Singh132

Although my "some guy" remark wasn't directed specifically at you Prabhu, it is for anyone that says kakaars can be removed. When bathing, a Sikh will first wash his/her hair. The kirpan doesn't get wet and the keski is tied to the waist. After washing the kesh, the keski is tied back on and the kirpan is tied to the dastaar. Doesn't really cause any problem. Even old rehitnamas say that a Sikh should not remove the kacherra at once and should be changed one leg at a time. Washing with it on is a question that is so obviously answered, I'm not going to bother replying to it. Prabhu Singh, these Singhs I mentioned would not give up their kakaars under any circumstances. They could have just said "oh well, I have no control on the situation, let it go" But they didn't they chose death over it. I really doubt "It is the same love in those instances as those who didn't make it through." if someone is taking off their kakaar to bathe. If your kirpan is on a gatra or if it's nearby when sleeping makes a BIG difference. I can easily walk up to you when you're asleep and take your kirpan away. A kirpan on a gatra cannot be taken away without disturbing the person wearing it. The person with his kakaar is "tyaar bar tyaar" for any call to battle but the person lying there without it is NOT. Question: when at darbar sahib, do you see people leaving their kirpans by the side of the sarovar? No. They wear them. Why? Because they know it is wrong and will look bad on them if they do that (even if they do it at home). Rehitnama References: Bhai Nand Lal Jee's Tankhanama states; "He who abandons the Guru and follows another, who sleeps at night naked from the waist down, whoh engages in intercourse while naked, or who bathes while naked [let him be regarded as a grevious offender" verse 42. Rehitnama Bhai Desa Singh "Sustain within your man, compassion, obedience to your dharam and tap. Never be separated from your kachh or your kirpan. In a fight never turn your back or flee from the field of battle" verse 15. Bhai Daya Singh Rehitnama: This is for after bathing, how to change the kacherra: "For changing his kachhera, he should have alength of cloth measureing 2.5 gaz" (what would be the need of this if he could just take it on or off. All Singhs who keep their kacherra at all times need this cloth to change their wet to dry) also "If a Khalsa bathes without a kachh or with his kes uncovered instead of h aving a turban properly tied, he should incur a tankhah..." (verse 53) There is no doubt that Guru Sahib's precious kakaars cannot be removed willfully by a Sikh. If they are, he should appear before the Punj Pyaaray for a tankhah. Who would willfully want to be apart from Guru Sahib's gifts?

A Singh/Kaur should be tyaar-bar-tyaar correct? That means Guru Sahib can call on us for our head or our seva at any given moment. Do you think you are tyaar bar tyaar standing naked in the shower with not even a kacherra to cover yourself up? Are you tyaar-bar-tyaar when your kakaars are off? Simple question. No. Prabhu mentioned that only some Jathas keep this rehit. Among these Jathas are Akhand Kirtani Jatha, Damdami Taksal, All Nihang Dals and I know that at the Takhats (SGPC maryada) they tell you that you cannot be apart even during a shower. Which Jathas are there that allow you to separate from your kakaars? I think it boils down to an issue of love. These are gifts given to us by our Guru. Do you love that gift enough to keep it with you at all times and at all costs? Bhai Amarjeet Singh Babbar was stripped of his kakaars and after that point, despite the agonising torture he faced, he refused to even drink a drop of water until his kakaars were returned to him. He was martyred during the torture. Jathedar Gurdev Singh Kaunke when he was arrested, was ordered to take off his kakaars for interrogation. He refused. Swarn Ghotna, the interrogator dreaded across Punjab for being a butcher, put his hand on Jathedar jee's gatra to take it off. Jathedar Gurdev Singh grabbed him by the throat and said, "You dog of the Brahmins! You don't know the value of these to me!". It took 9 officers to remove Jathedar Sahib and he was then tortured to death. These Singhs gave their lives but wouldn't be separated from their kakaars by their own will. And here we are taking off our kakaars to go for a swim or take a shower. Who showed the love? Taking off our kakaars is a kurehit. It isn't a bujjer kurehit, but it is indeed a kurehit. Willingly taking them off requires that we present ourselves before the Punj Pyaaray for forgiveness. Countless Gursikhs have found a way to keep their kakaars at all times including work, sleep and bathing. Are you saying your situation is so unique that you can't manage? I have slept with my kirpan for 8 years. Haven't injured myself yet. You can follow the example of Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh, Baba Gurbachan Singh jee Khalsa, Jathedar Gurdev Singh Kaunke or Bhai Amarjeet Singh Babbar. or You can follow the advice of some guy posting on an internet forum. Your choice.

