Singh132

The technique to meditate on naam, preserved in amrit sinchaars organized by AKJ has many historical references. Sant Teja Singh MA (successor of Sant Attar Singh) has written an article on this topic. In it, he tells, "In Sau Sakhi its says that Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj tells Mata Jeeto Ji that the tip of the tounge (jeeb di teesy), with force (jor naal), should touch the roof of the mouth (taloo naal), and at all times keep saying Vahiguru Vahiguru." Also, he describes how Bhai Mani Singh in Bhagat Ratnavali, in the sakhi of Sheehan and Gajjan, he writes that Guru Nanak Dev instructed them, "when our breath goes in we should say 'Vahi' and when our breath goes out we should say 'guru'" You can check this in Sant Teja Singh's biography of Sant Attar Singh on page 305. Also, in Prem Sumaarag Granth, an older rehitnama it gives the insturction: "oupar saas naabh tay "vaah" say layvai, ar talay kaa saas "guru" say chhoDay. Vahiguru daa jap karai." Now to be clear, only Panj Pyaaray can teach this in hazoori of Satguru Granth Sahib and there are things involved that you can't read and understand. You cannot read about naam and think that you "know" the method. It is taught by the Panj Pyaaray and involves more than what is written. Also, Shaheed ji, no one believes the dasam duaar is between your eyes, so why focus there? Only radha swamis have made this place a popular point to focus on. Anyways, how can you focus on something you are not aware of ? But beyond that, all I can say is, if you don't know where to focus when japping naam or don't know what naam is, then it would be beneficial to go to the punj pyaaray and get this gift.

Lal Singh aka. Manjit Singh has been in an Indian prison for a long time now. He was brutally tortured and although they say he tried to bite his own tongue off, reports at the time said that it was a torture method used in that particular prison. I remember I saw his picture when he was arrested (back in 1992) and thought to myself, "well at least he's not a Singh", but later they showed his current picture and he had a gurmukhi dastaar and long beard. I don't have a clue how they linked him to Daniel Pearl. Here's a recent article on Lal Singh: http://web.mid-day.com/news/city/2003/august/60245.htm Latest link to blasts: Khalistan terrorist By: Vinod Kumar Menon August 4, 2003 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Khalistan terrorist Lal Singh, who is languishing in a Delhi jail, can expect a visit from the Mumbai police team investigating the recent bomb blasts. When he was arrested in 1992, Singh had revealed plans to blow up vital installations in the city. He had named Saquib Nachan, prime accused in the 2002 Ghatkopar blast, as part of the conspiracy then. A Crime Branch officer said Lal Singh, also known as Manjit Singh, allegedly had links with Nachan and other Students Islamic Movement of India (SIMI) activists. This was evident in the three-day All Indian SIMI Conference at Bandra reclamation in December 1991. Then SIMI president C A M Basheer, Dr Jalees Ansari Taheer Shaikh, alias Nisar Ansari, (who are the prime suspects in the recent Ghatkopar blast) and Saquib Nachen were seen there with Lal Singh. Who is Lal Singh? Lal Singh was born and brought up in Punjab. A seaman with the merchant navy then, he jumped ship in Canada soon after Operation Blue Star in June 1984, and made his foray into the world of terrorism. In June 1985, terrorists of the Vancouver-based Babbar Khalsa, headed by Lal Singh and Talwinder Singh Parmar, a Canadian national, were responsible for blowing up an Air-India aircraft flying out of Toronto. Parmar escaped to Pakistan after the Canadian police learnt of his involvement. He shifted base to the Nankana Sahib gurudwara and guided terrorist activities across the border from there. The same month, the FBI learnt of a plan by the International Sikh Youth Federation, led by Lal Singh, to assassinate Bhajan Lal, former minister of Haryana and Rajiv Gandhi, during a visit to the US. Lal Singh escaped to Pakistan after the FBI learnt about him. He took on the name Iqbal and lived in a house belonging to the Jammat-e-Islami (JEI) in Lahore from 1986-1991. His main responsibility was to collect funds from sympathisers in the Middle East. He also possessed a Pakistan passport. How was he nabbed? The FBI had issued an international lookout notice for Lal Singh. In July 1992, a Mumbai police team then headed by Additional Commissioner of Police (West Region) A A Khan laid a trap for Singh at Dadar railway station and arrested him. “We had information about Singh’s arrival on the Amritsar-Dadar Express at around 4.30 am. The police intercepted a man, who looked like a businessman. A search was conducted and the police found a cyanide capsule in his possession. His finger fingerprints also matched those in FBI records,” said Khan. Singh was kept in a high security cell at Santacruz police station and interrogated for three weeks before being handed over to the Central Bureau of Investigation. In order to evade being questioned, Singh had injured his tongue badly. After his arrest many of his sympathisers having ISI links including Saquib Nachan and others were arrested, Khan said. What did he reveal to the Mumbai police then? That he had planned to engineer a series of blasts at vital installations and petrol refineries in Mumbai with the help of sympathisers like Saquib Nachan, but was arrested before he could meet them. That there was a terrorist training camp in Frank Camper’s mercenary training school, Alabama. That he was assigned the task of smuggling arms from Pakistan, building a network of hideouts and training Muslim fundamentalist youth in association with organisations like SIMI.

