mandeep99

whose kala afghana

Namastang this was all done by the Indian Govt to give sikhs a bad name!! Why was all this information "Wire taps" evidence they had on Talvinder Singh Parmer and Inderjit Singh Reyat deleted??? Why was it when they followed Mr X, Reyat and Parmer into the woods and they tested explosions, why wernt they arrested?? Why was spying (intelligence) on Parmer stopped weeks before the bomb?? If Canadian intelligence knew sikhs were going to bomb the flight then why: On that particular day, the x ray machines stop working, the stiffer dog did'nt function properly and the place was delayed for 1 hour??? Doesnt it ring a bell in your head. Also the "Singh" who brought the tickets for that particular flight, they could easily trace him by cctv coberage, im sure cctv was around in 1985. Then another thing is, sikhs are planning to bomb a flight, a person with the surname singh signs in luggage, but then doesnt board the flight. Would'nt that just ring bells in the Airport managements mind and know from all these facts that their could be a bomb on the plane. No offence but its like a bolywood film, its not fair that 100's of people lost their lives because a govt wants to give sikhs a bad name!! The GOI agents planted lots of bomb material in Reyats garden, Reyat maybe made the timer, but not the actual bomb. The reason why Reyat pleaded guilyt was because he would get a additional 5 years, instead of life imprisonment. Namastang and pease maker, sikhs were not behind the bombing, its all done by the GOI to give sikhs a bad name. Look at all them facts listed above and you can see for yourself. Why delete information on a prime suspect, who was involved in a terrible act of bombing a plane. I love Inderjeet Singh Reyat, he is a top guy and I respect him to the max!! I am going to support him all the way, unfortunately he has to stay in jail until his perjuty case in January. However the Govt is soo corrupt, I dont think he will ever come out of jail and his life has been ruined. Only guru jee can bless him with strong faith, naam, gurbani, gursikhi jeevan and accepting guru jee's will!! Peacemaker and Namastang dont talk bad of great gursikhs like Inderjeet Singh Reyat and Talvinder Singh Parmer!! Look at their virtues!! air india inquiry revealed the rivalary between csis and rcmp is the cause of erased tapes but also they did want to hide india's involvement in air india bombing cause one thing that came up was that a former csis head of terrorism said before the air india bombing that he believed that india had agents working as double agents in khalistani organisations in canada, mr x is sant jarnail bhindranwale nephew basicully all these guys got used by india's govt babbar khalsa did kill inocent making them like al quida but babbar khalsa got used killing inocent AIR INDIA INQUIRY WILL LOOK INTO TEHELKA REPORT ON TALWINDER SINGH PARMAR The Tehelka (www.tehelka.com) report on a former Punjab police officer claiming that he arrested and interrogated prime Air India bombing suspect Talwinder Singh Parmar before he was ordered killed by senior police officials confirms what The VOICE has been saying for years: (1) that Indian police extracted all the information they required from Parmar before killing him (and so they really didn't care what Canada did about the other alleged plotters); and (2) that convicted bomb maker Inderjit Singh Reyat knows who the mysterious Third Man - who accompanied Parmar to his house, stayed with him and later took the bombs from him - is. On the other hand, it is very difficult, indeed, impossible to determine what the roles of various alleged plotters were or even the true extent of their involvement because there are so many claims and counter-claims by people who say they know this or that for sure. Then there are those who want all this confusion to protect those who were really involved in the plot. Also, it is impossible to say to what extent the Indian intelligence services and the Canadian Security Intelligence Service were involved in the plot or how much they really knew or know. Did they have a mole or moles? Who was the mole (or moles)? Anyway, the head of the Air India inquiry, former Supreme Court justice John Major told the media that he will look into this report when the hearings resume. The Globe and Mail's Robert Matas was the first to report about the Tehelka report on Monday. The Tehelka report said that retired Punjab Police Deputy Superintendent of Police (DSP) Harmail Singh Chandi, who reportedly arrested Parmar in the Jammu region of the northern Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir in September, 1992, did not destroy Parmar's confession record although he was instructed to do that. In the confession, Parmar named Lakhbir Singh Brar "Rode", nephew of Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale and head of the banned International Sikh Youth Federation, as the mastermind of the bombing. Rode, who is now believed to be in Lahore, Pakistan. Tehelka reported that Chandi produced all the evidence - including audio-tapes - before the RCMP and the John Major inquiry commission. So apparently he was the mysterious witness who suddenly backed out from giving evidence at the Major inquiry. However, when you go through Parmar's confession there are some points that you need to bear in mind. Both as the son of a former Indian Police Service officer and a crime reporter with The Times of India in New Delhi, I can tell you that Indian police extract confessions by third-degree methods that are nothing but horrible torture. That's a well-known fact and that is the reason why police there often don't report an arrest (by law they must bring the arrested person before a judge within 24 hours) because they first torture the person and then wait for the marks of torture and other related physical conditions to heal. Then they register the arrest officially and bring the person before a judge. Judges, too, have been known to turn a blind eye to visible marks of torture, especially in smaller towns. The victim, too, is often too scared to talk of the torture because he fears he will be tortured again! So Parmar's confession could have been taped only after he agreed to say certain things that the cops wanted him to say. Also, he might have deliberately misled the cops to buy time, naively thinking that being a Canadian citizen he would not be killed. According to the Tehlka report by Vikram Jit Singh, Parmar's confession states: "Around May 1985, a functionary of the International Sikh Youth Federation came to me and introduced himself as Lakhbir Singh and asked me for help in conducting some violent activities to express the resentment of the Sikhs. I told him to come after a few days so that I could arrange for dynamite and battery etc. He told me that he would first like to see a trial of the blast ... After about four days, Lakhbir Singh and another youth, Inderjit Singh Reyat, both came to me. We went into the jungle (of British Columbia). There we joined a dynamite stick with a battery and triggered off a blast. Lakhbir and Inderjit, even at that time, had in their minds a plan to blast an aeroplane. I was not too keen on this plan but agreed to arrange for the dynamite sticks. Inderjit wanted to use for this purpose a transistor fitted with a battery...That very day, they took dynamite sticks from me and left. "Then Lakhbir Singh, Inderjit Singh and their accomplice, Manjit Singh, made a plan to plant bombs in an Air India (AI) plane leaving from Toronto via London for Delhi and another flight that was to leave Tokyo for Bangkok. Lakhbir Singh got the seat booking done from Vancouver to Tokyo and then onwards to Bangkok, while Manjit Singh got it done from Vancouver to Toronto and then from Toronto to Delhi. Inderjit prepared the bags for the flights, which were loaded with dynamite bombs fitted with a battery and transistor. They decided that the suitcases will be booked but they themselves will not travel by the same flights although they will take the boarding passes. After preparing these bombs, the plan was ready for execution by June 21 or 22, 1985. However, the bomb to be kept in the flight from Tokyo to Delhi via Bangkok exploded at the Narita airport on the conveyor belt. The second suitcase that was loaded on the Toronto-Delhi air flight exploded in the air." According to the Tehelka report, Punjab Human Rights Organization (PHRO) principal investigator Sarabjit Singh said the PHRO's probe has shown that Parmar was killed to hide the name of Lakhbir, who was an Indian agent. He claimed that a plot was hatched to discredit the Sikh movement and that the Punjab Police got orders to eliminate Parmar because he knew too much about the main perpetrators. Tehelka pointed out that although Lakhbir is accused in many acts of terrorism, he is wanted by the Indian government in only a minor case registered in Moga, Punjab. The Globe and Mail's Robert Matas reported: "Lakhbir Singh Brar came to Canada in April, 1985, as a refugee. He was identified as a national security risk by Canada's security service and deported in the early 1990s." Interestingly, Tehelka reported that when the police officer - Satish K. Kumar, who was a Senior Superintendent of Police at the time and is now an Inspector General of Police - who reportedly killed Parmar in an encounter, was asked about the charge that Parmar was murdered by the police, he shot back: "It was a clean encounter. The RCMP is bringing this up because they botched their investigations and failed to get convictions." Interesting masala, eh! http://www.voiceonline.com/voice/070804/headline2.php