I agree that arti with divas is manmat. Chaur Sahib was done over Guru Sahib and was done over anyone who was royalty. We know Guru Sahib had this done and it is even mentioned in bani. Same with karah parshad. Chanani is also something kept over royalty. Arti is a ritual done to deities and gods. It is never mentioned in Sikh history as having been done to Sikh Gurus. It is a Hindu ritual. Some people claim that all this is original maryada and Hazur Sahib sticks to the oldest traditions. Nonsense. I have a video of my 1996 visit to Hazur Sahib and in it, no one has tikkas or tilaks on their foreheads. I went in 2004 and now this practice of putting tilaks has started as well. I wonder when this will become "puratan maryada" as well. At least for this example of manmat we have videos and pictures to show it is a new creation. But who knows in 100 years these Brahmins in Sikh clothing will claim it is Gurmat.

Those poor Sikhs who have fallen into Kala-Afghana's trap are truly unfortunate. Kala Afghana was a police informer and a court found him to have sexually assaulated a woman in BC. His atheist-like version of Sikhi, is in my opinion, anti-Sikh and created by anti-Sikh forces. I know of one young Sikh youth who started reading up on Kala-Afghana's stuff. He had started to keep his kesh. He stopped doing nitnem, lost faith in naam, began to think rehit was pointless. He ended up cutting his kes. Kala-Afghana is spiritual poison. Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh on the other hand is amazing help for someone on the spiritual path. But an atheist logic-bound Kala-Afghana fan who doesn't believe in the power of naam will never be able to appreciate that.

if what your parents are asking is anti-Gurmat then there's really no choice. You respectfully refuse to do as they say.

First be committed to the "rebellion" and be certain that what you're doing is right. Understand what consequences this rebellion may have and ask yourself if you're willing and able to bear them. Let your parents know about the act of rebellion. They may shout and scream but you must not do the same. Try to remain calm and argue your point logically. If its an issue of rehit, I suggest that you make sure that you are doing all the basics first. For example, someone may want to keep sarbloh bibek, but if they're waking up at 10 am and their parents at 7am, they really don't have any justification for keeping this new rehit. They should fix their amrit vela as a priority. If its something very basic like parents wanting you to keep earrings or cut your hair, then I think your parents will want to know that you are dedicated to the Sikh path. They'll want to know that this isn't some phase or a stage that you'll grow out of. You have to be clear that you are dedicated to this and then put your words into action. Do paath. Get up early if you can. Go to Gurdwara regularly. Guaranteed that if your parents see you living a Sikh lifestyle and its having an effect on you, they themselves will be very influenced and will even copy your example. If it's not a Sikhi-related rebellion, then perhaps the above isn't so helpful. Just stay respectful, don't lose your temper and believe in what you're doing. Recognise that your parents probably want what's in your interest and aren't your enemies. And most importantly: Do Ardaas. If Guru Sahib's with you, who can stop you? Let him speak for you and let him handle the situation. If you're doing this for him, then isn't it up to him to deal with this? Let it go from your hands and put it in his. Then have faith.

I would also love to have that picture. Please let me know how I might get it.

