Jaipal2004

I believe the first Sant Ji are Sant Baba Nahar Singh Ji (adopted nephew of the great Sant Baba Nand Singh Ji Kaleran Wale) - they have done many a good thing so I am not sure how to take this video

maybe the country has or hasn't given anything but our Sikh forefathers have given it everything so we should respect their sacrifice, treat this as a time to remember their values and what they did for us. As Churchill said "ask what you can do for your country, not what it can do for you" it's a sad state of affairs that we feel we can't attend a parade that honours the independence gained by the sacrifices of mahaan Sikh Saheeds!

I had it described in the most simplest of ways: all good deeds add 0's (zero's) - to make them significant you need to add a value to the start - taking Amrit does this - it simply adds a 1 and therefore makes all the zero's worth something / significant Hope this summarises :-)

Raaj Karega Khalsa - it doesn't say Raj Karega Khalsa, Khalistan Wich !! Yes there are problems but we want to run a country when we can't even run our own houses?? We have fighting internally, within Gurdwara's, we can't even eliminate basic issues like casteism etc yet you want a country?! What will that achieve? Singho - set your sights high, there will be a day when the Kesri Nishan Sahib will fly above the Lal Qila again - we don't want to limit ourselves to a singular state!!

Originally when I looked, the Darbar Sahib in the middle of the Sarovar had an Aum sign and a hyperlink which brought up "durgiana mandir" etc. I then realised I could click edit and amend - which I then did to Harmandir Sahib. thanks

Ok - I think i've changed it - can somebody please check it thanks

WJKK WJKF Hi - pretty sure this wasn't the case before but now if you search for Amritsar on Google Maps somebody has 'claimed'/'noted' the Harmandir Sahib as a Durgiana Mandir. I am at work and unsure of how to get this rectified but can somebody please advise and we can get it changed quickly?? thanks

Hi - I consider myself a Gursikh although I am not Amritdhari. I would be happy to meet up with you (I am from Birmingham) and help where possible. Whilst my religious knowledge is dwarfed by more learned people here I am not completely clueless. Gur Fateh

It is petty discussions like this that are diluting Sikhi - we shouldn't get tied up and having arguments about the colours of our dastaars or makeup!!! We should be bringing people to the folds!! It is amazing the number of people on here who disagree with things that Sikh channel are 'portraying' about Sikhi yet have not probably even bothered to say they're doing an excellent job or to give them funding. And as for the Veer who said that if the Sikh channel are good etc then God'll look after them for funding - this is not too unlike people who drink and eat meat and then say "if Guru Ji wills it, then he will take me away from these vices" Come on people!!!! If you want to argue - argue about important things, not the colours of clothes!!!!

exactly - why wait for the attack to happen in our most holiest of shrines? You are saying the attack was planned, the group inside had time to fortify themselves - did it not occur to them the implications of lying in wait in the Gurdwara? should they not have taken the battle away from the Gurdwara complex??

ok but the very fact that it had to be fortified suggests that those inside the complex knew of the upcoming battle/onslaught. And this begs the question - if they knew, they should have taken the battle outside and preserved the sanctity of the Gurughar.

playing devil's advocate: why did they feel it necessary to fortify the complex? It obviously didn't take them a few minutes and was a planned thing. We should not be afraid to ask questions as to why they felt it necessary to fortify the house of God?? ... the only logical answer is that they fully realised that there would be an onslaught and they would need to be protected?? Thoughts please?

ttt

WJKK WJKF I have SGGSJ Sainchiyan in 2 parts that were used whilst I was learning Gurbani at the Gurdwara. WHilst they are wrapped in rumalas I feel they are not being cared for and respected as well as should be the case. As they have not been used for a while it would be a shame that some other preemi can't make use of these for their own reading pleasure. If some Gursikh wants these for learning Gurbani or even to keep in their home then they can arrange to collect from myself. I live by the J9, M6 Ikea and am available via email on jai@air-tel.co.uk. Collection will need to be after the 10th March 2008. I am not trying to be disrespectful and have avoided trying to make this thread sound like "for sale" "donation" etc etc so bhul chuk maaf please. WJKK WJKF Jaipal Singh

Thank you all for your comments. The Gurdwara have now turned round and said that they don't marry anybody outside of their own immediate vicinity. This is just one of several excuses we've been given by so called men-of-God because they're afraid to speak the truth. When we've gone to the Gurdwara and spoken to the relevant people they have told us they are prepared to help or suggest things but on the phone they are quick to reject any notion of this. I always thought SIkh's were people of honour and being brought up in a Sikh family since birth I question how this has come to happen? Surely this cannot be a good thing? They are breaking people away from Sikhi and not bringing them closer. Chatanga - drop me a PM if u are able to get a chance.

