Bijla Singh

Guru Sahib did not make maala mandatory. One has to attach mind to the Shabad dhunni. No need for maala except for counting. This is history. You are welcome to provide other proofs and explain what really happened. When Panj Pyare came forward they asked Guru Sahib to leave the fort and Guru Sahib having great respect for the tradition he had established and to show the authority of Panj Pyare in the Panth left the fort. Whether it was hukam or request, one thin gis clear that Panj Pyare tradition is important and Guru Roop. When Baba Banda Singh was given Amrit, Panj Pyare administered it not Guru Sahib alone. Baba Banda Singh was also accompanied by Panj Pyare to Punjab. Try to understand. Nanak became Angad which means it happened by transfer of the Jot. Guru Nanak Sahib’s body lived some weeks after Guru Angad Ji became Guru. All Gurus called themselves “Nanak” and without the Jot Nanak no one was Guru. This Jot passed on to the Shabad in 1708. But it proves that Gurbani is the truth and Guru Granth Sahib is compilation of Gurbani. Do you know what the word “granth” means? Satguru is always with us which means only Shabad can be everywhere not a human. Since Guru Granth Sahib is all Gurbani, it is the true Guru. Shabad has always been the Guru because it is the revealed Bani of Akal Purakh. Body was not the Guru. Sikhs bowed to body only when Jot resided in it. No one bowed to Bhai Lehna Ji or Bhai Jetha Ji but when Jot Nanak entered their bodies, they became Satguru. Remember how Guru Arjan Dev Ji sat and slept on the floor while Gurbani was kept at a higher place and how Guru Harrai Ji abandoned his son for altering one word of Gurbani. This shows your lack of understanding. Guru Gobind Singh Ji is explaining to Bhai Nand Laal Ji that His (guru’s) roop is the Granth (Guru Granth Sahib). Bhai Nand Laal Ji is writing about Gurmat and rehat which makes it crystal clear that Granth refers to Guru Granth Sahib. Bhai Nand Lal Ji never wrote a granth of his own. What does “rehat of granth” means then? Granth is collection of Gurbani. The line means that rehat must be practiced according to what Guru Granth Sahib says not what a human says. Why did you ignore other important references. Pay attention to these lines: ਪ੍ਰਤਖਯ ਕਲਾ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਧਣੀ ਛੈ, ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਪੰਥ ਖਾਲਸਾ ਵਰਤੰਤਾ । ਦਾਸ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਫਤਿਹ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕੀ, ਖਾਲਸਾ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਗੁਰ ਰੂਪ ਬਦੰਤਾ । (ਸਰਬਲੋਹ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ) ਪੋਥੀ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਮਹਲ ਦਸ ਬਾਨੀ । ਸੋਧ ਲਹੋ ਪਦ ਜੋ ਨਿਰਬਾਨੀ । (ਗੁਰ ਬਿਲਾਸ ਪਾਤਿਸਾਹੀ 10, ਸੁੱਖਾ ਸਿੰਘ) ਤਬ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਸਿੰਘ ਕਹਿਆ: ਜੋ ਮੇਰਾ ਸਿਖ ਹੋਵੈਗਾ ਸੋ ਖਾਲਸੇ ਥੀਂ ਬਗੈਰੁ ਹੋਰਥੈ ਪ੍ਰਤੀਤ ਨ ਕਰਸੀ । ਅਤੈ ਜਿਥੇ ਸ਼ਬਦੁ ਹੋਵੈ ਤਿਥੈ ਪੂਜਾ ਕਰਨੀ You need to prove that Gurbani advocates human guru. Guru Nanak Sahib preached nirgun worship through Satguru who is always alive and does not die. Satguru is Akal Purakh himself and both are the same. I can provide numerous tuks from Gurbani which prove it beyond the doubt. Gurbani also says that there is only one Satguru in the world and that is Guru Sahib. Gurbani was written by a human body but it was revealed by Akal Purakh and still the physical body holds no significance in Sikhi. Guru Sahib never said that human body is the guru. He said that Shabad which lives forever is the true guru since it is the roop of Akal Purakh. In Sidh Goast Guru Ji says “Shabad Guru Surat Dhun Chela..”. Bani was written by Bhai Gurdas Ji but no one worships him. Mohsan Fani says the same thing that Nanak lives on. Ponder upon it. Again, when did Guru Angad Dev Ji become Guru and when did Guru Amardas Ji become Guru? Clearly, when Jot Nanak entered. When they became Nanak is when they became Guru. They were revered as Gurus because they spoke the Shabad. Bhai Gurdas JI says: ਥਾਪਿਆ ਲਹਿਣਾ ਜੀਂਵਦੇ ਗੁਰਿਆਈ ਸਿਰ ਛਤ੍ਰ ਫਿਰਾਯਾ॥ ਜੋਤੀ ਜੋਤ ਮਿਲਾਇਕੈ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਨਾਨਕ ਰੂਪ ਵਟਾਯਾ॥ ਲਖ ਨ ਕੋਈ ਸਕਈ ਆਚਰਜੇ ਆਚਰਜ ਦਿਖਾਯਾ॥ ਕਾਯਾਂ ਪਲਟ ਸਰੂਪ ਬਣਾਯਾ ॥45॥ During his life time he waved the canopy of Guru Seat on the head of Lahina (Guru Angad) and merged his own light into him. Guru Nanak now transformed himself. This mystery is incomprehensible for anybody that awe-inspiring (Nanak) accomplished a wonderful task. He converted (his body) into a new form. (Bhai Gurdas Ji) In next pauri he makes it clear who the Guru is. Is it body or the Shabad? He says: You should practice sustained mentation (dhyan) on the Shabad (Word), and consider it alone to be the image or statue of the Guru who is always with you. The seekers who are Guru-oriented acquire the knowledge of the Guru’s Word. This way they do not leave any space or distance between them and the Guru. (Bhai Gurdas, Vaar 3, Pauri 10) The Word of the Guru is the image for worship; the Guru-oriented Sikhs listen to it and make use of the holy congregation as the metaphoric seat of the formless Creator. (Bhai Gurdas, Vaar 2, Pauri 11) The Word of the guru is the physical body of the Guru. It becomes perceptible in the holy congregation. (Bhai Gurdas, Vaar 24, Pauri 25) Clearly, Shabad was the Guru when Bhai Gurdas Ji wrote his Vaars. Shabad is the true image of Guru Nanak Sahib. See the facts yourself. Nowhere does Gurbani mention Raam Singh, Balak Singh or Jagjit Singh as the Guru. Human body is considered temporary and not given any significance. You are mistaken. This is the false propaganda of Naamdharis. Guru Raam Das Ji wrote this shabad. He clearly says that Bani is the Guru in which all amrit are present. Clearly he is not advocating human guru but Bani Guru. He is not advocating his own physical body but the Shabad. If you think it refers to human guru then what is the translation of the entire shabad? Have you ever read the entire shabad in its context and did some veechar. Pay close attention to some important panktis in this shabad. ਬਨੁ ਬਨੁ ਢੂਢਿ ਢੂਢਿ ਫਿਰਿ ਥਾਕੀ ਗੁਰਿ ਪੂਰੈ ਘਰਿ ਨਿਸਤਾਰੇ ॥4॥ Wandering, rambling and roaming through the forests and woods, I exhausted myself, and then in my own home, the Perfect Guru saved me. ||4|| Who is the “Perfect Guru” that saved him? Next line makes it clear: ਬਾਣੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੁਰੂ ਹੈ ਬਾਣੀ ਵਿਚਿ ਬਾਣੀ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਸਾਰੇ ॥ The Word, the Bani is Guru, and Guru is the Bani. Within the Bani, the Ambrosial Nectar is contained. Gurbani is the true Guru not a human body. It was the Shabad Guru that saved him not human guru Raam Singh or Jagjjt Singh because only Shabad is everywhere. Next line (which you misinterpreted) says: ਗੁਰੁ ਬਾਣੀ ਕਹੈ ਸੇਵਕੁ ਜਨੁ ਮਾਨੈ ਪਰਤਖਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਨਿਸਤਾਰੇ ॥5॥ Whatever Gurbani says (ਗੁਰੁ ਬਾਣੀ ਕਹੈ), the humble devotee follows (ਸੇਵਕੁ ਜਨੁ ਮਾਨੈ) and then (what happens?) Guru (Gurbani) grants (in reality) muktee to the Sikh. Translation in Punjabi agreed by all Sikh scholars is as follows: ਗੁਰੂ ਦਾ ਸੇਵਕ (ਸਿੱਖ) ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ 'ਤੇ ਸ਼ਰਧਾ ਰੱਖਦਾ ਹੈ ਅਤੇ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਦੇ ਕਹੇ ਉੱਤੇ ਚੱਲਦਾ ਹੈ । ਇਸ ਨਾਲ ਗੁਰੂ ਪ੍ਰਗਟ ਤੌਰ ਤੇ (ਪ੍ਰਤੱਖ ਤੌਰ ਤੇ ਯਾਨੀ ਯਕੀਨੀ ਤੌਰ ਤੇ) ਸੇਵਕ ਦਾ ਪਾਰ ਉਤਾਰਾ (ਨਿਸਤਾਰਾ ਭਾਵ ਮੁਕਤੀ) ਕਰ ਦਿੰਦਾ ਹੈ । Word ਪਰਤਖਿ means ਸਚਮੁੱਚ ਨਾ ਕਿ ਦੇਹ ਵਿਚ ਪ੍ਰਗਟ ਹੋ ਕੇ. Your misinterpretation is contradictory. If we assume that “partakh” refers to human guru then why does the Shabad declare Gurbani the true Guru in first line? Gurbani is the true Guru that saves then what is use of human to appear? Shabad says: ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਕਰਿ ਭਗਤਿ ਦ੍ਰਿੜਾਏ ਜਨ ਪੀਛੈ ਜਗੁ ਨਿਸਤਾਰੇ ॥7॥ When Waheguru does kirpa, he saves the devotee by blessing him with bhagtee. Bhagtee cannot be done without contemplating upon Naam (Shabad) which is in Gurbani. Human body is clearly missing from the entire Shabad. Your translation simply doesn’t fit the context of the Shabad. Present to me your version of translation backed by any credible Sikh scholar and then we will discuss it. Because Jot Nanak resided in the body. Guru Granth Sahib was called “Pothi Sahib” before it was given gurugaddi. Don’t start throwing silly questions now. It means wherever the Shabad Guru is present in partakh but doesn’t mention that physical body has to be there. It doesn’t mention raam singh or jagjit singh. Wherever saroop of Guru Sahib goes, that place becomes holy. ਆਪੇ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਸਬਦੁ ਹੈ ਆਪੇ ॥ He is the Satguru and the Shabad. Bhai Gurdas Ji says: ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਮੈ ਸਬਦ ਸਬਦ ਮੈ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਹੈ ਨਿਰਗੁਨ ਗਿਆਨ ਧਿਆਨ ਸਮਝਾਵੈ ਜੀ ॥534॥ In Vaars of Bhai Gurdas Ji, he narrates that Sikhs asked Guru Hargobind Ji about how many more bodies will the Jot adopt and Guru Sahib replies 4 more and then Shabad will stay as the Guru. Read Bhai Veer Singh’s teeka of pauri “Jug Jug Satguru Dharay Avtaari”. This proves that after Guru Gobind Singh Ji, guruship did not continue in human form. Gurbani doesn’t mention human gurus nor does it advocate them. You have not provided a single Shabad to prove otherwise. Why do you believe in Gurbani if you believe in human guru? Gurbani says Satguru never sleeps and never comes and goes. Naamdhari gurus have died and are in cycle of reincarnation. No proof exists which backs up their flimsy stories.

