Pyara

The disorder effecting Punjabi/Asian areas in London is not hitting the mainstream news! Below are some updates on the aftermath of the East London raula last night. Ilford http://www.london24.com/news/crime/update_looters_strike_ilford_lane_jewellers_and_stores_1_988660 East Ham http://www.london24.com/news/business/damage_on_the_streets_of_newham_in_copy_cat_attacks_1_988327 Barking http://www.london24.com/news/crime/barking_mp_says_residents_have_been_left_terrified_1_988605

I am only relaying the info I was told this morning. Apologies in advance if anything has been missed. Someone who was actually doing Security sewa in East London/Ilford may have more details to last nights events. Besides reports of missles being thrown at Barking Gurdwara earlier in the evening the rest of the East London / Ilford Gurdwaras appeared to safe through the night. There was some tension around 12am when cars full of black/mixed race youth were continually circling a perimeter of Barking and they passed the Gurdwara several times. The presence of Singhs was then largely increased at Barking Gurdwara which acted as a strong deterent for any potential opportunist attacks. There was some disorder earlier in the evening around the surrounding area of Seven Kings Gurdwara and Karamsar Gurdwara, some shops were rushed. Again a visible presence of Singhs around the Gurdwaras also acted as a deterent for any potential opportunist attack.

To be honest I was referring more to the quality of Punjabi speaking presenters down South who could start appearing on the live shows from the London studio, not really from an accent perspective but from the kind of Panthic agendas I fear some of the Londoners have. Many of the "fallen" panthic parcharak are based down south and whilst the distance to the Birmingham studio probably acted as a deterrent, the Midlands sangat were able to influence Sikh Channel into ensuring the odd bodds didn’t get studio time. It will be interesting to see if the London studio becomes a platform for these parcharaks.

In my humble opinion, Sikh Channel are on a slippery slope with the London studio. Being a Londoner myself, I can honestly say that the quality of London parcharaks is at a reduced level to the Midlands. You’re potentially looking at more odd personalities coming on the live shows in London and certainly the quality of programming on the Sikh Channel has got shoddier over the last few weeks since the opening of the London studio! I can’t think of anything I regularly watch on the Sikh Channel anymore. It’s pretty dismal stuff being aired (except for the live diwans). Bring back Kam Singh and the SYP show!!!!

Who really cares about the techincal "caste" specifics of the alcohol consumption? The activities are anti Sikh just like smoking is. And when Prabhandik committees promote alcohol, meat and parties on Gurdwara properties then they are highly unlikely to implement any controls on smoking. RST Birmingham is old news anyway and with Maharaj's Kirpa the Committee have taken the brave step of stopping the Gurdwara hall being used for booze parties. One can accuse you of the ignorance and hypocrisy as you're the one clearly stirring the caste cauldron here!

http://prableen.origo.no/ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/norway/8656963/Norway-shooting-politician-describes-witnessing-Utoya-massacre-on-her-blog.html http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3712387/Massacre-in-Norway-Girl-survivors-scene-from-hell.html http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jul/25/eyewitness-account-utoya-shooting

Although there's some progressive thinking with some of the other activities taking place, the Committee have fallen in the typical trap of the "Conference and Banqueting Facilities" allowing meat and sharab. Again the meat and sharab over ride any other sewa. http://www.bhatsinghsabha.com/8.html ABOUT US Bhat Singh Sabha is a dynamic not-for-profit company (Company Reg. 4630683) and registered charity (Charity Reg .1099336) formed in 2003 by the Guru Nanak Gurdwara (a Sikh faith Community) to deliver much needed sustainable services in the Sparkbrook Ward of Birmingham. Our Director's are trusted members of the community who have been specifically chosen to harness their development and financial skills in running large scale business and community projects. We purchased 256 Moseley Road, Highgate, a disused former motor components industrial unit and adjoining land and converted it into a major Community Resource Centre. Our venue is a focal point and communication Centre with safe secure parking for up to 100 vehicles including coach parking and disable bays. The Bhat Singh Sabha project was made possible via a co-financed partnership between Bhat Singh Sabha , European Regional Development Funding and European Social Funding. (See Partners) Working with our strategic partners including European Government Office West Midlands, Birmingham City Council, Local Colleges, Early Years Learning, Birmingham Children's Centres, Job Centre Plus, National Health Primary Care Trust, our Centre now offers the following services: A 500 capacity Conference and Banqueting suite with full catering facility. For further details see Services. A 50 placement full time day care Nursery together with Crèche and Childcare facilities, together with Day Care Nursery Training for up to 12 young persons per year. Education, Training & Consultation Rooms, especially focusing on access to employment, diversity training for local residents and employers alike. Advice Centre advising on family matters, parenting, together with programmes surrounding diet and health including Diabetes, Hypertension and Heart disease. ICT Suite offering accredited computer based training for the wider community including CED residents.JMBLearning@BhatSinghSabha.Com Fully serviced Managed office space (supporting local not-for-profit organisations) including broadband facilities.

