dalsingh101

".we were talking about caste system: my teacher asked "doesnt sikhism also have a caste system?" im like naa...mayb ur getting the sikh religion and the punjabi culture mixed up. theres a difference. " Yeah, try telling that to the VAST MAJORITY of Sikhs, including the ones who have taken amrit. Reality on the ground is that Sikhs DO (sadly) have a caste system at present. It usually lays low until marriage time!

That was good!

1752 - The cooperation between Sikhs and Mir Mannu snapped as a result of Kaura Mal's death. This was evident from action during Abdali's third invasion. The Sikhs under the patronage of Diwan Kaura Mal, a Khulasa Sikhs, had cooperated with Mir Mannu. henceforth, Mir Mannu as a nominee of Afghans pursued the policy of extirpating Sikhs. If nothing else, their women and children were taken to Nakhas, Lahore, in hundreds, and were subjected to gruesome torture and martyred. In 18 months, he killed about 30,000 Sikhs. The peasentry crushed, because of the Afghan depredations and roving provincial troops in search of the Sikh families, joined the Khalsa fold in large numbers who offered them protection. http://www.allaboutsikhs.com/sikh-history/...-6th-march.html

I think you're wrong. Joining the Khalsa, from the very beginning, was a voluntary move. Besides in at least one case (Diwan Kaura Mal) someone who was a mona Sikh (thats right) gave crucial support to the Khalsa against the Moghuls. Do you think this was the only guy like this? Do you think Khalsas didn't help from ordinary Panjabis in their hour of trial? Read some extracts from Rattan Bhangus work. Sehajdharis have always been here. Always will. Its only your egos that make you differentiate. If it got messy and you were being hunted down like dogs you would be grateful for any help you would get. Read also the story of Sukha Singh (who slew Massa Ranghar with Mehtab Singh) prior to taking amrit he would help hide Singhs. Besides I don't expect Khafi Khan to be friendly towards Sikhs but what motivation would be have to reference the beard and beardless thing way back in the early 1700s. Maybe it is just plain too hard for certain people to except that our history is not as clean cut as it has been presented by some. Read up on Kaura Mal please.

That is typical Panjabi peasant - not needed - drunk <admin-profanity filter activated> violence! They came here to make a few quid and end up doing this. Reminds me of a similar case a couple of years ago when a pindus killed another one (stabbed) over an argument over washing up the dishes. Police had posters over the Gurdwara in Panjabi because he cut his hair and ran off.

If this is true why did our Gurus travel so much to preach and convert so many people? Your argument makes no sense in light of Sikh history.

Ok then! LOL If you are behind that website - well done!! Do you know what pages of SGGS the akhaan jor shabad is on by any chance?

How old are you?

Yes, They may be Sikhs but they may not be Khalsas (yet). Like some of you who were monay before amrit. Talking plainly, it wasn't like you were Hindus, Muslims or anything else. You were Sikhs (even if you were poor ones). By taking amrit you have taken it further and become Khalsa. Your example should inspire the rest of us, not push us away from Sikhi. A big part of that is strength (sipahi) and compassion (sant)

Thank you once again. I will actually purchase the albums sometime soon (incase Snatam is reading this!). Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji ki Fateh

Any chance of getting Ik Ong Kaar on that SikhSoul site? For download?

Papi, I do and I am quite aware of my shortcomings and failings towards Sikhi without someone ramming it further down my throat like they were perfect themselves. With nadar, I shall reach the other side of the bank.

I just wonder what did these guys go through to make them so angry that they smacked up a random gora? I'm sure something is behind it. Sikhs don't usually do that sort of thing unless they have been messed around a lot?

Thanks a lot for that. I think if kirtan sounded like this more often we wouldn't haven't problems with youth becoming distant from the Gurdwara. I really love akhaan jor. Thanks a lot again!

Also try going to window in which the file is contained and RIGHT CLICK once on the file. A small menu should appear and one option should be OPEN WITH Try choosing this and selecting Powerpoint. It should open up in PPT then.