Provide proof. He may come back but not as Raam Singh because the body has been destroyed. His soul may have entered in another body and right now he could be in his third birth. But once one dies, they never come back as the same person. Blue is a royal color and not a Muslim color. Peers wear green color which is forbidden in Sikhi. Prove that blue is Muslim color and what significance does it hold for them? Word “Neel” in Kashmiri language means green. You did not respond to my points about white color. Why? Muslims wear white to hajj and all high officials in Islam wear white. Why are you trying to please them? Nehru wore white his entire political life. Are you trying to please him? Maala is not a kakkar and Guru Sahib did not advocate keeping maala. Remembering Waheguru all the time and keeping his name in your heart is the real maala. That was my point. Don’t judge entire community base don few people’s personal stories. Deal with facts. Discuss beliefs and principles not people. Bhagat Jaswant Singh wrote a pothi in which he gives names of Panj Pyare. This tradition was not started in 1699. Every Guru had five beloved Sikhs. Guru Sahib was accompanied by many Sikhs in udasis. Their names are well written in janamsakhis. Guru Arjan Dev Ji had Baba Buddha Ji, Bhai Gurdas JI, Bhai Manjh Ji, Bhai Behlo Ji etc. Guru Hargobind Ji had Baba Buddha Ji, Bhai Gurdas Ji, Bhai Bidhi Chand Ji and other Sikhs. Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji went to Delhi with five Sikhs. Three became shaheed and two brought back the sees. Guru Harkrishan Ji went to Delhi with five Sikhs. I have explained to you before but for some reason you don’t want to face the facts. Shabad has always been the Guru not a human body. This is why every Guru calls himself “Nanak” because Nanak is Jot of Akal Purakh which now resides in Shabad. Mohsan Fani states that it is firm belief of Sikhs that Guru Nanak never died but became Angad and this way Nanak lives on. Bhai Gurdas Ji says the same. Consider following quotes: ਜੋਤਿ ਓਹਾ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਸਾਇ ਸਹਿ ਕਾਇਆ ਫੇਰਿ ਪਲਟੀਐ ॥ They shared the One Light and the same way; the King just changed His body. (Ang 966) ਥਾਪਿਆ ਲਹਿਣਾ ਜੀਂਵਦੇ ਗੁਰਿਆਈ ਸਿਰ ਛਤ੍ਰ ਫਿਰਾਯਾ॥ ਜੋਤੀ ਜੋਤ ਮਿਲਾਇਕੈ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਨਾਨਕ ਰੂਪ ਵਟਾਯਾ॥ ਲਖ ਨ ਕੋਈ ਸਕਈ ਆਚਰਜੇ ਆਚਰਜ ਦਿਖਾਯਾ॥ ਕਾਯਾਂ ਪਲਟ ਸਰੂਪ ਬਣਾਯਾ ॥45॥ During his life time he waved the canopy of Guru Seat on the head of Lahina (Guru Angad) and merged his own light into him. Guru Nanak now transformed himself. This mystery is incomprehensible for anybody that awe-inspiring (Nanak) accomplished a wonderful task. He converted (his body) into a new form. (Bhai Gurdas Ji) Gurbani is the true Guru. Here is why: ਬਾਣੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੁਰੂ ਹੈ ਬਾਣੀ ਵਿਚਿ ਬਾਣੀ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਸਾਰੇ ॥ The Word, the Bani is Guru, and Guru is the Bani. Within the Bani, the Ambrosial Nectar is contained. (Ang 982) ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਸਤਿ ਸਤਿ ਕਰਿ ਜਾਣਹੁ ਗੁਰਸਿਖਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਕਰਤਾ ਆਪਿ ਮੁਹਹੁ ਕਢਾਏ ॥ O GurSikhs, know that the Bani, the Word of the True Guru, is true, absolutely true. The Creator Lord Himself causes the Guru to chant it. (Ang 308) True Guru never takes birth and never dies. He doesn’t sleep, get hungry etc. He is with His Sikhs all the time. A human takes birth and dies and can only be at one place at a time. ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਮੇਰਾ ਸਦਾ ਸਦਾ ਨਾ ਆਵੈ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥ My True Guru, forever and ever, does not come and go. (Ang 759) Gurbani rejects human guru. One who himself is in the cycle of death and birth cannot save others. One being born in a human body is the clear proof that he is not mukat and therefore cannot give muktee. Shabad always lives on. Shabad is the spirit of Akal Purakh and embodiment of Guru Sahib. It is the power of Shabad that transformed depressed and oppressed people into saint-warriors. Proofs that Guru Granth Sahib is Guru. ਦੂਸਰ ਰੂਪ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਜੀ ਜਾਨਹੁ । ਆਪਨ ਅੰਗ ਮੇਰੇ ਕਰ ਮਾਨਹੁ । ਰੋਮ ਰੋਮ ਅੱਛਰ ਸੋ ਲਹਹੁ । ਬਾਤ ਜਥਾਰਥ ਤੁਮ ਸੋਂ ਕਹਹੁੰ । ਜੋ ਸਿਖ ਗੁਰ ਦਰਸ਼ਨ ਕੀ ਚਾਹਿ । ਦਰਸ਼ਨ ਕਰੇ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਜੀ ਆਹਿ ।… ਜੋ ਮਮ ਸਾਥ ਚਹੇ ਕਰਿ ਬਾਤ । ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਜੀ ਪੜ੍ਹੈ ਬਿਚਾਰਹਿ ਸਾਥ । ਜੋ ਮੁਝ ਬਚਨ ਸੁਨਨ ਕੀ ਚਾਹਿ । ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਵਿਚਾਰ ਸੁਨਹੁ ਚਿਤ ਲਾਇ । ਮੇਰਾ ਰੂਪ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਜੀ ਜਾਨ । ਇਸ ਮੇਂ ਭੇਦ ਨ ਰੰਚਕ ਮਾਨ । ਤੀਸਰ ਰੂਪ ਸਿਖ ਹੈ ਮੋਰ । ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਰਤਿ ਜਿਹ ਨਿਸ ਭੋਰ । (ਭਾਈ ਨੰਦ ਲਾਲ ਜੀ) “The Granth is my second self and should be taken as such for me. A Sikh who wants to see me should a look at the Granth Sahib. One who wishes to talk to me should read the Granth and contemplate over it. One who is anxious to listen to me talk, he or she should read the Granth Sahib and listen to its recitation with attention. Consider the Granth as my own self. Have not the least doubt about it.” ਪ੍ਰਤਖਯ ਕਲਾ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਧਣੀ ਛੈ, ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਪੰਥ ਖਾਲਸਾ ਵਰਤੰਤਾ । ਦਾਸ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਫਤਿਹ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕੀ, ਖਾਲਸਾ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਗੁਰ ਰੂਪ ਬਦੰਤਾ । (ਸਰਬਲੋਹ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ) ਮੌਰ ਬਚਨ ਸੋ ਕਰਹੁ ਪਯਾਰਾ । ਖੜਗ ਕੇਤੁ ਹੌ ਰੱਛਕ ਥਾਰਾ । ਝੂਠੇ ਸਰਬ ਉਪਾਵ ਤਿਆਗਹੁ । ਸ੍ਰੀ ਅਸਿਧੁਜ ਕੀ ਚਰਨੀ ਲਾਗਹੁ । ਪੋਥੀ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਮਹਲ ਦਸ ਬਾਨੀ । ਸੋਧ ਲਹੋ ਪਦ ਜੋ ਨਿਰਬਾਨੀ । ਸ਼ਸਤ੍ਰ ਅਸਤ੍ਰ ਸਿਮਰਹੁ ਬਰ ਬੁਧਾ । ਖਲ ਦਲ ਸਾਥ ਕਰਹੁ ਨਿਤ ਜੁੱਧਾ । (ਗੁਰ ਬਿਲਾਸ ਪਾਤਿਸਾਹੀ 10, ਸੁੱਖਾ ਸਿੰਘ) ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਪਾਹੁਲ ਸਿਖ ਲੇਇ, ਰਹਤ ਕਮਾਵਹਿ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ । ਜੋ ਬੇੜਾ ਸੋ ਸੇਵਿਆ, ਔਰ ਨ ਭਰਮਹਿ ਪੰਥ । (ਰਹਿਤਨਾਮਾ ਭਾਈ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਸਿੰਘ) ਤਬ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਸਿੰਘ ਕਹਿਆ: ਜੋ ਮੇਰਾ ਸਿਖ ਹੋਵੈਗਾ ਸੋ ਖਾਲਸੇ ਥੀਂ ਬਗੈਰੁ ਹੋਰਥੈ ਪ੍ਰਤੀਤ ਨ ਕਰਸੀ । ਅਤੈ ਜਿਥੇ ਸ਼ਬਦੁ ਹੋਵੈ ਤਿਥੈ ਪੂਜਾ ਕਰਨੀ, ਹੋਰ ਮੜ੍ਹੀ ਮਸਾਣੀ ਨਹੀ ਜਾਵਣਾ । ਪੰਡਤ ਪਾਂਧੇ ਮੀਏਂ ਮਹਤੇ ਦੀ ਮਤ ਨਹੀ ਲੈਣੀ ਅਤੇ ਜੋ ਮੇਰਾ ਹੋਸੀ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦਿ ਥੀਂ ਸਿਵਾਇ ਕਰਮ ਕਿਰਿਆ, ਭਦਣੁ, ਉਸਤਰਾ ਨਹੀ ਲਾਵਣਾ । ਗਾਇਤ੍ਰੀ, ਤਰਪਣੁ ਪੂਜਾ, ਅਰਚਾ, ਧੋਤੀ ਬੰਨ੍ਹ ਕੇ, ਸਿਰੀਂ ਨੰਗਾ ਖਾਵਣਾ ਨਾਹੀ । ਨੰਗੀ ਬੋਦੀ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣ ਅਗੈ ਬੈਠਣਾ ਨਾਹੀ । ਜੋ ਕੋਈ ਸਿਖੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਕਾ ਹੋਸੀ ਸੋ ਇਤਨੀਆਂ ਵਸਤੂਆਂ ਦੇ ਨੇੜੇ ਨਾ ਆਵਸੀ । (ਸਾਖੀ ਰਹਿਤ ਕੀ ਭਾਈ ਨੰਦ ਲਾਲ ਜੀ) Now you prove that Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave gurugaddi to any human in 1708.

