Pheena

The Guru does not demand Meditation and inturn dictates penalties for those who do not obey. The cause(of being in the penalty box) is not that they do not meditate, the cause is ones direct/indirect or awarefull/unawarefull choice to remain in Ignorance that places them in the penalty box. Ignorance is the cause for the penetly box which is the creation of ones ownself as not everyone is ready to let go of the illusion. Now at the same time Ignorance exists in ones mind due to the lack of meditation, lack of Guidence, Grace, Guru, which in turn can be used as the reason for the penalty box, but it is not a direct reason. So if we say that not doing path is the cause of ones misery, then we place one in a penalty of being punished for not worshipping Guru/God..etc. And the whole approach to religion becomes tainted and one performs these acts of worship out fear for punishment not out of Love. If we take the approach of giving responsibility to man for creating his own penalty boxes, then God no longer becomes responsiible, rather it is the action of ones own self, the penalty box is self created through the direct/indirect corralation of not meditating or not being aware of ones own self, of Grace, of God, of Guru. So these 'penalty boxes' become catalysts for an individual to seek out a greater, more Truthful source to quinch his Thirst.

Laugh away! You will find spontaeous laughter an escape...I had found myself laughing whenever i would look in a mirror, the reflection of face of this body would trigger an awareness of the Truth behind me living this life, the realization of how ignorant i could have been believing that this body is mine, that this body is me. That this life i am living is so false, yet i live it without this realization. This awareness towards this ignorace would trigger a laughter. I would be laughing at my ownself of how blind i could've been. If you feel it bothers other people, then i suggest you sit in the back or a secluded space where others wouldn't not be disturbed. best advice i can give you is sincerely pray for guidence, you will find your questions answered before you can ask them.

Whether this dream was an actual message from an external source or simply your own inner guiding voice, be patient. Give yourself some time, when you are ready you will find this voice. Reminescant in those memories of the dream. Allow yourself to submerge in the thought of being guided. If you are unsure, then go to both the Gurudwara and the Mandir and surrender yourself in prayer, surely an honest inquiry is bound to yield its answers.

Faith is nothing without Trust. The question is not whether you should/will have Faith, rather do you Honestly Trust God?? If Complete Trust is the foundation of your Faith then it will never shake...ever.

Ahh thanks sis and yes i am a girl, i found this site from my brother who uses it and anyway thanks for that but im feeling anow and im 18 and ive got my A level exams and i feel so depressed and under pressure since its my final school year and im finding it hard to cope with exams and leaving my mates but i think i can go through it hopeefully with the help of waheguru. Dont know what made me make this thread i guess it was a moment of desperation ahhhhhh so you are just stressed from school. You want to kill yourself over school? Don't be silly....If that is depression then everyone i know who goes to school is depressed because that is all I hear from my friend that they have exam and not enough time, too much pressure and so on. Its just high stress, do some Yoga, it'll relieve it in no time. you had me worried for a moment....

You should also explore the possiblity that your Aunt has become illed with Hysteria. A common occurance in women due to very high emotional and/or fear states of the mind. My Cousin also has had this few times, where she would just neglect her children and just leave the house. They would find her few hours later in the Gurudwara. she would come home and pretty much become erratic speaking sermons on Gurbani and so forth. Whether it is truely a form of hysteria or an actual super natural occrance, im not too sure. But it never hurts to see if a reliable doctor can diagnose her. If she is in India then i must put emphasis on "RELIABLE", just be sure that this person is a specialist, that will diagnose her thorougly before he gives her any medication.