Jedi Singh, This is a long discussion, but please bear with me. Sikhi believes in 5 realms that exist in the afterlife. I'll try to describe them here as best as I can. Dharam Khand: It is here that all souls go once the body dies and it is here they must face the actions they have done in life and receive orders for their new homes. Heaven and Hell are not elevated realms at all, but temporary ones where a soul receives the fruit of karma and once again returns to life forms. Heaven/Jannat are not Sachkhand. They are very much lower than that. Islam and Christianity do not consider heaven or paradise to be union with God, but simply a very nice place for the soul to reside. Merger with God is not a concept they understand. In fact for Muslims it is blasphemy to even suggest it is possible. Why do these other realms even exist? Becaue God is merciful. Whatever the soul desires, that is what it gets. Those souls desire this place of "beauty" with many comforts, and so they get it. Gian Khand. This is perhaps as high as "regular" people can go. If you read about astral travellers, they will tell you that the highest they can go is a realm of pure light and knowledge. No questions exist, just knowledge. This is also a temporary realm and not the final resting place for the soul. It is here that you will find Krishan, Shiva, Brahma, Indra, Sidhas, Buddha and others (Japji Sahib tells us this). Sharam Khand. This is where we receive completely new senses and understanding. It is radically different than our consciousness as it is now. Everything from here on in is beyond description and understanding to our bra ins. Guru Nanak Dev jee tries to let us know but says that if someone tries to describe from here on in, they will regret it. It is as hard as iron (in the words of Guru Nanak) to describe these realms. (That's probably why those spiritual people who describe realms can describe Gian Khand, but nothing more. Because only real bhagti can show us anything higher) Karam Khand. God is like the sun. His rays are everywhere but he too has place. This is Sachkhand. If Sachkhand is like a home, then karam khand is like the verandah. Saints who have realised that naam is the path to God, but did not have the powerful mantra of Guru Nanak come here. They are very blessed souls. Sach Khand. This is the Darbaar (court) of God. It cannot be explained. All that can be said is that those who meditate on Gurmat-Naam, the most powerful of mantras and the one with the greatest frequency, come here. It is beyond description. Amrit is the initiation through which you learn the Mantra of Guru Nanak and receive instructions on how to use it. When the mantra is imparted, some lose all their senses and cannot physically stop reciting it. The jot (divine light) of God is revealed and the more they meditate on the mantra, the brighter it glows. Others who have not such high karma, must work hard at its meditation and eventually they too will reach such a state. I hope this description has helped.

Where does it say that??? It seems very lovey-dovey to believe that all paths are great and lead to God, but it's patently FALSE. I've already given shabads from baNee that say that not all paths lead to Vahiguru, where are the lines that say they do?

