Pheena

Thanks for the link veer, they should be an interesting read.

now you are just turning the other way of denial when it is obvious to any seeker that the Guru is speaking of Trimurit and which has NOTHING to do with bipran ki reet, instead a creation of the Divine. Simple Truth is veer you cannot accept this as a Truth because of your hindu-phobia. You can take this as something constructive or you can be offended by it, it is your choice. Sadly i feel you will choose the latter and carry on with your blindness that this has to do with hinduism (bipran ki reet). Truth of Trimurti is Simply Truth which is neither Sikhi or Hindu. But have it your way, your denial of their existance does not mean the 3 Energies do not exist. The Guru is a witness and validates their existance if you chose to ignore this aspect of your Guru then it is your choice. I will say no more. God bless veer.

Something else to consider from another forum:

True veer ji But according to the quote the respond by that person to Osho was that he was entering the house of God not the Guru. I belive that to be the reason why he responded in such a manner. If that person had been more clear that it is a sign of Respect as ordained by our Gurus then i do not think we'd be discussin it today. Your assumption is correct veer, but im not Osho :lol: That is definelty one way of looking at the dialog, but also be aware of the arrogance of the man as noted by osho. Why couldn't he do it at 4am? It is still Amritvela right? It was not as he was trying to stop him, but it seems osho saw his arrogance and pride that he awakens at 2am to do padth. Which is apparent in his shocking response when osho said he should awaken at 4 instead of 2. His pride was hurt, he was expecting a 'shabashay' but instead he was told otherwise. Could he not be so considerate of his family who are obviously not as religious and dedicated as he is. Trying to inforce religion by waking at 2am and reciting loudly will surely not get them to be dharmic instead it will push them away as it pushed away his wife. Now when i went to india, there is a Gurudwara right next to our house, everyday the Granthi would turn on the loudspeaker at 4:30am and read the hukamnama, personally it was heaven for me, as what more could i ask for than to hear the words of the Guru to awaken me. Then there were those who complained that what is the need and there are 2 Gurudwara within a radius of 300 yards and there is a competition amongst them of who will be louder and first to begin the path. Now before you think i am defending Osho, I too disagree with much of what he says because it is unconventional and seems irresponsible coming from a man who has realized God. But then again he never claimed to be someone who nurtures the feeling of others. He said what he wanted to say. If you read his earlier work there was much more depth and sacredness in his words, his later work became more controversial. Im not trying to influence other to like him, nor dis-like him, I just think people should just decide for themselves. This is from his own words:

I just want to post the few related things about Sikhi he talks about in light, so people can read and conclude on what they read themselves rather than blindly going about him.

EDIT: There is no refrence to the writer of stories, it is a continuation. You cannot just pick up in the middle and point it in a different direction. The last line is a continuation from the first 4 as it speaks in refrerence to it. The 3 chelays are still the topic Guru ji is speaking of who cannot see him. Beloved veer, You can translate the the word Bhouta either way. The complexities of translating Punjabi/gurmukhi words that have no similar words in english is difficult and can lead to such differences. Translating the whole sentece, Bohuta is simply emphasising the words Vidaan. According to Sikhitothemax the word Vidaan means wonderful. ouhu vaekhai ounaa nadhar n aavai bahuthaa eaehu viddaan || He watches over all, but none see Him. How wonderful this is! I wouold love to see the translation of the 4 lines in refrence from Maha Kosh. The truth as you interpret is misplaced. What facts veer? How can you arrive on facts when i pointed out a set of different view that are opposite of yours. Your facts as you call them are then biased. You are simply concluding on what you believe while ignoring what the other has to say. You simply stated that the creation of God who he directs is not worthy of greatness. I never said they are great on their own, rather it is his greatness that makes them to be great. You cannot say the World is not Great, but God is. If God is Great then Great is his creation also. From Greatness only Greatness can be born. After reading this pouri how can you even say that there is no Brahma, Vishnu, Shiv??? Are we reading the same thing? They are simply 3 Energies commanded by the lord to do his work. To say they don't exist is just absurd as they can be accounted for in everyday life. It seems obvious you do not understand them in this context, instead you seem to reduce them into fictional or mythological characters. I am not exactly sure how you came to this conclusion, is it perhaps that they are also mentioned in the Hindu Philosophy? Either way veer i hope you do not take offense to my words. I simply see the world a bit differently than you.