Peacemaker I sometimes read ur post and they are soo annoying!! You don't know nothing about Reyat, and his role in this case. As far as I know he was in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong people. He was a innocent man, and he even does alot of gurbani paath. Do your research, then make a judgement. Once upon a time, even Nelson Mandella was called a terrorist, and even people call the babbars and sant jee terrorist. reyet was caught working with talwinder parmar one of the founders of babbar khalsa who got used by india's govt to do the air india bombing, later parmar crying in custody of punjab police and allowing himself to get caught confessed all these guys role to air india but it is believed punjab police killed him in custody cause he mentioned sant jarnail bhindranwale nephews name in the air india bombing which many ppl believe was the person who worked as a double agent in air india bombing, plus many ppl know that talwinder parmar had friends in punjab police and actually knew some who killed sikh youth hoping it would light a hotter fire in sikhs for khalistan. Its his friends in punjab police that lured talwinder parmar in.

Two cinima bomb blasts in ludiana the ppl attacked were muslim migrant worker so why the prime minister of india blaming sikh groups? Mod Note: Post Edited

NRI Sikhs most successful religious group in UK London, October 12, 2004 Vijay Dutt Hindustan Times The Sikhs in Britain are now enjoying most rewards of their work ethic compared to any other religious group. Eight out of 10 Sikhs are likely to own a house, considered the basic symbol of prosperity. Their success is a tribute to the hard work of the first generation and then the ever-growing economic success and educational achievement of subsequent generations. The figure of 82 per cent home ownership among Sikhs compares to 70 per cent (seven out of 10) homeowners among the Christian majority. Sikhs are also, it has been found, as likely as Christians to hold a university degree. A quarter of Hindus have a degree, while 16 per cent of Christians and Sikhs are educated to that level. The first ever breakdown of religious groups by the Government shows that Britain has proved most receptive to ambitions of migrants. Hindus and Jews too are ahead of Christians in terms of home ownership. While 74 per cent Hindus own homes, 77 per cent of Jews are home owners, second only to Sikhs who are at top of the table with 82 per cent having their own homes. Hindu men are second only to Jews among major religious groups as likely to hold managerial posts or be top professionals. Some 45 per cent of management roles, and one in 20 Hindu men is a doctor, 10 times the percentage of the Christian majority. The figures also show high levels of deprivation among Muslim communities. This has raised concern that some are increasingly becoming economically and culturally isolated. Almost a third of Muslims have no qualifications, the highest proportion of any other religious groups. Worse 14 per cent are unemployed and health problems are also greater. Two-thirds of Muslim women have no jobs, compared to more than a third in any other religious group. These figures compiled by the Office of National Statistics from the 2001 Census were published on Monday in a document called Focus on Religion. Over 41 million said they were Christians. Muslims were the next largest group with a population of 1.6 million, followed by Hindus (558,000), Sikhs (336,000), Jews (267,000) and Buddhists, numbering 150,000. Muslims have the largest households, 3.6 persons in each home on an average, and are also the most likely to suffer over-crowding. Table at a glance: Homeowners (housing by religion) in UK : Sikhs 82% Jews 77% Hindus 74% Christians 70% Religion not stated 63% No religion 62% Other religions 58% Buddhists 54% Muslims 52% All people 68%