Please clear some facts please. After such indisputable video evidence of the Granthi pouring "pegs", is this Granthi still allowed to do sewa at Gravesend Gurdwara? If so, then this is absolutely disgraceful. It's obvious that the video of him openly drinking in his kachera was taken after he had already been confronted in the Gurdwara by the Sangat for smelling of alcohol (as he states himself in the video). Yet if he had any remorse, the content of his discussion about what happened would show some regrets but NO, the pathetic person is getting drunk again! So not only was he caught drunk, the joker carries on drinking. What kind of ludicrous state are we in where a Granthi drinks, does sermons in our Gurdwara and there are people coming on this forum saying that the way in which this fraudster was confronted was "unethical"! Come on guys, start seeing things in black and white.

There is no denying that we are all overlaid in some form of hypocrisy but your attack feels more like a blanket condemnation. You have just made generalisations based on your own naive resentments towards regards Sant Jarnail Singh Ji, Gurmat Maryada, Akal Takht, Castes etc and dressed it up as an "evaluation" of the Panth. Brother, please share your ucha sucha jeevan with us? How is your amrit vela going nowadays? Any problems with any arth of Gurbani? How's your santhiya going? How's your shaster training going?

A strong sign of the "Sikh" reputation for excessive binge drinking is the common term Patiala Peg which is a references for the serving of alcohol double than the normal serving, or unusually very large. This term is understood in most parts of India and with the more cultured White Brits. The main reason stems to the opulent and hedonistic lifestyle of one of the maharajas of Patiala - Maharaja Bhupinder Singh, who was a heavy drinker. We see very little proactive steps within our prabhandak establishment to counter this reputation, with anti-alcohol parchaar on Gurdwara stages usually watered down or tightly controlled by the prabhandaks. In the last 30 years I have personally not seen any projects directly funded or set up by any Gurdwara committee to deal with alcohol abuse in the Sikh Community. What I have regretfully seen is the Golak money being used to fund halls which encourage the consumption of alcohol!

Some more references to Alcohol abuse in the Sikh Community. http://www.bmj.com/c...543/682.extract The British Medical Journal reports: "34% of Irish men drink above the weekly recommended limit of 21 units of alcohol, compared with 29% of the general Irish population and 27% of the general British population. A similar problem exists in south Asian (Sikh) male migrants to the UK, where problem drinking is higher than in the Sikh population in South Asia and similar to that of the UK general population." http://www.emphasisn...khCommunity.pdf "Numerous studies have shown that Sikh men are more likely to drink alcohol, consume alcohol more frequently and in greater amounts than any other South Asian group." http://alcalc.oxford...28/1/1.abstract "Consumption is higher in Sikhs than in Hindus or Muslims, and heavy spirit drinking appears to be especially common among Sikh men. Alcohol-related psychiatric admission rates for South Asians have risen since 1971, and appear to be especially high in Sikh men. The high alcohol-related morbidity rates in this group are a priority for further research and efforts at prevention." http://onlinelibrary...55958258.d01t01 "Sikhs were most likely to be regular drinkers followed by whites and Hindus." "Among regular drinkers Sikhs had higher average Alcohol Problem Scale Scores than did white men or Hindus." http://www.alcoholle...aire_Turner.pdf "Sikh girls drinking frequently increased in the 1990s" "Sikh men, have high prevalence of alcohol-related liver damage and liver cirrhosis"