Actually, the story is quite a bit different. The above story is true, but it's not the story of Bhai Hakikat Singh jee, but another Singh. Below is the real story: Baba Haqiqat Singh Jee Haqiqat Singh was born in 1724 to Mata Durgi who was the daughter of parents who believed in Sikhism. I think that her brothers were Singhs. Haqiqat Singh belonged to a wealthy family and he grew up learning Gurmat and Sikh history from his mother. He heard about the Sahibzadas of Guru Gobind Singh and was especially impressed by Baba Zoravar Singh and Baba Fateh Singh. He thought about them all the time. In those days persian was very prevalent in Punjab and mostly persian was taught by Maulvis (Moslem priests) in masjids (Moslem place of worship). Haqiqat Singh started learning persian in the village masjid and he was the only non-Moslem student there. Haqiqat Singh was extraordinarily bright boy and therefore many Moslem boys were jealous of him. In 1735 when he was only 10-11 years old, Haqiqat Singh got into argument with the Moslem students of the school. The Moslem boys teased him by calling bad names to Durga Mata (Goddess of Hindus). Hearing this Haqiqat Singh called Bibi Fatima (daughter of Mohammad Sahib, the prophet of Moslems) bad names. At this he was severely beaten by the Moslem boys. Fearing that Haqiqat Singh would tell the Maulvi and have them punished the Moslem boys went straight to the Maulvi and exaggerated the argument with Haqiqat Singh and told him that Haqiqat Singh had said very derogatory things about Islam. Hearing this Maulvi could not control his anger and he along with a group of other Moslems marched towards 11 years old Haqiqat Singh to teach him a lesson. On the other side when Haqiqat Singh reached home all swollen his mother got very upset when she found out that she was beaten by Moslem boys so badly. She told him that she will talk to the maulvi personally about this. By that time Maulvi reached their home with a lot of other people and he grabbed Haqiqat Singh by his hair and started beating him mercilessly. They beat him so badly that he got unconscious. Their anger did not extinguish at this. They carried him to the Faujdaar (governor) of Sialkot (now in Pakistan). Haqiqat Singh was brought before the Faujdar and questioned. Haqiqat Singh told them the truth but no one believed him. The Faujdar along with the Qazi, ordered him that the only way he can escape death is if he embraced Islam, the religion he allegedly condemned so much. At that point Haqiqat Singh remembered Baba Zoravar Singh and Baba Fateh Singh. He politely but forcefully declined their demand. He said that he will never convert to Islam. This made the Qazi and other Moslems there mad. The Qazi ordered that he be tied by the tree upside down and beaten with hunters (a kind of cane made out of leather). Where ever the hunter fell it ripped the skin from the body. Haqiqat Singh did not bow. Finally when Haqiqat Singh remained unyielding he was sent to Zakariya Khan at Lahore. Haqiqat Singh's father pleaded for mercy and even offered money equal to the weight of his son but the tyrants did not listen to him. Before he was deported to Lahore from Sialkot, Dhan Mata Durgi the mother of Haqiqat Singh told him that she would rather be mother of a shaheed than being mother of a loser who gave up his religion because of fear of death. It was a very emotional departure and many people present there had tears in their eyes. Haqiqat Singh was brought before the subedar of Lahore, Zakariya Khan and he remain defiant there also. People were amazed at this 11 years old young boy who wouldn't give up his Dharam despite all the torture and threats. Haqiqat Singh came to this stage that he did not care any more. He just wanted to be with his heros Baba Zoravar Singh and Baba Fateh Singh. Finally when all the measures to convert him failed his head was severed from his body at the order of Zakariya Khan in January of 1735. Haqiqat Singh happily embraced death but did not give up his religion. I urge our youth to look up to these kids who did not give up their Dharam even in the most difficult times. But what has happened to us ? Why are we giving up Gurmat when we don't have any threat or danger to our lives ? When the Khalsa forces of those times found out about Haqiqat Singh's shaheedi, everyone was upset. Nawab Kapur Singh and others vowed to avenge the death of Haqiqat Singh which they did. Dhan Baba Haqiqat Singh jee and his mother Mata Durgi jee.