Just as a mute cannot explain the taste of sugar, your lips will remain sealed. Every time you think of it there will be a lump in your throat, your heart will become full, so full; tears will flow, or laughter, but you will not be able to say a word. People will think your mind has lost its balance. Your inside will be so overfull that it will pour out of every pore in your body. You will dance, you will sing, but you will not be able to speak. So it was that Nanak sang and Mardana played. Whenever anyone asked Nanak about his state he would look at Mardana and nod. Mardana would pick up his instrument and begin to play, and Nanak would begin to sing. Nanak said nothing, he only sang. When you hear a sage – if you hear him properly – you will find he is singing, not talking. You will find poetry in his words. Even as he sits he dances. You will find a kind of intoxication in the atmosphere around him, an intoxication that does not lull you to sleep or into senselessness, but rather awakens you. It takes you not into forgetfulness but into wakefulness. And if you are ready to flow along with it, it can carry you to unknown and wonderful shores. If you are really ready to dive down deep into the ocean it can take you on a long astonishing journey – to the ultimate. The sage’s tune is more melody than words. He speaks less, sings more, for what he has attained cannot be expressed in words. It will perhaps be transmitted by a tune, a low murmur; a slight glimpse and you may get carried away by it. Gurdjieff defined two kinds of art. In ordinary art the artist, the singer, the sculptor expresses his feelings. Even a great painter like Picasso does no more than capture his state of mind in his work. Gurdjieff calls this subjective art. Objective art includes the Taj Mahal or the Ajanta-Ellora caves. In this the artist does not portray his feelings but creates a condition that elicits certain feelings in the viewer. There is the statue of Buddha. If it is truly a piece of objective art – which it can be only if the sculptor has known what buddhahood means – then you will find yourself getting connected with it in a mysterious way as you keep looking at it. You will find that you have descended deep within yourself and the idol will become contemplation. The idols in the temples were not put there without a reason. They are all part of this objective art. Music also was not created accidentally; those who went into samadhi first gave voice to music. Having heard the melody of Om within, in various ways they tried to capture the melody of this resonance in the realm of sound, so that those who know not the music within may get some taste of it. Little children invariably come to the temple in order to partake of the offerings made to the deity. Whatever your reason, there is value in going to the temple. The external sounds of the bells and devotional songs can become a divine gift if they touch off remembrance of the music within. The deep pleasure in music is a glimpse of samadhi. Dance also is an objective art, thus the tradition of dancing before the deity. Witnessing the dance, your boat may suddenly leave the shore and sail off to distant lands! One thing you must keep in mind about Nanak is that whatever he has said, he has sung; whatever he wanted to convey, he has conveyed along with music. For the real thing is the music – the nada, the sound. What he says is a mere excuse when his aim is to trigger the resonance within you. If it begins to resound in the right way your thought processes will break and you will find yourself on a different plane of words altogether. If you have gathered enough courage to flow along, if you are not holding on like mad to the shore, then the third happening – contemplation – will also occur.

