bijli kaur

if the deleted article is trieing to state sikhs are hindus then why do indian books on the subject matter ganged up with the indian state media declare sikhs in such regd as " sikh extremists "? why not hindu extremists ? surely if they wre hindus it shud be stating logically hindu extremists who feel they are different. Sikhi to me at least is 100% indepdant of all faiths. But for example sake as the first deleted article was trieing to suggest that sikhs are hindus therefore "no ground for a khalistan", lets just think for a moment. Ok now what? sikhs are discriminated in their own land, hunted, murdered, massacred, their culture wiped out, women raped, where are the values enshrined in democracy? where is the justice?Going by the standard "we r One" the whole world is one that doesnt mean races religions cultures are not wiped out in history as has been prooved in punjab in the last 20 years . The UN itself has a mandate on oppressed minorities, on a moral stance sikhs have every right to ask for their land. Sikhs are no ang of hinduism, but an ang of all humanity but even if sum thinks we r that doesnt disproove the right for a sikh administered land to gaurantee the safety of sikhs, their welfare, economy, culture, language and control of their destiny when it has been ruined for the past 50 years in different hands not just for sikhs but for the whole of punjab that has been looted and robbed blind by politicians. Dalits on official records are declared as hindus yet are subject to many things sikhs r, what does their being hindu proove? NOTHING. If it is their wish to chalk out their own destiny that is their wish, what does this" h indu" tag show? Kurds are muslims their nation has been split into turkey, iran and iraq and suffer genocide, cultural and linguistic genocide human rights abuses at the hands of co religionists muslims do the kurds not have a right to chalk their own destiny as they wish or remain resigned to their grim fate with their fellow muslims ???what does their being the same religion as their oppressors proove? NOTHING Croats and serbs were th same religion did that stop croatia forming?what did their being christian proove? NOTHING if there is no value for human life should not humans have the right to choose their path and future? In Fact the case becomes even more stronger as one based on values that transcend religious loyalty. In the case of sikhs it is human rights, values, protection of sikh culture, justice and development betterment of all punjabis. Dont mistake the issue, sikhs are 100% their own they are not angs or part of hindus or muslims, the examples above show that even if they were that doesnt proove a thing when it comes to having the right to governing themselves.