Thank you all for your comments. I accept that I am not an Amritdhari Sikh but nevertheless I do go Gurdwara and lead a Sikh life to the best of my abilities. You all seem to be missing the point. I didn't say that she considers herself non-Sikh but merely explained she was from Ravidasia community. How would you feel - going to the Gurdwara all your life, doing seva only to be told - I'm sorry: We can't marry you because you have omitted Kaur from your name? Is this what we've resorted to? No name means no wedding and therefore no Sikhi? You are all jumping on your high-horse and claiming I know nothing about Sikhi but let me ask you this : Do the people who think adding Singh or Kaur makes you a better Sikh? Do those who bring politics in the Diwan Hall feel better for doing this? Do the Sikhs drinking, pubbing, clubbing and whatever else feel balanced because they've got Singh or Kaurin their name? Bhul Chuk Maaf

I am not saying that using Kaur/Singh isn't a big deal - just feel like the Gurdwara are judging us by our names rather than our deeds or even misdeeds? I am not an amritdhari Sikh but even so my faith is important to me and marriage outside of a Gurdwara would feel like I've not been blessed or even 'given the ok' by Waheguru. I want us to be happy but not at the expense of leaving out something as big and important as an Anand Karaj?

Hi, I am Sikh but fail to see how adding Kaur or Singh makes me or in this case my fiancee more of a Sikh? You are right - Guru Ji took on Singh after becoming baptised. By her not having Kaur are you saying she is lacking faith? No - that was her given name. The point is not that she doesn't want Kaur - it is that the Gurdwara committee think by adding Kaur she is a 'certified Sikh' and therefore there willbe no issues. By this logic - do you hand back the name Singh/Kaur if you've done something bad? And - Singh should be used in it's true meaning - to drop the partitions/seperations etc. and to create a brotherhood. But that's another thread in itself. Bhaji - it's not Soho road - as a regular visitor to this Gurdwara I know that they are very strict on Rehat-Maryada but I have never known them to discriminate against anybody and I have been going there for the last 20 years and do seva there regularly. Bhul Chuk Maaf

WJKK WJKF after finding a suitable Gurdwara (in the West Mids) for our Anand Karaj we approached them to book the date. We had the date granted and completed a form as per the Gurudwara's request. On the front of the form it says that if you don't have Singh or Kaur in your name you should change this via deed poll before the wedding - we ignored this as we are both Sikh although my fiancee doesn't have Kaur in her name. Since then - the booking secretary has said we cannot get married as they've had issues before with non-sikh people marrying sikh persons in the Gurdwara. At this point you should note that we are both Gursikhs - doing seva and going to the Gurdwara regularly. Whereas I have Singh as my last name she doesn't have Kaur. This is clear discrimination and in direct contradiction to SIkh beliefs. I am scared that we are turning into fanatics like some Muslim factions when instead we should be proud that Sikhism is a religion that welcomes all and makes no distinction. My fiancee is Ravidasia and I believe it is quite common for them not to use Kaur or Singh. From my understanding Singh and Kaur should only be used after you become Amritdhari anyway - surely if they want her to change her name then they should take back the names of those 'Sikhs' who are currently residing in prisons ??!! This is a side point and shouldn't detract from the underlying fact - we are two Sikhs who wish to marry in the Gurdwara. Although we have a receipt to confirm the booking the secretary has said that they need to discuss this with the committee. I would've thought that if 2 Sikh people wanted to get married in a Guru Darbar then this should be allowed - why are they making distinctions? If somebody can help our situation then please get in touch. We are based in tthe West Midlands and because we've booked the afternoon venue etc we are getting stress and frustrated because so called Gursikhs are causing us problems. We believe we've done nothing wrong and am at a loss as to why and how they can do this?! WJJK WJKF