Don't call the authorities unless there is absolutely NO other option. In these cases I've seen kids being taken away and put in group homes or foster families that are non-Sikh and the damage continues, though just in a different form. I think the best thing to do is to contact an elder person who this family respects. The parents need to know that others know whats going on and it's not right. If they know that they are being watched they probably won't continue with the beatings. I'm not sure any normal parent wants to hurt their child anyways and if they find out that their treatment is doing such serious harm, they'll understand they need to stop.

The proper way of showing love and respect to a shastar is to put it to one's forehead and bow. Not a full out bow, but like a nod. You'll see a lot of Singhs doing it. Kissing a kirpan or shastar is NOT allowed. Getting your spit on it is not really showing respect.

I heard in a Katha that the first time degh was prepared in the Sikh faith was by Guru Nanak at the place where Sri Amritsar Sahib is today. He asked the local chief to bring him ghee, flour and sugar. From the sarovar that stands today, he took the water. After making degh and giving it to everyone gathered, Bhai Mardana asked when this food would be made again and if he could get it more often. Guru Sahib replied that at this place, one day, degh would be served every day, at all hours of the day. This is from Bhai Pinderpal Singh's katha "Degh Chalaiee" Another story I've heard is that Guru Sahib first prepared Degh when meeting with the sidhs in the mountains. Parshad is "blessed food" and even a little bit is considered very special. It is food that is given by the Guru. It was prepared while reciting bani or naam and so it takes on spiritual qualities as well. Accepting someone's parshad is accepting that person as a superior and is a form of submission. This doesn't mean it is an act of submission before the persong giving it out, but before the person that made it parshaad by doing bhog on it (in our case Guru Sahib). There are sants and saadhs that also gave their Parshaad by tasting some food and giving it or otherwise just blessing it and giving it; this is NEVER to be eaten. The recipe for degh is very simple. Equal parts (weight wise) of flour, sugar and ghee. 4 parts water. Boil the water with sugar mixed in it. Add the flour to the ghee and let it brown. This should take about 10 minutes if you're making quite a bit and less time if you are making less. You'll know it's "brown" when the colour turns a darker shade of brown (almost red) and a smell starts to come. To know it for sure, you have to see someone make it first but the secret is that it's better to be over-done than under-done. When the flour is reddish/brown, add the water. This will result in a lot of steam and bubbling so be careful. Mix the water in thoroughly. When you see that the karah is now not sticking to the sides of the kaRaahee, it's ready. This takes usually not more than 1 minute after water is added. Most important part of Degh is the maryada in the post above. Without the maryada, it is not acceptable to Guru Sahib and is not made special or sanctified.