part 2 reply 19841985 1990s raids genocides on sikhs speak volumes themselves on the need for a homeland that needs to be run by sikhs to ensure their safety. Sikhs do not need to proove this "seperate identity" tag as a primary reason for khalistan just look back to modern history thats more than enough evidence. That homeland may be in future a sikh homeland but what it means by that is a country run by sikhs to ensure their own survival, of course it doesnt mean kick the hindu punjabis out who are just as punjabi as anyone else . But sikhs need political power. The answer to all these manifest problems is a khalistan. To all my veerjis and bhenjis who are into khalistan and not yet into sikhi too much, dont worry, keep up ur strentgh dont loose sight of your convictions, its people like you who have so much to say to this world and make a stand where lazy people like me fail. Its good you have come this far, at the khalsa humans rights archives in holy bones leicster where i checked a stand displaying profiles of shaheeds out of 2000 odd profiles from 350 to 400 were monai veers. But coming this far and walking forward requires us to become sikhs practically of the Guru for a Gurus gurmat system to be estabished in punjab politically. All the problems stated above including corruption of the punjabi community such as films, drugs, dating, affairs, caste which is very prevelant in punjab sikhi is the need of the day. We can go as far as fighting for a khalistan but we each need the ideals to carry that onto the political platform for a strong united community. For punjab to be sufficient each one of us need to become God orientated people and raise sai ntly children and train them into politics not for selfishness but for the betterment of the panth so they may one day network with each other at higher levels to ensure the governance of their land and community doesnt become corrupt and avoids the "rat race " or "sole kingships". the case of khalistan is there as more and more sikhs wake up to slavery. I read the first article on this thread and noticed how the author made it a pivot point that the basic reason of khalistan is based on seperate identity, that reason is very minute compared to the wrongdoings which sikhs have had to endure sikhs do not need to proove seperatness that itself makes sikhs look like their jumping on a superiority bandwagon when that is not the case. The article which charges "khalistani terrorism" in that article has ignored " indian state terrorism"which triggered off all reflexes and genocide of what we know as 250 000 calculated genocide of innocent sikh men women children in a systemtical manner , but other estimates put the toll at 1.2 million. There is no hard fast way to record a genocide in a large third world country where the authoritiesare not willing to help. The article is very one sided sure there may have been a few triggerhappy individuals but by and large it was sikhs who suffered 2 decade long pogroms that drove them to demand a khalistan. When army generals circulate data that all amritdharis are dangerous and must be killed does that not amount to state terrorism to hunt a person because of their faith? why did the first article miss that? finally khalistan is not a simple "sikh v hindu " issue. Sure it would be opposed by many non punjabis outside punjab who majority happen to be classified on state register hindus, but then again the term "hindu" is very vague in a religious sense. My hindu friend returned from ludhiana and told me how the police randomly picked up a guy and demanded pay backs to free him of 3 lakh. Within 6 hours the father of the boy called a panchayat and raised over 7000 demonstrators to free his son and gheroed the station, on the way they exposed what the police were doing in the chowla bazaar sector which gathered momentum. (this incident occured in 2001)To avoid further exposure the police had to free the son. The mood for over 3 weeks remained " raaj karega khalsa" along the civil lines area of ludhiana many of the demonstartors included sikhs and hindu punjabis alike. This is no longer 1984 where congressi elements seperate and engineer divides. People of punjab are suffereing regardless from corruption, job losses, police heavy handedness etc. my friends own relatives were telling her how only a khalsa raaj can sort out the mess punjab is facing because they are fed up of being robbed in high taxes, police harrassment etc. Imagine that coming from a hindu inside punjab! Then her relatives one of whom is a bank worker was invited to poone district for a bankers meeting, this guy had a hindu name, a hindu background, yet they taunted and mimicked his accent because he was punjabi and throwing sardar jokes at him all because hes punjabi. they seem to have thought all punjabis are offsprings of sardars. Thats just 2 hindu punjabis i know of who support the litany raj karega khalsa there mayb b many more . The reality of khalistan issue in terms of religious boundaries has changed from the 80s, at that time state sponsorted terrorism ensured nobody heard the sikhs voice and made sikhs look like they were anti hindu. As time goes on punjab ends up in dangerous hands corruption, this is now affecting everybody living there regardless of what religion they are and exposing more than the authorities bargained for. Asking for solutions most of the alternatives to a khalistan are just a temporary fix. the rejuvination and reality of the religio political dual establishment would be taking shape sooner or later. The only way to prevent that is to give fair play justice to punjabis at all levels and dimensions which is not happening to this date and i doubt will hence the call for a khalsa raaj will increase in time.Itsnothing to do with "special treatment" as the media claims but more to do with justice in every sense against a brutal corrupt regime similar to the british raj.