A common misconception that suicide will solve all your problems, yet one fails to consider the repricautions to Suicide itself. Where will you go after you kill this body in which you reside?? You will inturn just create more bad Karma for yourself through Suicide. Your Karmas will not just go away with killing yourself, you will instead have to take another birth and balance out your karms. So no Suicide will not get rid of your problems instead you will just create more problems for yourself. Today this life doesn't seem like a Gift, it seems more of a punishment, so your reaction is not at all surprising, it is rather a byproduct of the perception or view you hold towards life. You say you "believe" in God, yet i must ask you what exactly is it that you "Believe"? Just Believing in God is not enough my beloved friend.....it can be the beginning, but not the end. Your problems, whatever they might be will not be solved just because you believe in God, unless you open yourself to understanding the ways of this God that you believe in. Allow yourself to see everything as a blessing, even the suffering, the hardship....Allow him to take control of your life and be content in his Will, his Way. Then your believing will transform your life. You are questioning whether life is worth it. To say that Life is not worth living is like saying God is not worth Loving. Life is his Gift, to reject Life would be similar to rejecting God. Derive this "believing" from the experience of his Love, then you will considered all this heartaches that you are going through in your life a blessing. His Grace. Dukh Daroo Sukh Roag Bhaiya. If you can understand the essences of this one line, then the question whether life is worth living in Hardship will never cross your mind. The question that I would like to ask you is would you have asked whether life is worth Living had you been happy or been this inquriing of Life, God, your own existance, trying to find reasons behind this life, question God, had you never known Sadness? Life is crap, if you allow it to become crap. Nothing happens on its own. First step is take responsibility for whatever state your life is in, that it is your own doing. When we take responsibility, this then allows us to rectify the situation, to change things in our lives for the better. When we impart this responsiblity to others, or lets say God, then this life becomes a Punishment that he imposed upon us without our permission. Then God becomes cruel and inhumane, uncompassionate who punishes his creation which couldn't be farther from the Truth. Now you can very well say, How could I want or desire these bad cirucmstances for myself? or Why, surely only you an answer this question. When we Act towards others do we act with the right thoughts, with the right state of mind? We create these problems throught our unconscious actions, thoughts that we project, the worries that we project, the unawarefull living that we live. We do things without thinking, without compassion, without Love. We react without thinking, we live for the satisfying moment disregarding what these actions will result in our future. Yes it is a bitter pill to swallow. But as soon as you swallow this bitterness and allow it to work its magic the sooner you will realize that life becomes exactly that which you make it to be. Whatever it is taht your Project, it is going to become your future. If you are miserable right now then you are projecting that misery into your future and your future is a product of your Present. Don't surpress your bitterness, transform it into Love, Experience of Life, Learn from it, Grow from it. LIfe is about Growing from our hardships, our experiences that we experience in life. So Change your Present state of Living and your future will unfold accordingly. Become more enduring mentally in these situations. Learn to absorb the impact of life with Compassion and Love. Pray that you may given strength to deflect the negativitie that exists around you, Pray that you be given strength to overcome your weaknesses. Become more Patient, Become more Loving towards everyone. Swallow the pride of your Ego and become more Humble. Let your heart pray with emmense Love. Read Gurbani whenver you feel as such, Sing Gurbani whenever your heart is in pain...allow the Words of the Guru to become a medium for you to release your pain...allow the Pain to further move you towards your Guru, towards Truth. Surround yourself with Loving people, Surround yourself with True Sangat. Surround yourself with Positive people. Become an inspiration for those who too are struggling through hardship of life. Become a beacon for those who cannot find their way. Help others who have fallen. Do seva, read inspirational Books, search for answers in your heart, Meditate, Do Yoga and fill yourself with Love first and your whole life will begin to project this Love and your Future will be filled with Love, Love and nothing but Love.

Things are negative when you percieve them to be negative and they affect you when you allow them to affect you. Nothing can affect you without your permission. Who is going to look down upon you? I don't see it as a question if others will look donw upon you, rather how will you let it affect you. Some times we are faced with tough choices which must be made by us alone while disregarding the other. The other can very easily brand a lable upon you with the Manmukhta wedding, yet the other is unable to understand the position you were in, the circumstance you were placed in . If you take your Guru to be the sole Judge, then the Guru already knows your circumstances. Although the Guru already knows, but for your own sake share your thoughts, worries, troubles, through your prayer. The Guru is afterall understanding. Be within the world, yet not 'IN' the world. Walk through the lavish wedding, yet remain simple in your attitude. Wear the Heavy dress, yet walk with a light heart. It seems there are thign swhich are out of your control, it is up to you how want this wedding to be remembered.