Did you confirm this in any way? What about the delusion that Bhai Raam Singh will come back and is still alive? Nonetheless, if blue color was against Gurmat then Guru Sahib would never have worn it. Keep in mind that it is kalyug and not satyug so why wear a color of different yug? When Muslims go to hajj they all wear white clothes. So white is a Muslim holy color. Blue color is a royal color which is why Sikhs wear it. Islamic color is green which is worn by peers. White is worn by high officials and leaders. Take a look at Saudi leaders, qazis and osama bin laden. None of them wear blue. .Blue and black are used as metaphors to represent ninda and chuglee. Read the next lines and it will make sense. Color red is used to represent glow of naam then why don't you wear red? It is contradictory statement. If maala is the real weapon then why have a kirpan? What political reasons are there to justify carrying kirpan. Guru Gobind Singh Ji made it mandatory for all Sikhs to carry kirpans not for political reasons but for the sake of protecting sainthood otherwise the fate will be that of Buddhism. Naamdharis are like seasonal frogs who will eventually disappear once the season of Hindu government passes. A friend of my uncle once went to Hong Kong and told me a funny story: Some new visitors came to the Gurdwara and stayed there. They were naamdharis and wished to go to a “special massage” place. Their excuse was that they wanted to test their chastity. When the girls started giving them massage they started shouting loudly “satguru raam singha hunn nahin reha janda, horr ni wait hundee” and then they did bajjar kurehats and kept shouting “dhan satguru raam singh”. What good did the maala do then? Total pakhand. Panj Pyare tradition was started by Guru Nanak Sahib Ji and every Guru kept Panj Pyare. Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave Amrit to five Sikhs first and took Amrit from them. The tradition of giving Naam was kept alive by giving gurugaddi to Granth and panth. No human was appointed. Can you provide proofs from 18th century to back up your claims? Why not discuss the principles and beliefs rather than questioning people’s actions. Otherwise I can bring out misdeeds of many naamdharis but that wouldn’t do anything. If you believe in Gurbani then why follow a human guru who will die eventually and then you will have to find another one. Gurbani itself speaks against human gurus and your guru jagjit raam and is simply a puppet of the government. In Sikh kingdom he wouldn’t last a second. Naamdharis are not Sikhs. I assume you are not mixing 'Sukhnidhaan' with Bhang? If you are, please provide some reference. Some Nihungs prepare shardayee and call if Sukhnidhaan but bhang is not mixed in it. Gurbani calls Waheguru the real Sukhnidhaan and speaks against bhang. http://www.amritworld.com/main/articles/cannabis/