part 1 reply World over sikhs dont have it easy, discrimination in jobs due to visible appearance , sure many sikhs are doing well but in what proportion to the sikh population of respective settlements?, put aside token of esteem positions. overall we study for degrees go into the job market and have to settle for less, wages, positions, than our white ( or brahmin khattri if in india) counterparts,thereby living in an unequal system. the point isnt "thats reality", the point is Guru jis matt counters this gruesome system. A khalistan ideally be based on equality where a man woman works hard for their career they should be rewarded back equally. Media bias portrayals of sikh faith. In punjab the water is distributed free of charge to other states unchecked to what quantities? whilst water in industrial heavily populated areas areas like amritsar ludhiana are so pulluted that chemical tablets induced to treat dirty water recycled 10 times often increase the risk of side effects infections and diseases. There is no sikh punjabi panel to check how much water goes free to other states. A khalistan is the answer than let punjabs water supply be robbed. Enough fresh clean water should be distributd all over punjab evenly for crops, home usage, sewage treatment networks not water thats been used 10 times. Then when the economy grows Guru Kirpa khalistan would be strong enough to help others and fulfill its seva for humanity, but that is impossible whilst it is being diverted to other states with just small amount to punjab by current higher authorities who are nto accountable to anybody. punjabis controlling the usage of their fair sh are of riparian water is a vital point for thgem to be able to help others in future. french turban banning- sikhs have to ask indian pm for help, the same party jan sangh bajrang dal that raped killed battered sikh kids women jus 19 years ago. Seems like sikhs have to battle their way in courts for everything. to wear a kara even in uk just 20 years ago. In a khalistan a sikh and members of all religions would not be intimidated and be free to wear their kakaars and insignia, as well as a soveriegn nation would be able directly to talk to countries like france. Sikhs would not be exposed in society as a joke in every single film brainwashing the masses, they will be free. Understanding of a sikh country would then enable the rest of the world to grasp what and who a sikh is. In punjab the ex chief minister a bjp rep in a sikh dastaar " badal" has been investigated by the Punjab Vigilence Buraeu for several months and filed a charge sheet siphoned off $17 million dollars in his seat in just 5 years of power. $17 million is 784 million indian rupees of hard earned cash sweat and labour of taxes punjabis payed to better their lives has gone into private pockets. Badal holdings jointly are worth $1 billion this area of his assets have yet to be investigated. Imagine where that money could have gone to better punjab compared to sikhs migrating from punjab now. Punjabis are sweating and toiling like slaves in a corrupt system. A Punjabi Raaj in the past from the era of Gurbaksh Singh and Maharaja Ranjit Singh transfered democracy where the poor were oppressed were distributed land for their betterment, more dmeocractic power was allotted to individuals this is the true sign of a khalsa which equals sovereign. Punjab requires urgent development in education why does the state gov instead allot punjabs surplas of taxation treasury to chandigarh? whos toiled for it? Punjabis are not recieving fully the benefits of education, if punjabis had a nation of 20 million of their own , a daswand contribution from each family combined with profits and loans from reputable industrial trade already existing in punjab such as scrap metals conversions, leathers, machine parts distributions, grains, cotton mill productions, imported en mass to western economies could be enough to provide education free for all of punjab which would then take punjabis to new heights in research and devlopment of their own as well as creating jobs and new sectors in different fields. The problem at the moment is punjabs taxes are not even always going back to punjabis when their not lined up in private coffers but sent to neighbouring chandigarh. The sweat and labour of a singh in amritsar value in monetary tax is handed on a plate free as a grant in chandigarh. The banking system need to be in responsible hands for development aid, loans, for setting up bussinesses but without loan shark rates. the current banking system of the western world is keeping humanity in the west enslaved through paying back double what you borrow to buy a house. thats extornionate and keeps a human enslaved much of their lifespan just paying back interest rates. Loan shark rates in punjab are prevelant, muslims have loans based on their religious doctrines in many countries which are far more fairer to their people. Maybe a common punjabi treasury should manage this sector and not privatise to prevent high rates, and encourage growth at collective level and hold its accounts public for the community. Maybe the dream of fair play in politics is not real at this moment which again is answred only if sikhs actually follow their faith collectively en masse and produce spiritual leaders in whos hands power can be entrusted.

just to clarify for mandeep its not a rumour i watched the awards event sanjay dutt clearly made that comment. It didnt seem much like an intended joke for he wasnt exactly smiling or laffing when he said it but more in a ridiculing way. It wasnt percieved much as a joke at the event either the crowds were not in fits of laughter, the cam immidietly pointed at stars for their reactions juhi chawla shah ruck etc they had a stunned frozen look on their faces then eyes just wondered around the room. perhaps some of you have a point sikhs dont exactly have a gud image out there in india i mean turn on the tv set you have these stupid bhangra songs with sikhs made to look like sweaty monkeys dancing and comingout with the ridicolous bruahh with a spray of saliva coming out you see how their heads shake? eyes closed? head swinging side to side? . our own people make us look dumb. But How many times has sanjay dutt made a comment about muslims bin laden or brahmins? hes halfcaste himself , where has the spirit of jokes gone now? why do they allow jokes directed at one community and not at another? The industry is dominated by high caste brahmins and indian muslims whilst unfortunatly sikhs are the scapegoat nobody in a top board position to censor control when is a joke and when is it offensive? if there is they aint doin their job and shud be sacked! A joke can be a joke, but religious form coated ones arent, nor is such an event where film talents r celebrated a suitable place for that . Further reveals the attitude of sony tv, the controlling board and event organisers. i dont see them stopping their bias , power drunk, their aware of the power of mass media over people. I think more sikh sardars should enter the modelling arena in india to counter this negative image in bolly films. Even if every sikh on the planet signed a petition and presented it to a bolly director do you think their gonna care? they have a huge target audience of billion just in india, then films sold across pakistan, bangladesh, far east translated all over arab countries especially dubai for cheap entertainment. Im not sure how easy it is for sardars to enter film roles but they need some kind of a parralel platform where they can make an impact.