Probably the most important post I've read on this topic... Author: Sarbloh Kaur Date: 05-06-05 09:12 >It was your shortsightedness. What else can we say? Maybe it was OUR shortsightedness too. Maybe we didn't give her enough encouragement and reassurance, and maybe we didn't ever show her what faith is. I've never seen or known of any woman with more facial hair than myself, but I'm fortunate as I've been surrounded by Sangat that gave me encouragement and showed me what real faith is all about. There were times when I struggled and my Sikhi hung by a thread even finer than the hairs on my face. Without Sangat, I would surely have landed in the same boat as the bibi we are referring to in this thread. If this bibi was given the support I was given, I doubt she would have fallen. Bhain Jee, if you're reading this, let me tell you, living with facial hair is not easy. I know first-hand that you've gone through hell. By walking through hell, I believe you could have ended up someplace wonderful, but instead, you've gone through hell only to end up in hell at the end of the day. It pains me to know and feel everything you've gone through, but it pains me even more to know that despite the distance you've come, your journey was in vain. You went through so much, but you didn't learn from it. What was there to learn? You should have learned about Gursikhi pyaar, and you were in the best of all positions to learn about it. You should have learned that all those filled with false love have drifted away and distanced themselves from you. Who wants to be seen with a girl that looks like THAT?? Who wants to MARRY her?!?! Right? Right. You should have learned that. Those filled with Gursikhi pyaar have stuck by your side. They valued you for who you were and seemed to see everything about you except the hairs on your face. Without facial hair as an "obstacle", once you find a guy to marry, ask yourself if he would have married you had you kept your Sikhi/facial hair intact. If, without your facial hair, you now suddenly receive marriage proposals, what will it show you? It will show you the very opposite of Gursikhi pyaar. It will show you that you're the same person simply encased in a different shell, yet your value will seem to magically soar. You will be valued for your outer appearance and nothing more. Will you be proud of that? It would make me hang my head in shame more than my facial hair ever did. With facial hair, you had a guaranteed method of being sure the Singh you married was a Singh not just by name, but by the very essence Guru Sahib must have envisioned. It takes a lot to look past appearances and to look deeper to value a person on the inside before devaluing them from the outside. It takes even more to MARRY such a person. It takes a Gursikh, and you would have known that the Singh you married while you had facial hair was a Singh of the finest class. If there is one Singh in a million who would gladly marry a Singhnee with facial hair, who says Guru Sahib wouldn't have worked it out for you? What is there that Guru Sahib can't give his Sikhs? If he can give a girl who removes her facial hair a good husband, as you probably expect he will, would he not have given a Singhnee who stays true to herself and to her Guru a good husband? Regardless of what everyone says, the truth is, there are indeed very very few Singhs who would genuinely not mind marrying a girl with facial hair. None will openly state they would mind, but most would rather opt for the wife whose beauty everyone will praise rather than the one everyone will stare at and no one will call beautiful. The first thing anyone ever says about a new bride is that she is beautiful. Well, I'm certain no one will ever say that about me, but I don't mind. I would rather be called a Sikh than beautiful any day. Bhain Jee, I ask you - with your facial hair removed, are you 100% happy with your appearance? I doubt it. I know girls who have removed their facial hair. They are still not satisfied. They are just as superficial and self-conscious as they were before. Without facial hair, they've simply found another "imperfection" to concentrate on. There's no end to the list of body parts one can mutilate and mould. Removal of facial hair is not the end of one's worries. It is just the end of one's Sikhi. Bhain Jee, it's not too late. Guru Sahib is great. He is bakshanhaar. Go before the Punj Pyaaray and they can easily turn things around for you. Lastly, know that if something is meant to be, it'll be. Whether you're completely hairless, or whether you're covered in hair from head to toe, if something is meant to happen, nothing can stop Guru Sahib from making it happen. You would have gotten married if you were meant to, even with your facial hair. Believe it. Bhain Jee, have strength! Have courage! Have faith! Everything is in Guru Sahib's hands. http://www.tapoban.org/phorum/read.ppa?f=1&i=35931&t=35931

Bhain jee, I am not even going to try and tell you that I understand what bibis with facial hair go through. It must be so difficult. That having been said, I have to also say that the bibis that impress me most are those that go through with that battle and don't give in to the pressure. How beloved must Sikhi be to them that they are willing to go into such looks-conscious society with a face that looks so different and in the eyes of others, "scarred"? There must be something in them that chose Sikhi over the world. The facial hair to others maybe a negative and unsightly, but to Gursikhs, (and I have talked to chardi kala gursikhs about this), it is a sign of the love they feel for their Guru. Anythign I say is so completely inadequate. But I feel that if someone removes their hair, they are trying to cheat Guru Sahib. What will we accomplish by removing the hair? Job, marriage, etc? I have faith that all these worldly things are in the hands of my Guru. I can't turn my back on him and hope to do better than he would have done for me if I had obeyed him. I think I would feel more secure about these things holding his hand than if I let it go and try to secure them for myself. non-Sikh family and Sikhi: That's another topic I'm all to familliar with. When I first took amrit, I made a lot of compromises. And every compromise weakened my Sikhi and strengthened my family's resolve that this was a phase and they could make me change still. When I took my stands and refused to budge, they stopped trying to make me and today they too have a lot of respect for Sikhi and are slowly changing themselves. Overall, I just want to say that I feel so much respect and admiration when I see a bibi with facial hair. She has made her choice in life. She's not on the fence, she has decided that she's with Guru Sahib. And what kind of a father would let his children suffer and live deprived lives? It was my job to surrender to him, and I think its his job to do the rest. He promised he would and if I can't believe his promise, who can I trust in this world? I just need the faith to believe. So what would I do? I would hope I would have enough trust and faith in my Guru that I would surrender to his will fully. I would see this for the test it is, and I wouldn't let my Guru down. And the world could think what it wants...

why did you erase the name of the author ??