i love jakara and i know some ppl in here might start crying cause their non gursikhs that attend jakara's camps to learn about sikhi. jakara camp for girls http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=EhR6bPZSlvY and everyone http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=IFORpo4vAqU&...feature=related

what type of programs or camps can be set up to help sikh youth feel part of the sikh community and working with the sikh community.

we need to have someone who can empower ppl to rise and fight the corruption, in country's in the west the ppl control the govt and in places like india the govt controls the people, the people in punjab need to be empowered for change.

i believe cricket is one of the most unathletic sports in the world, personally i would love it if sikhs turned away from cricket in punjab and turned to real sports that will challenge them physically like soccer rugby and keep playing kabaddi.

what purpose have you given yourself, or believe you have on earth, example could be is bring 100 000 ppl out of poverty along with build a close relationship with god. humans are driven by emotion and ppl giving themselves a purpose fullfills so many emotional needs when people start working towards that purpose, that hunger they have to accomplish something, it could be becoming a world champion in kick boxing and buidling a close relationship with god, or through god bring thousands out of drug addictions and poverty.

jattworld

[timesofindia.indiatimes.com] MAHAL (AMRITSAR DISTRICT): Bordering a grey putrid open drain filled with untreated industrial waste, Mahal looks like any other Punjab village — yellow mustard fields, eagle-shaped water storage tanks and homes displaying photographs of young men who have migrated abroad. But appearances can be deceptive. The village, about 4 km from Amritsar town, isn't really in the pink of health. In the government elementary school, an unusually high number of children complain of rashes and boils, housewives talk about a sharp rise in the number of miscarriages, and old men insist their hands and fingers are turning numb. A major two-year study by PGIMER, Chandigarh, to probe the effects of industrial waste and pesticides on human health in 25 Punjab villages located near five open drains has come up with some startling findings. The study found varying degrees of DNA mutation in 65% of the blood samples taken. It also detected genetic damage in some cases. That's not all. The drinking water in these villages has turned toxic due to a high concentration of heavy metals such as mercury, copper, cadmium, chromium and lead. In Mahal, these chemicals have seeped into the village's groundwater from the polluted drain water causing these unlikely ailments. No surprise, there's also evidence of these metals entering the food chain. According to the study, pesticides have also been detected in vegetables, even in human milk and blood samples. For the residents of Mahal, the numbness, the miscarriages and the rashes are the price of living in a toxic hotspot. There could be worse in store. The Principal investigator, Dr J S Thakur, outlines the possible scenario caused by genotoxicity, a condition in which lethal chemicals gather in the body leading to DNA damage. In future, more children will be born with congenital malformations — cleft lip, half or no skull, growth retardation. Pregnant women will have more sudden, "spontaneous" abortions. Instances of bone deformities, along with gastrointestinal, skin, dental and eye problems will rise. And so will cases of cancer. "There is clear evidence that irrigation of fields with highly contaminated drain water and exposure to pesticides is leading to neuro, reproductive and genotoxicity. The genetic damage may not be visible right now. But it will manifest itself in future," says Dr Thakur. It wasn't always like this. Oldtimers in Mahal recall that before Partition, the drain was a cheery monsoon rivulet full of birds and fishes, where village boys often went for a swim. That's long changed. A recent study by the zoology department of Amritsar's Guru Nanak Dev University showed that the drain is now completely devoid of aquatic life. The Tung Dhab drain, a subsidiary of Huddiara nala, runs parallel to Mahal's agricultural fields. Dr Thakur points out that the drinking water in these areas has turned highly toxic. People in parts of rural West Bengal have been drinking arsenic-laced ground water for decades and suffering the consequences. Arsenic can cause cancer. But the ground water in these parts of rural Punjab has many more deadly chemicals. Residents point out that water drawn from handpumps turns yellow in no time.

