Singh47

It's usually just in western countries that people refer to themselves as "Taksali Sikh" or "AKJ Sikh". In India they dont do that as much. Even if you do belong to a particular group, you shouldn't go around saying that I am this and I am that. That confusus people of other faiths, who are under the impression that there are no such divisions in our Panth.

THis news sounds fake to me. It's nothing new.

I can’t understand what she is saying. Hate the British accent. So hard to understand.

That was a very impressive video. I liked it. There was this one part where they briefly showed a guy dropping a huge concrete block on an animal lying on the ground. It landed on the neck, right after that you see the animal moving around in pain. That was so sad. I agree with peta, it takes a pretty small person to eat an animal. I don’t blame the butchers as much as I blame the meat eaters. If there wasn’t a demand for meat, then people wouldn’t become butchers and kill animals to satisfy the demand.

I think the author of that article Mr. Aiyar needs to use some common sense. It’s very easy to say the police should use extra judicial killings to wipe out militants, even if the person being killed is not even a militant. How would he like it if someone killed his son or grandson in the same cold blooded manner and not even asked whether or not he’s innocent? This guy obviously cannot feel for others. He is lacking empathy. May god bless him by taking him out of the darkness of his ignorance.

Sometimes the problem with Sikh missionary is that they like to be scientific. As a result of this they deny the way Baba Deep Singh Jee got Shaheed, because scientifically a person cannot go fighting the way Baba Deep Singh Jee did. But Sikh missionary should realize that Baba Deep Singh Jee had the power of Naam. With the power of Naam, anything’s possible. Everything else of Sikh missionary is alright, it’s just this aspect of Baba Jee’s shaheedi which I (and most of the panth) don’t agree with Sikh missionary. BTW, Sikh missionaries booklet about Baba Banda SIngh Jee Bahadur is one of the best I have read about Baba Banda Singh after Ganda SIngh's book.

Garcha Jee, the point I was trying make was that whatever the origins of Vaheguru, it most certainly did not come from the way that PouRi says it did. The origins of Vaheguru are from Sachkhand itself.

There are a number of reasons why some Sikh scholors are of the opinion that this PouRi is a later addition of Bhai Gurdas Dhai Varaa. According to that particular PouRi (48) Vaar 1 -The names taken from Satyug, Dwaparug, Tretayug, and Kalyug are Vaasdev, Raam, Harkrishan, and Gobind. From these names you get four words VA, RA, H, GO but if you put them together you get VARAHGO, not VAHEGURU. If you switch around Dwaparug, Tretayug, and Kalyug then you get VAHGORA, and not VAHEGURU. -If you just go with the sounds i.e. the initials, then you get “VHGR”, not VAHEGURU. -The writer of the PouRi indicates the letter of GA means Guru Gobind Singh Jee. But how can this be since Bhai Gurdas Jee died during the times of Sri Guru Hargobind Sahib Jee. Guru Gobind Singh Jee was not even born yet. This in itself indicates that this PouRi was added in after Guru Gobind Singh Jee. -Krishan and Raam were avatars of Vishnu i.e. Vaishnav Avtar. According to Gurmat, we as Sikhs do not worship them in anyway, but this PouRi brings them up to the same level as Sri Guru Gobind Singh Jee. These Avtars were Chelaas (followers) of Gurus like “Ghor Anghra”, and “Vashisht”. Then how can Bhai Gurdas Jee refer to them as Gurus, they were simply Avtaars. One of the historical inaccuracies in this PouRi is the first Tukh. It’s implying that “VaasDev” was the Avtar in Satyug. But Vaasdev was one the names of Sri Krishan. Infact Sri Krishan got this name because his father’s name was “Vasudev”, thus Krishan began to be known “VasuDev Krishan”. But Krishan was born in Dwaparyug, and not Satyug. So how can Vaasdev have been the Naam in Satyug? I don’t belie ve that Bhai Gurdas Jee could have made this historical mistake, so it is not the Rachnaa of Bhai Gurdas Jee.

Sikh scholars such as Bhai Vir Singh Jee who have translated Bhai Gurdas Dhia Varaa are of the opinion that this particular PouRi was added in much after Bhai Sahib composed his Varaa. It is not the composition of Bhai Gurdas Jee. This PouRi is inaccurate both historically and Gurmat wise. In other words, it is “milaavath”.

Mkhalsa, Taksal and AKJ have more in common than differences. Infact only two differences, but atleast 17 things are in common within both Jathas. But you left on thing out. -Both hate Kala Afghana!

I think that 1947 should be declared the third Ghalugara. Over 200,000 Sikhs are said to have died in Pakistan within the span of a few months in 1947. Furthermore, since over 45% of the Sikh population was living in Pakistan before 47, they all became refugees. Imagine half of the Sikh population becoming refugees! Sikhs were big land owners in pre-partition Pakistan, infact that’s why people of India called them “Sardar Jee” an honorary title. Furthermore, nearly half of our historical Gurdwaras such as Nankana Sahib and Panja Sahib were lost to us. Not to mention many Sikh women who were abducted and forcibly married off to Muslim men. It’s unfortunate that so many Sikhs have forgotten those times. In 1947 nearly 10 times more Sikh lives were lost than in 1984. 1984 was bad too. So it should be the 4th Ghalughara.