I have really nothing further to say in this thread. Akaal108, call Sanjh Savera and ask about this article. Guaranteed it doesn't exist. As for the rest of your statements, I will say nothing. I don't need to say anything. Our words and manner of writing reflect on who we are and where we are standing.

I'd love to see the Sanjh Savera article about Tapoban. Akal108, please do share it. In fact, just let me know what it said. You can't. You know why? Because there was no such article. Akal108, your whole post reflects what's wrong with our mentality. Firstly, it has not an ounce of truth (the person whose beard was pulled was a Singh who goes to Gurdwara Tapoban, not the other way around.) And the funny part about it, is that after bashing a Jatha, you go on to criticise people that bash Jathas. What sense does that make? After making a post that shows clear intolerance, you go on to condemn intolerance. I'll repeat myself: lets move on in our lives. All this hatred we feel burns us and does almost nothing to the ones we hate. Just ask yourself if you got up and amrit vela and if you've done any extra bani today. Let that be a starting point and move on from there.

japman veer, I have no idea what you're saying. My brain has been admittedly a bit slow lately, but from what I can see, Kulbir Singh's posted, then his wife posted. His wife erased the name "Kulbir Singh" and the email address as well, since she's obviously not Kulbir Singh. Then Kulbir Singh came on the computer later and accidently forgot to replace his wife's ID with his own (check the thread to see what I mean). He continues on with the debate with the sentence "that's precisely my point". Now if he were trying to be someone he's not, why would he continue on with the point he had made earlier in a post as Kulbir Singh? On a side note, I personally want to say that I hate Jatha bashing. But a lot of the people that claim to hate it as well, sometimes seem to have so much pent up hatred and frustration it makes me wonder what's going on. Be happy, live your life, there are many more important things to worry about (like did I get up for amrit vela today?Am I doing as much paath as I can given the amount of time I have?). So everyone just take a deep breath and put things in perspective.

Before jumping up and down with your scandalous discovery, check other posts by "Singhnee" and you'll see that it's the ID used by Kulbir Singh's wife. When you post on the forum, the last person who posted's name stays in the "name" section and sometimes (all of us not being perfect) someone might forget to change the "name" section.

Focussing between the forehead is not any Gurmat method I have heard of. I know Radha Soamis do this. It causes strain and can lead to a headache.

JSS, I'm not going to argue the point, but the three "methods" Sant Teja Singh mentioned are after he mentions "A" method that has been passed down since the times of the Gurus. These three "methods" he writes about after are not different really and fall into one. Naam starts on the tongue and is done out loud but eventually the goal is to make it go at all times whether out loud or silently. The first three "methods" are not different at all. Ajapaa jaap, if you call it a method, isn't something you can do voluntarily and only starts after a lot of abhyaas. Anyways, I don't want to labour the point or debate much more about it. Like I said before, if you are happy with what you are doing and don't want to change, then I wouldn't dream of trying to tell you that you should. Do what you think is right and feels right according to Gurmat. The rest is up to Guru Sahib to do kirpa. At the same time, when I was confused about naam, getting naam driR was very helpful to me.