Falling prey to the English version of history is very common among those who are hell bent on discrediting Sikhs from freeing India. England was bombed but it received much support from its allies. British got all the wealth from India. It was a great plan of the British to misguide the world by lying that they were voluntarily leaving whereas it is a known fact in the history of the world that no country gained freedom by having the ruler leave the throne voluntarily. Would the British have received any respect from the world had the entire world known the fact that only tiny fraction of Indian population was opposing the British rule and winning? Yes winning because Gurdwara Sudhar Lehar was a complete success. Anand Karaj Act, removal of the statues from Darbar Sahib, legalization of Kirpan and wearing black turban and an increasing number of Sikhs (Amritdharis) opposing the British rule are all examples of how Sikhs were becoming successful in the freedom movement. Thousands of Hindus were behind Gandhi and opposing the British rule in other parts of India. Sikhs started the movement right after Punjab was annexed. Study Sikh history starting 1849 with Bhai Maharaj Singh. This once again is false. Majority of India? Stronghold of the Mughal empire was in the North. Marathas couldn't raise their army after Panipat battle as opposed to the Sikhs who lost 50% of their population in one day in 1762 yet just within three year not only defeated Abdali twice but became the only ruling power in Punjab. Marathas couldn't even defeat Tipu Sultan. It was the same Shivaji Maratha who changed his caste by paying huge sum of money and then oppressed and tortured its own people. Marathas left Punjab without ever coming face to face in the battlefield. Marathas left Delhi around 1781 after hearing that the Sikhs were coming. I have seen many Gurdwaras being run by monas and the committee members are the most corrupt people I have seen in my life yet I am not generalizing and judging the entire mona community. Judging the entire community based on few people's actions is nothing but foolishness. This is plain stupid. "Three Sikhs that weren't gursikhs"? Your incapability to understand Gurmat astounds me. Sikh and Gursikh is the same. Bhagat Singh grew hair and wished to take Amrit. He admitted that his contribution was nothing compared to Sikhs who had spent 10+ years in prison. Udham Singh and Bhagat Singh both were inspired by the Sikhs who planned to start a Ghadar in 1914 and shaheeds of 1919. Kartar Singh Sarabha had the company of many Sikhs who started Ghadar Party. I don't know much about his life but perhaps you could provide some evidence that he wasn't an Amritdhari. In either case, the inspiration and backbone of the freedom movement was Sikhs all along. Heck, even Gandhi looked up to Sikhs and copied the peaceful struggle methods. You talk about Maharaja Ranjit Singh like you know it all. It was Hari Singh Nalwa and Akali Phoola Singh who pushed back the Pathans. Ranjit Singh couldn't have been what he was without Rani Sada Kaur who was an Amritdhari gursikh. His misl was very strong and that was due to Amritdharis in the misl. His grandson and father were also Amritdharis in the misl. Ranjit Singh wasn't an immoral person when he was in the misl. It was only after he took over all the misls and even that was because other misls helped. His kingdom was protected by the Sikh armies. No doubt he was a good leader and had lot of love and passion for Sikhi (which many Sikhs need these days) but he couldn't have done anything without Gursikhs. He trusted monay dogras and we all know what that lead to. And your question about why did God send him is completely irrational and ludicrous. First of all, ask God why he sent him. Second, tell me why did God send hitler to kill 6 million jews and indira Gandhi to kill thousands of innocent Sikhs? No one is a Sikh by birth. One becomes a Sikh after taking Amrit and keeping rehat. So the speculation of God sending a "non-gursikhs" to Sikhs house is absurd. Hindus did much more than to us in 84 than what Muslims did back in 47. Muslims were not equipped with heavy artillery by the government. In fact, Gandhi and other Hindu leaders are largely responsible for this which is why Sikhs shouldn't support India. Sikhs have suffered much more in India. Don't throw excuses and study the history a little bit in its true version. "dalsingh" why do you always take the sources that portray Sikhs as drug addict looters to be accurate? What evidence you have that such sources have been verified to be correct? Why don't you study jeevan of Baba Deep Singh, Bhai Taru Singh and others like them? It seems to me that you like it when Gursikhs are insulted and portrayed as immoral people so that you can justify your apostasy from Sikhi. MODERATORS DELETE MY OTHER COMMENTS THAT I POSTED IN LAST 1 HOUR, BUT IF YOUR NOT GOING TO POST THESE COMMENTS JUST SHOWS THE HYPOCRACY AND INSECURITY OF THE MODERATORS OF THIS WEBSITE. Im ANGERED at so called gursikhs judging and trying to look down on others udham singh and kartar singh were non gursikhs, they had cut hair and udham singh in his life just stopped following religion but did believe in a god. Thats why he would change his name to show sikh musim hindu unity. bhagat singh's family friends and his fellow prisioners and prison guards claimed he was an athiest, so thats why ppl call him an athiest and ill provide the book in a few days were his own sister claimed he was an athiest and why he was an athiest. secondly unfortanatly that number that 93 of 121 men hanged for india's freedom movement is wrong cause theirs a hindu website that names 100 hindu freedom fighters that were hanged. Thats why im asking for the reference to that statistic and how they came up with those numbers unfortanatly i don't believe in conspiracy's and its a known fact reason british left india was they couldn't afford investing any money into stabalising india cause it got to instable, as well cause they had to rebuild their own country, and no its not a conspiracy for the british to cover up cause they felt humilated by sikh freedom fighters cause they confessed up that pathans were the reason they couldn't conquere afghanistan and that pathans rocked them. AS WELL SINCE THEIR OUR PPL WHO CLAIM ONLY SIKHS BROUGHT INDIA FREEDOM AND THAT ENGLAND IS TO HUMILATED TO ADMIT THIS HOW IN THE WORLD COULD ONLY 4000 PPL DIEING BRING INDIA FREEDOM. AS WELL WHY CAN HINDUS NAME DOZENS OF FREEDOM FIGHTERS YET SIKHS CAN ONLY NAME UDHAM SINGH KARTAR SINGH AND BHAGAT SINGH. as well maharaja ranjit singh started drinking at a young age so he could impress his fellow sikh soilders and generals cause back then the more you could drink the more respect you would win, this is a fact recorded by sikh and western historians, showing that many men that surrounded maharaja ranjit singh were non gursikhs. It was under maharaja ranjit singh's leadership that he pushed pathans out of punjab and put them on the run and under his leadership they invaded afghanistan. So once again for any so called gursikh who wants to judge non gursikh sikhs please tell me any gursikhs who hurt the british more then bhagat singh udham singh and kartar singh, and why guru ji would send maharaja ranjit singh a non gursikh to lead siksh into having their own empire.

