tec9

It would work the same way Israel Georgia Kosovo were formed they had nothing but they are still here working away at survival. The reason farmers committee suicide is because they have been manipulated by centre government and are tied in to contracts and been placed under huge debts. This can all change once everyone supports the issue. Everything is there that the country would need. The only problem is the Sikhs are not ready for an independent home land yet. Independence struggle’s take hundreds of years some times. The foundation has been laid we should work towards that goal and contribute what we can. The fight is not all about arms and war. Educate the future generations to come about our history in time all will fall into place. As it has done in the past. When we were down to less than ten thousand Sikhs and gurdwara’s had been blown up( first and second Sikh holocaust) things must have looked bad but true Sikhs fought on and look what we achieved and what we have made to date I believe these are achievements to be proud of and yes there are people who will look to the negative rather that achievements these are the people I believe who are worse than open enemies of the panth.

You are also going to have christens Hindus Muslims non believers you may even have some new religions pop up, will they have same rights as us. Will you be able to drink alcohol in khalsitan? If I am a Sikh can I trim my beard in khalsistan? Or will we live under a dictatorship? I can just feel some of you going mad just at me asking these questions!! Let alone trying to do any of the above in an independent sikh state!!!

Just one quick question for you. Who states the ardass is incomplete? Who added bits onto the ardass? Why did the Guru not add them bits himself? I am sure the Guru had enough knowledge and understanding to know what was he wanted and what he didnt want in an ardass.

We can't change the first part - from Chandi Di Vaar, because it is Gurbani. However we can change other parts, don't forget that Ardas is from the heart, we can ask for whatever we need. If we couldn't change it, how would we ask for what we need? I'm not aware of a standard Ardas given by Guru Ji? It is important to remember our Shaheeds and struggles faced by the panth, which is why they get mentioned during Ardas. Dont you think the Guru could have added shaheeds and many other factor which took place during his life time? I was not on about changing anything in Chandi Di // but the bits we have added on which i do not agree with. If the points added into ardass are that important why did the Guru not add them ( not all but some of them took place in his life time).

The ardass before bits were added to it this must have happened after 1947 due to the fact that gurdwara's are mention in pakistan. How can we normal people change the ardass it was given to us by the Guru i cant remember reading or hearing any where that we can adjust it in anyway!!! or if this is allowed who takes responsibilities into this matter? :gg:

Ratan Singh Bhangu's prachin panth prakash mentions this. I agree that not everything written in historical granths can be trusted but Mr. Bhangu was the grandson of a great martyer Bhai Sahib Mehtab Singh Jee. If sukhnidhan is prepared with full maryada, there is no nasha in it. Thats what chardi kala jatha says and I tend to agree with them. My point into this matter was simple that people try to cover up the past which does not suit them, I’m not saying everyone take cannabis but respect an important part of our history and our methods of war. Why hide stuff like that or try to make out it never happened or people who practice are doing something wrong (as long as they do not abuse).

did anyone attended to see the chardi kala jatha yet? I wanted to ask them why how and where they have learnt that sikhs used marijuana.

We should do the real ardass( which is taken from chundi di //) and not the one that has been changed for us that we all practice. The short and correct ardass should be done that was given to us. Its time we start to practice the correct prayers that have been set out for us not the ones we have changed in recent times by corrupt leaders. Dear Veer, I feel even after Sri Chandi di vaar stanza, the panth has formed a very good ardaas that reminds us of our great unmatchable history by remembering the great punj pyare of 1699, the 4 great Sahibzadas, great shaheed singhs/singhnees. The problem is that in sangat, there are many people who are old, or not physically well and they cant stand for 15 minutes. Then there are many people who really cant focus on such a long ardaas, so deep down they are just thinking "when will this ardaas end?". The ardassiye singh shud take this into consideration and perform a good quick ardaas. These days many gianis try to use new goody goody words(to make their ardaas better than others,lol) in their ardaas, just keep on repeating the same lines again and again. Akal Purakh does not like this, He likes a simple sachi ardaas in plane simple language. Some time back, I went to a smagam and ardaas took 20 minutes. That just spoils the sanctity of the ardaas and u have people who are just phsysically present but mentally absent in the ardas. I was just pointing out that the real ardass given to us is not up for question if it was meant to be longer it would have been made so but the fact remains it wasn’t. I believe we should do the original ardass and all other paaths which have been modified. Over the recent years the truth about the teaching of Sikhi has started to become evident to all sikhs. I hope it is only matter of time before we have all the religious prayers put back into original format. As was intended by Guru Gobind singh Ji I am sure he could have added many of points in the modified ardass but he didn’t. I don’t think we should question. No?

bring bai ranjeet singh back!! Who has done much needed seva for the panth!!

We should do the real ardass( which is taken from chundi di //) and not the one that has been changed for us that we all practice. The short and correct ardass should be done that was given to us. Its time we start to practice the correct prayers that have been set out for us not the ones we have changed in recent times by corrupt leaders.

anyone can get mukti. before sikhs people went to heaven. heaven didnt come into play once sikhi had been established its been there for ever. sometimes one good act can get you mukti. like its stated the end goal for all is the same just the paths we take are not all the same.

way of life, not rules regulations but simply a way of life..........

