Aparadhee

found topic on old tapoban forum discussing this, some gd points raised: http://www.tapoban.org/phorum/read.php?f=1...180&t=27813 some include: - maharaj has not told us anywhere that we must adhere to bikrami calendar. i.e no written hukam - aparently bikrami calendar is organised by pandits in hardwar, therefore we answer to them when it comes to finalising the dates of our gurpurbs - very gd point made about units of measurements and how we dont use units of measurements like stated in gurbani eg khin, Gharreeyaan and Pehar. question undoubtably arises, are we doing wrong by using modern day measurements like minutes, seconds, kilograms etc ? feel free to do veechar on points mentioned, that thread was a interesting read. another thought also comes to mind, isnt this just another excuse for a boxing match between sant samaj/sampardeh and sgpc and scholars etc?

need someone who will brng all jathe together and someone who all jathe are willing to follow. hey lets just go all out and get malli singhs on the scene!! gurooooooooooooo

i am not saying bani should not be read shudh. it is maharajs apaar kirpa if a person can read shudh bani and they will receive fruit for that. i agree with what you mean about gurmantr changing over time. my personal view is if you want to jap waheguru in kirtan then do it as waheguru. however but now you imply that doing simran of waheguru using the jugti that the punj pyaareh have given you is wrong. is saas saas simran wrong? waheguru is written how its written and we shouldnt change that, bhai gurdas ji has told us what the gurmantr is. but whos to say maharaj didnt give us a jugti or technique of japping it? indeed if maharaj did give us a jugti for japping gurmantr then how can we disclaim this by saying these gursikhs are planting the seed wrongly. yh mahraj may have punished a gursikh for not doing shudh bani, but then why hasnt maharaj slapped every gursikh that does jap naam in this way using this very jugti, but why instead do they feel ras. is every gursikh who reaches avastha of swas swas simran japping naam wrong?or should we walk around saying waheguru waheguru all the time? with your reasoning thats how we should do it. what im trying to get at is, is it not possible that maharaj has given us a jugti, and if so then does it matter if waheguru is said as its written or should we use this jugti instead. i agree that when saying or singing gurmantr in sangat it should be said waheguru, as its written, but then maharaj gives hukam of doing simran swas swas with every breathe. is it not possible that maharaj could have given us a jugti to help us in grishti jeevan, thse are just my thoughts. as i said before i am not saying gurmantr can be japped anyway. all im sayign is maybe maharaj gave us a technique. is it a possiblity? so if someone reads bhai gurdas jis vaars and stumbles across the gurmantr and starts japping it does that mean they have obtained gurmantr? no need to go to amrit sanchar? whats the point of taking amrit if you are revealed gurmantr in bani already. is it not possible that maharaj will teach you how to jap first, give you a jugti. these are just my thoughts i got a feeling this is going to turn in to a naam dridh thread, i have no desire for it to do so. but kam1825 u made some points and im just giving you my measly opinions bhul chuk maaf

Ok the one thing which gets me is that the gurmantar 'Vahiguru' was changed during the time of Bhausuria. This was some how changed to Vah-guru. What is that about!!!!! Hello!!!!!! kam1825: <<<<<<<<<<<<<< in sant harnam singh ji's book se kanhaiya, baba ji mentions a story of a child he took on who couldnt speak and was mentally disabled. baba ji taught him to say waheguru, but as he found it hard to speak at all he could only say "wa gu", day and night he would say it, not knowing what it meant, not knowing why he said it, he just done it because baba ji told him to. after a while this disabled boys speech and hearing improved, and he even began to experience gurmat anhad shabad, hearing of divine celestial music at the dasam duaar. this innocent devotee didnt have a clue what he was hearing and would run up to the tops of houses and ask others whether they can hear the "baajeh". they thought he went crazy but baba ji knew he was experiencing the fruit from his jap of gurmantr. now this boy japped "wa gu" which sounds a darn sight worse than "wahguru", how come he got fruit from his labour, how come he acheived anhad shabad? a state that alot of us including papis like me will never achieve in lifetimes. you say that reciting gurmantr wrong is kachi bani and that if you plant the seed wrong then you will attain the wrong fruit. how can you make this claim when there have been very many gurmukhs who have tasted amrit ras while japping gurmantr this way. if you have not tasted ras thru this method then dont judge others and say what they do is wrong, you have not got a clue what these people are feeling and yet you belittle their efforts of japping naam because they dont do it "shudh". im sorry if it sounds like an attack on you, but i have had the kirpa of maharaj to do sangat with gurmukhs who have attained very high avastha thru what you would call "planting the wrong seed" and an attack on them is totally uncalled for. you dont need to be blatent in your attacks on jathebandis, next time keep it subtle so we dont notice. :-)

Once upon a time, there was a Guroo Pyaara who was about to get married. He was very excited and nervous, but also he looked foward to meeting his Guru. Then suddenly,something appeared before him ... it's david beckham!

