanks. I don't agree with it, they should have looked for a way to re-sanctify the Akal Takht by a symbolic cleansing of it. But just because they did wrong does not exonerate the GADDAR from his GADDARI. The same GADDAR who subsequently had to beg for admittance into the Khalsa form the same 'British inspired' SGPC that he had been badmouthing for years and refusing to accept it, after he lived the life of a TANKHAIYA FOR DECADES. I can only assume you were either a kid in nappies or not even born in 1984 so you cannot understand what the anger was of all Sikhs at that time, that a Nihang Jathedar claiming to a representative of the Khalsa Panth would willingly collude with the greatest tyrant the Sikh nation had faced in the 20th century. It's so easy to re-write history and give lame excuses that only starry eyed kids would believe to justify what was the greatest GADDARI that someone who claimed to a Jathedar has ever done.

This is the type of reaction you get from brain dead people who will believe that someone is a Mahapurkh without even bothering to see what that person has done which has elevated him to such a position. The person this guy thinks is a Mahapurkh is someone who allowed himself to be used by Indira Gandhi and who was doing 'kar sewa' against the wishes of the entire Sikh people while the army which had murdered hundreds of pilgrims were walking around wearing shoes and smoking and drinking and providing him protection. LET THAT SINK IN. Knowing how the Nihangs of old used to treat anyone even threatening to smoke in their presence, the fact that this 'mahapurkh' was ok with Indian army walking around smoking just shows how much of a Gaddar he was.

Sorry but these types of titles are bandied about like they are going out of fashion. Even the Gaddar Santa Singh is claimed to a Mahapurkh these days.

yes, because he was the only one that was there and the thousands of other people at the complex temporarily went blind and even if they gave their eyewitness accounts they were biases and only Baba Sahib Singh Kaladhari was the paragon of truth.

Any evidence to show that Nihangs were in charge of Akal Takht in 1920 is all that is required. We are not talking about 1620 or 1720 or 1820.. we are talking about 1920, a time where newspapers were available, the people who witnessed the event were able to write books about it,... and all you have is NIHANG ORAL TRADITION. You see how idiotic the na.ng position is. This ridiculous claim is only matched by the claim of the Chief Na.ng wally to be the LAST SIKH WARRIOR. Looks like he's watched too much KARATE KID and KARATE KID 2!

I commented on it because you gave his instagram as a reference to the event. I don't usually engage with these na.ng types who promote the usual na.ng gibberish.

That instagram also claims-; The East Indian Gazetteer of 1828 states the following about Takhat Akal Bunga , “In this sacred place is lodged, under a silken canopy, the book of laws written by the Gooroo ; and from 500 to 600 Akalies, or priests, who belong to the temple and are supported by contributions, perform its functions” The only quote I could find was this on Vol 1 page 28 under Amretsir Amretsir, or the pool of immortality, from which the town takes its name, is a basin of about 135 pace square, built of burnt bricks; in the centre of which stands a temple, dedicated to Gooro Govind Singh, In this sacred place is lodged, under a silken canopy, the book of laws, written by that Gooroo. There are from five to 600 akalies, or priests, belonging to this temple, who are supported by contributions As you can see from the quote, the actual gazetteer quote is about the whole complex and not the Akal Bunga. Note how the 'scholar' has not quoted the lines which state that it is about Harmandir Sahib being the centre of the complex. Akal Takht is to one side of the complex. The quotes also states wrongly that the Guru Granth Sahib is a book of laws but also states that 'the book of laws' rather than 'books of laws' had this been about Akal Takht because we know that both the Guru Granth and the Dasam Granth had parkash there. This is something most of these new 'scholars' try by first not giving page numbers so that their references can be checked and then omitting lines to mislead anyone reading their statements.