This may be an old article but it's extremely relevant to the Sikh community today. Just look around at our own extended families and we witness the extreme binge drinking which occurs on weekends, weddings, family functions. Quote from the article "It seems that Sikhs are particularly susceptibility to alcoholism. Sikh men tend to drink more spirits than beer. Spirits are stronger than other alcohols and cause more damage. Drinking culture is common in Sikh population in the UK, possible due to the acceptance of drinking in working men's culture and military culture. Many Sikh families migrated here during the Second World War when they were recruited to fight in the army." Till this day, I see very little responsible action from our Parbhandak committees to work towards this plague which is destroying the character of our community. Yet Prabhandaks from Gurdwaras such as Ramgharia Coventry, Ramgharia Leeds, Ramgharia Leicester, Ramgharia Small Heath, Bhat Singh Sabha Birmingham, Dudley Gurdwara, Swindon Gurdwara, Ipswich Gurdwara, Huddersfield Gurdwara to name just a few go in the complete opposite direction and set up community centres promoting the consumption of alcohol in the Sikh Community. It's absolutely disgraceful that there is no investment in the dangers of "patit-pauna" yet plenty of investment in creating "patit pauna" by these Committees! http://www.desiblitz...d-alcohol-abuse Brit-Asian men and Alcohol abuse British Asian men, especially of Indian origin, are more susceptible to alcohol-related problems than white British males, according to a scientific study. Alcohol use and alcoholism is on the rise in South Asian populations. Alcohol related harm in Asians is costing the NHS and Social Services too much. For every 100 white men dying from alcohol related causes there are 160 Asian men dying. These are some of the facts published in a report in the British Medical Journal. Dr Gurpreet Pannu, author of the study and consultant psychiatrist, says that there are disproportionately high numbers of Indian men being admitted with alcohol related problems. There has always been alcohol use in Asian populations but the problem was not recognised. This study highlights the rise in alcohol use in Asian population. The figures are out there now and the Government has to act on these figures. Dr Pannu adds that we know that there is a high incidence of alcohol use but we don't know what is underlying this rise. Dr Pannu explains that alcohol use and celebration of drinks culture has become more accepted in Asian populations and now equals the rise in British white populations. Both first generation and second generation have high intake of alcohol. This could reflect a rise in alcohol levels in the British white population as a whole. Majority of alcohol admissions are with mental health problem -this is only one aspect. Social harm is also common domestic violence, self harm and road traffic accidents. It is a myth that Indians drink less. Alcohol use in Indians now equal that of white populations. Drinks culture has become increasingly acceptable in Indian populations. However there is an equally large abstinence culture, with many stating religion as a reason for not drinking. Drinking is not associated with 'being social' in Asian communities. High alcohol consumption and drunken behaviour is frowned upon. Asians have restraints on behaviour from their close knit, often conservative community. Overall South Asian populations show a low level of alcohol consumption. However, there is a rise in consumption in British Indian men. Men born in India have lower rates of drinking than white men, however, the rate of admission with alcoholism is higher for Asian men in the UK. Hospital admissions for alcohol related conditions among Asians are rising. A Southall psychiatric hospital admitted more Asian patients for alcohol dependency than white patients. Almost double the number of Asians were admitted. Southall, which has a large South Asian population, have high levels of alcoholism in Asians a trend seen around the country. Most of these patients are Sikh men It seems that Sikhs are particularly susceptibility to alcoholism. Sikh men tend to drink more spirits than beer. Spirits are stronger than other alcohols and cause more damage. Drinking culture is common in Sikh population in the UK, possible due to the acceptance of drinking in working men's culture and military culture. Many Sikh families migrated here during the Second World War when they were recruited to fight in the army. Further studies have found that Asian heavy drinking lasts 7.4 years causing pain and suffering in Asian families. Alcoholism can break apart a family as the man becomes more and more dependent on drinking. Asians consume 383 grams of alcohol on average. The alcoholic is unable to work or bring home an income to support their families. Alcohol abuse is often associated with anti social behaviour and domestic violence. Children grow up without the support of a parent. The cost of alcoholism in social terms is high. The next step is to promote knowledge of the problem. Now that the Asian population is aware of the problem they are doing something about it. For example, there is a campaign in Sikh Gurudwaras in Southall to raise awareness of the issue of binge drinking. Indian men in the UK are more susceptible to the effects of alcohol use than their white counterpart. There are biological and cultural reasons for Asian vulnerability to the risk of alcohol. The immigrant experience contributes to the drinking habit. Immigrants experience isolation, cultural alienation, poverty and deprivation. This is a difficult experience for many to cope with and they resort to drinking to solve their problems. Alcoholism tends to hit those who don't have a supportive network and find it difficult to confide in people. Alcohol use and ethnicity surveys show a low level of uptake of supportive services among Asians. More effective outreach services need to be provided. These need to be culturally sensitive to Asians to encourage more people going through this experience alone to seek help. A significant portion of the Asian population has become victims of alcohol. Our culture is not one that encourages drinking. It's those who are going through troubled times alone who are most vulnerable. We need to reach out to these people and let then know that help is available.