Sikh contribution to Indian freedom movement Hanged: 93 out of 121 were Sikhs -->> 77%. Jallian Wala Bagh massacre: 799 out of 1399 were Sikhs -->> 62% Life imprisonment: 2147 out of 2646 were Sikhs -->> 81% Out of 42,000 recruits in the Indian National Army under the command of Subhash Chandra Bose, 28,000 soldiers contributing 67% of strength, were Sikhs. Book source : "History of Indian National Congress" Bhagat Singh's desire to take Amrit is evident from Jail Chithiyaan. If someone wants to dispute the words of Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Ji, then that is their choice. As for the article "Why I am an atheist", we already discussed the futility of that article on this forum on here: http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showtopic=31285&hl= . Pay special attention to the posts by Azaad and SikhChronicle.com. Want more? Here you go: http://forums.waheguroo.com/index.php?show...c=21687&hl= . Still not happy? Ok, how about http://www.tapoban.org/forum/read.php?1,253 . Now you show me proof that he did NOT want to take Amrit, and that he was hanged as a mona. Its easy to ask for proof, but a different story when the reverse happens. Its easy to say "Your sources are a bunch of individuals who post online". Fine, you find me an authentic source to prove what you are saying is true. Go right ahead! Such as? The shaheedi of Baba Deep Singh ji to restore the sanctity of Sri Harmandir Sahib? Or the slaying of Massa Ranghar by Bhai Sukha Singh and Bhai Mehtab Singh? Or the shaheedi of the Vadday and Chhote Sahibzaade? Or the shaheedi of Bhai Taru Singh ji? Or was it Bhai Subeg Singh and Bhai Shahbaz Singh? Wait, was it the Khalsa mothers who got their babies torn apart and had a garland of their infant limbs put around their necks? Exactly which history are the hated "GurSikhs" distorting, do you care to explain please?As for the Kharkoo Singhs going to Pakistan, I am not too sure about it why they did it. Maybe Bijla Singh can elaborate. And I try my best not to judge a fellow human being as I have seen monnay who are more devoted to Sikhi than most "Amritdharis" like me. But that doesn't reduce the significance of Amrit. Amrit is a gift from Gurujee, and will always remain and be seen as such no matter what excuses people make. see i tried finding that statistic and source before and the reference of who came up with that statistic and were they gather their information from cause theirs a hindu website were ppl are challenging sikhs on the amount of freedom fighters they produced while they named over 100 hindu freedom fighters that were hanged while that statistic you provided claims only 30 non sikhs were hanged, but even though if those numbers are real and true only 4000 ppl died for india's freedom movement, just shows the british had sikhs like slaves, and really only reason india got its freedom was cause of nazi bombings, but till this day we can only name three freedom fighters bhagat singh kartar singh and udham singh. lol hahaah dude bhagat singh was an athiest ill get you the book title in next few days ill give you pages to read were many members of bhagat singh's family talk about how he refused god and died an athiest, bhagat singh refused to take on religion, he followed and used lenins tactics for revolution. But you attack non gursikhs but you don't answer my questions, if you claim a non gursikh is not a sikh then why did guru ji send maharaja ranjit singh a non gursikh to give sikhs an empire and homeland, as well once again name me any gursikh who did any more damage then bhagat singh udham singh and kartar singh to british rule. PS: even if bhagat singh last few days became a gursikh even though their's no evidence just ppl making up story's cause his family claims he died an athiest, cause so called insucure gursikhs like you get insecure and need to make up false smack about bhagat singh being a gursikh, during the time bhagat singh was fighting for freedom he was an athiest. Why don't you name a greater leader since the guru's time then maharaja ranjit singh, who was a non gursikh drank alchole and had many wives, including many members of his army who drank alchole. Read any of his books. And while you at it name any gursikhs who did more damage to british rule then bhagat singh kartar singh and udham singh. (please ive also heard funny stupid stuff like udham singh and kartar singh went gursikh just before they died) I guess its insecure gursikhs who make up this stuff cause it stops them from being able to TRY looking down on non gursikhs cause they feel insecure about themselves) PS IM NOT JUDGING ALL GURSIKHS MOST IN MY EXPERIENCE ARE GREAT PPL WHO INSPIRE PPL TO BETTER THEMSELVES BUT FOR THE FEW SO CALLED GURSIKHS WHO HAVE INSECURITY ISSUES AND JUDGE OTHERS MAKE ME LAUGH AND TRY TO LOOK DOWN ON OTHERS ONLY TO GET MOUTHED OFF.

I think the sun is setting for the ignorant Gursikh brothers amongst us. There is SO MUCH historical evidence that challenges their rewritten version of history that their arguments are a doddle to knock over. what evidence about what part of rewritten history, or are you going to make up a conspiracy theary without a foundation and put it on the table. ONCE AGAIN ANYONE WHO THINKS ONLY A GURSIKH CAN BE A REAL SIKH CAN THEY ANSWER THEN WHY DID GOD SEND A SO CALLED NON SIKH BY THE NAME OF MAHARAJA RANJIT SINGH TO GIVE SIKHS A HOMELAND, BY THE WAY MANY IN HIS ARMY WERE NON GURSIKH SIKHS.