Jedi Singh, Why did God make the different religions? In the same light, someone could ask, why did he make humans at all? Why are we apart from him? Who knows? Only Vahiguru. Other religions serve a purpose. I don't think all souls are evolved enough to want to strive for the goal that Sikhi sets out: sachkhand. Maybe heaven is enough for them.

Jss, In Nitnem, every day we read (it seems mechanically) "Saray hee daes ko daekh rahiyo mat, kouoo naa daekheeat praan patee kay" meaning "I have examined the religons of various countries, but none of them preaches true devotion to the lord of life (Vahiguru). Is this not saying that other religions fail at attaining the goal of God-realisation? As for naam. Guru Sahib makes clear that there is something called "Gurmat naam" that is necessary. Not just a kirtam naam, but GURMAT naam. Guru Gobind Singh Sahib goes so far as to say, "Raam Raheem ubaar na sak hai jakar naam ratai hai" meaning Raam and Raheem cannot save you if you repeat those naams. Gurmat Naam is above all other naam. But it is true that repeating these kirtam naam will bear some fruit, but it is not powerful enough to take one to SachKhand. Guru Sahib over and over says that Gurmat is the greatest of all faiths. It is

Hmm...I don't recall Guru Nanak saying that anywhere in Guru Granth Sahib? I do recall Guru Granth Sahib saying "Hindu annha Turkoo kaaNaa..." ie. the Hindu is blind and the Muslim one-eyed. I also recall the following Shabad that applies specifically to Jains but also to all the faiths that do not have naam: So is Guru Amar Das Sahib telling Jainis to be "good Jains", or is he essentially saying that Jainism is not a spiritually successful or promising path? The only path to Vahiguru is Gurmat. It is NOT a mixture of other religions, it is not "one path among many", it is THE path. Given that Sikhi doesn't condemn other religions, in that they will get what they work towards (heaven/paradise), but the final destination, SachKhand, is only available through Satguru jee's Gurmat naam. Take the example of Darbar Sahib Amritsar. Vahiguru can be attained by anyone of any background or caste or gender (four doors open wide), but the path to Vahiguru is only one: Gurmat. Sikhi is not easy. It's one thing that is very difficult to start with. Because there are no promises and you have to devote not just your weekend, but your entire life to it. But the reward is even bigger. Only those come into Sikhi who have great karma and have been chosen for this path by Vahiguru himself. It's not really in our control. All we can do is try our best to follow it and try to encourage others to do the same. The rest is up to Vahiguru.

Sarbloh bibek is a Khalsa rehit. The argument that it was easy to clean etc. and thats why people used it is wrong because there were many other metals available like brass, copper etc. that could have been used and were even easier to clean. Sarbloh, strictly speaking, is carbon steel. Carbon steel cannot be poured into shapes, it needs to be beaten. Cast iron has a bit more carbon and can be poured into shapes. Both are generally considered acceptable for use by bibekis, since both rust and give off iron into the cooking.

khalistani, that shabad "Nishanay sikhi..." is in the Appendix of Dasam Granth. That means some have it and some don't and it is not considered a part of the accepted body. Most scholars agree that it is not written by Guru Sahib and came much later. This discussion has already taken place and I too won't argue the matter here. And the question of Bhai Sahib accepting or not accepting it does not come up, since he hasn't written about it and it was not considered a part of saroops at that time anyways.

Where did Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh say Dasam Granth was a mixture?

People have mentioned that there are pictures of Baba Jarnail Singh's body. I collect pictures and I'm going to post one of the better pictures I have come across. They aren't the best quality. And I"m not sure if someone can or cannot reach a conclusion after seeing this, but here it is:

Here's a really low quality picture. But I havn't been able to find any others.

Ok, let's take everything anyone says is bani and read it and call it Gurbani. That's the alternative. If this attitude was in the Panth, we'd be in serious trouble. Kachi bani like "jit dar lakh muhammada(n)", ratanmala etc. would all be read. But thank Vahiguru that there were and will always remain some Singhs with Bibek-Budhi who refuse to allow kachi bani to be read and will always oppose it. It is disrespectful to NOT take such false compositions and call them false.