If you don't like your surroundings or your own Singhs, then get out of that bed and make a difference. This continuous self-loathing some Sikhs seem to have is not a good thing to carry on. Your comments are ignorant because you're generalising and writing based on your own prejudices . "The optimist sees the rose and not its thorns; the pessimist stares at the thorns, oblivious to the rose."

I see that some of the big kirtanyia have bookings at the above Gurdwara in the coming weeks. Can anyone confirm if the Coventry Gurdwara is any different from the Baba Wadhbag Singh Trust Greenford? The BWST in Greenford openly promote: Placement of idols in Gurdwara Promote visits to various Mandhirs with a variety of offerings on a particular day of the week. Promote spilling of daal into rivers Promote praying to dead family members Promote wearing of taviths and silver to ward away black magic and spirits Perform exorcisms at a cost of £3000. Is the Coventry Gurdwara in line with panthic maryada or an off-shoot of the same group in Greenford?

Unless you have information in advance that Nihal's show is picking up a Sikh topic I can't see how you can get this regular phone in slot Jasminder seems to get. Jasminder is either called up by BBC AN on the day and invited to call in or he knows a reseacher inside. Jasminder claims to be everywhere and even said he was at Dudley and Grays Morcha which he mentioned on the last Nihal show on the Dudley issue. If that is the case, then many of us may probably know who he is.

The Sikh discussion part of the show started from 2 pm. Focused on Delhi 1984 and Jarnail Singh's book "I Accuse". I only heard bits of the show as I was at work but - Jarnail Singh journalist was a guest and got to make some strong points -the show was presented by a stand in (Naresh Suri) and not Nihal (the guy had more of a general awareness of issues relating to the sub-continent than Nihal the coconut) - the stirrer Jasminder managed to call in as usual and put his usual nasty comments forward (I'm sure he's contacted by BBC AN everytime there's a Sikh issue being discussed). Overall not a bad discussion, probably needed more articulate English speakers to complement Jarnail Singh's comments however a 1 hour discussion only really scratches the surface.

Apologies if this is slightly off-topic. The Tamil groups in East London led a strong local campaign of publicity prior to the airing of this Channel 4 documentary with leaflet drops to houses targeted at non-Tamils to watch the documentary. An excellent way of raising the profile of the issue. I will scan the leaflet I got through my letterbox on Sunday highlighting the atrocities by the Sri Lankan Gov't on Tamils whilst also urging people to watch the show. Door to door leaflet drops are a simple but effective way of raising the profile of an issue amongst the wider community. However back to specific topic, as Sarbha Punjab has pointed out there needs to be a mass exercise of delving into media archives to recover footage relating to Delhi 84 Galucara. Don't forget the Global media would have been present in Delhi during the few days covering Indira Ghandi's funeral, so there must be footage out there that's either been surpressed or forgotten about. Most TV media companies archive aired footage, however this policy will vary and it's the un-aired footage that we are probably after. We can fund a reasearcher or commission some kind of reputable independent documentary-media company?

