dalsingh101

Thanks for that. You are right though, I think Sikhs who are quite isolated in non multicultural environments will suffer the most. Still we should follow the Jewish model and get a firm foot in the media wherever we are. In the U.k. this is quite possible to do over the next few years. This country owes, whether they admit or not, so many Sikhs died for England in the World Wars etc. I think we need some official body that the media can contact when they need some information on Sikhs to ensure that it is correct.

I'm not being pessimistic but I think if it goes down big, Sikhs are going to suffer. I think we all need to learn the lessons from 1947 and 1984. I think people are a little more civilised here but I'm sure we will be impacted by any such events both. Lets not wait till "the storm has come and gone" this time. Lol We really need to have more of a representation in this country throughout. Including all the media, parliament, education etc. But I have a felling that the extreme elements within both British and the Muslim world are hoping for a situation where we are all at each others throats. They are messed up enough to push for that.

SSA Check out the Mentor show to hear a telephone interview with Bal Singh of Iron Mongers. It is just after the 2 hour mark on yesterday's recorded show (Click "Listen Here" on the following webpage to hear it.) http://www.bbc.co.uk/asiannetwork/thejumpo...r_my_demo.shtml

My two rupees worth... I think we need to distinguish between dhadhi and gurbani. Whilst I think nothing is wrong with remixing the former, something Tigerstyle has done very well, doing the same to the latter seems wrong. Don't misunderstand me though, I'm not saying that we should not experiment with bani on a musical level. If you hear some of the stuff coming from the goray Sikhs in America it is really beautiful, soul inspiring and deeply spiritual and they experiment with different instruments such as guitars. In fact remember that the common bajaa that is used in Gurdwaras are in fact a European innovation as the instrument came to the Panjab via Europeans (it is an adapted harmonium). But using bani for dance tracks - something seems very wrong with that especially if we imagine it being played in clubs.

Thats awesome! keep scaring people lol put ur hand in ur bag and say "I found the button"! they will think its the bomb lol Yeah but just be careful of any paranoid armed policeman......lol

What are we as a community? A production line for slaggy girls? (not saying all are like that but enough are that a reputation has now been established). Enough of that, what really makes me laugh is despite ALL of the crap in the last ten years in the U.K. some are still not going to learn. Oh well.

Do you think indirect racism may increase i.e. in terms of employment as a result? I remember after the July attacks I went on the tube in London with a rucksack to carry some large folders I needed and I could clearly see people were scared.

What I'm getting from all this is that we have lots of people who are proud of their Sikh heritage but only some who are able to take the step and commit to full amrit. What I think I am seeing is that there is a lot of affection for the Sikh thing from a whole spectrum of people. I think that is lovely and promising. I was reading some vars of Bhai Gurdas and he was saying how this thing was a ferry for us to cross the stormy seas of life. I hope we ALL get to the other side and get to meet each other with our tales. WJKK WJKF PS - i'm sorry if i've offended anyone.

WJKK WJKF Not trying to be negative but was just wondering if we would get effected if some jerks pulled off some big terrorist attacks here?? I say this because a few wallys from my end have been arrested for trying such things. I was just thinking that eventually some may actually suceed. On a street level, employment wise, our future here. Would such a thing impact on these. If sangat is inclined please give opinions. Especially with regard to the average Englishman's understanding of Sikhs. Whether a backlash of some sort may take place? Will we be hated because we look similar to the villains (in some people's eyes)? Or are goray just plain crafty and would use the opportunity to knock us all a few pegs lower knowing we are Sikhs?

dalsingh101 ji, Once those needy Punjabis who have been converted may have been influenced by parcharaks, who knows!. Fact is, it’s up to the individual to decide to accept the parchaar or not. After all we are still struggling Manmukhs and winning over our ego is the biggest battle. Guru ji tells us karmee aapo aapnee kay nayrhai kay door. According to their own actions, some are drawn closer, and some are driven farther away. We can all be sitting in the same diwan in the Guru Ghar, listening to the same parchaar or same shabad, but individually we will take home what we feel we want to. Some of us come for the karah parshad, some for the langer, some for the knowledge, some for spiritual uplifting and some of us will come for the sake of it. You can’t pass sole blame onto the parcharak for having poor presentation skills as it’s a mixture of many factors, somethings will go beyond what we can physically control. iknaa hukmee bakhsees ik hukmee sadaa bhavaa-ee-ah. Some, by His Command, are blessed and forgiven; others, by His Command, wander aimlessly forever. hukmai andar sabh ko baahar hukam na ko-ay. Everyone is subject to His Command; no one is beyond His Command. Sorry for my "hippy" response!! I'm sure it's not what you quite wanted to hear. For such a beautiful and inspiring philosophy/history that Sikhs have I think our parcharaks need to be shot for doing such a p i s s poor job at enthusing the youth. I got a mosque around the corner from me and it is ram packed with young guys every single night. Our Gurdwaras generally fail to provide the vast majority of youth from Panjabi backgrounds with spiritual nourishment. Seeing as they are increasingly being broken into caste affiliations whether openly or discreetly (e.g. Ramgarhia and Singh Sabha respectively) I can't see this changing. Youth today are not dumb. Teaching people ANYTHING, requires brains (I'm a teacher so I think I should know) and the backward pindus (i.e. gianis) we have haven't got a clue. Reaching out to the disaffected within our community is a must, as these people are vulnerable and the most likely to convert, but instead all they seem to cater for are conformist mummies boys. Don't make excuses for it Sarbloh. Any community that neglects their youth , especially when they are vulnerable, deserves to be destroyed. Its ok, I think sometime in the future the fake t o s s e rs that are going around judging everyone else and doing chittor themselves for the panth will have their backs broken and shown for what they are. Until that happens we will continue to get nibbled away at from goray and sulay. The fake religious will continue to talk their irrelevant inpractical claptrap in the face of this. And the real Sikh soldiers will anguish and itch to clamp down on on the vairees and be looked down on by the conservatives.