The Guru is written from the first person point of view. It applies to the reader and the reader alone, if there is a love in the Guru then it is for you, not the neighbour, if there are harsh words in the Guru then they are for you, no one else. People generally tend to think the Guru speaks to the Hindus and the Muslims, but not the Sikhs. Such thoughts will keep you away from the real message, which is for you not the other. Similarily when the Katha of Baba nanak going to read the koran with a muslim, but didn't because the muslim himself wasn't reading the koran instead his mind was else where in his horses or whatevr. Such katha is generally taken towards trying to say the 'muslim' was inept in doing prayer with Baba Nanak, but hardly ever is the question raised towards the 'Sikhs'. So I ask thsoe Sikhs, if Baba Nanak came today to would he join you in your padth/Simran/Jap?

Incorrect interpetation of the second line. Guru ji is not talking about the Scriptures Writers. Instead the Trayta, Brahma Vishnu and Mahesh do not see God, even tho they are created by the lord himself and he seess them but they cannot see him and Guru ji states that it is a Vidaan that they cannot look back and see the creator. Just as electrcity produced by a source lights a bulb, the souce knows that the bulb is lit, but the bulb itself cannot claim to know the source. It is simply a medium which is alive by the sole source. Similariy, the Creative, Sustaining and the Destructive energy exists because of the source and the Source created it and sees it, but that energy cannot see the source. 137025[/snapback] Where does the word Bohata go then? How about Eho? I agree that it can that oh could mean the trinity. No big deal. Point is the same that there is nothing great about Brahma Vishnu Shiv. 137050[/snapback] The word Bohuta(great) is simply used to express and amplify the word Vidaan, Eho points back to the statement made earlier that "Ohna Nadar na avay" no the point is not the same, you are relating the Tin chelay to Hindu'ism' and when in subject they are not given great status you readily jump on it and say that Guru sahib is belittling Hindus/scriptures and the giaan they express. Which is apparant in your misinterpetation of the lines. There is a line in the middle of those 2 lines which disagrees with your statement that there is nothing great about Brahma Vishnu Shiv. aykaa maa-ee jugat vi-aa-ee tin chaylay parvaan. ik sansaaree ik bhandaaree ik laa-ay deebaan. jiv tis bhaavai tivai chalaavai jiv hovai furmaan. oh vaykhai onaa nadar na aavai bahutaa ayhu vidaan. God himself directs them to where he pleases...do you think that initself is not great? He ordains them and that is Greatness, not because they are, rather because the Lord Brahma controls them and that makes them Great. Their Greatness lies because they are the creation of the LORD himself. The power of the Tin Chelay can be seen all around you and that is Great, in your body cells are born, sustained and destroyed every second and that is not great? You cannot say God is Great but his Creation is not. The world is created, sustained and destoryed, that is Greatness my beloved veer, it is greatness of the Lord and his Power.

Incorrect interpetation of the second line. Guru ji is not talking about the Scriptures Writers. Instead the Trayta, Brahma Vishnu and Mahesh do not see God, even tho they are created by the lord himself and he seess them but they cannot see him and Guru ji states that it is a Vidaan that they cannot look back and see the creator. Just as electrcity produced by a source lights a bulb, the souce knows that the bulb is lit, but the bulb itself cannot claim to know the source. It is simply a medium which is alive by the sole source. Similariy, the Creative, Sustaining and the Destructive energy exists because of the source and the Source created it and sees it, but that energy cannot see the source.

Sorry for the late reply veer, here is the file, It is the Faridakot Teeka http://www.khalis.net/SikhAwareness/Text/F...nth%20Sahib.pdf An easy way to search thru the text is to copy the Gurmukhi text that you are searching for into Microsoft Word and then convert the text to an english font. Copy those english words and paste them into the search field of the pdf.

you have to understand the context from which the second verse is given. The Guru is not doing ninda of the Vedas, but instead critisizing the ritualistic reading of the scripture and yet still being blind to the message. The last few words, 'app na pachanay' he reads but yet does not understand himself (his true self). Don't the Sikhs Read the Guru Granth Sahib and yet do you also not see them fighting??

also look into the new HD Camcorders, if you are going to buy one to last a while, might as well buy one with new technology.

Hp also offer some really good laptops. What are the specific tasks you need the laptop for?

thank you tahnk you thank you :lol:

is just wordless. Where can i get the full picutre??????????????????????????????

I think Prem said it best. also here is something that relates to his post:

thank you much for the clarification sarbloh geeza.

So this is different from Raagmala? What is the meaning fo the word Ratan?

refrence???

i doubt you'll find a major contribution towards the environment. Ludhiana is a in Punjab and it is one of themost diritiest (Air Pollustion wise) cities in the state. I suggest you change the subject Sikhs and Equality. Im sure you'll find many many refrences during the Gurus time for the efforts to persue equality. You can even mention the need for India to acknowledge the equal right to establish Sikhism a seperate religion.