R. Singh, I concur with your opinion. Although Nanaksar may have edited out the story concerning Taksal in their newer version of Anand Chamatkar. But still I myself have heard Nanaksaris telling me about this story. Furthermore, now that Nanaksar is very big in India, they actually propagate this story when doing Katha. I know this from people who have heard them do Katha in India. This is because Taksals power and influence has decreased considerably from what it use to be during the 1970’s, 80s, and early 90s.

Veer Sindha Singh Jee, I'm just curious, when was Gurmukh Singh called before the Akal Takht? I mean, when did this incident occur?

Veer Shinda Singh Jee, It’s great news to know that some parts were edited. But did they also edit out the part where they claim that the Sants were “Avtars” of Sri Guru Nanak Dev Jee? Because as a Sikh, that is probably the most insulting and hurtful part of Anand Chamatkar. I would expect such claims by the Kukas or Radhaswamis, but not from a Sikh Sapradhah.

Jews have not forgoten what happened to them 60 years ago, when why should we forget what heppened to us just 20 years ago. Sajjan, Tytler should all be punished and hanged for thier crimes against the Sikhs. Sikhs should not "bury" it. What heppened to the Sikhs should be told to all Sikh children.

agreed..

Bhain Jee I have been told by Nanaksari Babas that these were approved by Sant Ishar Singh Jee Mahraj.

Bhain Jee, I did not compare anyone. When did I compare the two Mahpursh? Please show me. This is from a Nanaksari source. It’s they who are comparing, not me. Why blame the guys who translates the story. Why give so much credit to me? I was just as much offended when I read this story. I was so offended that I thought “I have to translate this story, and show it to everyone”. That does not prove a thing Bhain Jee. My only agenda is Sikhi and my Quam. Admin, this is not Jatha dividing, so think about this for a minute. This is not the account of an individual. This book was approved by Sant Ishar Singh Jee. Book was written by one the closest companions of Baba Nand Singh Jee. Ifact the auther has also written a biography of Baba Ishar Singh Jee in the form of Ishar Chamatkar.

N30 Singh and Deep SIngh, I had no idea they edited out some of the stories from the newer version. But even Sahajleen Kaur Khalsa once confirmed that she also read this chapter from the older version. I havn’t seen the newer version yet. I didn’t even know they had a newer version. The older version was actually approved and blessed by the Sants. But I guess due to pressure from admirers of Sant Gurbachan Singh Jee they had to edit it out.

Bhain Kaur Jee, what colour is the book? is it a red coloured book?

Bhian Sehjo Kaur. I don’t care of any controversy, because that is not what I am here to do. Why does everyone think I come here to start a controversy? If you think I wrote something wrong, then tell me about it like N30 Singh. Why do you want it to be locked? You’re making a big fuss out of nothing. If you see something particularly wrong, then tell me about it. Why lock it? Admins, please don’t lock it. It is not causing any division between two groups. If it is, then tell me about it.

Veer N30 Singh The Anand Chamatkar I have, has been with my family for a long time. Many many years. The first time I read them, there was a lot of dust collected on it. “Why blame the whole nanaksar mahapurkh's for his(raagi) mistakes????” Singh, Anand CHamatkar was approved by Sant Ishar Singh Jee. Furthermore, you can find Anand CHamatkar still being printed by Nanaksar. So is it still just the fault of one Raagi? “Its not like mahapurkh's have given approval after prof-reading all the volumes??? If you think thats what happened?? Where is your reference???” Reference is Nanaksar itself. I ask Nanaksaris who say this was approved by the Sants. “I dont want to say this but i ll say it anyway. You do have hidden agenda. Its been couple of months i being watching your patterns on the net.” Singh, I don’t have any hidden or open agenda. It’s all in your mind. I don’t expect you do believe me. But whatever I write has a source i.e. books.

n30 SIngh That has nothing to do with how much I respect the DDT Jathadars. Just because I respect someone does not mean I believe every single view they hold. For example: I support, respect and admire Akali Bhai Kartar Singh Jhabbar who was responsible for liberating alot of Gurdwaras of Punjab from the Mahants. But that does not mean I agree with his view that meat eating was alright. That is the way it is with DDT. I respect and agree that they are the greatest Sampradah within the Panth. But I don’t agree that it has a unbroken lineage from the times of Guru Jee. I believe that the greatness is not within the lineage but within the work they do. DDT had proven through it’s work that it’s the greatest sampradah in the Panth. Who could deny that.

SIngh it starts on page 17. The story will start about the Mool Mantar debate, then it will progress onto this Sant Sujaan Singh story. Also, I didn't "Add" Sant Sujaan Singh Jee's name. It was already in there.

Jujharoo, I actually agree with you on the greatness of Sant Gurbachan Singh Jee Bhindrawala. In my opinion he was one of the greatest Pracharaks of the greatest Sampradah. Let me make something clear, I personally do not believe this story. But unfortunately this is what is being propagated at Nanaksar and with the blessings of the Nanaksar Babas many of whom are considers as Avtars of Sri Guru Nanak Dev Jee even by Taksalis! This is one of the main reason I don’t believe that an avtar of Guru Jee could believe such stories about a Singh like Sant Gurbachan Singh Jee. I personally felt angry when I read this about Sant Gurbachan Singh Jee. I thought the admirers of Sant Gurbachan Singh Jee should know and realize this is what is being preached against Sant Jee.