how do we know his kes r cut now? he might have grown em again , either way hel get caught with that nose and dodgy eyes like that u cant miss him.

maybe im wrong or perhaps fearing but can only speak from a viewpoint from england. 5000 pakistanis came here in a shortage of labour in the 60s, in the year 2003, they have merged themselves with new muslim groups serving as the patriotic hub of the islamic voice in britain and claim support of many hundreds of thousands such as al muhajiroun also operating under an umbrella community or ummah of 2.5 million something. The problem isnt primarily just numbers, but the demands their groups have vowing to take over the uk already planting the flag of islam over downing street, many areas in london are now dominated by muslim populations east south or north with huge numbers. The kind of youth being produced and the resurgance of wuhhabi sunnite islam is causing considerable racial tension leading to riots and racial segregation all over again. The kinds of demands these groups are not rooted from just fringe elements but within the ummah a direct example of friction caused between sikhs and muslims all over the uk on streets, colleges, unis, and murders and savage beating taking place, khalifa hut leaflets are just tip of the iceburg or targetting sikh girls, a lot more goes on that people dont always hear about. all this in a short span of 40 years from 5000 to 2.5 million. One cant just put it to the factor of competition " paks v sikhs" as muslim strongholds are mixed with indian muslims and pak muslim communitiies, in fact its blatently obvious an extreme form of religion is being revolutionised once the community has taken strength in numbers. i dread to think if in 20 years the same happens in punjab. i try not be racist or anti muslim, but i can only speak from experiences from what i have witnessed here. and yes sikhs and other asians also came here but are not purposely increasing their birth rates, or seeking domination here. southall and punjabi ghettoes are a result of racism that was incurred during the 70s and 80s. one can say well biharis arent capable of what happens here by some muslims or just came for a better life, but what if gujjar muslim farmers from up keep buying up land in punjab , as well as kashmiri insurgents move in from the same stocks of pakistanis kashmiris? Who would have thought bengali muslims would stand shoulder to shoulder with their co religionists from pakistan 20 years ago? who could stomache the peaceful youth bengali image being submerged in the sea of wuhhabi sunni fanaticism? if the trend continues, the same story of the uk could resurface in punjab and would be more than likely considering islam ummah ( community) and politics go hand in hand. if today its 500 000 strong whats that gonna be in 20 years? that too in a sikh heartland like ludhiana? the trends of sikhi on decline within the youth is pretty obvious too. the same parralel could happen with bihari migrants but the main problem with them is they are the lowest caste in hindus, and would hardly be considered for rss right hand domination, but cud be used to influence state politics, i have heard some are converting to sikhi as a way out of their lot.

im 5 feet 2 inches but my cousin sister outgrown most men shes 6 feet 4 super pindu the hospitals had to put injections on her to stop her growing. when we walk down the street every1 moves out of the way, imagine a kurri in a goot and suit that tall! people get shocked.

but then can u raelly say ur doind Seva :T: . isn't it more like .....making money bhull chukk maaf Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! only such singers individually can answer and know themselves if their songs r seva when it comes to dharmic songs. i guess i shudnt overgeneralise the aim of singers just to make money, but i do believe that is overall objective of many, when their out to irk a living e specially when establishing their careers. However there may be singers who have made enuff and just wanna do something for their faith and put something back into the community, so im not gonna belittle that. and to the point of text highlighted by yourself veerji, my view which shud have been made clearer was addressed to songs and social trends generally. If somebody even a complete mona moni wants to sing for seva or do seva in whatever field only their own heart knows whether it is or not.