That's right! And they HAVE - Gurbani makes it very clear in Guru Granth Sahib Ji and Dasam Granth Ji. What is 'believing in Sikhi'? If you believe Guru Ji's teachings to be True, then why not follow them - makes no sense. Most of what we know of Maharaja Ranjit Singh is from British writers. How true it is, I don't know, but I do know he accepted and underwent punishment (tankahiya) for any wrong doing he did. This was meant to be a thread about Sikh athletes......... this topic is about sikh athletes but just hate it when a certain group of sikhs judge another group of sikhs, so do you deny sikhs ever had an empire under maharaja ranjit singh lol hahahahaahha do you really deny this cause. Thats most pathetic argument ever. That's right! And they HAVE - Gurbani makes it very clear in Guru Granth Sahib Ji and Dasam Granth Ji. What is 'believing in Sikhi'? If you believe Guru Ji's teachings to be True, then why not follow them - makes no sense. Most of what we know of Maharaja Ranjit Singh is from British writers. How true it is, I don't know, but I do know he accepted and underwent punishment (tankahiya) for any wrong doing he did. This was meant to be a thread about Sikh athletes......... you didn't answer my question either, WHY DID GURU JI SEND A NON GURSIKH AND SO CALLED NON SIKH BY THE NAME OF MAHARAJA RANJIT SINGH TO TO GIVE SIKHS A HOMELAND AND EMPIRE AND NOT SEND A GURSIKH??? Why is it so many gursikhs talk so proudly about bhagat singh udham singh and kartar singh and claim these men to be brave sikhs??? could you give us names of some gursikhs who did more damage to the british then these men

http://www.newkerala.com/oct.php?action=fullnews&id=750 punjab economy hows it going down http://www.tribuneindia.com/2005/20051126/punjab1.htm HOW IS KHALISTAN GOING TO HAPPEN WITH DRUG PROBLEMS LIKE THIS (rather then blaming india govt or hindus and playing oh we sikhs are poor little victims who can't help ourselves read the article and see how it talks about sikh parants spoiling their kids and not giving them responsibility and hiring bhia's to do the work is leading to youth with free time to do drugs. If anyone says that india govt is making youth do drugs im going to laugh and ask does the govt put a gun to their heads and make them get high) Tackling drug menace in the Sikh state of Punjab Addressing a panel discussion after the screening of Reema Anand's documentary on drug addiction "Punjab: The enemy within" at the Chandigarh Press Club, Dua pleaded for saving the energetic Punjabis from decay caused by drugs. Equating the syringes shown in the documentary to missiles that were destroying society, Dua said they were the symbols of death as over 50 per cent of the youth of Punjab had fallen prey to them. "In fact, liquor is the first step to addiction in Punjab," Anand told mediapersons after the screening of the documentary. Drugs were the slow poison that effected the entire family and society and grandparents and parents are today fighting this enemy within in Punjab, she said. The influx of the migratory labour had left the rural Punjabi youth with hardly any work. "With no work, they take to drugs and are ruining their lives," she said. Even the NRI money being pumped into Punjab was responsible for the sorry state of affairs and goes a long way in pushing the youths to drugs, she added. Dr Jatinder Jain, DIG (Bathinda range), regretted that there was no national policy to tackle the drug menace. Criminal neglect on the part of the parents was the basic cause of the children taking to drugs, he claimed. Sharing Dr Jain's sentiments, Dr Deepinder Singh from Ludhiana, regretted that society seemed to have accepted the use of drugs. Awareness, prevention and treatment were essential parts of the any strategy to tackle the menace, he added. Prabhjot Singh, senior journalist, who moderated the discussion, said the connivance of the politicians and the police with the drug mafia had virtually led to the mushrooming of a parallel economy in the state and only a mass movement against drug addiction could save the present and future generations. Meanwhile, the documentary showed heart-rending scenes of the farmers consuming poppy husk and youngsters puncturing their veins with syringes. Premiered at Los Angeles in 2006, the documentary makes a mention of the rural population in Punjab, particularly in Malwa hooking onto "bhukki" (poppy husk) which had become the poor man's addiction and smack and heroin being used by the richer sections of society in urban areas. "Punjabis struggled hard to fight with Central Government in the past but now they are up against a enemy within," the narrator said in the documentary underlining the nexus between politicians-police-drug mafia.

