Yasmin

peace :doh: I just wondered after reading this thread... what is the position on dating in Sikhism? Are there any specific guidlines on how people of the opposite sex should interact? If someone is in a long-term relationship with a view to get married say in a few years is this acceptable in Sikhism? Thanx if anyone can clarify!

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A muslim who is in a club trying to get a date with a non-muslim or any person is not following what is written in the Qur'an or the example of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him in ANY way at all. You'd think from the remarks on this thread that all muslims are evil converters. It seems to come up on these boards time and time again. May I remind you all that any muslim who does this is actually going AGAINST Islamic teachings and is therefore in no position to be trying to convert someone else. Yes it is very sad to hear all these stories and it brings me no joy as a muslim to read that a girl or guy has been converted in such disgusting circumstances. In my view it nullifies the conversion if someone is falsely led into converting to Islam - it means absolutely nothing. You are a muslim if you follow the teachings in the Qur'an and example of the Prophet (pbuh) noone who 'converts' out of love is a muslim, noone who does not believe in those things is a muslim whether they said the necessary sentance to convert or not. I believe it is necessary for both the Sikh and Muslim communities to work together on this issue as it is soemthing that affects us both. We should be uniting to solve this issue.

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So you know that in Islam we have Hajj... big deal most people know that it doesnt mean you can just start drawing your own conclusions from it. What you do not know and understand are the reasonings and practices which go on in hajj in detail so do not presume to know about it therefore you are no authority to mention it in a conversation. We should only speak of what we know about.

mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan I do not know exactly what you're hoping to achieve by pasting away parts of the Qur'an on this site, but I agree with what Pheena said. You are no scholar of Islam or the Qur'an so do not come to your own conclusions and interpretations of what is written. That is exactly how things become distorted when uninformed people start making their own judgements.

Just for the record, Muslims are not instructed to kill all Jews in the Qur'an.

lol! thanx, i just started uni last october so been busy. No one could scare me off :cool: :TH:

I despise these men who think that by converting people they will gain reward when in fact they are probably very bad muslims themselves. and will gain no such reward for tricking someone who doesn't even believe in Islam into converting its just plain stupid. They need to work on becoming better muslims themselves without trying to convert all the girls by dating them which isn't even allowed in Islam anyway. LOL, please lets be sensible :umm:

I didn't take any offence :wub:

Peace 'Namaaz' isn't ritualism it is praying to God. We all pray to God in a different way and the Islamic way of praying is how you see it and the things we say while we're praying are praises to God and at the end we say our own personal prayer. Of course some muslims probably recite the prayer without even thinking about God but that is soemthing we all have to work on. I wanted to ask a question and I hope it is not offense or anything if it is then apologies in advance. I looked at the pictures posted above and noticed that there is a circle of 'light' around the Guru's heads. This looks very similar to the kind of thing used in Christian art - the 'halo' idea, is it the same sort of thing?

Simran9 I hope you're family are ok?... I agree everyone should do as much as they can the disaster is so widespread and there are so many people who need help.

This is meant with no offense but simply as a correction, the place is actually called Sri Harmandir Sahib and not the golden temple oops sorry my sikh friend always refers to it as the golden temple so i automatically did my mistake

I saw the part when he went to the golden temple, it was interesting. It looks like a lovely place

I dont want to take this off topic any longer but would just like to say Bilja Singh never did I say that only i know the 'truth' like you stated you have misinterpreted my words there I am not so arrogant as to think i know the real truth and millions of other muslims dont. About Bush and Kerry it looks like its going to be really close... at least its saying it is on the news at the moment and I have really no idea which way I think it'll go :T:

No, converts are different and indeed they often know more about the religion than those born into it. A convert would understand such things such as Shraiah Law perspectives because he/she has the fundamental beleifs in the religion and so will agree with its teachings or they will not have converted in the first place.