JSS wrote: >>>>>>> oh singh123...you should really be careful when trying to point out "faults" or shortcomings of other amritsanchars...you're lucky that we all actually have some level of respect for people like bhai randhir singh ji and haven't thrown that fact that the akj believe in a different kakaar than the Akal takt maryada in your face.. >>>>>> Jss, why are you so bitter and angry? If you re-read my post I didn't try and point out any "fault", I pointed out differences and didn't make any subsequent comment on what's right or wrong. For your sake, I'll paste my comment here: >>>>>> If one amrit sinchar says it's ok to eat meat and to read three nitnem banis, while another says eating meat is a bujjer kurehit and nitnem in the morning is of 5 banis, then of course something is inequal. One is allowing what another sees as a bujjer kurehit. So things, unfortunately, aren't quite as simple as that. >>>>> As for the historical references, I have shown that there is a method to jap naam that is not taught in many amrit sinchaars and that there are historical references for it. Please fix your tone. There is no reason for you to have such an insulting and offensive style of writing.

Firstly regarding how naam is given in an amrit sinchaar, I'd like to say that there are really no detailed puratan rehitnamas that detail how to conduct an amrit sinchar or what happens inside. They don't even explicity mention the giving of gurmantar. As for "whispering", I'm not sure that would be an accurate description. S1ngh veer ji wrote: >>>>> Veerjee... All Amrit Sinchaars are equal if they are accepted by the authority of the akal takht. *Period* >>>>> I'd say it's more of a comma than a period. If one amrit sinchar says it's ok to eat meat and to read three nitnem banis, while another says eating meat is a bujjer kurehit and nitnem in the morning is of 5 banis, then of course something is inequal. One is allowing what another sees as a bujjer kurehit. So things, unfortunately, aren't quite as simple as that.

If you want to receive the gift of naam driR, then why would there be any problem in going before the punj pyaaray and asking for it? They are afterall, Guru's own roop. But to be clear, unfortunately, not all amrit sinchaars are "equal". Gobind Sadan has amrit sinchaars as do the namdharis and so do many other groups. Bibis receive kirpan amrit amongst the Nihangs and at Hazoor Sahib. So-called "low castes" have to drink amrit in a separate bata in some amrit sinchaars. At other places, gurmantar is not taught or given or is replaced with some sant's own mantar. Other times, amrit is given in glasses. Do you get the picture? Where we go to receive amrit is up to our karma. Amrit is amrit, but not every amrit sinchaar is conducted properly. I encourage everyone to read Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh's "Amrit Ki Hai".

although I had thought to myself that I wouldn't reply in this thread after giving the historical references, I am doing so to clear up some misinformation above. In Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh's times, Singhs did naam abhyaas together. They used to do so at the dhaab (pond) which is the boundary between Narangval and Gujjarval. Bhai Sahib writes that the Singhs roared so loudly that the sound could be heard in both villages. One of Bhai Sahib's companions, Bhai Darshan Singh, was nicknamed GaRGuj because he was so loud. Once he began to do naam abhyaas and an English couple began to think that a lion was nearby. There is nothing wrong in doing loud naam abhyaas. At the same time, when someone's naam khanda begins to go automatically, it can be done completley silently as well, without anyone even being able to tell that naam abhyaas is happening. One thing is worth mentioning and this is regarding Singhs in keertan. When GuruSahib gives some ras or blessings, we should try our best to control ourselves and not let anyone notice. The more we control ourselves, the more ras Guru Sahib will give. If we make a show, we show that we can't handle anymore. If we make a big show, it also can lead to haumai. So as Gursikhs have told me, try to keep things as gupt as possible in Sangat.

Can you teach the use of chakras? Can anyone? These are things that can't be explained to a spiritual novice. All that can be done is teach naam and the technique for it and this starts the spiritual process. This technique also "evolves" if you will. Eventually naam doesn't have to be loud or even vocalised and continues silently inside. Initially this "naam khanda" must start out loud but it moves inside. At any rate, unless you yourself have received the instructions, you can't know what is taught and how and why, so why bother speculating? If someone is hyperventilating, I would suggest that they aren't doing what the punj pyaaray have taught or have misunderstood something. To be clear, I am not forcing anyone to do anything. Read Bani and jap naam. If you are happy as you are, then who am I to change you? All I have said is that the technique taught does have a historical basis and secondly, when I personally was confused about what naam was and where to focus and how to jap, getting naam driR at an amrit sinchaar was useful to me.