I believe that many things from Sarbloh Granth are indeed right and true, but at the same time, the Encyclopaedia of Sikhism says:

Like the others in this thread I will say that if you are a Sikh, then you already have a "vichola". That is Satguru Granth Sahib. Someone who tries to attach you to him/herself or an organization as a vichola is doing you no favour. Here's an experiment that perhaps you could try: Go before Satuguru Granth Sahib and do a sincere ardas that you being Guru jee's Sikh do not want to look anywhere else. Ask for Guru jee to lead you. Guru jee is the greatest guide of all and once you go to Guru jee's feet and ask for his leadership, and are willing to obey and follow unconditionally, Guru Sahib will certainly lead. But a cautionary note: make sure your desire for a "vichola" isn't a desire to meet Vahiguru without any of the effort. Make sure it's not a request made out of laziness ie. "you do it for me". Being a Sikh of the Guru is a difficult path in that you must obey every hukam. The different sadhs/sants will offer you a false path which seems much easier but gets nowhere.

To be clear, there are two different smaagams going on in Delhi at the moment, simultaneously. One is taking place in the historic Gurdwaras of Delhi and is being conducted by Akhand Kirtani Jatha. The other is taking place in Fatehnagar Delhi and is being conducted by Parbandhaki Panchain. Mod Note : This thread is cleared by mods! Keep the discussion simple & free of politics. If someone wants to get information please contact them @ http://akjinternational.org/contacts.htm rather than asking from someone who do not know nothing. If you have any question with the sewadars of the forum pls contact us @ contact@sikhsangat.com. Thanks

The comment that anywhere we take Guru Sahib becomes "beautiful" seems misguided. Does this mean that we should take Guru Sahib everywhere to make places "beautiful"? There are some things that a Gursikh will not do and this is to take Guru Sahib anywhere where there is not total respect. Were Gursikhs who have given shaheedee to get back Guru Sahib's saroops from inappropriate places and people totally confused and gave their lives for nothing? Rather than accepting faults, we try to justify them.

One of the hardest things for me to do in the Gurmat class I teach is to explain death be it shaheedee or chaRaiee of a Gursikh or joti jot divas of Guru Sahib. These kids are from ages 4 to 9. I'm no expert but if confronted with this problem, I would probably try and explain to the child that Daddy has to gone to Guru Sahib. Guru Sahib needed Daddy so he went. Telling a 2 year old that his/her father is gone "forever" is also a concept that is hard for the child to comprehend. Forever is a time that is hard to fathom for even a grown person. I'm not sure how someone could answer the "how long" question. Hopefully Guru Sahib will do kirpaa and give the family the faith and courage to continue and deal with their loss.

If you know that pad-chhed is not the real saroop of Guru Granth Sahib jee, I would think that you would want to receive amrit in the hazooree of Lareedaar Saroop. This would make sense.

I'm glad that most members on this discussion forum do agree that Lareedaar saroop is the proper form of Satguru Granth Sahib and reading from lareedaar has many many benefits over pad-chhed. Well, that's all well and good, but of no use if we don't learn lareedaar. Honest to goodness, it's very easy to learn to read lareedaar especially because Guru Sahib himself will help his Sikh learn this essential skill. I'm providing two links that are very very useful: http://www.panthkhalsa.org/Hukam.ppa The above link is where I first started to learn lareedaar. I'd read the hukumnama every day and soon it became easier and easier. http://www.sikhitothemax.com/new/larree.asp?pageno=100 The above is another great tool. You can change pages by replacing the 100 with another number. I really hope everyone takes some time to learn this essential skill. I promise you that you'll notice how much more meaning you get when reading baaNee if you do it from lareedaar. Let's bring lareedaar saroop back to the Gurgaddi Takhat where Guru Sahib belongs.