lol bikramjit singh you never fail to amuse me

You are not muslim so whatever laws there are in shariah about apostates will not affect you. you will never truely understand Shariah law or islam just as I will never fully understand sikhism because we simply just don't share the same beliefs. That is why for example this law you will never understand, just like there are plenty of things in Sikhism I will never understand or agree with. In terms of islam he is not innocent because he turned away from the truth. nope, you are free to disagree with me but only on the basis that you look to both sides of the story when it often appears you only look at things from a western or anti islam direction. If you have read both pro and anti islam statements about issues and then you still decide it is full of violence then that is your decision I pity that decision but I could not say you havent tried to be open minded abo ut it and I would leave it at that. Sorry to whoevers thread this was for messing it up lol.

I cant really advise you as I dont know what the Sikh communities are like in those areas but I just wanted to say well done for getting a place to go to one of those excellent uni's!! :lol:

Bikramjit Singh I hardly think you are in a position to judge my own beleif and knowledge of islam. I dont just base my opinions on what I know... thats stupid of anyone to do, instead I read up aon different issues and know and speak to many knowledgable people who will have far more knowledge of Islam than you could know. So my views are not just my own and comments like is very narrow minded. 'My verison' of Islam is the same as any one else's, just because I may follow a different interpretation and view on some issues to some people does not make my 'version' someow wrong. it amazes me how every time we have these discussions you talk as if you know what the whole muslim community is like. No, I said I have limited knowledge on the subject, but from what I do know and from tlaking to other people there are definately things that the taliban did that weren't from Shariah or were misinterpretations/extremes of Shariah laws. just because they studied it all their lives does not mean they were so perfect that they got everything right. Have you actually eve read a pro-taliban article or website? Or do you only focus on everything that goes against? have you tried to understanmd? If you havent then please go and read with an open mind. If you have and you still reach the same conclusions about them then you are free to have that view. Mehtab Singh thanx for your information. I notice Bikramjit Singh that when presented with this evidence you didnt correct what you said before but still decided to focus entirely on Saudi. I would leave simple as that. A typical response, basing the values of Islam on what terrorists do. There arent hundreds of thousands of terrorists out there, just the ones that are terrorists and do terrible things like what you show above get so much media coverage that it is shoved in everyones faces everytime it happens which gives the impression its happening all the time and theres so many terrorists out there. The reality is that there isnt. The number of 'terrorists/extremists' in comparison to the total muslim population is small. No doubt you wont agree. Muslim extremists and radical groups have only one aim and that is a political aim and a want to have vengance on America and its allies. That is their priority and they will use Islam in a mnipulative fashion possible to get their way. They are not interested in trying to preserve the true nature of islam, instead just use it for their own political gains. Bikramjit Singh, from this and other posts it is clear you have already made up your mind of a violent and dangerous Islam so I will not discuss these issues further as you do not have an open mind to even try and see that there is another side to the story so often portrayed by those anti islam. I take some time out to read views from people with the opposite view of islam to me and try to understand and research these issues but it appears you are unwilling to do so.