Where were the amritdharis hiding?? Good for them guys who kicked <admin-profanity filter activated>, kesh or no kesh, they kept the Ankila Punjab spirit alive.

Extract from above Panthic Weekly article “From personal experience, 60-70% of all female students who go to study at the University of Luton or Bradford have either returned home converted to Islam or have returned home a different person. It's so tough to survive the world of conversions and I can proudly say that having returned home after 3 years at Luton University I did not convert, but returned home stronger.” If there is a direct correlation between specific universities and alleged intimidation by Muslim students, then there needs to either some kind of official meeting between Sikh bodies (SAS, BOSS etc) and those Universities or we (concerned Sikhs as a whole) need to build the Sangat within those areas in order to provide a support network for the alleged victims of intimidation. Again this assumption is only based on an internet article in Panthic Weekly, which will unfortunately not hold as evidence unless reported to the authorities. IK ONG KAR SATGUR PARSAD! Friend, Evidence or no evidence, both the suggestions put forward by you should be taken seriously and implemented to build a strong sikh presence in the said areas, so as to provide a boost for our sikh community. Bhul chuk maaf karnee ji!! The presence that makes real effect is that of strong, capable fighters. You people don't know what kind of jerks we are up against. They only understand one thing.....and it is not any theology or philosophy. As for our parcharaks, they suck big time, preaching to people already converted and not capable or bothered to get to the Panjabis that really need it and who could actually be of use to the panth beyond talk talk, know what I mean. What do we do in this case?? Every single last Sikh man, whether amrit dhari, kesh dhari or a mona has a duty right now to make sure they all raise their kids in a non pu**y hippy way. Simple as that. Watch what difference it will make in the next few decades. Then we can respond appropriately to the jerks who are testing us. In the meanwhile we do damage limitation and try via media and direct intervention and most importantly education within the panth to keep those who craftily try to eat away at us or attack us directly via media and stuff at bay (note: it isn't only elements within sulay that are doing this, goray khat nahi) Plus all the people who haven't got a real clue about our history and push the whitewashed idealised version should shut up and let people who dwell in reality (hakeekat) take charge. Also instead of solely pushing our children to be accountants, doctors, lawyers and office monkeys, seeing as we have enough money as a community we should be pushing a fair portion of them into music, televison and movie production. Mass media is of major importance in this era, and we are behind everyone in this and just seem good at making crap caste based films without any depth(i.e. your average Panjabi film). This would provide a global platform for us to talk to each other and reach those who we usually wouldn't be able to reach as well as create a positive outlet for Sikh creativity.....and we are a very creative people, I think so anyway. What do you think of these suggestions?

NO , NOT IF THE STINGER HAS ANYTHING 2 SAY ABOUT IT. STING WILL STINGER SLASH U ALL!!! DONT TURN YOUR BACK ON THE WOLF PACK!!!!! Rubbish The Warrior will Gorilla Press Hogan and the Poodle Pack!! long live ONE WARRIOR NATION the OWN! I c. well this contest can only be decided in a tripple threat ladder match in a steel cage! with tables and chairs! IF U SMELLLLLL WHAT THE ROCK IS COOKING the rock is a Rss agent anti-g-panthic, distroy rock, no body worship rock anti-panthic. warrior press you all to wwwwwwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiooooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrr!! The Warrior runs in to the ring, flying body block on Rock cos he’s too busy cooking! LoL, slaps Hogan on his ganja head, Hogan collapses, warrior to the ropes, body splash, the refs in 1..2..3, the warrior takes it, the rocks making Roti, and Hogans combing over his bald patch, and the ref gets a refund on the ladders they were never used. Warrior victorious Are you on drugs?