Only Guru Sahib knows when it is the right time for Sikhs to have their own country. It could be tomorrow or in 100 years.

Chandi Di Vaar, Chrittars, Chaubis Avtar are all based on mythology. Guru Sahib's purpose was to use these stories and give us morals not to authenticate these stories. There is nothing wrong with using a fake story to deliver the message. Gurbani and Vaars do the same. Purpose of kali avtar story is that no matter how powerful one becomes at the end they will be destroyed by kaal. It is a mythical belief amongst Muslims that Meer Mehdi will come before the Day of Judgment and convert everyone to Islam and destroy non-Muslims. Clearly, Sikhi rejects judgment day and relying on any future prophecies. I find it ironic that a hindu deity will come and then a Muslim warrior who will rule for thousands of years but if it is all true then where does that leave Khalsa and Khalsa Raj? I suggest you read kalki avtar in proper context.

Do you really think kalki will come? Chaubis Avtar is based on mythology and kalki avtar is mixture of Hindu and Muslim mythology. No one will come since greatest of all Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is already here. Even if any avtar comes, he will bow down to Satguru. Khalsa Raj will come for sure.

I personally think it is better for Sikhs that he is gone. He caused enough damage to Sikhi.

The entire granth has been published and referenced in many books. It depends on where you look. Here is some info on it: http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showtopic=38445&hl= Keep in mind that Soochak Parsang Guru Ka written by Bhai Behlo Ji and Bhai Binod Singh Da Granth are also unknown to the Panth but these granths have wealth of information about Gurmat and Sikh history. Eye witness account of Bhai Taru Singh Ji exists. Original document of Farukhsiyar putting price on Sikhs' heads exists and could be bought for 5 rupees in 1905. We have not done much to preserve our history.

You can read Jangnama of Noor Mohammad, Military System of the Sikhs by Fauja Singh and History of Sikh Misls by Bhagat Singh. Wealth of information about Sikh military and war strategies. There are many books which give some highlights of Sikh warfare but are not specific for this topic only. Ganda Singh's books like Jassa Singh Ahluwalia and Ahmad Shah Duranni are good ones. For reading biographies of Sikhs, I recommend reading Baba Prem Singh Hoti's books. Sohan Singh Seetal's books about Khalsa Raj are also excellent.

I agree with you. My point was that Jahangir used excuse of Khusro which is not true. It was due to his fanaticism and to arrest and execute a religious figure that was very popular he needed much more of a reason other than his personal dislike. So he justified himself by using political means (Khusro) and when later faced by Guru Sahib and to save his public reputation he blamed Chandu. I agree that both are at fault. Without Chandu and Bhagwaan Das, Jahangir could not have had any excuse to justify himself.

Jahangir did not have his facts rights. He was greatly influenced by Muslim fanatics and Hindu pundits. He was filled with hatred against non-Muslims. When he heard that Guru Arjan Dev Ji were converting Muslims and Hindus in large numbers and even Mian Mir had become His devotee, he became mad in anger. This is when he wrote in his diary that he had wishes to close “jhoot di dukaan” but had no reasons to take actions. He had heard numerous complaints before but there were no reasons to take action as the complaints were mostly found false or were regarding gaddi not given to Prithi Chand. Khusro just happened to pass through Punjab but never met Guru Sahib (controversial point). I do not believe he met Guru Sahib or Guru Sahib ever blessed him by putting tilak on his forehead. The reason is that when Jahangir himself was taking a tour of the country and punishing everyone who helped or met Khusro, he did not take any action against Guru Sahib while he was in Lahore and nearby Amritsar. He stayed in the area for more than a month but not once did he receive any complaint about Guru Sahib meeting Khusro. One can read Bhai Veer Singh Ji’s analysis on it for more details but Jahangir had no evidence. When he left Punjab and went back to Delhi, he received complaints from Chandu, Bhagwaan Das and other Brahmins against Guru Sahib and they accused Guru Ji of blessing Khusro. The reason was obvious, denying Chandu’s daughter’s marriage with Guru Hargobind Ji. One must keep in mind that Jahangir had punished everyone found guilty of helping Khusro. Prisoners were burnt alive, fed to dogs alive, chopped up in pieces and sewn alive etc. and the matter of Khusro was over. Guru Sahib remained out of the picture. Then suddenly he receives complaints and only when Khusro’s name was mentioned, Jahangir found the excuse to arrest Guru Sahib and fulfill his mission. He ordered the arrest and he ordered the execution. He picked the punishment which was usually given to religious figures: death without spilling blood. Later on, he met sixth Guru Sahib who explained everything to Jahangir in details and made him realize that he had made a mistake. Guru Sahib called him “kanna da kacha” and gave him a lecture on how responsible, sensible and fair a ruler must be. Jahangir apologized and to clean up his reputation he handed over Chandu to Guru Sahib. He wanted people to see him the same way they looked at Akbar. Chandu was punished and killed by Guru Sahib. ਚੰਦੂ ਜੈਸੇ ਪਾਪੀ ਨੱਥ ਪਾ ਕੇ ਮਾਰੇ ਸੀ ਚਬਾ ਤੇ ਲੋਹੇ ਦੇ ਚਣੇ । Both are responsible for the martyrdom. Chandu did chuglee and sought revenge for his “insults” and Jahangir wanted to stop the mass conversion of Muslims. While I hold both guilty, Chandu and his Brahmin associates were the real culprits and instigators. We know for a fact that Guru Sahib’s property was not seized and his family was not arrested. Kala Afghana makes an argument that since Jahangir ordered the seize, the army would’ve confiscated the Adi Granth as well and therefore Sikhs need to prove why the current Guru Granth Sahib is authentic and what are its sources and proofs of authenticity. He assumed everything Jahangir wrote is correct but Jahangir is writing on hearsay and everything he wrote was not true and did not come true. If property was not seized, family was not arrested and Darbar Sahib was not seized then what evidence did he have that Khusro did actually meet Guru Sahib? He believed Chandu and Bhagwaan Das and had no facts. I did not find anything about this in Persian sources. Perhaps you should mention which particular article you are referencing from those books.