wait... a lil confused... what do you mean by Silence... do you mean saying it to yourself inside, cuz technically even that isn't silence, right? Our thoughts are busy, tik kay nei bainday... so, when is there EVER silence? we can say the holiest of people have that pure silence, so then that would suggest no ardaas is pure unless you're "paunchiya hoya"... but then how do you reach this stage? you can't do it yourself, you need God's help.... which would require a request... which comes back to ardaas... so then... can the average Joe ever reach that inner peace and silence that allows such a "true" prayer to be made? Saying it inside is a step closer to silence and yes you are right even then you are using words. Notice i did say that one may use words or one can begin with words. But words themselves are limited in fully expressing extreme emotions. Now don't take this as the only way to pray, i am not saying Prayer in words carry no significance....nor am I trying to make this a black and white thing......your expression of whatever you wish to express whether it be through Words or Silence is a form of Prayer given that your mind comes along with the prayer. [disclaimer] Just to clarify a little bit, nor am I belitteling or trying to sway anyone away from the Maryada of Ardaas. Certianly it is an expression of great significance. [/disclaimer] But are words the only way to express how one feels or needs to the Divine Mother who herself is Antarjami? If she is Anterjami does she not know what I need and what I don't need? what words will you use to express you Love, Gratitude, Vismaad? To be in a state of utter Gratitude, which is one of the expression of a prayer, what words will you use to express this Gratitude if not silence? Surely one may say a thousand words upon words upon words but in the end one will ultimatly will have said nothing at all in comparison to the amount of gifts she has bestowed which brought upon this expression of Gratitude, this prayer. But I too would be wrong to say that those words used to express Gratitude would carry no weight. They most certainly are relevent but an expression of helplessness is there in expressing what cannot be expressed fully through the mind/words. Why can't it be reached my beautiful veer ji, surely it is not inconcievable, nor is it only for 'Paunchiay hoya' individuals? I don't think i need to express the obviuos here my veer as you are more learned than I am...but She listens to you Just as attentively as she listens to a Saint. Next time you pray, begin by expressing Gratitude and when this feeling of Gratitude overwhelms you then tell me what words you used to express that Graitude? If all you were left with was Shukar Hai, Shukar Hai, Waheguru, Waheguru, Dhan Guru Nanak, Dhan Guru Nanak, then such words are but an expression of your unexpressable Gratitude. Every 'Shukar Hai' would bring upon a zolt of ananda...then slowly even these words will become silent...because the mind would become silent. Notice i did not relate Prayer with Complaints or using prayer to complain to God, using such intentions for prayer it is obviuos words will be used. I have been taught that the true purpose of Prayer was to express Gratitude for what he has given. It is also true that I have made my share of complaints, but in the end i have always been left with silence (lack of words).

True prayer is expressed in Silence, but one may certainly begin with words to reach that state. When you have nothing left to say, when you prayer alone is expressing Gratitude, when words no longer are necessary rather your Silence begins to speak in a manner in which words fail to express. Such is the zenith of Prayer.

You stated that i was corrupted yet you wish to be Jeevan Mukat? I stated nothing different, but i think You have misundertood on what i was trying to say, let me elaborate. You state you wish to know how to be Jeevan Mukat. No where did i state that when you choose to be reborn you 'wouldn't' jeevan mukat. You state that it is hard enough to live in this world...to that I say then you/we have no idea how to truely live. We think to live in his hardship to escape yet when the realization has happend to those with that exact thought, they entered again in this world with the Knowledge of how to truely live in this Beautyful world. How to truely enjoy Life. It is not about Mukhti by dissappearing into the abyss, rather it is mukti while Alive as you stated. Jivan Mukat!!!. I further express that when you have learned the 'right' way of living (in which i am implying that one has realized the Truth in how to live ie: attained mukhti) you would want to live and enjoy this world again and again. It is only when you truely understand the rules of the game that you begin to enjoy it. Before then it is noting but hardship. Why wouldn't one want to enjoy the creation of God, the Leela of the Divine as an observer? Why not? Why do we run away from the World?

When one truely learns how to live in this world the right way. One doesn't always seek Moksha, rather they seek to be born again and again to enjoy the creator's creation.

what you mean what can she do? Why wouldn't it be possible? Your wordly duties should be performed to their full as well as your spiritual life should be lived to its full. You are asked to live in this world, so live it. You may have to get dirty on the outside, but never let it penetrate your inner being. Im sure the issue of serving alcohol and meat in flights is going to come up sooner or later. If she is feeling uncomfortable then it is her choice and she could find another job that can fit her requirements. If she takes the serving as a part of her Grishti jeevan and nothing more then more power to her. Blessed are those who live in the world/mud yet do not drown in it. She needs to look within her to find this strength to see if she can do her job with its negative influences while still being in touch with her beloved. but such are my thought...i am no expert in this specific matter. Im sure other can give you a more formal answer on the requirements of a Amritdhari Sikh.