Which Gurdwara in Leeds is this? I know the Singh Sabha one recently got in trouble for having booze and meat and cigarettes on gurdwara premises? There are so many in Leeds?

Not being negative but I remember when I was at uni for the first time many years ago. I met so many keshdhari and even amritdharis whose knowledge of the Panjabi and Sikh history/culture was infinitely poorer than many of the monay I met. Some of the people who externally looked more Sikh, didn't even know the names of the 10 Gurus for example and couldn't read Panjabi whereas many of the monay did and could. Also many of those who looked externally SIkh also practiced many Hindu culture type things. I remember a few saying Sikhs are not allowed to eat beef because it is mata devi or something. When you went to their houses their families had pictures of Hindu deities hanging on the wall. Often you get some brothers, who are monay and one decides to take amrit or grow kesh. In my family I have a mixture of keshdhari and monay. I'm happy that those who keep the external roop do not look down on others who do not. People like that just end up destroying any possibility of panthic unity. -------------------------------------------------- The following is a translation from a Persian manuscript completed in 1731 by Khafi Khan regarding the Moghul battles with Banda Singh Bahadur. I made a few notes (in brackets) highlighting points I feel are interesting. ----------------------- (Siege of Lohgarh) The wretched chief of that sect (Banda) accompanied by his error tending, doomed followers, whom wealth seeking as well as deep faith had bound to that eternally misled one, incited and encouraged his followers to fight and resist with such fables and inducements as that whoever is killed in this battle will without delay in the very form, whether bearded or beardless, in which he dies, return and attain further progress in the stages of worldly life. Those persons who regarded the statement of their spiritual leader and chief in the matter of transmigration of souls (which is condemned by all scripture believing God praying faiths) as absolutely proved, lent their ears in agreement. --(Note: That according to this account some of the people fighting on the Sikh side were "beardless").--

Join and use your new found powers to help other Sikhs!! Make sure it isn't some closet white homo organisation though!

I was just listening to snippets of the Shanti one. I think I'll get it. Any others you recommend?

I think the problem lies in the fact that most of the prominent people in the panth stopped respecting themselves and became easily corruptible. I think this started a long time ago. Even the Khalsa fauj in the time of Maharajah Ranjit Singh seemed to have lost their spirituality and indulged in all kinds of nonsense. That is why they gave up after a few fights with the English, whereas the original Khalsas would have rather continued and died fighting rather than give up. Panth seems lost to me sometimes, not able to agree on anything. Lacking strategic thinking. Corrupt leadership. Arguing over petty things. Not seeing one another as brothers and sisters but competition. Not helping those amongst us that need help. Khalsa was meant to be hope for the hopeless, honour for the dishonoured, shelter for those without shelter. Today many Khalsas are judgemental and self obsessed. Nowerdays Sikhism has become so tied up with the economics in the Punjab that the spirituality is hard to find. No wonder no one respects the panth anymore. Look at the backward illiterate clowns running the SGPC for a prime example.

Khalsa Network where can I get it from?

How do you join? I thought you had to be initiated?

Keep it up! You have real talent!

That was so beautifully put and so truthful as well. Ultimately, the way I see it a Sikh is a Sikh. It is true that the Khalsa have a special place in the panth. But we need to be careful because, truth be told, amritdharis of today are nothing like puratan ones. Look at the stuff they had to face. Also look at how fearless and united they generally were in dealing with it. I think we all, amritdhari and not are not a patch on them. I remember a sakhi about a Khalsa going to a prostitute and Guru ji standing guard outside the brothel and stopping him going in - the point was that Guru ji didn't discard him and judge him for the act but practically tried to keep him on the straight path. Guru ji seems to have had a lot of love for the people around him. It was his concept of brotherhood that sustained the Sikhs through the hard times. People should also remember Divan Kaura Mal, who was a mona government official who supplied the Khalsa with food and information about enemy movements. How did the Khalsa react to him? Did they discard him as a mona and turn their back on him? NO. The actually renamed him Mitta (sweet) Mal in gratitude for his help. So they didn't look down on him because he didn't take amrit, why can't amritdharis do this now?