i agree

khalistan zindabad jio, thanks for clarifying that, now the question is why is a bindi at the top, meaning to add nunna sound acceptable in maangeh for example? when on another hand we are saying we should never put bindi on charan to change sabad to shabad for example. if we pronounce maageh as maangeh or indeed deeda deh, leeehndeh thak paaheh, surely we are changing gurbani and not reading gurbani how it is written by maharaj. so why does taksal accept adding bindi in this case and so strictly rejects placing bindi in charan of akhar. surely the same rule of pronouncing gurbani how its written should apply to all situations? bhull chuk maaf

jo mwgih Twkur Apuny qy soeI soeI dyvY ] jo maagehi t(h)aakur apunae thae soee soee dhaevai || Whatever I ask for from my Lord and Master, he gives that to me pretty sure sant gurbachan singh ji used to pronounce maageh as maangeh, is that not adding to gurbani then just like adding a bindi? if im wrong then i accept it, but just interested to know whether this was indeed the case. either way maageh isnt a word it makes sense if its maangeh wahegurooo

Amazing gursikh, a singh truely worthy of tieing a farla

chardi kala nihung jatha, i duno why they were sitting outside and not inside the darbar like everyone else. chalo they missed out on laha. it was a great programme.

photos/video? guroo

waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh If a person never takes amrit then they have wasted a lifetime. the supreme fruits of naam japna can only be experienced after taking amrit. however that is not to say that non amritdharis should not jap naam. like khalistan zindabad said the more a person japs naam/gurbani before taking amrit, the more rehit the abhlaaki keeps in preperation then this will be useful. if we emerse ourselves in naam and gurbani before amrit sanchar then surely we wil be blessed by mahraj. however amrit is like opening a bank account. the naam you jap is your money that you save. if you have not opened the bank account then how can you save the money? taking amrit is essential, and we all hope to have wahegurus jis darshan and to merge back in to waheguru. if we reject the most important thing that satguru sri guru granth sahib ji has given us... amrit then how can we hope to achieve these goals? so japping naam for a non-ad is not worthless as it will eventually bring them closer to amrit. however if we have not taken amrit and recieved naam then how can we jap it effectively and receive the highest fruits of our labour? mukhahu har har sabh ko karai viralai hiradhai vasaaeiaa || Everyone can chant the Name of the Lord, Har, Har with their mouths, but only a few enshrine it within their hearts. naanak jin kai hiradhai vasiaa mokh mukath thinh paaeiaa ||8||2|| O Nanak, those who enshrine the Lord within their hearts, attain liberation and emancipation. japping naam aint just about saying it, anybody can 'jap naam' like the above gurbani states, many other people from other faiths do this and have been doing this for ages, without satguru we cannot receive or enshrine the true naam gurmantr. satguru is jyot of 10 guru sahibans sri guru granth sahib ji. if everything was ok and all other dharams could jap naam effectively n reach waheguru then what was the need for guru nanak dev ji to come to this earth? the fact is in this age of kalyug only satguru nanak can save us no1 else. sabh thae vaddaa sathigur naanak jin kal raakhee maeree ||4||10||57|| Guru Nanak is the greatest of all; He saved my honor in this Dark Age of Kali Yuga. ||4||10||57|| bin sathigur saevae bahuthaa dhukh laagaa jug chaarae bharamaaee || Without serving the True Guru, he suffers in terrible pain, and throughout the four ages, he wanders aimlessly. ham dheen thum jug jug dhaathae sabadhae dhaehi bujhaaee ||1|| I am poor and meek, and throughout the ages, You are the Great Giver - please, grant me the understanding of the Shabad. ||1|| har jeeo kirapaa karahu thum piaarae || O Dear Beloved Lord, please show mercy to me. sathigur dhaathaa mael milaavahu har naam dhaevahu aadhhaarae || rehaao || Unite me in the Union of the True Guru, the Great Giver, and give me the support of the Lord's Name. ||Pause|| naam can only be obtained from satguru ji no1 else, satguru ji has been present thorughout the ages but in this worst age of kalyug there was a need for guru nanak dev ji the highest of all to enter the world and give us gurmat n gurmantr. without maharaj we have no hope. mahrajs first hukam is to accept the path. jo tho praem khaelan kaa chaao || If you desire to play this game of love with Me, sir dhhar thalee galee maeree aao || then step onto My Path with your head in hand. if we do not give our head to mahraj then what hope do we have of crossing this world ocean? we need a boat n thats naam, without taking amrit the naam inside us is not enlightened and we carry on wandering in darkness. the naam drih issue has been going on for ages n its getting boring now, if you want to understand naam drih completely then receive it. people that have not experienced it cannot comment on it and its fruits. even without naam drih naam abhyaas is fruitful so just carry on jappin naam. one day hopefully we wil get to a stage where we can truely jap naam with every breath n forever stay in naam ras. these are just my humble opinions. bhull chuk maaf waheguroooo