Please add 1001 jaaps. Thanks modnote: Waheguru Waheguru Guru Pyaare Jeo, jaaps added! :happy:

Ok. Perhaps my post seemed more harsh and critical then it was intended to be. Point taken!

This is a really valid point. It's important that this event is not seen as a "mela" as such. You can't help but feel some of us have started coming with the wrong mindset to this annual event. Some of our Sikh attendees from out of town felt it more important to climb on the lions at Traflagar Square and have their pictures taken like tourists whilst a group of our kids brought a football to the rally to kick around the side of Trafalagar square which lead to some complaints from the Police about "public safety". We can't afford to let the profile of the event be demeaned by our usual punjabi pendupauna. Whilst we can give constructive feedback to the organisers, each of us has a large part to play in the collective behaviour and conduct of our own sangat. Perhaps a brief needs to be communicated to the sangat in advance (the coach for instance) to remind us why were are gathering in London and the emotion we are trying to portray. Also regarding the banners and placards, a lot of the placard sewa was taken on by Guru Har Rai Sahib Gurdwara and Guru Nanak Gurdwara West Brom. More and more Guru ghars/individuals need to take the innovative step to produce placards and banners for distribution in the sangat, particularly as the event turnout seems to be getting larger.

Watch SANGAT TV (sky 847) live today at 7pm (GMT). GNSS Dudley have been given the opportunity to come and speak live on TV and explain their continuous defiance of Sikh Maryada by allowing meat, alcohol and parties.

Mr Medare, What us "Liberal" to you? Liberation is awakening from the deep sleep of ignorance. Liberation results in a shift where the same mind that used to generate poison before, now generates Amrit.

Mr Medare, What is wrong now was also wrong 30 years ago! A wise man with a high IQ once said "The error of the past is the success and wisdom of the future". Many of the lessons we learn, we learn from our own past mistakes and failures.

The attitude of the Committee is Disgraceful. But the fact of the matter is that without people willing to book parties in the Sikh Cultural Centre the Committee won't be able to carry out the beadbi they so desire. Even the committee member Darshan Atwal moved his own family party from the Sikh Cultural Centre to another hall in Wolverhampton, yet the committee seem to have manipulated another family to be a "sacrificial lamb" in this whole beadbi fiasco. It's not an easy call to make to cancel a protest, but I think there was a consensus with the Midlands prabhandik elders and other Jathebhandiys who felt that if a protest outside a Gurdwara could be avoided then it would be better for the profile and reputation of the Sikh Community. Not that GNSS Dudley really care about Sikh reputation, but the protest would have attracted large interest from non-Sikh media too. There is no change on the stand against the anti-Sikh activities of the GNSS Dudley committee and I know that the Sangat are ever ready to come down in the thousands as soon as this Committee try to allow another party on the Gurdwara property. If they do allow a party and the Sangat are unaware then I suppose the UK Sikh Community could peacefully do "KABZAA" of the Guru Ghar and evict the Committee.

I personally believe the onus falls entirely on the Gurdwara Management committee. The family are just being used as a pawn in the game of ego being played GNSS Dudley Committee and it's newly created subsidiary Committees. The GNSS Dudley Committee have a moral obligation to adhere to Gurmat and the Akal Takht Sandesh 2006. The presence of a protest is not focused on ruining a family's party, but to show a massive presence of united Sangat to not just GNSS Dudley Committee but all Gurdwara Committees who openly abuse the institute of the Gurdwara, allowing meat, sharab and parties in the Gurdwara halls. The Gurdwara Committees like GNSS Dudley just need to take ownership of the sacrilege they are committing and show the sangat they are going to take the real corrective action of stopping meat sharab parties in the hall. Re-naming, re-structuring, re-designing the Gurdwara Community Centre are simply superficial cover-ups of the beadbi!