How can you have an oral tradition of an event that happened in 1920?? The event occurred in the full light of history, it happened at the our holiest place where thousands of our people were present and where anyone who lived in the vicinity of the Durbar Sahib would have known had taken place. There is no dispute about the existence of Nihangs in charge of Akal Takht in 1820s but is in dispute is the fairy tale of Baba Sahib Singh Kaladhari being the Akal Takht Jathedar in 1920 and the Akalis using women to eject him from the Akal Takht. It is true that one of the women in the Akali jathas did assault him and she was restrained by the other Akalis. The fact is the Pujaris after fleeing the complex tried to incite the Sikhs in the villages by saying that the complex had been taken over by lower castes. They went to the complex armed and ready to eject them and when it was found that it was the Pujaris who had fled and it was the Akalis had taken over then these people returned to their villages. The Pujaris had also spread their lies to the Nihangs who then came and took over Akal Takht, It was then that the clash took place. You can choose to believe the 'oral tradition' and lies from the 'last sikh warrior' or you can actually do some research. The instagram you linked is pretty bereft of any evidence on the event and apart from claiming that the reformers accounts were biased but Nihang oral tradition which has no evidence to back it up is reliable. The lack of evidence is made up for idiotic statements such as .. 1. After establishing several Chhaonis across Punjab, The Nihangs finally came back to Takhat Akal Bunga. Sadly, the Akal Takht’s Nihangs became victims of the Gurdwara Reform. So the Nihangs just walked into the complex sometime between the 1850s and 1920s and became custodians of the Akal Takht while there was an all powerful Sarbrah appointed by the British in charge? Any idea what the Akal Takht Jathedar was doing in 1919 when the Sarbrah Arur Singh was honouring General Dyer at the complex and commit blasphemy by accepting Dyer's joking request that if he took Amrit he should be allowed to keep smoking.

What this BS merchant is implying is that the SGPC would have to give 6 annas out of each rupee of the donations they received to the British government! As there used to be 16 annas in a rupee he is saying that nearly 38% of the donations used to given to the British!

The SGPC was the best that we could have achieved at that time. When times change then our institutions and organisations need to be changed as well. Either you reform these organisations or they become corrupt, wither and die. No one is denying that the SGPC as well as the Akali Dal have been corrupted mainly due to one family, the Badals. There is a nefarious agenda which raises its ugly head every few months when some innocent looking question is asked about the founding of the SGPC. This is aimed at advancing the agenda and conspiracy theories of the 'last sikh warrior' Niddar nan.g. Probably one of his followers spreading his BS. Who in their right mind would think some deluded Nihang in 1998 would know what happened in 1920. His BS is easy to counter, there are newspapers and books written by both supporters as well as detractors of the Akali movement. Until Niddar came up with his BS, there has never been anything written about some Baba Kaladhari being thrown out of the Akal Takht. For one, the Nihangs had already lost control of Akal Takht after the Shaheedi of Akali Phoola Singh. Their centre had sifted to Anandpur Sahib. The main Nihang centre in Amritsar was Burj Baba Phoola Singh. When the Pujaris saw the strength of the Sikh opposition against their refusal to accept degh from the 'low castes', they ran away and they tried to bring in the Nihangs to help them from Burj Baba Phoola Singh by telling them that anti-social elements had captured the Durbar Sahib. This was what led to the clash there. And as for the latest BS that the Akalis used women so that the Nihangs wouldn't attack them. These Akalis were majority former soldiers who had fought in the trenches of WW1. I doubt they needed to use women out of fear of the Nihangs. The other Akalis such as Kartar Singh Jhabbar had a history of doing parchar in the Bar area of Nankana Sahib where he faced opposition from the Muslims. Many a time he would have to defend himself and in the process smash a few heads.

Have some shame, at least try and research the movement before your accept that Nihang's BS. The creation of the SGPC and the wrestling back of the Gurdwaras from the British supported Mahants came not though some underhand agreement which this Nihang seems to have dreamed up. The Akali struggle was won after so much suffering which the Sikhs had to undergo . The Akalis not only faced the Mahants who had resources to violently defend their control of the Gurdwaras as Mahant Narainu did at Nankana Sahib but the British government as well as the Hindus who could see that loss of the Gurdwaras to Sikh control would serious impact their 'Sikhs are Hindus' narrative. In the movement over 40,000 Sikhs were jailed, over 400 lost their lives and over 2,000 were injured some very seriously. Thousands of ex-soldiers who had joined the movement had their hard earned pensions forfeited. 16 Lakh rupees were levied in fines and lands of the Akalis were seized, 700 Lambardars and Zaildars lost their jobs. The movement scared the sh1t of of M K Gandhi so much so that he wrote in his newspaper that the military formations of the Akalis were scaring the law abiding Hindus in the villages. The Akali movement was fought in the full light of history. Newspapers as well as the autobiographies of those who took part are all available. There is no excuse for ignorance and blindly accepting some Nihang's deluded ramblings about a conspiracy between the Akalis and the British. As for the events of the takeover of Durbar Sahib in 1920, this has been discussed on another thread years ago, just do a search.