Replace the word meat with maas. Gurbani says we are made of maas.

Question: Guru Ji, what is the purpose behind ਮਾਸੁ ਮਾਸੁ ਕਰਿ ਮੂਰਖੁ ਝਗੜੇ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਨਹੀ ਜਾਣੈ ॥ and who is called Moorakh? Answer: The Shabad was originally addressed to pundits who viewed vegetarianism as the only religious act and a way of purification. They hated meat and hated to eat it yet did not hesitate at all to sacrifice animals in the name of God. These same pundits acted like pure holy men and being modest by hating maas and preparing their own food in their special “chownka” or kitchen. On the other hand, they ate meat prepared by Muslims at their palaces. These pundits ate kuttha bakra of “malecha” and yet claimed to be pure by not letting anyone enter their kitchens. They were blinded by their rituals and were total hypocrites. This is why they are called “moorakh” because they do not know gyan or dheyan. Hence, ਗਿਆਨੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਕਛੁ ਸੂਝੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਚਤੁਰੁ ਕਹਾਵੈ ਪਾਂਡੇ ॥ Why hate meat since everything (mom, dad, self, wife, children etc) are also meat. It doesn’t mean one has the right to eat meat but simply means one should not hate the creation. Everything has Jot of Waheguru. One should not consider meat itself to be impure nor is it in anyway a religious belief to hate it because everything is meat including our own body. One should not be hypocrite by calling himself a holy man and then committing immoral acts behind closed doors. If one wants to eat meat on the basis on this Shabad then eating of mom, dad, wife, children etc is also acceptable. Not a single pankti gives permission to the reader to eat meat. In fact, the entire shabad is not about eating or not eating meat. Moral of the Shabad is that one must practice the truth, never hate anything including meat, see Jot of Waheguru in every being and one becomes a true bhagat by rising above worldly pleasures and tastes. A Sikh must have less sleep and less to eat simple food and never indulge in taste.

Those who become Sikhs do not belong to any caste. Either one is a Sikh or chamaar, jatt etc. Chooray Chamaars are those who are causing riots, those who wanted to attack Darbar Sahib because their fake baba was shot dead and those who do not consider themselves Sikhs, do not believe in Guru Granth Sahib but elevate Bhagat Ravidas to the level of Satguru. Bani of Bhagat Ji is Guru and I asked ravidasi chumaar to not use Gurbani which he doesn't believe in to defend his point. He rather use ravidasi sources or at least Bani of Bhagat Ji which means that even Bhagat Ravidas Ji does not support his beliefs. I think it should be clear enough for you now.

Once again, these chamaars have nothing else to do but copy Sikhs. Now they want to copy Darbar Sahib. I hardly doubt chamaars have that much gold but I think their masters government officials will provide everything to them. Panth is never in danger but it is attacked by foreign powers all the time and that is because Panth is the truth and falsehood doesn’t like it to exist which is why the ruling power wants to eliminate it. Now they are using chooray chammars to do their job and cause fights. Pankti that you quoted is by Guru Arjan Dev Ji and he referred to Guru Raamdas Ji as a Sant which means nindak of Guru Raamdas Ji will come and go all the time. My question to you is since you consider Ranvidas Ji the “supreme guru” why not use his bani to prove your point? Why come running to Guru Granth Sahib to defend your beliefs since you don’t even believe in it? Why quote from Sikh scripture since you are not a Sikh? Quote from your ravidasi chammar granth. Your baba was a pakhandi and he deserved it.

Mr. Jason chammar, what happened to barking for religious freedom and then asking for ban on Kirpan? Sikhs have been carrying kirpans for centuries but you want it banned. Where goes the religious freedom of Sikhs? You stated you love Sikhi preached by Guru Gobind Singh Ji but oppose kirpan. It was Him who instructed Sikhs to carry kirpan all the time. This means you are a complete liar. Is this what you are taught in your dera by ignorant chamaars? I think ravidas cult must be banned.