Extract from above Panthic Weekly article “From personal experience, 60-70% of all female students who go to study at the University of Luton or Bradford have either returned home converted to Islam or have returned home a different person. It's so tough to survive the world of conversions and I can proudly say that having returned home after 3 years at Luton University I did not convert, but returned home stronger.” If there is a direct correlation between specific universities and alleged intimidation by Muslim students, then there needs to either some kind of official meeting between Sikh bodies (SAS, BOSS etc) and those Universities or we (concerned Sikhs as a whole) need to build the Sangat within those areas in order to provide a support network for the alleged victims of intimidation. Again this assumption is only based on an internet article in Panthic Weekly, which will unfortunately not hold as evidence unless reported to the authorities. IK ONG KAR SATGUR PARSAD! Friend, Evidence or no evidence, both the suggestions put forward by you should be taken seriously and implemented to build a strong sikh presence in the said areas, so as to provide a boost for our sikh community. Bhul chuk maaf karnee ji!! The presence that makes real effect is that of strong, capable fighters. You people don't know what kind of jerks we are up against. They only understand one thing.....and it is not any theology or philosophy. As for our parcharaks, they suck big time, preaching to people already converted and not capable or bothered to get to the Panjabis that really need it and who could actually be of use to the panth beyond talk talk, know what I mean.

Sorry I mean Bhai Kanhaiya (don't know how to spell it), you know who gave water on the battle field to all and sundry.

Sikhs should be able to defend themselves without help. Especially from Ps!!

Lets really turn it around. How about a Sikh with 5 kakkars and no morals i.e. the whole of the S.G.P.C and the Akali Dal? I've got something that I've been thinking about that I would like to share with with the brothers and sisters. i was thinking, just hypothetically, that I wouldn't make my child grow their hair and be kesh dhari until I knew they could fight real good and were morally upright. Someone once told me that an amritdhari who can't really fight like a hardcore warrior should be made to take his kakkars off because they are frauds and nothing like the people they are trying to imitate. What do the sangat think of this point? I know about Bhai Joga, but still he was an exception to enforce a point about compassion being important for a Singh. I read in Bachitar Natak that Guru Gobind after his first few battles threw the people who refused to fight out of Anandpur and rewarded the ones that did.

I think it is important so I can distinguish between people from Sikh backgrounds and those not. I know people will say some people (you know who) wear karay to pull some dumb girls but generally it it is quite accurate to tell if someone is an upna or not. Plus it is some form of connection to Sikhism.

Someone who has the connections please get some larger organisation like the BSF (British Sikh Federation) to complain. It will have a greater impact than just individuals.

People should write their own personal complaint about the program. We will look like a bunch of brainless morons if we keep sending copies of the same complaint in. Some people, who are literate, pen your own complaint and send it in!! For you young ones, who write in <banned word filter activated> slang all the time. Take note, most of you have been born and bred in the U.K. If you're incapable of stringing a few coherant and intelligent words together in English you should wake up.

In the Guru's time Harmandir Sahib was white marble. It was Maharajah Ranjit Singh who had the gold put on it. Apparently he also had gold out on some key mosque as well as some Hindu mandir as well.

Some public statement saying that Sikhs were misportrayed would be a good start. This should be on the actual channel itself at a prime time slot. Then perhaps a programmed showing things in a more balanced perspective would be nice (but probably unlikely). We ALL should make intelligent complaints to Ofcom and Channel 4. Let them know that we as a COMMUNITY are unhappy about this. If only a few people complain, they will feel that they are a fringe group and possibly not give any serious consideration to the matter. So get behind it folks.

I sent the following to Channel 4. I would like to say that the above program, as aired on Channel 4 at 9.00pm on the 12th of March was totally irresponsible and biased, bordering on racist. The Sikhs of the Punjab were portrayed as communal trouble makers whilst the truth was that they were in fact a minority group that were caught up in the violent actions of larger communities that were hell bent on establishing their own independent country at any cost. Seeing as the program focused largely on the Punjab, the widely acknowledged Sikh homeland, it is inconceivable that the Sikh perspective on the issue of partition was not fully presented. When the nation was torn apart by other people the Sikhs found themselves in a terrible position and had to fight for their survival. Presenting biased personal accounts as the truth without considering the position Sikhs quickly found themselves in is unacceptable. Overlooking the disproportionate contribution/sacrifice of Sikhs for the independence movement as well as failing to explaining the position of Sikhs prior to the British invasion/annex of Punjab was mischievous to say the least. Portraying the British as a concerned innocent party in all of this is also offensive. Prior to the British invasion of the Punjab Sikhs had achieved much in terms of communal harmony in the Punjab under the Maharaja Ranjit Singh. How after 100 odd years of government by the British this evaporated into thin air is a story in itself. I feel disgusted after having seen the program and would like efforts to be made to balance the distorted picture that Channel 4 have painted regarding the Sikh position during partition. This should be done in a timely fashion to alleviate the hurt feelings that your program has caused. Kind regards

You got some front hps62. Aren't you a bahman convert yourself? No, not all Sikhs are p**ies in the U.K. But they are seriously outnumbered here, not that stops true Sikhs from fighting back like many do. As for that song "mundian too batch ke" that was actually written by someone from India. What did you cook your breakfast on this morning? Cow tati? LoL Hps62 u r a right knob, instead of supporting your own people you come out with stuff like that. I bet your a big freshy pansy yourself anyway. lool

I think bifta is more accurately "burden" could be wrong...anyone? Khoj means "to analyse" Vichaar does it mean discuss/deliberate?