I agree with above comments 100 percent. People have turned Sikhism into a religion with whole set if rules and regulations set up by people just like us no authority. It’s a way of life try and live it, it’s not about jumping onto a band wagon and just slating people for silly things. If you have taken amrit it does not give you some right to think you are better than them who haven’t because you have lost before you begun your journey. The people who judge you may as well go make donations to fake baba and the RSS because you are doing the job for them. You may as well join the Taliban cause that what your actions are similar too. If this is the sort of place Khalistan is going to be with these people who judge and drive people away then I say no to khalsiatn because I don’t want to move from one dictatorship to another. PS a quick story; Years ago my mate met Bindrawala he used to drink, smoke and have cut hair. In the short time he had sangat he began to stop drinking smoking second time he met bindrawala he kept his hair. Unfortunately he never got to meet the sant a third time but never the less he became a sikh who does lot of seva in the community. Think if bindrawala was a judgemental person my mate would be a drunk today. Think before you shoot off your mouths.

So true, the Kara is not an optional extra. This judgement is wrong wearing panj kakkar is a must for those who are amritdhari. She is not amridhari and has cut her hair so there was no compulsion for her to wear a kara. wjkk wjkf so wat is she was not an amritdhari girl. her family is not amritdhari, but they still should wear a kara. if we will preach like this to every non amritdhari that you are not an amritdhari then you can not fight for your religious rights, then i am afraid there will be a few of us left, coz in this practical world, the population of non amritdhari sikhs are way more than amritdhari sikh. infact, we should encourage them to wear as many K's as possible, and think positive that today guru ji has blessed him/her with kara, 2moro he will do the kirpa and give him kess daat and one day amrit di daat. today a non amritdhari was targeted for wearing kara, 2moro this could happen to an amritdhari... and then how about if a non amritdhari says, leave it man, kara was not compulsory for me, so why should i bother and fight for the kara for an amritdhari sikh. we should not be saying that you are not amritdhari so you can cut your kess or take ur kara off..... koi na, ki farkk penaa...!!! there are many people who keep all 5 K's but not yet amritdhari... they are practicing and one day guru ji will give them amrit di daat. so on this ground, we cant say that that you are not an amritdhari so you cant keep 5 K's.... veer ji, think positive. DONT FORCE OTHERS- ENCOURAGE & EDUCATE THEM bhul chuk maaf karni. wjkk wjkf good post above!! shame we have so many narrow minded people within sikhism these days who drive people away. these people do not represent sikhi they have no right to judge others. shame on you!! you know who you are!!

santa is himself with the indian goverment of he starts pointing fingers at others he would have come into a big problem himself.

my 2p worth, that is silly posting!! thats how we make way for fake baba when you put people off. discusting!!

well i think once the oil has run out or it becomes too expensive we wont care about any muslim countries or what they want. already the 'big powers' are looking for new fuel sources once these arrive i dont think we going to care about iraq and stuff. i dont really care about these countries as they was were the mogul rulers came from! what goes around comes around.

take the name from any hukamnama, they available on the internet you have choice of many gurdwara around the world!!

Such a serious topic and you find it amusing!! I don’t think discussion the origin of the gurus bana is funny it will help people understand a bit more of our history.

I’m afraid I have to going to have to disagree there as in 2007 they displayed his (parmers) picture on a FLOAT along side the assassins of Indira Gandhi. At nagar kirtan both babber khalsa soldiers and ISYF soldiers who have been martyred were also honoured as was the Khalistani flag raised. Also the organisers clearly indicated that they intended to display more pictures of martyrs than last year, at 2008 this year, and also regretted that if any one was not happy with Parmer being shown as a hero they had little option but to stay away. So these are the people who organise this event!! They have to work hand in hand with the authorities and have stated they will continue to do commemorate heroes of khalistan as long as it does not become unlawful and is with in the communities legal parameters. From now on Parmer will be hailed as a hero at every year’s nagar kirtan. Feel free to write to the organisers and the community who turn out to as a whole in support if you are not happy. It’s not federation vala but both babber khalsa and federation together. Thank you.

dont know to be honest!!

I don’t know what that got to do with Sikhism directly, more of a Muslim propaganda video to subdue all moderate thinkers with out the extremists putting them off in my opinion. Don’t you agree cool water?

who says?

Bob I had just begun to suspect you might have some intelligence and thought pattern for your self, how ever your last comment has left me in some doubt. Hush you noise makes you sound like one of them gangsta singhs from previous treads lol. Come back with a response of some worth/intelligence-or at least one that is viable- please if you can’t come up with one alone ask for assistance from a nephew or niece Spaminder you are of course in titled to your opinion if you feel these people have acted wrongly then that is your choice, I respect them as soldiers in a war. They did more than I have. However I can not agree with you forming your opinion on the basis of one book. I will pointy out that people who speak out against rait, parmer are not many or may be it is that I have not come against them before. They did however make a float in Canada- at a religious event-in Parmers honour recently and from what I can gather many people turn up in support. Never seen one against him ever- an event or float of anything more than words but in support well you know your self.