Bikramjit Singh. Obviously being Muslim I beleive that Islam is the truth so firstly I could never understand why someone would want to turn away from that truth. This is a point we will never see eye to eye on because Sikhism regards this very differently (ier all religions being paths to the same destination or God - correct me if i'm wrong). If in Shariah Law it says an apostate must be killed and this is with evidence and proven to be true. Who am I to refute the laws of God?? That is my answer. The taliban have been widely misunderstood through prejudices in the media but they were no innocents. They took things into their own 'extreme', so no they did not implement shariah correctly. This isnt an excuse its true. How can you base opinions of shariah on countries which either say they are implementing shariah and do it wrongly and make up their own laws claiming its shariah, or countries that only apply a few of the rules and not others? How can we then say well look this country implements shariah and lits doing wrong and all these injustices?mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan As do I, unforetunately the voice of muslims in the west is taking too long to develop and yes that is a fault of our own community. There are plenty of wrongs that occur in Islamic societies that need to be sorted out. I'm not denying Israel has a right to exist but concerning Gaza and that area they have taken land that is not theirs in that case. That is what half of the conflict is about. Yes you're right it is irrational and inhuman because aswell as being soldiers and having their own terrorists, there are also plenty of innocents in iosrael. I definately am not of the beleif that the whole country and population should be exterminated. Its a case of reaching a treaty and finding a way for the two nations to exist peacefully or with somer espect along side each other. And I agree with you that too often when innocents are killed there is not enoigh outcry you have a valid point there. And I wish as much as you that my community woul;d sort itself out we have alot opf problems. But the muslim fighters only fight back l;ike this because they have also suffered terrible injustices. It is not right to fight violence against violence but they feel this is their last resort. They need education and help on both sides if these situations are to be stopped. But this is a long way off. Ther e are plenty of problems in the muslim community around the world, many many problems, but it is not because of Islam that this happens. Islam the religion IS peaceful but its when muslims who are after all just people who interpret things wrongly and take things to extremes that all this trouble occurs. I wish for all these things to be stopped as much as any of you. Just as the sikh community has areas that need to be improved so does Islam. It is just a case of that islam has over 1 billion followers worldwide whereas Sikhism has a smaller following in comparison, therefore there is going to be more media coverage and reports on islam and the way Muslims are behaving than say how Sikhs are behaving. Add that to the fact that Sikhs seems a more peaceful people anyway and that is soemthing muslims can definately learn from.

I did look at the website and some of the articles. I am in no way saying CAIR is an innocent party and I disagree with some of what its members and the people who run it have said.. but we still should always look at both sides of the story that is my main point. If soem things on that website are found to be true then I am not going to try and prove otherwise... likewise if it is proven that articles on that site are wrong I shall not refute it.

Mr Bikramjit Singh... if only I had enough knowledge I would certainly discuss these 'claims' but I fear I would not do the subject justice as my knowledge is limited at present. What I will say though is that just because a country is 'Islamic' and has a muslim majority does not mean that they are following correctly the rules of Islam and Shariah Law. If you are going to take what these countries do at face value that is silly because there is no true Islamic country in the world. There is no country that truely follows Islam the way it should so using these countries as examples has no basis. yes Bush is a terrorist, as much as Osama bin Laden is. Iraq has nothing to do with osama bin Laden, and bushs reasons for going to war are clearly suspicious. It was on the news just recently that there are not clear links between saddam and bin laden. So why is he not looking for bin laden and instead running off to iraq and causing chaos in that country? His country was attacked correct, but you think without reason? Which government was it who funded the taliban and was once friends with saddam hussein? Who funds the israeli government when they commit atrocities against Palestinians who are called terrorists for fightng back like Bush is doing? And america wasnt attacked without warning, there is evidence that the CIA knew of an attack before it had even happened - the american government were aware of al queda long before 9/11 happened yet they did nothing about it. I am in no way saying that the ways in which some 'Islamists' are fighting back is the correct way Islamically and morally, I am actually extremely against suicide bombings, kidnap pings and beheadings etc but to think Bush is an innocent in all this is very naive. With all due respect I would like to discuss these things with you but as I have seen before from previous debates with you you're views are clearly anti islam and I see no point in discussing with a closed mind.

lol Yusuf Islam is a peaceful man, if you're going to beleive a blatantly anti islamic website for information about him with evidence based upon what some columnist has written then you are being naive. If you want to know anything about CAIR from a balanced point of view whats the point of going to an anti-cair website? If you want to research the truth yourself then look at both sites dont just go onto very anti sites like this and beleive every word they say. This is very narrow minded. Before you make any judgement you should look at both sides to a story but no doubt you have only looked at this anti site right and decided you now beleive everything they say. A site that is anti anything will dig out any dirt it can, even if it has no basis so you should always be wary of these sites, whatever the subject.

It is also an insult to group the muslim population under those stereotypes that you display above. Bush is one of the biggest terrorists on this planet if i was voting in america I would never dream of voting for him.