People want a change but with Rajewal and his cronies all they will get is more of the same corruption and backstabbing. Its still a few months before the election, I expect more and more disclosures to come out which will show Punjab the real face of this sell out.

I think it depends on personal experiences. The Hindu Khatri is not averse to the fake smile and the curses behind your back. I remember this elderly Hindu Khatri aunty type who was so friendly with me at work over a decade ago. Later it transpired that she and her sister and a Muslim woman who also worked in the same place were sharing Sardarji jokes on the work email system and she accidently copied me in by mistake. I made sure she and the others got disciplined and received written warnings on their HR records. The HR guy tried to get me to just accept an apology from her and the others rather than go through with the full disciplinary action because he said that all of them had been having sleepless nights because of the stress of the complaint...lol

Remember how quickly the Sikh youth were disowned by the farm leaders the same evening of the 26th of Jan from the Singhu border stage, this was what was also going on in the background. One of the farm leaders (my bet is on Rajewal) sent a list of Sikh youth to the Delhi police telling them to arrest them. Rajewal was also the one who was sending secret letters to Amit Shah requesting that the farm laws just be amended while on the stage he was demanding that the farm laws be repealed. Now he thinks he can become CM of Punjab by leading his new party of comrades and sell outs.

The Hindu Khatris are the most anti-Sikh of all Punjabi Hindus even more than the Punjabi Brahmins. From what I have noted they because they have a history of intermarriage with the Sikh Khatris have always promoted the 'Sikhs are Hindus' narrative. Khushwant Singh who was a Khatri used the experiences of his own family such as intermarriage with Hindus as if it was a widespread custom among Sikhs while it was only among Sikh Khatris who were a miniscule minority of Sikhs. This is why the average Hindu of north India thinks that Sikhs and Hindus intermarried regularly. The Hindu Khatris are also the ones who on social media will claim that their uncle, brother, sister etc is married to a Sikh as if this somehow gives him the divine right to promote his BS views on Sikhi.

His family has been a disgrace to Sikhi since the days of Ala Singh going against the Khalsa Dal by paying allegiance to Abdali. The ONLY member of his family who did anything positive for the Panth was Maharaja Yadvindra Singh in 1947 for aligning with the Akalis and providing refuge for the Sikhs of Pothohar and using his army to help the Jathas to secure East Punjab. Amarinder Singh's grandson married the grand daughter of Maharaja Karan Singh of Kashmir (descendant of Gulab Singh Dogra) a few years ago. As if his family needed any more traitorous blood.

The fact that you actually know that something is being done should be enough. The fact that the Indian state is using all its power to sabotage the referendum should be all you need to know that it is achieving something even if it just informing foreign governments that there is an active movement for Sikh independence. It's quite trendy among some to badmouth this effort but Pannun and those behind the referendum have done more to bring the Khalistan movement into focus abroad and in India than all those old uncles who set up Khalistan organisations abroad after 1984 and yet did and achieved zilch in 40 years.

Watch the video of Bhai Baldeep Singh where he destroys these two mischief making kids who think only they have enough knowledge to dismiss the Sikh contribution to the Punjab gharana. I suggest you stop bigging up these two kids who look like to be following the path of the Niddar Na.ng.

First you said this -; And then you wrote this-; So from saying we have to rely on others and we are doing nothing to then saying we are not doing enough! You should own up to your ignorance. We don't need to be chasing dodgy so-called descendants of Bhai Mardana, we should be producing our own scholars of Kirtan which the institutes you alluded to are already doing. The £20K these Mardana Project guys managed to get donated to them will be used to confuse Sikhs and try and eradicate the Sikh contribution to Kirtan and project these dodgy Mirasasi as the true heirs of our traditions.