Ravidasis are chamaars and they follow Ravidas Ji because he was from a chamaar background whereas Sikhi is followed by everyone and did not start due to caste. First you say you love Sikhi preached by Guru Nanak Dev Ji then you insult His path. Is this what you learn in your cult? Instead of defending your beliefs you insult others. It goes to show the low level of intellect of chamaars. No. You have to accept the fact that only Guru Nanak Sahib’s Jot is the Guru. There is only One Satguru and that is Shabad. Guru Nanak Dev Ji said this himself in Bani and so did other Gurus. Where did Bhagat Ravidas say that he was the Guru? It is not a property of anyone. Guru Granth Sahib is Guru of Sikhs and only Sikhs have the right to keep it in Gurdwaras. Everyone is welcome to benefit from the gyan. Guru Arjan Dev Ji wrote Guru Granth Sahib and gave it to Sikhs. He didn’t give it to Ravidasis. On one hand you say you are not Sikhs then why have Guru Granth Sahib in your deras? So sad that your so-called “guru” couldn’t provide you with a granth of your own and you have to rely on Sikhs to keep your cult going. Pathetic. Sikhs don’t believe in pictures. Is Ravidas, the person, and his picture the same? Are your parents human or pictures or are they the same? Guru is Shabad not pictures. Guru Sahib strictly spoke against pictures, idols etc. Did Ravidas Ji worship pictures? Respecting and worshipping are two different things. In presence of Guru Granth Sahib everyone sits at equal level and no one is given more respect than others. When Guru Arjan Dev Ji brought Guru Granth Sahib in Darbar Sahib he sat with the sangat and slept on the floor. This shows how much Bani needs to be respected. When two Sikhs walked in a room reciting bani, Guru Harrai Ji quickly got up and sat on the floor. When Guru Hargobind Ji asked a Sikh to recite JapJi Sahib he sat on the floor. Bani is always higher. When Akbar came to have darshan of Guru Sahib, he sat with the sangat. Had you studied Bani a little you would’ve known better. No. Only Guru’s feet must be touched which is done by bowing to the Shabad. Does Gurbani say touch anyone’s feet while I am present? Can you provide evidence? Assume in your dera one is keep praising Jesus and when interrupted asks “where did Ravidas say that in my temple do not praise Jesus”? What would your answer be? We worship Guru Granth Sahib the same way Guru Sahib did. He showed us how to do it. Gurbani says that only Satguru must be worshipped and bowed to. Sikhs have never bowed to others. Imagine, Ravidas is sitting on a throne in your dera and all the people are bowing to a human. On one hand you want religious freedom and respect but on the other hand do not wish to respect Sikhs’ feelings and sentiments. Why the double standard? So in ravidas dera it is not considered beadbi to curse Ravidas Ji since he never said “it is my beadbi if you curse me”. guru Nanak says "I have learned everything from the dust of the feet of saints". Where? Ravidas says “my caste is kameene, ancestry is kameene and birth is worthless”. So is it not true that chamaars are kameenay people since Ravidas Ji himself was a ….. and their birth is worthless? From now on study bani in proper context or you will get more taste of your medicine. So now chamaars are talking tough because they got protection of the government? Why not go to Kashmir and show your bravery. I bet you will run away in no time. Why not just have a civil war? Show us what you got. If you want religious freedom then have everything separate from Sikhs. Don’t keep our Guru in your deras. Imagine if we kept your human guru in Gurdwara and kept insulting him and beating him and then justified it by saying “we have the right to religious freedom and worship in our own manners.” How come Ravidas Ji never gave you a granth and set of code of conduct? Who did he appoint after him? Why do your gurus keep hair and wear turbans? Why did you copy our jaikara and distorted it? Do not keep Guru Granth Sahib in your dera, have your own granth and you will have no issues from the Sikhs. Respect their beliefs and what they believe in and Sikhs won’t trouble you. Where did Ravidas call himself a Guru? He had a guru of his own then why not worship his guru too? He did not start any cult or sect? He gave no granth, scripture, code of conduct, jaikara, established no temple etc. He appointed no one in his place. He never spoke of causing riots, raising arms and startng a war. He never spoke for keeping hair or turban then why are today's fake human gurus keeping hair and wearing turbans? Ravidasi chamaars of today are nothing but bunch of goondas who are threatening the civil life of innocents and disrupting peace in Punjab. Puppets of the government and insult to Bhagat's name.

Up till 1849, Darbar Sahib was under the control of Akali Nihungs and they feared no one. They did not care much about Maharaja Ranjit Singh. They remained sovereign. Maharaja Ranjit Singh had no power or control over Darbar Sahib. I have read that he was given tankhah part of which was to cover Darbar Sahib with gold. Idols were installed when British puppets mahants took over. Gurdwaras are open for all and decorating them shows love of Sikhs for the house of the Guru. Singhs used to bring fine weapons and many valuable things for Guru Sahib. Maharaja Ranjit Singh did bheta of canopy as well as many jewels to Darbar Sahib. There is a big difference between decorating a human body and a Guru Ghar.

I never stated that one who conquers five evils become Satguru. Satguru is never touched by five evils. A Gursikh who becomes one with Waheguru does not become Waheguru. There is a big difference. Only Satguru can give naam and only he is out of the cycle of death and birth where any other Sant, Sadhu etc does not have the right to give naam. Think of a Sikh like a drop of water and Satguru like an ocean. A drop can merge in the ocean but itself is never an ocean. A Sikh can become one with Satguru but does not become Satguru. Only Panj Pyare in the hazoori of Satguru can give Naam. “Saints” refers to Sangat of Gurmukhs. It is metaphor for humility. Sant is an avastha not a title. Either you are intentionally looking away from facts or just don’t get it. Dabistan Mazahib by Mohsan Fani states that Sikhs believe all Gurus are one Jot and are Shabad saroop. Nanak is the Jot of Akal Purakh and this is why every Guru called himself Nanak. Akal Purakh Himself appeared as Satguru Nanak. He was Shabad saroop and still is. Don’t think of Guru Nanak as a physical man but roop of Akal Purakh as is clear from Gurbani and Vaars. There is no difference between Shabad Guru and Nanak Guru. Each Guru that was given gurgaddi became roop of Nanak. I do not know why you are making it hard to grasp. It would be better if you talked to someone in person.

Shabad Gurbani written on paper with ink and put together is called Guru Granth Sahib. I suggest you study definition of "Granth". Panth can choose Panj Pyare (not any lallu panjoo) who under the guidance of Guru Granth Sahib can make decisions. Guru Sahib said, "Atma Granth Vich, Sareer Panth Vich". Again, human guru is out of the loop. No one can replace Guru Granth Sahib (Gurbani Guru). I suggest you address my points or refute them if you believe otherwise and provide some evidence. Otherwise it shows how foolish human believers are.

But Sikhs never believed in human body to be the Guru. Sikhs always believed in Gurbani as the Satguru. Jot Nanak passed on. Guru is always one, always has been and will be as stated in Gurbani. So where is your argument? While naamdharis and others have to keep looking for new pakhandi after the old one dies, true Sikhs always stay in the sanctuary of Satguru who is always with His Sikhs all the time. Guru Nanak Sahib says: ਬਿਨੁ ਸਬਦੈ ਜਗੁ ਭੂਲਾ ਫਿਰੈ ਮਰਿ ਜਨਮੈ ਵਾਰੋ ਵਾਰ ॥7॥ Ang 58 And Guru Amardas Ji says: ਬਿਨੁ ਸਬਦੈ ਜਗੁ ਭੁਲਦਾ ਫਿਰਦਾ ਦਰਗਹ ਮਿਲੈ ਸਜਾਇ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ Ang 600 Both declared Shabad to be the only savior. Notice the similarity between the panktis. Something for you to think about.