The question asked was what would we have done if pad-chhed wasn't available. answer: we would have taken the time to learn lareedaar and thus taken the time to learn meanings and grammar and become over all better Sikhs. I can say to you honestly that ever since I learned lareedaar my understanding and reflection upon baaNee has increased a lot. If you want to do paath, you have to make an effort to know what it means so you know words and how they split and so you learn the meaning. It enhances concentration. I can even say this honestly: I find it easier and more satisfying to read lareedaar than pad-chhed. Mistakes made when reading lareedaar are temporary and the person goes and fixes them. Mistakes in pad-chhed are enshrined and can not be fixed. Lareedaar opens the door to perfection. That chance is never even present with pad-chhed. I ask again: why would Guru Sahib give his Sikhs lareedaar and not pad-chhed? And then what gives us the right to change it? Next thing we know, we'll be hearing "did Guru Sahib give us Khanday Batay Da amrit or did he really even care if it was made in a sarbloh bata with a khanda? Does it matter if the bata is sarbloh or steel or brass?" We can't change anything Guru Sahib gave us. Especially not our Satguru.

Khalistani, There's no point in debating with you. I told you: baaNee is not manmat. Breaking it up and then calling a pad-chhed saroop "Poora Satguru" is. A pad-chhed saroop should not have been created and once it was created, it should not now be allowed to sit on the Takhat. That's it. And if it is on the Takhat, it is wrong. As for coming to Malton, ok, no problem. What do you want to do? When should I come? Do you want to do gurbaaNee veechaar or do you have something else in mind?

What should be done with pad-chhed saroops? First of all they must not be printed anymore. And they should not have their parkaash done. What to do with the existing biRs is up to the Panth. Khalistani: >>>>> so before u talk please e careful if u talkin bout me, its good but be careful, ok? >>>>>> Ok. I'll be careful. I'll also keep in mind: "Nanak fikaai boliai tan man fikaa hoi. Fiko fikaa sadeeai fikay fikee soi. Fikaa dargah saTeeaa(n) mukh thukaa(n) fikaay pai. Fikaa moorakh akheeai paaNaa lahai sazaai." Don't get me wrong though. I never said that the baaNee becomes manmat. What I am trying to say is that to call a pad-chhed saroop "Satguru" is not right. It is not the form of Satguru Granth Sahib. And its existence is manmat. But again, take some deep breaths and think over what I've said. If I'm wrong, then hopefully Satguru jee will give me sumat and the same goes for you.

You've got a very filthy mouth 'khalistani'. Do you think you have more love for Guru Sahib? Or that I am out to put down Satguru Granth Sahib? No. You're misguided and [admin-cut] If 2 saroops of pad-chhed don't match, then which one is my "Poora Satguru" ie. the perfect Satguru? One is flawed. So you are saying a flawed pad-chhed saroop is not manmat? Your argument "pad-chhed is manmat but pad-chhed saroop is not" is void of any sense. There's nothing I can say to you. No logic works. Not the words of Bhai Sahib Randheer Singh and not the words of Baba Kartar Singh Bhindranwale. So who can set you straight? Only Satuguru jee himself. But your method or debating this issue (swearing) shows how much GurbaNee has effected you. Maybe you should just go do some paath and cool down. Pad Chhed is manmat. Live with it.

If pad-chhed is manmat, then the PRODUCT of pad-chhed ie. a pad-chhed saroop would also be manmat. To break Guru Sahib into thousands of pieces isn't manmat? So the saroop that someone could decide to create with the new order of baaNee would also not be manmat? What you're saying makes no sense. If the cutting of words is manmat, then the product is also manmat. To answer when the first pad-chhed was done: it was done by the Bhasaurias in the 1920s. They wanted to print a pad-chhed saroop but were stopped by the Panth and the presses were stopped at GauRee Raag. After that in the 50s, some publishers started printing pad-chhed. The Chief Khalsa Divaan, SGPC and Sant Samaj all opposed it and passed resolutions that it could not be parkaash or have akhand paath done. Then more and more publishers started publishing it, and the Lazy Sikh community who thought reading lareedaar was too hard started to buy these saroops and eventually everyone forgot the resolutions and just went with this manmat.