Why do you carry such hatred in your heart? Will it do you any good to express youself in such a manner? Who are you trying to impress...Your Guru that you have so much hatred towards someone in your heart. It is not a matter of if this hatred is justified. Hatred is NEVER justified. Do you think the Gurus Hated the Moguls or Aurangzeb? Was Hatred in their heart towards the one who killed thir Singhs, their Sons?? Do you think they faught with Hatred? Is forgiveness not your forefront? Is Forgiveness and compassion and Prayer not your Priority towards those who have done wrong to you? Instead of praying for her, that she may realize her wrong doing, instead of expressing compassion that God may bestow his mercy even upon those who were blinded by their ignorance, you express Hatred. Blinded by your own dust I am curious if you even realize what you are saying, 130081[/snapback] i hate her guts thats my opinion i asj u 2 respect that 130082[/snapback] jb DwrY koaU bYrI mIqu ] As long as he considers one an enemy, and another a friend, qb lgu inhclu nwhI cIqu ] his mind shall not come to rest vvw vYru n krIAY kwhU ] WAWWA: Do not harbor hatred against anyone. Gt Gt AMqir bRhm smwhU ] In each and every heart, God is contained. vwsudyv jl Ql mih rivAw ] The All-pervading Lord is permeating and pervading the oceans and the land. gur pRswid ivrlY hI givAw ] How rare are those who, by Guru`s Grace, sing of Him. vYr ivroD imty iqh mn qy ] Hatred and alienation depart from those hir kIrqnu gurmuiK jo sunqy ] who, as Gurmukh, listen to the Kirtan of the Lord`s Praises. The word anyone does not have exclusions. I need not say anymore.

beloved veer, a hand must be put forth regardless if one is even able to see the hand or not. If I am consumed by Kaam, Hatred, Ego..etc... i would want someone to point it out, i would want someone to tell me what i am doing wrong or how i am going astray with the best way they can put it. My Ego might not let me accept what they have to say, but every effort made is a strike upon the ego and every strike weakens it. When that realizaion happens or the ego cracks it is not so because the last blow that broke it rather with the combining efforts of every strike before that last one.

Why do you carry such hatred in your heart? Will it do you any good to express youself in such a manner? Who are you trying to impress...Your Guru that you have so much hatred towards someone in your heart. It is not a matter of if this hatred is justified. Hatred is NEVER justified. Do you think the Gurus Hated the Moguls or Aurangzeb? Was Hatred in their heart towards the one who killed thir Singhs, their Sons?? Do you think they faught with Hatred? Is forgiveness not your forefront? Is Forgiveness and compassion and Prayer not your Priority towards those who have done wrong to you? Instead of praying for her, that she may realize her wrong doing, instead of expressing compassion that God may bestow his mercy even upon those who were blinded by their ignorance, you express Hatred. Blinded by your own dust I am curious if you even realize what you are saying,

Yes bro, Nowadays I rarely do any breathing exercises or techniques, I use to do it before my nitnem in the morning for about 15 minutes, and slowly went to about 30, it was REALLY GOOD in controlling one's thoughts and even helping with anxiety. One of the posts on here prompted me to learn more about breathing techniques, there's a person in India does katha on it, the techniques are related more to Buddhism and the technique is called 'Vipaasna', there are other methods as well, but that one I found to be very useful. I'm sure if you do a search on it, or even on SikhSangat, you'll find alot of info. 130027[/snapback] I'll post th elink tomorrow with the Vipaasna Audios. just to add to what Khalsa said, if you become aware of your breathing you will notice that the rythem of the breathing changes accordingly to your thoughts. If Angyr, your breathing will become faster. Just as going to sleep the breathing becomes slower and deeper. Similary according to vipasana, your whole focus is to observe the breathing. Think of breathing as a bridge between your thoughts and the body. If you can control the bridge you can control both the mind and the body.

try this...it has been used by buddhist Monks perhaps it will help you out. so next time you walk keep you gaze downwards, do not look up. while looking down, start your jap/simran. Do not look so far down that you cannot see what is in front of you and you trip and fall. But keep you head down a bit where you eyes do not wander around. Don't forget to do your simran/jap. Try it and see if it works for you. btw i should mention that this is obviously not a permanent solution rather it will give your mind some space and time to strengthen itself to your desire. Also UntitledSingh has provided very good advice, take the time to contemplate on the desire, try to understand its source.