Same can be said about the current indian leadership. Corruption is everywhere in the world in case you haven't noticed. Is it just Khalistanis or everyone living in the west? How about kids of white people who smoke, drink and get pregnant at a very young age? Are ordinary monay punjabis doing any better? I know many rehatvaan Sikhs who are doing much better and doing a good job in raising their families. Bad people are everywhere. Realize this fact. True. Besides our corrupt SGPC and "Kali" leadership isn't bollywood and Indian media also responsible? How about Airtel SMS about Sardar jokes. Some solid evidence would be nice. What do you want to know? Tell me what did Indian plan look like prior to 1947 and what did USA plan look like prior to 1789? Since you are so against it anyway, why do you even bother? The question is: why do people in Punjab want to move to the west? Think about it. On one hand Punjab has the strongest economy and on the other it is facing economic problems? You are simply contradicting yourself. Don't just state the obvious, think about the causes first. What is the reason behind kids dropping out of schools? Are the jobs readily available for new graduates in Punjab? Everything Sikhs do that is messed up is someone else's fault. Sikhs don't do any dumb things themselves it is all everybody else's fault. when i talk about khalistanis kids being messed i wasn't saying only their kids are messed SO DON'T TRY TWISTING MY WORDS AROUND. Secondly what i meant by my example is if khalistanis can't raise their kids how in the world are they going to run a country care to explain??? should i start posting some news articles about what some of the leaders and top men from groups like babbar khalsa and sikh youth federations kids are up to in vancouver, hell these guys kids are kiddnapping and killing eachother over drugs. http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/st...b63&k=68873 a Secondly punjabs economy is at the top right now and its falling down the fast as well thats not a conterdiction but they economy's falling to the ground the fastest as well, the punjab built up a strong economy decades ago so strong that punjab still has the best standard of living but right now we are destroying punjab at a fast rate not the govt or hindus we are, we elect the corrupt politicans, our community doesn't educate their children, and our community are the once out their spoiling their kids giving them money and no responsibility's then everyone wonders how in teh world they got hooked on drugs. Now drug addiction is half the population. http://www.indiaenews.com/politics/20060901/20738.htm http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-126407248.html you tell me what causes the punjab economy to fall and youth to have less knowledge on sikhi and half the youth being hooked on drugs and youth dropping out of school you tell me, and if you blame hindus or govt im going to laugh my <admin-profanity filter activated> off cause i don't want to hear a dumb answer like india's govt puts a gun to these kids heads and makes them drop out of hs or do drugs. When punjab's sikhs are going to become minority's cause we keep getting lazier and bringing in bhia from other states to do the work for cheap wages and then spoil their kids and not give them any responsibility's you got a scenario for disaster. The sikhs are rockign themselves, we are becomming the laughing stock of india and becoming pathetic but its not because of india's govt or hindus its because our community in punjab needs help cause their way of thinking is messed. I mean how much more do we need to read about punjab's high abortion rate, and don't give me a stupid answer saying white ppl have abortions my point of this is why are we having such high abortions such high drug problem yet want a khalistan how will khalistan work if you don't fix drug problems which are getting worste and with more kids dropping out of school and the economy dropping, i mean whose going to live in this country and whose goign to support for it to be created with all the problems currently especially with sikhs soon to be minoritys in punjab. india and america had plans on how they would work when they became independent/country they had a plan, though india fell into hardcore corruption once again a plan india and america had plans on how they would work when they became independent/country they had a plan, though india fell into hardcore corruption once again a plan HOW DOES ANYONE PLAN ON ACHEIVING KHALISTAN, WHY NOT USE THAT TIME AND ENERGY AND MONEY TO FOCUS ON ISSUES IN THE COMMUNITY RATHER THEN WASTE IT ON SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T EVEN HAVE A PLAN.

Main purpose for this topic is i would like to know more sikhs that died for freedom other then kartar singh bhagat singh udham singh.

CAN ANYONE ANSWER WHO THINKS ONLY A GURSIKH CAN BE A REAL SIKH CAN THEY ANSWER THEN WHY DID GOD SEND A SO CALLED NON SIKH BY THE NAME OF MAHARAJA RANJIT SINGH TO GIVE SIKHS A HOMELAND, BY THE WAY MANY IN HIS ARMY WERE NON GURSIKH SIKHS.

you know what only guru ji can decide whose a sikh but what i believe is anyone who believes in sikhi is a sikh if they practise it or don't, and how can you say anyone in this worlds a sikh. How do you know if your a sikh?? i believe anyone who would die for sikhi is for sure a sikh or risk his life for sikhi is a sikh and i believe one of those guys was maharaja ranjit singh and i believe he was a sikh. if anyone believes only a gursikh can be a sikh, then why would god send a so called non sikh by the name of maharaja ranjit singh to lead the sikhs and give the sikhs a homeland and not send a gursikh to do this???

O rly? How many gurdwaras are run properly in this day and age? Not too many....If you ask me. British left India, they didn't get kicked out. And it is unfair to say sikhs were the only ones who took out Mughals and turks. Small hindu groups and British (mughal case) played a role in as well. 1. Punjabi is someone who origins belongs to Punjab. 2. Sikhs weren't the only ones who fought for Punjab. Non-sikhs also have defended Punjab in the past. (Example, muslim punjabis helping out sikhs during anglo-sikh battles). According to you, only amritdhari are sikhs. So this means people like Mahraja Ranjit Singh weren't sikhs, which proves my point about Sikhs weren't the only ones fighting/defending for Punjab in the past. 3. Expecting or assuming sikhs fighting for khalistan now is a pipe dream as well. Punjabis wouldn't fight for a sikh nation because they'll lose their political power. They got more freedom right now than they'll ever get in "khalistan". GOOD POINTS DUDE ANOTHER THING THAT SHOULD BE POINTED OUT TO THIS GUY IS WHO THE HECK IS HE TO JUDGE WHOSE A SIKH OR NOT, THIS GUYS AN <banned word filter activated> AND ALSO FOR SAYING ONLY GURSIKHS FIGHT IF HE'S SO SMART HE SHOULD NAME A BETTER LEADER THEN MAHARAJA RANJIT SINGH SINCE THE GURUS TIME AND DEBATE THIS ONE AND NAME ANYONE WHO DID MORE DAMAGE TO THE BRITISH THEN THE FREEDOM FIGHTERS BHAGAT SINGH UDHAM SINGH AND KARTAR SINGH ALL NON GURSIKHS AND MONA. SOME PPL CLAIM THESE GUYS BECAME GURSIKHS LAST SECOND BUT THEIR'S NO EVIDENCE FOR THIS, AS WELL BHAGAT SINGH OUT OF ANGER WROTE WHY I AM AN ATHIEST, AS WELL BEFORE THEY WERE ARRESTED WHEN THEY WERE OUT GETTING FREEDOM THEY WERE MONA AND NON GURSIKHS.