the caste system doesnt start or stop with singers , their simply picked a market where trends lie, and making money out of what they excel in singing songs in folk style . if they sang songs purely on dharmic itihaas and sikhi, being proffessional singers there audiance catch wud be limited to a potential of 24 million. if they targetted a bigger of audience of asians in general they wud probably have to change their style of singing to appeal to gujerati bengali hindiised audiences hence they wudnt be bhangra singers anymore but a mish mash of everything tu rararara turarara daler mehndi fame etc lol. If they sang songs of punjabiat all the time again the catch first wud be a lesser figure of hitting on bout only 20 million punjabis currently in punjab. and a further 45 million in pakistan punjab which is being urduised by the gov, factors relating to the attachment of punjabi identity are in question then, so in course their sales wud be expected marginally much less. however caste identity, attachment to its heritage, and feudalism is a social reality in both india and pakistan however much both sikhism and islam are against jaat paat. Its not just one or two singers, even manak bhindrakia chamkila sang jatt songs and they were from chammars. An example which i think is true again, jazzy b sings folk songs on caste lines, black pagh on his head with the lar hanging out of the back and a red tikka on his forehead in one of his videos. Its a fact theresonly 16 million punjabi jatts, but a bigger number of jatts outside of punjab in india multiplied 3 times over than punjabi jatts. to attract his audiences for bigger numbers perhaps his got that tikka on im jus thinking thats a way to appeal to the bigger part of the audiences who r non punjabi jatts. Now im not cussing him, hes an artist his voice, talents and seva to the community are much more than mine for i cant even sing while he has done some dharmic songs so much respect to him for efforts on those lines. Its just a piece of the pie sing a song that people wanna hear quick buck! but with gifted talents, however i always believe firmly that such voices cud be majical if singing shabads. i dont think its always fixated on caste either, they do sing punjabi songs which appeal to anyone, and even songs of singhs putt sardara dey, hence hitting into different markets with different songs, keeping the crowds happy maximising their returns. but i still think the jatt factor is one of the bigger market catches. Similar trends are noted everywhere, seeedy songs about lust are sang in the west , because obviously theres a market there for that here ie kylie minogues songs. in the black community theres a lot of resentment to the racist establishment of western societies going back years ago which bought older groups to fame like public enemy. Rap singers can feed of the bad things happening and play on them as a means and not an end with the ends being financial reward doing what they do best. if thats what people wanna hear thats what these artists are gonna provide cos their singing to make money out of their audiences.

Jazzy B is a stpid <banned word filter activated> monna, who wears big gold khanda's while he dances around with naked women, singing lyrics all about Jatt, Jatt and more Jatt. You are completely 100% correct. true. His every albums just HAS TO INCLUDE a song about Jatts. @ Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!! same thing with surinde r shinda, both are gifted with talent in their voice and singing, but wasted through caste songs. They have an audience there who wants to buy the stuff they sing, if the numbers abroad and in asia wanna buy it their gonna sing it however sad it is. ive even heard that shinda isnt a jatt but a bhogal, i aint bothered about caste , but if tru jus goes to show what hes doin is making songs that wud hit up be popular wid mainstream audience of punjabis who wud be jatts as 16 million in punjab r, as well as a bigger audience of jatts in haryana uttar pradesh and rajistan which together comprise a population of 50 million jatt audience alone throughout north india. Then through international sales in pakistan which also has a sizeable jatt punjabi population like 35 million in pakistan punjab alone. 85 million potential sales say even half that appealing out still huge numbers. I am purely stressing the point of social trends not religiousity. dont get me wrong i aint into caste, the marketing strategy check on that , thats what these people r doing and making big bucks out of what they like doing best singing songs in punjabi. Its sad because those gifted voices cud be so beautifully tuned into gurbani and singing shabads melodiously with passion. If shinda did one on "purja purja kat marey" man id get it one time!