According to Gurbani, avtars, prophets etc are all below the level of Satguru and under the influence of maya and kaal. They are not Akal Purakh Himself. Avtars who come to this earth are blessed with some powers to carry out their mission and then they die. Dasam Granth clearly states that all the avtars failed in their mission and under the influence of ego propagated themselves instead of propagating Naam. They taught their followers to follow them and later on they died. In Chaubis Avtar it is clearly written: ਕਾਲ ਸਭਨ ਕੋ ਪੇਖ ਤਮਾਸਾ ॥ ਅੰਤਹ ਕਾਲ ਕਰਤ ਹੈ ਨਾਸਾ ॥੨॥ Which means kaal is supreme to all the avtars. Further down the lines it says: ਜੋ ਚਉਬੀਸ ਅਵਤਾਰ ਕਹਾਏ । ਤਿਨ ਭੀ ਤੁਮ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਤਨਿਕ ਨ ਪਾਏ । Clearly, Guru Sahib is not doing any ustat of them but stating that all these avtars could not grasp the truth and died. Bachittar Natak states ਕਿਤੇ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਸੇ ਕੀਟ ਕੋਟੈ ਬਨਾਏ । ਕਿਤੇ ਰਾਮ ਸੇ ਮੇਟਿ ਡਾਰੇ ਉਪਾਏ । ਮਹਾਦੀਨ ਕੇਤੇ ਪ੍ਰਿਥੀ ਮਾਝਿ ਹੂਏ । ਸਮੈ ਆਪਨੀ ਆਪਨੀ ਅੰਤਿ ਮੂਏ ।27॥ ਜਿਤੇ ਅਉਲੀਆ ਅੰਬੀਆ ਹੋਇ ਬੀਤੇ । ਤਿਤਯੋ ਕਾਲ ਜੀਤਾ ਨ ਤੇ ਕਾਲੇ ਜੀਤੇ । ਜਿਤੇ ਰਾਮ ਸੇ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਹੁਇ ਬਿਸਨੁ ਆਏ । ਤਿਤਯੋ ਕਾਲ ਖਾਪਿਓ ਨ ਤੇ ਕਾਲ ਘਾਇ ।28॥ All avtars and prophets died which means they were not Akal Purakh. Akal Purakh doesn’t come down as an avtar but send someone. All these avtars were sent but they failed in their mission. ਸਭ ਤੇ ਅਪਨਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਾਯੋ । ਸਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਕਾਹੂੰ ਨ ਦ੍ਰਿੜਾਯੋ।27॥ ਸਭ ਅਪਨੀ ਅਪਨੀ ਉਰਝਾਨਾ । ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਕਾਹੂੰ ਨ ਪਛਾਨਾ । No one preached Naam. Then what happened? Akal Purakh Himself came as a Satguru Nanak Dev Ji (the only one in the world ever) and preached Naam. He started “Nirmal Panth” and preached only to worship Akaal. Only Shabad or Gurbani is His true manifestation and for this reason Sikhs do not believe in human Guru nor they ever did. Bhai Gurdas JI states that Nirankaar Himself created his roop and became Guru Nanak and then preached Gurmat. Once the physical body diminished, the Jot passed on which now resides in the Shabad. All the avtars were not Satguru because according to Gurbani there is only one Satguru in the world who is never born never dies and is always mukat. Guru Granth Sahib is the only Satguru in which Jot Nanak resides and will always reside. It is very easy to tell who is a fake and pakhandi Guru and who is not. Guru Granth Sahib is the only true Guru not because this is what I believe in or because of my shardha but because it is a fact and no human can ever change that or take Satguru's place. Pakhandi naamdhari gurus take birth and then die. Mere humans. And the Shabad you posted talks about ninda of Satguru which is Shabad not a human. Good post by swordsedge. Guru Rakha

The way you wrote was not what you wanted to say and it is common. It is also common for someone else to read your posts in a different way. I do not think I insulted you but simply disagreed with you on something which you did not intend to write. A simple misunderstanding shouldn't serve as the reason to leave. But it is your choice. Guru Rakha

Here is the discussion on karma in another topic. It might help. http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showtopic=40995&hl=

It is unreasonable to think that gurugaddi was passed on because of a boon. Sahbizadas were treated no way different than other Sikhs because Guru Sahib sent them to the battlefield like others and did not cover their dead bodies or cremated them. He never even looked at their faces in a different way than other shaheed Singhs. You need to provide evidence that the 3rd Guru’s boon referred to only blood relatives. Assuming that the sakhi is true then why is that the word of Guru did not come true and gurugaddi was not passed to a blood relative? Had Guru Sahib given the boon, there would’ve been someone worthy to become the Guru unless you suggest that the boon had an exception and Guru Sahib said, “Gaddi will remain in your family until there is not someone worthy of it”. The sakhi itself has an inherent contradiction. Either give the gaddi based on merit or to anyone in the family. You say no one worthy was left in the family but you provide no justification for it. Name the family members who were left and then state why they were not worthy? What reasons do you have to believe that had Sahibzadas been alive, one of them would’ve become the next Guru? On one hand you say, Gurbani has always been the Guru and on the other hand you are being persistent about gurugaddi being passed on to a human? Guru Sahib’s mission was to declare Shabad the true Guru and Guru Nanak Sahib declared this fact in Sidh Goast. ਸਾਚ ਸਬਦ ਬਿਨੁ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥1॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ AND ਸਬਦੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਧੁਨਿ ਚੇਲਾ ॥ Guru Nanak Sahib Ji and Guru Amardas Ji declare Shabad the true Guru. Then why would Guru Sahib give boon to for gurugaddi to remain within the family since it already belonged to the Shabad? You state that Guru Sahib is only our spiritual father but then why are we told during Amrit Sanchaar that our mother is Mata Sahib Kaur, birth of Patna Sahib, resident of Anandpur Sahib and nankay Guru Ka Lahore? Are these spiritual places? I doubt it. We are given same bani, bana and rehat and adopt the same last name as Guru Sahib then how can he be only the spiritual father? You need to think about it more. Although you are trying to prove Guru Granth Sahib as the true Guru, your reasoning is not valid and in the process you are insulting Guru’s relatives and basing your reasons on a sakhi rather than Gurbani and Vaars which are much more authentic.