Here is someone who has SIKH SAROOP who has been preserving our musical heritage and who has taken back his support of the Mardana Project.

Is that all you got from my post? What are your views on the true nature of these Mirasis who make money from Kirtan and yet do a kurli after they sing it? If you didn't know that already then you are ignorant and should not even be commenting of this issue, if you knew about it and yet are willing to gloss over this then that makes it even worse.

I've seen their videos. They seem like usual liberal dimwits to be honest. They love to highlight the fact that Mirasis used to do Kirtan in Durbar Sahib pre-1947 but do not delve too deeply into why we should again allow those who follow a Manmat in their daily lives to do Kirtan in our most holiest of Gurdwaras? These Mirasis do kurliyan after the sing Kirtan so that they can 'clean' their mouths after they have sung 'kafir' verses. These dimwits of Mardana project gloss over this fact and the gora guy even tries to justify this because they live in an Islamic society. As as I said total liberal dimwits.

I think there is a ban on Muslims entering Nankana Sahib Gurdwara instituted by the Government and this could also be the case for other historic Gurdwaras in Pakistan. This is due to the security situation there. There is no doubt that many Muslims in Pakistan are moving away from Islam for a number of reasons. I sometimes watch Harris Sultan's youtube channel and although he is anti all religions, he does say that no all religions are as bad as Islam. Many Muslims write to him and tell him that they have left Islam due to his channel. As he said in one of his videos that the ONE thing that breaks many Pakistani Muslims adherence to Islam is when they come across the sex slaves issue. The vast majority of Muslims in Pakistan may have attended Madrassas and may even be able to recite the Quran but VERY FEW actually understand the meaning of the verses let alone read the Hadiths which contain the sayings and actions of Mohammed which inform Islamic law. They look to the Mullahs at the Mosque or the religious TV channels to explain the verses of the Quran. Due to the unearned and unwarranted praise that Muslims heap on Mohammed, claiming him to the 'mercy to mankind' and the 'perfect man' most Pakistani Muslims start from the position that Mohammed is unmatched in history. But that fake facade soon crumbles when they are taught what he actually did in his life such as allowing captured women to be raped by his followers as well as murdering the family of one Jewish woman and then marrying her the same night. Pakistanis like all of people of south Asia have a honour culture. If they are presented with the example that say if the Indian army invaded and captured Pakistan and then proceeded to murder all the men and then kept their wives, mothers and daughters as sex slave how would they feel? This comes as a shock to many especially as they have never been told this about Mohammed and they understand that such a person is very far from being a 'mercy to mankind'. Once the bubble of Mohammed's uniqueness and prophethood is burst then all the rest of the limitations of Islam slip into place. Now compare the character of Mohammed with the Gurus. If Pakistan Muslims are presented with a comparison of Mohammed who allowed his men to rape women and Guru Gobind Singh who forbade the rape of captured women in battle and made sure that they were sent back to their side in safety then it would be interesting to know what effect this will have on the normal Pakistani Muslim. Add to this the fact that even our enemies such as Qazi Nur Mohammed praised this aspect of our rules of warfare even though he referred to us as Sag or dogs. If we want to shatter the hold of Islam on the Pakistani Muslim and bring him/her to Sikhi then this is one aspect that we need to highlight.

The money grabbing reputation that Sikhs have got among non-Sikhs is due to Bhappas in the cities across India. The first time that the people at the Delhi borders got to know true Sikhi was when the farmers set up camps there. Before that the only Sikhs they had experience of were tight fisted Bhappas. There are over 600,000 Sikhs in Delhi, if a few thousand Sikh farmers could have such a deep and positive impact on the people around Delhi then why haven't 600,000 Sikhs in Delhi not had a positive impact on the non-Sikhs of Delhi. This is something to think about. It's all very well to give out langar in the Gurdwara but then when these non-Sikhs experience the Bhappas in their daily lives then any positive impact of the Gurdwara is quickly undone.