rather than rely on what someone in india says why doesnt laleshvari meet a singh from akj here in england , and talk about what his concerns fears are and have dialogue and try to resolve whatever his grudge is than bangin on the internet about how bad jatha is? has he even had the fortune to meet some of the chardi kala gurmukhs? or even the panj? its better to talk directly than to spread misinformation on the net where young sikhs are trying to learn. ive seen him bust out with answers like "fanatics extremists death threats" when singhs have asked to meet him, how about just for educational purposes no threats no violence no imposing views just plain simple dialogue with gurmukhs or come down to a rensbhai get darshan of the sangat kirtan laha meet the panj and talk about whatever he wants to in the end? its best to clear things so we can move on than create confusion.

khalsa souljha isnt the only one, that bahadur singh laleshvari goes on the shiachat to a muslim site and openly calls akj, singh sabha , mainstream sikhs "wahabis" and all kindsof names " imposing their views on others " and " running the gurdwaras". now this causes concern to the outside world as if sikhs and their gurdwaras are run by extremists. its stirring trouble where in the uk sikh muslim relations arent very gud as it is. looks bad on sikhi causes more confusion than what khalsa souljah said which touched on keski. if that bahadur singh praises shias its ok but why at the expense of doing ninda as well as painting sections of the panth to be some fanatics. What are those muslims on that site gona walk away thinking of sikhs? its like one person gets away with it un noticed another doesnt. this is not connected to the sikhawareness banning system, but if khalsa souljah is gonna be mentioned doing that then so should bahadur singh. im not akj myself have seen his posts, and dont understand why a gora would hate akj so much where he wants to rip into em everyday?

i read the full article if its true its sick.

whoa! bikramjit that sadeyah jeyah kebab is saying sikhism is like hinduism????? islam is more like hinduism than sikhi , eg, pilgrimages, sacred bathings ( wuzu), deeds for brownie points to heaven, charity, fasting, ritual slaughter, idol worship (kabba n sang e aswad), heirarchy of racial superiority ie mohammeds claim that arabs are more pure than others and claims that martyrs go to heavens with beautiful women. they are trying to create this hindu sikh link and tar us with the same brush use some verses from quran about pagans to make us feel inferior.

Allah is a semtic name from Illah ( hebrew). Quran is the word of God where it asks its followers to smite the necks of infidels ( non believers of islam). what kind of word of god is this? it is claimed the Quran is word of God for all times to come. How can that be possible when circumstances have changed from 1400 years ago? How is circumcision and shaving an act of purity in todays world where it was once in a desert region? ie lack of water means irregular baths could trigger infections in genital regions, but todsy we have water runnin in our taps, hence the belief was only practical to the time and period, and not to the whole world " for all times to come" as claimed. a man gets 72 houris in heaven for reward for being pious, what does the wife of the muslim get if she too has been pious? theres no 72 male houris for her for her. yet even accompanieing the 72 houris, will be 11 ghilman ( boys of charm) for the male muslims not for women, so even pedos get a chance! should we base our deeds in life for credits to heaven or for the sake of Love and devotion to God? is the first method selfish or selfless? islamic concept of heaven, wine, women, young boys at your service, endless food, red carpets, what time will there be to pray to God? how can an intoxicated mind devote to God? sounds more like butlins holiday camp! they cuss sikhs down for idol worshipping Guru granth sahib, then what is the stone at kabba?? also ask them about the sang e aswad which they try and deny altogether. why do they stone the devils stone if they believe it has nothing? " we believe it represents the devil", so suddenly a stone r epresents a power equal to God? what did islam bring to earth that didnt exist b4 in other religions? " a complete system way of life". what is this way of life? charities, prayer to One God, rituals, sacrifical bathing, fasting, sacrifice of meat feasts, pilgrimages? combination of christianity, paganism, judaism, hinduism. the name of allah even is even hebrew. how can a decent law abiding human who prays to God outside islam burn in the pits of hell forever, while a muslim whos raped sinned, robbed massacred, eventually go to heaven after spending some time hell while the poor non muslim roasts forever just because they didnt take shahada ( belief of islam)?? does this make sense?? this is the unique formula that will solve all my problems and send me to junnah? paradise im waiting. u bring me the email of this musalmaan please!