You talk about india's freedom movement and how sikhs kicked out england, well i can name three sikhs that weren't gursikhs who died fighting the british in the 20th century, bhagat singh(well he was an athiest and wrote a letter), udham singh, kartar singh, could you name me some freedom fighters that were gursikhs??? Im not trying to bad mouth gursikhs or anything but i hate it when gursikhs have such a prejidice view towards non gursikhs, on top of that maharaja ranjit singh was the greatest leader since the gurus time the sikhs ever had, he brought the sikhs together and under his leadership turned the sikhs from pray into hunters and turned the afghans from hunters into pray, before that we were constantly trying to push the mughuls and pushtan afghans who constantly attacked the harmandar sahib out of punjab and under maharaja ranjit singh we went from pushing them out of punjab to chasing the afghan pushtans back into their country and conquering their lands and burning half of peshware down to the ground to return the favour. On top of that ANOTHER REASON I WON'T SUPPORT KHALISTAN, WE HAVE MUSLIMS IN 47 WHO KILLED HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF INOCENT SIKHS AND RAPED THEIR WOMEN ESPECIALLY THE PUNJABI PAKISTANIS WHO'S ANCESTORS WERE PROTECTED BY MAHARAJA RANJIT SINGH AND HIS ARMY WHEN THE AFGHANS WOULD ATTACK THEM AND NOT EVEN SPARE THEM EVEN THOUGH THEY WERE MUSLIMS, YET THE KHALISTANIS WENT TO PAKISTAN THE SAME PAKISTAN THAT KILLED HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF SIKHS AND RAPED THEIR WOMEN THESE KHALISTANIS WENT BEGGING TO THEM. I SAID IT BEFORE RIGHT NOW IN INDIA SIKHS ARE THE LAUGHING STOCK AND KHALISTANIS ARE LAUGHED AT BY HINDUS FOR RUNNING TO THE SAME PAKISTAN THAT RAPED AND KILLED SIKHS. IVE HEARD THE DIRTY <admin-profanity filter activated> PAKISTANIS AND AFGHANS HAVE SAID ABOUT SIKHS SO FOR THE KHALISTANIS TO GO CALL THESE GUYS THEIR BROTHERS OR BEFRIEND THEM HELL I CAN NEVER RESPECT THESE DUMB KHALISTANIS. THEY SHOULD OF GONE TO CHINA AND SAVED ARE DIGNITY RATHER THEN HAVING PAKISTANIS LAUGH AT US SAYING WE WENT BEGGING THEM FOR HELP AND BY GOING TO CHINA IT WOULD OF SAVED US FROM BEING LAUGHED AT BY HINDUS WHO LAUGH AT US CAUSE KHALISTANIS RAN TO PAKISTAN THEN SAME PAKISTAN THAT RAPED AND KILLED SIKHS. OR SOME OTHER COUNTRY.

This has been addressed many times before so stop making a fool out of yourself by writing the same question over and over. Gurdwara Sudhar Lehar is an example of what can be done. Besides, there is no central power to manage Gurdwaras. Sure, there are problems but doesn't mean they cannot be solved. They kicked out Mughals, Turks and the British. Only time will tell how it happens but rule of oppression doesn't last very long. Define "Punjabis". Hindus, illegal bhayeas or "pindus" who care less about Punjab and more about drinking? Or the Punjabi youth who only follow indian movies and do nothing all day? Or are you going to classify them as "Sikh youth" in your next post? Eversince Sikhi started, only Sikhs fought for Punjab. Expecting or assuming "punjabis" fighting for something is only day dreaming. england left because england got bombed by the germans and couldn't afford keeping india enslaved and unfortanatly thousands of sikhs died for england and very few sikhs died for freedom and living like free men, mughuls well the maratha hindus rocked the day lights out of them as well and pushed them out of majority of india and they did come and they did come into the punjab fighting the mughuls, most gurdwaras especially the khalistani gurdwaras are some of the most conteversy gurdwaras, vancouver oh man these khalistanis give the media plenty of stuff to use to bash us with when they fight and cry with eachother. You talk about india's freedom movement and how sikhs kicked out england, well i can name three sikhs that weren't gursikhs who died fighting the british in the 20th century, bhagat singh(well he was an athiest and wrote a letter), udham singh, kartar singh, could you name me some freedom fighters that weren't gursikhs???

Give me one example from the Sikh history when Sikhs as a Panth forced Rehat on non-Sikhs? Or when the Sikh rule was another "Taliban"? Stupid comments are usually written by anti-Khalistanis who neither do anything pro-panthic nor let anyone else do it. All they know how to do is write posts so people think they are sensible. How about just doing something for the community and not worry about Khalistan if you are so against it? Why waste time on something you don't agree with? i went to gurdwaras run by khalistanis and thier camps in vancouver, buddy listen they try forcing sikhi down everyonce throat then cry and moan when someone cuts their hair and mouth them off yet ignore their own kids cutting their hair getting drunk getting high and sleeping around.