Take responsibility for your actions and then take responsibility in changing your habitual nature. The Mind is what it is....there must come a time when one has to put his/her foot down and say enough and ask oneself what exactly is it that I am seeking. The truth is the Mind does not know what it is seeking but it is seeking something. So it tries to find it in Sex. If it had found it then once was enough and the desire would've been fullfilled. But the desire wasn't and never could be fullfilled so there is a pull to do it again and again. Obviously it will never be fullfilling. So ask yourself, ask your mind what exactly are you seeking? The mere fact that you are still repenting shows that his Grace is still falling upon you. What you are feeling is necessary for you to realize your mistake and believe me when i say this that you are not the only one that has gone through this state. Perhaps not in the same context as you, but almost everyone have used their praying for forgiveness coupons more times then they should have. If you pray for strength, then without a doubt this strength will arrive. If there is a next time, before you make any decision you will always be presented a choice to either go ahead and fullfil the desire of the mind or to turn away and remember the reprecusions of these actions. The momentary pleasures in life are abundent, the mind chases after them as if the next pleasure will fullfil its need forever and that is the only thing it needs. But time and time again the mind falls back to where it started from, so it tries and falls and it tries again. The mind is still seeking Bliss, but looking and finding it in all the wrong places. You must understand your own sexuality, understand the purpose of Sex, the root cause of this Desire to be fullfilled. Delve into your own mind, disect youw own mind questions and demand an answer. Be introspective towards you own mind and NEVER give up on Prayer.

Come, Come again ! Whatever you are... Whether you are infidel, idolater or fireworshipper. Whether you have broken your vows of repentance a hundred times This is not the gate of despair, This is the gate of hope. Come, come again... Mevlana Jelaluddin RUMI

I always go with an open mind and i've read the Bible many times, i've not as of yet been into a Synagogue. But i've not experienced any shanti as one does at the Gurdwara. Is it because we go there with a preconcieved idea or a sense of expectations of how it should be rather then being open and available to whatever is there OR do we developed some specific reception that blocks out other types vibrations instead we recieves only those with a specific signature? So for you, your personal experience does not fit into the first portion, but what are your thoughts on the second? Do you think that we sub-consciously are responbile for being open to a specific type of vibration and not others. Certainly I am not suggesting a comparison of any sorts, but because my experience has brought me the exact opposite results to yours while being in a Church. Is the source of the words Amen, Om, Oankar different not in the sense of language, but the vibrations that is caused by them?

This guy ain't got tatti on David Blaine.

Who is this another god?? LOL Think he wrote that without thinking :TH: lol you guys are crazy... YOU EVER HEARD OF PHILOSOPHICAL WRITTING? Not that some religions think that a stone is a type of god, we as sikhs respect nor slander religions for doing this. We have our way... don't have to tell what thsoe are. Sheesh... you guys ever just chill and not take everythning on a literal sense... there is no other "god" except waheguru... god... jehovah... bhrahma... (we just don't view god as that in those properties necesarily) But i'm sure your typing a replying saying that it's not true... i need to chill too but that isn't waht you wrote in your original response. Although im sure you knew what you were talking about, i didn't want to assume anything. I pointed it out because pehraps you had some insight that was relevent to the discussion....a different perspective when you said, 'another god'. neways thanks for the clarification.

I think so too. Has anyone who has been to a Mandir, church, Mosque etc. ever felt the same vibrations that are present in the Gurudwara?

Who is this another god??

God does not bestow curses and i think you already know why you were given this Gift. Trust your Intuition.

wow, now that is something...so why do you think the fear is there? Is it simply for the fact that you think you are next to die? I wouldn't try to take too much out of it as you are with the thought that you are next, I don't think it works like that. I think you just opened yourself to their world, perhaps accidently or through Grace. Its does not necessarily mean that they have entered your world. You can certainly quesiton how and why, but why not make the best of whatever you are given for wahtever purpose. Pray for Guidence is about the best the thing you can do. Next time when this happens control yourself, you must get over the initial shock of seeing the dead. I don't think what you are seeing is something to be scared of. After all you are in a place of the Guru, not a broken down shack in the middle of nowhere. Take confidence in this that you are in a Gurudwara and try to just observe what is happening. I guess it is easy for me to sitting behind my computer, but much more difficult for you to go through. What was the longest time you were able to see them? Did they talk to you? do you only see your family and friend and no one else?

what is your budget?

ya can't be worse then me...i don't think its possible...